Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
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Originally Posted by
badr_hari
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
I'd like to see Martinez against Abraham at 160.
Yeah, and not necessarily Abraham. I would like to see Martinez fight a TRUE MIDDLEWEIGHT at 160 before talking about 168.
I agree with you. That is why I've been saying Felix Sturm in a unification fight. I don't see how anyone could have a problem with that fight, even Bilbo.
A Felix Sturm fight would actually be even more competitive and meaningful than Abraham. Or what about fighting a lion like Golovkin. That's what i want to see from Martinez, fighting and beating top middleweights, not light middleweights and welterweights like in recent times. You are THE MAN in a division when you clean it up, own it, NOT when people think you COULD POSSIBLY own them all.
Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
If you were Martinez would you want to fight Andre Ward and possibly lose or fight a Pacquiao or Mayweather two small welterweights with more money and recognition?
I can't blame him, I would rather beat up 2 small midgets with money and recognition and that I probably weigh more than 25 pounds on fight night then fight a beast like Ward.
Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
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Originally Posted by
badr_hari
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
I'd like to see Martinez against Abraham at 160.
Yeah, and not necessarily Abraham. I would like to see Martinez fight a TRUE MIDDLEWEIGHT at 160 before talking about 168.
I agree with you. That is why I've been saying Felix Sturm in a unification fight. I don't see how anyone could have a problem with that fight, even Bilbo.
Sturm is one of the least ambitious champions in history. No way he fights Martinez when he can live off a diet of journeymen. I'm not ever sure Sturm would have the balls to face Daniel Geale.
Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
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Originally Posted by
Memphis
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
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Originally Posted by
Memphis
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
He's a coward. Bernard went from 160 to 175 so why can't Martinez go from 154 to 168 if he's the p4p number 2 fighter in the world?
Since when does P4P ranking have any bearing on someones ability to move up in weight?
If Martinez is unable to beat a 46 year old grandad at 170 lbs he's overated.
Besides, all the best fighters have been able to move through multiple divisions. The only exceptions are heavyweights obviously, and one or two really tiny guys.
Ray Robinson went from 147 to 175, why can't Martinez go from 154 to 170?
Im not sure what kind of response is more fitting but Im going to go with thats bollocks ;D
How many divisions does it need to be to qualify as one of the best? I bet its more than two ;D
There's so many divisions these days that it's standard to move through them.
If you disagree with me then just name me some fighters in the last 15 years who are considered great, instant Hall of Famers that were unable or unwilling to go through more than two weight classes?
Outside of the heavyweights and really small straweights you won't find many at all.
Hopkins. He's fought at middle and lightheavy. That's just 2.
Martinez started at welter, then went to lightmiddle, then middle. That's 3.
So Martinez owns Hopkins in divisions fought in too. Fact.
I so hope these two fight. You're really turning me off Martinez you know...
lol - It's not mine or Martinez fault that he meets all your criteria for P4P and greatness.
Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
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Originally Posted by
Memphis
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
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Originally Posted by
Memphis
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
He's a coward. Bernard went from 160 to 175 so why can't Martinez go from 154 to 168 if he's the p4p number 2 fighter in the world?
Since when does P4P ranking have any bearing on someones ability to move up in weight?
If Martinez is unable to beat a 46 year old grandad at 170 lbs he's overated.
Besides, all the best fighters have been able to move through multiple divisions. The only exceptions are heavyweights obviously, and one or two really tiny guys.
Ray Robinson went from 147 to 175, why can't Martinez go from 154 to 170?
Im not sure what kind of response is more fitting but Im going to go with thats bollocks ;D
How many divisions does it need to be to qualify as one of the best? I bet its more than two ;D
There's so many divisions these days that it's standard to move through them.
If you disagree with me then just name me some fighters in the last 15 years who are considered great, instant Hall of Famers that were unable or unwilling to go through more than two weight classes?
Outside of the heavyweights and really small straweights you won't find many at all.
Hopkins. He's fought at middle and lightheavy. That's just 2.
Martinez started at welter, then went to lightmiddle, then middle. That's 3.
So Martinez owns Hopkins in divisions fought in too. Fact.
I so hope these two fight. You're really turning me off Martinez you know...
lol - It's not mine or Martinez fault that he meets all your criteria for P4P and greatness.
He's p4p I'll give you that. But he hasn't proven himself great yet.
Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
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Originally Posted by
badr_hari
I would like to see Martinez fight a TRUE MIDDLEWEIGHT at 160 before talking about 168.
I agree with you. That is why I've been saying Felix Sturm in a unification fight. I don't see how anyone could have a problem with that fight, even Bilbo.
Sturm is one of the least ambitious champions in history.
Well, that could be the case, but I was agreeing with badr_hari in that I want to see him unify or fight another true middleweight. Abraham said he isn't going back to 160 by the way, even though it is retarded because he's much too small to be effective at 168. Gennady Golovkin would be a hell of a fight in about one year. He has Ndou coming up and then I'm pretty sure he is fighting N'Jam, and then Sturm. If he comes through unscathed, a fight with Martinez would be great.
Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
I don't understand all this hate for Martinez, i thought everyone liked him:confused: It would be nice for him to clean up the division, but are there any worthy opponents outside of Strum? I don't see Strum leaving Germany to fight him, and i don't expect Martinez who is the bigger name to go to Germany. Maybe his only choice is to clean up the division while the SS is finishing up. So who does he fight at 160, Zbik, Pirog, Andy Lee? Let's be honest the way the SS has gone it's probably going to be a year before he gets a fight with the winner. Assuming it's Ward-Froch late this year, then the winner of that fighting Bute. Were talking about mid 2012 before he would get a fight with them. I understand as fans we would like for him to clean up the division, but i see his side also. He's trying to make a money fight happen now, instead of waiting around for Froch, Ward, Bute etc.
Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
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Originally Posted by
MMASUX
I don't understand all this hate for Martinez, i thought everyone liked him:confused: It would be nice for him to clean up the division, but are there any worthy opponents outside of Strum? I don't see Strum leaving Germany to fight him, and i don't expect Martinez who is the bigger name to go to Germany. Maybe his only choice is to clean up the division while the SS is finishing up. So who does he fight at 160, Zbik, Pirog, Andy Lee? Let's be honest the way the SS has gone it's probably going to be a year before he gets a fight with the winner. Assuming it's Ward-Froch late this year, then the winner of that fighting Bute. Were talking about mid 2012 before he would get a fight with them. I understand as fans we would like for him to clean up the division, but i see his side also. He's trying to make a money fight happen now, instead of waiting around for Froch, Ward, Bute etc.
It's just Bilbo, the hobbit, who hates the the guy who provided us with the KO of the last year, and is never in an unentertaining scrap.
Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
Martinez is ok. Everybody wants to fight little guys for big money, just look at Bernard vs Oscar.
Anyway, everybody just needs to focus their hatred on Lucian Bute.
Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
unlike Pacquiao who jumped up in divisions that were only 2 or 3 lbs apart Martinez would be jumping up a full 8 lbs from one division to the other, he Martinez can still fight Abraham, Bute, Ward, Kessler, Froch, and Johnson, all he has to do is demand it be at 163 lbs. like Manny does ;D it's that simple
Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MMASUX
I don't understand all this hate for Martinez, i thought everyone liked him:confused: It would be nice for him to clean up the division, but are there any worthy opponents outside of Strum? I don't see Strum leaving Germany to fight him, and i don't expect Martinez who is the bigger name to go to Germany. Maybe his only choice is to clean up the division while the SS is finishing up. So who does he fight at 160, Zbik, Pirog, Andy Lee? Let's be honest the way the SS has gone it's probably going to be a year before he gets a fight with the winner. Assuming it's Ward-Froch late this year, then the winner of that fighting Bute. Were talking about mid 2012 before he would get a fight with them. I understand as fans we would like for him to clean up the division, but i see his side also. He's trying to make a money fight happen now, instead of waiting around for Froch, Ward, Bute etc.
It's just Bilbo, the hobbit, who hates the the guy who provided us with the KO of the last year, and is never in an unentertaining scrap.
Fenster has made me hate him.
Some boxers get so much man love so soon from the boxing establishment and fans on here that I call bullshit when I see it.
When Christian Mijares suddenly got elevated into the p4p and people on here were saying his reign would last for years, only the hobbit spoke up and said 'Hang on just a minute, there is no way this guy is p4p yet based on his acomplishments' 'Ah but's it's skills and talents' they said. And what happened next? Wrecked by Darchinyan and then lost twice to a nobody, where is he now? How silly it was to stick him right up in the p4p elechons.
Now they have done the same with Giovani Segura, again, for what? Beating a 36 year old tiny man with zero punching power who himself was overated because he was so small?
A couple fights down the road Segura will take on some mighty 9-1-1 warrior from a South American jungle and lose a lopsided decision and a new star will be born.
It's ridiculous. The same with Pongolcrap Wonglecrap. Who has he fought to be above Bernard in the Ring rankings?
It's like having Henry Maske in the top 5 p4p after all he went undefeated for years too. Sturm hasn't lost in well over 10 fights and beat a fighter called Hearns. He must be as deserving as Pongolcrap.
I don't begrude Martinez his p4p status, he has earned it. But the idea that he has acomplished more than B Hop just grates me, and Fenster has been grating me, thus I am now officially a hater.
It's good to be a hater of some fighters. It creates interest and excitement when they get exposed. Martinez, Bute, Donaire. It will happen...mark my words.
Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
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Originally Posted by
MMASUX
I don't understand all this hate for Martinez, i thought everyone liked him:confused: It would be nice for him to clean up the division, but are there any worthy opponents outside of Strum? I don't see Strum leaving Germany to fight him, and i don't expect Martinez who is the bigger name to go to Germany. Maybe his only choice is to clean up the division while the SS is finishing up. So who does he fight at 160, Zbik, Pirog, Andy Lee? Let's be honest the way the SS has gone it's probably going to be a year before he gets a fight with the winner. Assuming it's Ward-Froch late this year, then the winner of that fighting Bute. Were talking about mid 2012 before he would get a fight with them. I understand as fans we would like for him to clean up the division, but i see his side also. He's trying to make a money fight happen now, instead of waiting around for Froch, Ward, Bute etc.
It's just Bilbo, the hobbit, who hates the the guy who provided us with the KO of the last year, and is never in an unentertaining scrap.
Fenster has made me hate him.
Some boxers get so much man love so soon from the boxing establishment and fans on here that I call bullshit when I see it.
When Christian Mijares suddenly got elevated into the p4p and people on here were saying his reign would last for years, only the hobbit spoke up and said 'Hang on just a minute, there is no way this guy is p4p yet based on his acomplishments' 'Ah but's it's skills and talents' they said. And what happened next? Wrecked by Darchinyan and then lost twice to a nobody, where is he now? How silly it was to stick him right up in the p4p elechons.
Now they have done the same with Giovani Segura, again, for what? Beating a 36 year old tiny man with zero punching power who himself was overated because he was so small?
A couple fights down the road Segura will take on some mighty 9-1-1 warrior from a South American jungle and lose a lopsided decision and a new star will be born.
It's ridiculous. The same with Pongolcrap Wonglecrap. Who has he fought to be above Bernard in the Ring rankings?
It's like having Henry Maske in the top 5 p4p after all he went undefeated for years too. Sturm hasn't lost in well over 10 fights and beat a fighter called Hearns. He must be as deserving as Pongolcrap.
I don't begrude Martinez his p4p status, he has earned it. But the idea that he has acomplished more than B Hop just grates me, and Fenster has been grating me, thus I am now officially a hater.
It's good to be a hater of some fighters. It creates interest and excitement when they get exposed. Martinez, Bute, Donaire. It will happen...mark my words.
I hear ya Bilbo, and i agree no way in hell has he accomplished more than B-hop. The problem is that he's really good in a division that is bad. Maybe he can get a fight with Kessler or Dirrell at 168 while Froch, Ward, Bute battle it out. I think Martinez-Kessler would be a really good fight.
Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MMASUX
I hear ya Bilbo, and i agree no way in hell has he accomplished more than B-hop. The problem is that he's really good in a division that is bad. Maybe he can get a fight with Kessler or Dirrell at 168 while Froch, Ward, Bute battle it out. I think Martinez-Kessler would be a really good fight.
Martinez is a great fighter, no doubt about it. He is 36 and its not like he is fighting every 3 months, so he needs GOOD opposition legacy-wise in his last career performaces. A Floyd or Pacquiao fight isn't happening, forget it. The question is who will he fight next? What about dominating some top guys from the so called "weak, bad" division, other than saying "Ahh he is great, he owns them all". Kessler and Direll are good, tough fights for him, but they have been inactive for a long time and i doubt these fights ever happen. Ward and Froch are in SS and Bute is waiting for the winner. For Martinez there is literally nobody else real good at 168 to face. At 154 there's nobody better than the "weak" guys at 160. Who the hell is next? Cotto, come on.
Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
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Originally Posted by
badr_hari
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MMASUX
I hear ya Bilbo, and i agree no way in hell has he accomplished more than B-hop. The problem is that he's really good in a division that is bad. Maybe he can get a fight with Kessler or Dirrell at 168 while Froch, Ward, Bute battle it out. I think Martinez-Kessler would be a really good fight.
Martinez is a great fighter, no doubt about it. He is 36 and its not like he is fighting every 3 months, so he needs GOOD opposition legacy-wise in his last career performaces. A Floyd or Pacquiao fight isn't happening, forget it. The question is who will he fight next? What about dominating some top guys from the so called "weak, bad" division, other than saying "Ahh he is great, he owns them all". Kessler and Direll are good, tough fights for him, but they have been inactive for a long time and i doubt these fights ever happen. Ward and Froch are in SS and Bute is waiting for the winner. For Martinez there is literally nobody else real good at 168 to face. At 154 there's nobody better than the "weak" guys at 160. Who the hell is next? Cotto, come on.
Ok lets run down the MW's:
Strum- I don't see him leaving Germany, and Martinez isn't going there
Paul Williams 3- don't think i need to explain much here
Pirog- Hasn't done enough to deserve it
Sebastian Sylvester- Just lost, it aint gonna happen
So there we have it. Martinez next opponet will be either Daniel Geale or Andy Lee ;D Maybe he can fight one of them until a bigger fight comes up.
Re: Martinez is too small for 168 :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
He's a coward. Bernard went from 160 to 175 so why can't Martinez go from 154 to 168 if he's the p4p number 2 fighter in the world?
Only 5 ft 10 eh? Well James Toney is 5 ft 9 and went up to heavyweight knocking out Evander Holyfield, beating John Ruiz and lasting two very tough fights against Sam Peter.
Manny of course climbed 10 divisions only to cherry pick the opposition there with such weak names as Cotto, Mosley and Margarito (at 150).
Sergio annoys me.
Your logic sucks. Like Emmanuel steward said "Bernard was naturally more like a LHW his whole career. He was just extremely discipled to make that weight for that many years."
James Toney got F-ing fat because he wouldn't do proper training. Zero road work. He could rely on his boxing ability alone and his granite chin.
Martinez fought every top contender for 1/20th of what Mayweather and Pacquiao fight for. He gave up 15 pounds and 4-5" against Pavlik! Martinez found MOST of his career at WW. Look at the #'s. So I see 3 weight divisions with a +7lbs +6lbs ... A total of 13 pounds of weight in just a couple years. Mayweather went from 130 to 154 (and that's being very generous for fighting 1 fight at 154) a total of 24lbs difference, but in the span of a much longer career.
I hate to point our all the numbers and shit, because P4P is more based on skill than anything else. I just don't see why anyone would be up in arms about Pac or Mayweather fighting this cat. You must really sweat Mayweather hard, since he is the savior of boxing and all.
I mean, he is single handedly cleaning up the whole sport one libel accusation at a time. At least he gets to shake the ring rust off with his baby momma and security guard.
