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Kostya Tszyu is deserving of being inducted into the HOF, and certainly as deserving as many of the inductees who've gotten in with lessor resumes. Tszyu was a legit champion, and he brought excitement and added interest to the sport of boxing. Apparently the folks who voted him into the Hall, must have agreed with me.
If losing meant dismissal, a Hall of Fame would not exist. Barry McGuigan got in. Nuff said.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Trouble with the Hall is that they have no criteria in writing. No operating manifesto. It's a very subjective process.
Right, the main purpose of the hall is to honor outstanding fighters and their achievements, and not everyone who gets in needs to be a Marciano, Ali, SRR, et al. There's probably a guy or 2 in the HOF that doesn't deserve to be there, but big deal, like you're saying, it's all subjective anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
If losing meant dismissal, a Hall of Fame would not exist. Barry McGuigan got in. Nuff said.
Trouble with the Hall is that they have no criteria in writing. No operating manifesto. It's a very subjective process.
You could say the same thing about Aaron Pryor, his best opponent was Arguello a bulked up Featherweight! I remember people saying what a strong and exciting division the 140lb Jr welter was at the time. Mitchell had not been beaten for 7 years, Judah was at his peak and was going to cut through Tszyu like swiss cheese, there was Gonzalez, Hurtado etc Many great champions have had bad fights and lost to fighters they shouldn't have and for various reasons: Foreman to Jimmy Young, Pryor to Bobby Joe Young, Arguello to Fernandez, Olivares to Herrera (twice) Frazier was almost out to Bonavena, Ali to Cooper etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Maybe because Tszyu beat his opponents so easily people have the opinion the division was weak? What cannot be taken away from him is the fact that more than half of his pro career was fought against world champions. He finished at the right time, he had injuries and age had got the better of him.
That nut shot from Ricky Hatton didn't help extend his career any...Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANYou could say the same thing about Aaron Pryor, his best opponent was Arguello a bulked up Featherweight! I remember people saying what a strong and exciting division the 140lb Jr welter was at the time. Mitchell had not been beaten for 7 years, Judah was at his peak and was going to cut through Tszyu like swiss cheese, there was Gonzalez, Hurtado etc Many great champions have had bad fights and lost to fighters they shouldn't have and for various reasons: Foreman to Jimmy Young, Pryor to Bobby Joe Young, Arguello to Fernandez, Olivares to Herrera (twice) Frazier was almost out to Bonavena, Ali to Cooper etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Maybe because Tszyu beat his opponents so easily people have the opinion the division was weak? What cannot be taken away from him is the fact that more than half of his pro career was fought against world champions. He finished at the right time, he had injuries and age had got the better of him.
Shots...and there were plenty of them! I would've waved it all off by round 9 and sent Hatton back to the rule book.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkThat nut shot from Ricky Hatton didn't help extend his career any...Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANYou could say the same thing about Aaron Pryor, his best opponent was Arguello a bulked up Featherweight! I remember people saying what a strong and exciting division the 140lb Jr welter was at the time. Mitchell had not been beaten for 7 years, Judah was at his peak and was going to cut through Tszyu like swiss cheese, there was Gonzalez, Hurtado etc Many great champions have had bad fights and lost to fighters they shouldn't have and for various reasons: Foreman to Jimmy Young, Pryor to Bobby Joe Young, Arguello to Fernandez, Olivares to Herrera (twice) Frazier was almost out to Bonavena, Ali to Cooper etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Maybe because Tszyu beat his opponents so easily people have the opinion the division was weak? What cannot be taken away from him is the fact that more than half of his pro career was fought against world champions. He finished at the right time, he had injuries and age had got the better of him.
Kostya Tszyu didn't look like he had any problems during the Vince Phillips fight, he just fought a guy who was hungry and didn't give him space. As it's been said many times Kostya Tszyu likes distance, his inside fighting skills aren't great which is why he was beaten by both Hatton, Phillips.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANUnlike Jones Jr and Mosley Tszyu did the right thing and retired, he fought a young gun in Hatton on his home turf, with just 3 rounds in the ring in 36 months, an english ref and 20,000 Hatton fans cheering on every low blow that was landed..so the noise was deafening. Tszyu was approaching 36 yrs old, coming back after a shoulder injury and was quite simply done. More than half his pro fight career was against 16 World Champions. The Phillips loss being the only real blemish and that was due to a gastro attack that left him drained before fight time after the weigh in. Remember he almost had Phillips out of there in round 3, he had nothing left in the tank after round 5, a rematch would have seen a very early KO win. The only reason a rematch didn't happen was Millet stopped Phillips in 1999 and Tszyu went onto to fight Gonzalez. The amazing thing is, i don't think we ever really saw the best of Kostya Tszyu, we saw glimpses of it, but without a Mosley, DLH or Floyd fight i think he will always have a question mark against in his name and that's a shame. He was an undisputed world champion in his time and that is a rarity in boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBKostya Tszyu didn't look like he had any problems during the Vince Phillips fight, he just fought a guy who was hungry and didn't give him space. As it's been said many times Kostya Tszyu likes distance, his inside fighting skills aren't great which is why he was beaten by both Hatton, Phillips.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANUnlike Jones Jr and Mosley Tszyu did the right thing and retired, he fought a young gun in Hatton on his home turf, with just 3 rounds in the ring in 36 months, an english ref and 20,000 Hatton fans cheering on every low blow that was landed..so the noise was deafening. Tszyu was approaching 36 yrs old, coming back after a shoulder injury and was quite simply done. More than half his pro fight career was against 16 World Champions. The Phillips loss being the only real blemish and that was due to a gastro attack that left him drained before fight time after the weigh in. Remember he almost had Phillips out of there in round 3, he had nothing left in the tank after round 5, a rematch would have seen a very early KO win. The only reason a rematch didn't happen was Millet stopped Phillips in 1999 and Tszyu went onto to fight Gonzalez. The amazing thing is, i don't think we ever really saw the best of Kostya Tszyu, we saw glimpses of it, but without a Mosley, DLH or Floyd fight i think he will always have a question mark against in his name and that's a shame. He was an undisputed world champion in his time and that is a rarity in boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_ax
He could box very well,I think he just chose war instead and liked to test his own ground and that of others. You only got to watch his dismantlement of Vernon Forrest in the world titles to see what tools he had behind him.
I don't really disagree with Tszyu being inducted, I guess I just don't really feel he's a 1st ballot hall of famer. I think of those being inducted this time, only really Chavez has the feel of a 1st ballot kind of guy. Tyson obviously is because of who he is, but in truth his resume is not a million miles better than Tszyu's. He deserves to be there though, so I guess he gets in when he gets in. I do feel a bit sorry for him that on the two occasions that he was so close to real huge fights, he lost the fight before. I've often wondered whether he lost those fights because Phillips & Hatton were bad style match-ups for him or if he just took his eye off the ball a little & started thinking about Oscar & Floyd.
I am somewhat puzzled as to the criticism of Tszyu's induction to the HOF and the questioning of his record. As i have stated before he fought 16 world champions including fighting one in only his 4th pro fight. I remember Tszyu's camp throwing out the challenge to JCC after that and JC wanted nothing to do with him then. Tszyu became a world champion in January 1995 and was still a world champion in June 2005, he unified the division, not done for 30 years and beat all comers in a division that at one time was regarded as the best in boxing in 2001!
I am not sure what else he could've done, he lost only twice and there were reasons for both losses (he was physically ill the night before the Phillips fight, but the fight went ahead) that's boxing, the show must go on, but no one should judge him on the Phillips loss. Any rematch would've seen a very early KO win for Tszyu, Millett just got in first. The only person happier than Vince Phillips that night was Oscar De La Hoya!
As for Hatton, Tszyu was approaching 36 yrs old, had injuries and fought just 3 rounds in 36 months. He didn't expect to be wearing his balls as earrings that night either! Judge him on what he did over a 12 year career not those two losses. Will anyone be critical of Mosley when he is inducted? The last 9 years of his career show a 50% win loss record!
9 wins 7 losses 1 NC 1 Draw. :o
I think that its just a case of being only as good as your last fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Many people remember Tzyu quitting against Ricky Hatton and are forgetting about all the great victories he had. And just how highly rated he was in the boxing world at 140, particularly after he beat Sharmba Mitchell the second time.
It's not just his pro career, He had a huge armature career as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Mosley at age 36 to 40 had that record and look who he fought during that period. Kt lost to fucking VP and never avenged it so kinda has a mark on his career and then to Hatton and then quiet at 36. He beat Oscars left overs JCC and then his best wins are Judah and Mitchell i mean not that impressive. I mean he has beat no Atgs anywhere near there prime or even Hofs. He was in a weak division and never moved up to change that he is far step below a Mosely or Dela Hoya and far from a atg.
Now its not that i don't think KT is good but i not sure if he is a great or were he would be ranked. He is a elite but hes not Holyfeild or a Dela Hoya just don't really know were to place him.
Tszyu was a brilliant fighter who had an exceptional amateur career. He had great timing which is why he beat Zab, I think he could have beaten Floyd that night. timing beats speed.