The Recent Demise of American Boxing

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by erics44

american kids play lots of strange games that take all day and are very unentertaining

baseball, american football

and the rest play dull none contact games like basketball

and then there are homosexual "sports" that dominate your tv watched by youngsters such as wrestling

you dont get such sports and games and such like entertainment in other countries

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Yeah we should probably get into Cricket, cause that's a quick one. Or maybe higher contact like darts. And of course no other country has wrestling right? :rolleyes:

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you got an issue with cricket?

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Don't be dissing the Darts, Sheep. Darts pisses all over boxing. Fact.

I think killersheep is probably about right. The type of environment that attracts fighters is no longer as attractive or relevant to modern-day America. In other words - There are easier/safer ways to earn big money.

Also boxing is far more global now than it used to be (for all fans worldwide). Just 5-6 years ago on this site it was common for American fans to state "champions" from outside the USA hadn't "proved" themselves, or had padded records and the like. I see less and less of this attitude now. So maybe you just think there has been a drastic decline?

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Didn't diss darts, until they start throwing them at each other it's hardly a contact sport though no?

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darts is none contact yes but not for athletes and not something young people who might have got into boxing get into

its for people who like sitting in pubs drinking beer

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

I think there is no question that both American boxing and boxing around the world are on the decline.

In the US we have fewer fighters, fewer boxing shows, fewer gyms, fewer good teachers etc than we've had in at least 60 and probably more like 90 years. Why has this come to pass? Four big reasons (and a bunch of little ones).
1. Cultural-There is no other way to look at it, the US has become wussified. The entire culture is becoming feminized in terms of how boys are raised. Fighting is really frowned upon.
2. Economic-Fighters often come from places where people worry about their next meal. That stopped happening here a generation ago.
3. Competition-Up until 50 years ago talented athletes had two ways to make big money. Boxing and baseball. So those sports got the cream of the athletic crop. Now? one caqn make a good living playing soccer, football, baseball, golf, tennis, swimming, weightlifitng and on and on.
4. Corruption-The increase in the number of divisions and belts and therefore the ability of fighters to avoid other top fighters and still call themselves a "champion" has not been lost on fans.

Around the world, with the exception of the old Warsaw Pact Nations and Argentina? The sport is in similar decline. Argentina is about where it has been for 50 years, the Warsaw Pact Nations have come from nowhere to somewhere rapidly.

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Same in the Uk. Of course it's not everywhere over here and tough areas will always exist. But in general blokes are definitely a lot more feminine, worrying how they look, getting their hair right, posing in bars. Too many people are worried about how they look in other peoples eyes more than they are worried about having a good time. Also health and safety rules everywhere it's ridiculous. Fighting is frowned upon not even just by the authorities but in society everywhere everyone is becoming soft.

Killer, I agree to an extent, but to be a professional baseball, football, hockey, or basketball player, at this point in time, you really have to be 6'0ish 180ish and above. There just aren't many smaller athletes in those sports. However, boxing gives great athletes aren't quite as tall a forum, yet, there aren't very many amazing boxers out there from the US at the lower weights either. I get it that there are easier ways to make money and maybe that's your point, but are there really other sports for shorter athletes?

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Killer, I agree to an extent, but to be a professional baseball, football, hockey, or basketball player, at this point in time, you really have to be 6'0ish 180ish and above. There just aren't many smaller athletes in those sports. However, boxing gives great athletes aren't quite as tall a forum, yet, there aren't very many amazing boxers out there from the US at the lower weights either. I get it that there are easier ways to make money and maybe that's your point, but are there really other sports for shorter athletes?

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Yup. Guys who would be middles and welters now get college scholarships in basketball (point guards), gymnastics, track, swimming, baseball and tennis. By the time college is over? They are lost to us.

We lose hundreds of possibles every year.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.

#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?

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Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.

Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?

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Well since America is the center of the sports world, I'd say they're a big deal. The only reason soccer is so popular is because it's cheap to play. It's poplular in all countries that haven't figured out how to build a basketball goal or a two story building yet. And just because soccer is the most played, doesn't mean its the most entertaining. It's like watching cross country in a box. I mean come on...a sport where 2-1 is a high scoring game? Wake me up when its over. All other nations are scared shitless of feilding a football team because of the chance they might have to play the americans.

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Originally Posted by 15rounder

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.

#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?

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Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.

Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?

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Well since America is the center of the sports world, I'd say they're a big deal. The only reason soccer is so popular is because it's cheap to play. It's poplular in all countries that haven't figured out how to build a basketball goal or a two story building yet. And just because soccer is the most played, doesn't mean its the most entertaining. It's like watching cross country in a box. I mean come on...a sport where 2-1 is a high scoring game? Wake me up when its over. All other nations are scared shitless of feilding a football team because of the chance they might have to play the americans.

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Now you're just being silly, soccer draws in far more money world wide than any other sport, it's not even close. And the NFL tried a Euro league, how did that pan out? 1-2 seasons maybe?

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Killer, I agree to an extent, but to be a professional baseball, football, hockey, or basketball player, at this point in time, you really have to be 6'0ish 180ish and above. There just aren't many smaller athletes in those sports. However, boxing gives great athletes aren't quite as tall a forum, yet, there aren't very many amazing boxers out there from the US at the lower weights either. I get it that there are easier ways to make money and maybe that's your point, but are there really other sports for shorter athletes?

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Horse jockeys :D, Soccer players, mathletes.

Yes I understand, but is there really money for young American boxers in the lighter weight classes? Bradley and Alexander did okay in their outings although based on the turn out and viewership they sure won't be getting anything past their guaranteed extra pay day. Victor Ortiz maybe pulls in some cash. So I'd say there are a few at 140-147 that can make a living doing this as those divisions are stacked with stars, but lightweight and lower is a tough sell in the US especially as a main event. 160 and up the talent pool would clearly have Americans that are over 6' mark if they weren't getting into other sports. 154 I leave out, because by far and large it's a pass through division that noone stays at. So yeah the prospects of even the lower weight classes making money is bleak.

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by erics44

american kids play lots of strange games that take all day and are very unentertaining

baseball, american football

and the rest play dull none contact games like basketball

and then there are homosexual "sports" that dominate your tv watched by youngsters such as wrestling

you dont get such sports and games and such like entertainment in other countries

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Yeah we should probably get into Cricket, cause that's a quick one. Or maybe higher contact like darts. And of course no other country has wrestling right? :rolleyes:

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you got an issue with cricket?

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Yes it takes a very long time and is very unentertaining.

Cricket is the most boring sport on earth. Darts is the greatest (fat British drunk guys become millionaires). That's why don't be dissing it, sheepster ;)

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by 15rounder

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.

#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?

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Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.

Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?

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Well since America is the center of the sports world, I'd say they're a big deal. The only reason soccer is so popular is because it's cheap to play. It's poplular in all countries that haven't figured out how to build a basketball goal or a two story building yet. And just because soccer is the most played, doesn't mean its the most entertaining. It's like watching cross country in a box. I mean come on...a sport where 2-1 is a high scoring game? Wake me up when its over. All other nations are scared shitless of feilding a football team because of the chance they might have to play the americans.

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Now you're just being silly, soccer draws in far more money world wide than any other sport, it's not even close. And the NFL tried a Euro league, how did that pan out? 1-2 seasons maybe?

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The NFL is the no. 1 sports league in generating revenue. Not bad for a sport that only Americans watch.

9 Billion USD for the NFL. For a soccer league like the EPL it's only £2.5 billion, the most profitable of all the soccer leagues. You're right it's not even close.;)

And for people shitting on basketball and baseball. Those are probably the no. 2 and 3 sports in the world in being watched. Europe might not like those sports that doesn't mean Asia and Latin America doesn't.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by 15rounder

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.

#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?

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Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.

Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?

---

Well since America is the center of the sports world, I'd say they're a big deal. The only reason soccer is so popular is because it's cheap to play. It's poplular in all countries that haven't figured out how to build a basketball goal or a two story building yet. And just because soccer is the most played, doesn't mean its the most entertaining. It's like watching cross country in a box. I mean come on...a sport where 2-1 is a high scoring game? Wake me up when its over. All other nations are scared shitless of feilding a football team because of the chance they might have to play the americans.

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Now you're just being silly, soccer draws in far more money world wide than any other sport, it's not even close. And the NFL tried a Euro league, how did that pan out? 1-2 seasons maybe?

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The NFL is the no. 1 sports league in generating revenue. Not bad for a sport that only Americans watch.

9 Billion USD for the NFL. For a soccer league like the EPL it's only £2.5 billion, the most profitable of all the soccer leagues. You're right it's not even close.;)

And for people shitting on basketball and baseball. Those are probably the no. 2 and 3 sports in the world in being watched. Europe might not like those sports that doesn't mean Asia and Latin America doesn't.

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Now all the soccer leagues in the world vs. all the football leagues in the world. Further add in revenues from national team matches.

I do concede that Baseball is very popular in Asia and Latin America

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Originally Posted by erics44

american kids play lots of strange games that take all day and are very unentertaining

baseball, american football

and the rest play dull none contact games like basketball

and then there are homosexual "sports" that dominate your tv watched by youngsters such as wrestling

you dont get such sports and games and such like entertainment in other countries

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wrestling a homosexual sport, Brock Lesnar a by product of that male soap opera is the scariest man alive. It maybe fake but we can't deny the athleticism behind it. I wonder how many times we can bench press, Brock's warm up of 225 lbs.

Historically speaking the great American boxers have come from the ethnic/immigrant groups at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder. These communities have seen a large decline in the number of gyms available to them. The lack of gyms is a chicken or egg issue. Did the gyms decline due to a lack of interest in boxing or did the lack of interest in boxing happen due to the decline of gyms. Baseball has also had a decline in American minority participation due to the number of participants needed, equipment availability and lack of facilities. I'd be willing to make a hefty wager that just about every low-income housing area in the U.S. has some sort of basketball court hence inner city black kids simply need a ball and 2-10 guys to get a game going. This is pretty similar to my experience in third world countries where a group of barefoot children kick a makeshift ball around a dirt patch. As the quality of life has improved in the U.S. along with more athletic opportunities (regardless of the international interest in them) its not hard to see why someone would choose a sport that doesn't involve them being punched in the face. Barring another Tyson or SRL that grabs the collective U.S. interest and/or another influx of immigrants with a cultural history of boxing I think the current status of American boxing is here to stay.

If the decline is due to people not wanting to be punched in the face to make money, shouldn't mma be in just of bad as shape?