Re: Their Very Best Night
James Toney beating Iran Barkley is an absolutely masterful performance to me, he displayed so much ring craft in that fight while still being in great condition which quickly teetered off in the years following. Another fight I've showed a few friends and could watch frequently is his war with Jirov. Toney clearly wasn't the same physical force at cruiserweight and wasn't at his best form, but it was a great testament to his skills the way he wore down a much stronger guy who fought out of his skin as well that night. That was the fight that really got me into boxing actually, I was blown away by the tactics he used and the way he was able to close the fight out. I can't imagine Toney threw half as many punches as Jirov did but was surgical in there.
Re: Their Very Best Night
Cassius Clay v Cleveland Williams
Sonny Liston v Wayne Bethea
Floyd Patterson v Henry Cooper
and one for the connoisseurs ....... Roland LaStarza v Rocky Marciano
Re: Their Very Best Night
Re: Their Very Best Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Ruben Olivares vs Lionel Rose
Pernell Whitaker vs Miguel Santana
Hector Samacho vs Jose Luis Ramirez
Alexis Arguello vs Ruben Olivares
Julio Cesar Chavez vs Ruben Castillo
Terry Norris vs Simon Brown 2
Larry Holmes vs Earnie Shavers 1
Matthew Saad Muhammad vs Marvin Johnson 1
Dwight Muhammad Qawi vs Matthew Saad Muhammad 2
Michael Spinks vs Yaqui Lopez
Chris Eubank vs John Jarvis
Michael Watson vs Nigel Benn
Juan Manuel Marquez vs Manny Pacquiao 1
NICE list. I love that JMM's fight is one he didn't win. Good one.
Arguello-Olivares? Hmmmm. A little early for Alexis in my view.
I almost picked the Marvin Johnson fight for Saad. Good one.
Olivares-Rose is almost certainly the right call.
I just loved the way Alexis Arguello comeback especially after that torrid 12th round, to turn it right around in the next round was fantastic especially considering who he was facing. What would be your opinion regarding Alexis Arguello's best night then ? the one against Ray Mancini ? Andy Gangigan ? i'd like to hear your thoughts.
Matthew Saad Muhammad had so many classic's it's really hard to pin down, his best night. But i think either one of those two is right.
As for JMM taking into account who he was facing, and considering he was floored 3 times and had broken nose in the 1st round. To arguably comeback and win 8 rounds and IMO win the fight was simply amazing, i can't really remember many fighters coming back from such a bad 1st round beating except Benn/McClellan.
Re: Their Very Best Night
Meldrick Taylor vs James buddy Mcgirt...materpiece.
Re: Their Very Best Night
Ali V Williams - It's the perfect Ali fight, you see the speed, the flair and the power of Ali all in 3 short rounds. Ali was unbeatable in 1966.
Foreman V Frazier 1 - This demolition of Joe Frazier was one of the most frightening displays of brute force ever seen in the ring. This was Joe Frazier he was fighting, the man who beat Ali, yet George destroys 'Smokin Joe' in 2 rounds. Incredible!
Sanchez V Gomez- If anyone ever doubts how great Salvador Sanchez was, then look at his demolition of knockout king Wilfredo Gomez. Sanchez was cut down in the prime of life (dead at 23), but may not have reached his prime in the ring yet. Imagine this boxing fans, Sanchez would have dominated the Featherweight, Super Featherweight and most likely Lightweight division throughout the 80's. He would've fought Nelson again, maybe a trilogy? and JCC might never have won a World Super Featherweight title?
Leonard V Benitez - A flawless display against one of the most underrated fighters of all time. Leonard was in perfect form this night.
Duran V Leonard 1- Duran was at his finest in this fight, it has everything the Duran legend has told us about the man. He completely intimidated Leonard in this fight, watch the ref instructions, Leonard knew who could not win.
Hearns v Duran - The Hitman lived up to his nickname and destroys Duran in 2 rounds, similar to Foreman over Frazier, you wouldn't believe it unless you saw it for yourself.
Hagler v Hearns- The marvellous one threw caution to the wind and took on big hitting Tommy Hearns and walked through his best shots.
Whitaker V JCC- One of the greatest boxing displays of all time and all he gets is a draw? WTF?
Mosely V DLH 1- Sugar Shane Mosley's finest hour, he took on the golden boy and nullified him in his prime. Mosely was simply not going to be beaten that night, oddly enough judges had this fight closer than the second fight which Mosley was soundly beaten IMO.
Pacquaio V Hatton- Hatton didn't stand a chance against a rampaging Pacman, one punch and lights out. The fatboy has been on the happy snacks ever since!
Re: Their Very Best Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Ruben Olivares vs Lionel Rose
Pernell Whitaker vs Miguel Santana
Hector Samacho vs Jose Luis Ramirez
Alexis Arguello vs Ruben Olivares
Julio Cesar Chavez vs Ruben Castillo
Terry Norris vs Simon Brown 2
Larry Holmes vs Earnie Shavers 1
Matthew Saad Muhammad vs Marvin Johnson 1
Dwight Muhammad Qawi vs Matthew Saad Muhammad 2
Michael Spinks vs Yaqui Lopez
Chris Eubank vs John Jarvis
Michael Watson vs Nigel Benn
Juan Manuel Marquez vs Manny Pacquiao 1
NICE list. I love that JMM's fight is one he didn't win. Good one.
Arguello-Olivares? Hmmmm. A little early for Alexis in my view.
I almost picked the Marvin Johnson fight for Saad. Good one.
Olivares-Rose is almost certainly the right call.
I just loved the way Alexis Arguello comeback especially after that torrid 12th round, to turn it right around in the next round was fantastic especially considering who he was facing. What would be your opinion regarding Alexis Arguello's best night then ? the one against Ray Mancini ? Andy Gangigan ? i'd like to hear your thoughts.
Matthew Saad Muhammad had so many classic's it's really hard to pin down, his best night. But i think either one of those two is right.
As for JMM taking into account who he was facing, and considering he was floored 3 times and had broken nose in the 1st round. To arguably comeback and win 8 rounds and IMO win the fight was simply amazing, i can't really remember many fighters coming back from such a bad 1st round beating except Benn/McClellan.
If I had to pick a night for Arguello it might have been his utter dominance over tough guy Bazooka Limon. Everything was on display and he cut him to pieces. Maybe the Bloodbath at Bayamon? But you make a really good point on the quality of the opposition with Olivares. The coming from behind thing really does exemplify who Arguello was. Hmmmm. OK I'm persuaded! Olivares it is!
The JMM call is I think a brilliant one the more I think about it. It shows JMM's athletic limitations and how he overcomes them with intelligence, ring wisdom, adaptability and determination.
Re: Their Very Best Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Meldrick Taylor vs James buddy Mcgirt...materpiece.
Here's what's funny about that one. I was training at Gleason's in the runup to that fight and Buddy was training there. He was so sharp, so agile, so smart in his sparring I called my Dad and said "He's going to kill Meldrick. I've never seen someone look better in my life!"
Oops!
That experience really taught me just how big the gaps can be between good, very good, great, HOF and ATG kinds of categories. Buddy was always a very good fighter. That night? Meldrick was transcendant.
Re: Their Very Best Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
Ali V Williams - It's the perfect Ali fight, you see the speed, the flair and the power of Ali all in 3 short rounds. Ali was unbeatable in 1966.
Foreman V Frazier 1 - This demolition of Joe Frazier was one of the most frightening displays of brute force ever seen in the ring. This was Joe Frazier he was fighting, the man who beat Ali, yet George destroys 'Smokin Joe' in 2 rounds. Incredible!
Sanchez V Gomez- If anyone ever doubts how great Salvador Sanchez was, then look at his demolition of knockout king Wilfredo Gomez. Sanchez was cut down in the prime of life (dead at 23), but may not have reached his prime in the ring yet. Imagine this boxing fans, Sanchez would have dominated the Featherweight, Super Featherweight and most likely Lightweight division throughout the 80's. He would've fought Nelson again, maybe a trilogy? and JCC might never have won a World Super Featherweight title?
Leonard V Benitez - A flawless display against one of the most underrated fighters of all time. Leonard was in perfect form this night.
Duran V Leonard 1- Duran was at his finest in this fight, it has everything the Duran legend has told us about the man. He completely intimidated Leonard in this fight, watch the ref instructions, Leonard knew who could not win.
Hearns v Duran - The Hitman lived up to his nickname and destroys Duran in 2 rounds, similar to Foreman over Frazier, you wouldn't believe it unless you saw it for yourself.
Hagler v Hearns- The marvellous one threw caution to the wind and took on big hitting Tommy Hearns and walked through his best shots.
Whitaker V JCC- One of the greatest boxing displays of all time and all he gets is a draw? WTF?
Mosely V DLH 1- Sugar Shane Mosley's finest hour, he took on the golden boy and nullified him in his prime. Mosely was simply not going to be beaten that night, oddly enough judges had this fight closer than the second fight which Mosley was soundly beaten IMO.
Pacquaio V Hatton- Hatton didn't stand a chance against a rampaging Pacman, one punch and lights out. The fatboy has been on the happy snacks ever since!
Great list. Agree on all the bold.
A question on Ray Leonard. I know he was older and slower and that Hagler was fading too, but do you think that fight might have been the best way to show Ray? He was giving up so much in the way of strnegth and power.
Re: Their Very Best Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
James Toney beating Iran Barkley is an absolutely masterful performance to me, he displayed so much ring craft in that fight while still being in great condition which quickly teetered off in the years following. Another fight I've showed a few friends and could watch frequently is his war with Jirov. Toney clearly wasn't the same physical force at cruiserweight and wasn't at his best form, but it was a great testament to his skills the way he wore down a much stronger guy who fought out of his skin as well that night. That was the fight that really got me into boxing actually, I was blown away by the tactics he used and the way he was able to close the fight out. I can't imagine Toney threw half as many punches as Jirov did but was surgical in there.
Toney's hard. I mean your choice is as good as any, but Jirov, the Bodysnatcher II also both show the sheer brilliance of Toney (fit or not).
Re: Their Very Best Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
Ali V Williams - It's the perfect Ali fight, you see the speed, the flair and the power of Ali all in 3 short rounds. Ali was unbeatable in 1966.
Foreman V Frazier 1 - This demolition of Joe Frazier was one of the most frightening displays of brute force ever seen in the ring. This was Joe Frazier he was fighting, the man who beat Ali, yet George destroys 'Smokin Joe' in 2 rounds. Incredible!
Sanchez V Gomez- If anyone ever doubts how great Salvador Sanchez was, then look at his demolition of knockout king Wilfredo Gomez. Sanchez was cut down in the prime of life (dead at 23), but may not have reached his prime in the ring yet. Imagine this boxing fans, Sanchez would have dominated the Featherweight, Super Featherweight and most likely Lightweight division throughout the 80's. He would've fought Nelson again, maybe a trilogy? and JCC might never have won a World Super Featherweight title?
Leonard V Benitez - A flawless display against one of the most underrated fighters of all time. Leonard was in perfect form this night.
Duran V Leonard 1- Duran was at his finest in this fight, it has everything the Duran legend has told us about the man. He completely intimidated Leonard in this fight, watch the ref instructions, Leonard knew who could not win.
Hearns v Duran - The Hitman lived up to his nickname and destroys Duran in 2 rounds, similar to Foreman over Frazier, you wouldn't believe it unless you saw it for yourself.
Hagler v Hearns- The marvellous one threw caution to the wind and took on big hitting Tommy Hearns and walked through his best shots.
Whitaker V JCC- One of the greatest boxing displays of all time and all he gets is a draw? WTF?
Mosely V DLH 1- Sugar Shane Mosley's finest hour, he took on the golden boy and nullified him in his prime. Mosely was simply not going to be beaten that night, oddly enough judges had this fight closer than the second fight which Mosley was soundly beaten IMO.
Pacquaio V Hatton- Hatton didn't stand a chance against a rampaging Pacman, one punch and lights out. The fatboy has been on the happy snacks ever since!
Great list. Agree on all the bold.
A question on Ray Leonard. I know he was older and slower and that Hagler was fading too, but do you think that fight might have been the best way to show Ray? He was giving up so much in the way of strnegth and power.
Sugar Ray Leonard was a very smart fighter, extraordinary abilty to think things through not only post fight (Duran), but during a fight too (Hearns 1) I think he simply out smartered Hagler who i believe took him lightly. Hagler may have faded by 87', there was certainly not the urgency and unforgiving relentless approach that he had with Hearns 2 years earlier? The decision has always caused controversy, but i've seen a lot worse and in reality Hagler didn't do enough to win. As for my choice of the perfect Leonard fight, his countering of Benitez is a sight to behold and Benitez was one of the best boxers of the past 50 years! Leonard never looked like losing it.
Re: Their Very Best Night
Hearns-Schuler - 1 hit KO againts a legitimate middleweight. Big rebound from the Hagler loss
Luisito Espinosa-Alejandro Gonzalez- Vicious right hand knock gonzalez off his senses
Pacquiao-Ledwabba - The Master got Assaulted and he cant do anything about it.
Jones Jr-Griffin - Ohhhh what a left hook!
Tyson-Spinks - I saw Spinks eyes were blank.
Duran-Barkley - I know Duran had performed better but WTF? how did he do that? Barkley is practically a light heavyweight :o
Re: Their Very Best Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
We often discuss a fighter's prime. Sometimes we discuss a shorter perio, his peak. Now I'm going one step further. In what single fight was he at his very best. If you wanted to show someone how good a given guy COULD BE? What fight do you show?
Some are pretty easy.
Joe Frazier UD15 Muhammad Ali
Max Schmeling KO12 Joe Louis
Barry McGuigan UD15 Antonio Cervantes
Here are some that in my view are true, but probably will cause some controversy
Tommy Hearns UD 15 Wilfredo Benitez-Hearns showed his offensive greatness in dropping El Radar and his boxing greatness by then outboxing him.
Azumah Nelson KO8 Jeff Fenech-The Professor at his arrogant, powerful and dangerous best on Fenech's home ground.
Matthew Saad Muhammad TKO14 Yaqui Lopez-This one is weird because to show Miracle Mathhew you have to show a fight he almost loses.
Joe Louis KO4 Max Baer-I just don't think he was ever any sharper.
Ricardo Lopez TKO12 Andy Tabanas-While his KO of Sorjaturong is more impressive? it didn't take long enough to really show Finito.
Where am I wrong and waddya got?
If you go by that statement, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Buster Douglas on the night he beat Mike Tyson. I've watched that fight a few times, and.... although everyone is quick to point out how off his game Tyson was, and that he was overconfident due to never having lost.... I think it does a disservice to Douglas, who arguably fought one of the best fights a heavyweight could fight.
He was lean, in shape, fearless.... and fought the perfect fight against Tyson. The fight itself was great. Not boring, not a clinch-fest, not a tactical chess match, not a Wlad-Haye fight (oops). It was truly a great fight. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks so, but Douglas-Tyson is the quintessential fight you'd show to someone to show how good Douglas could've been, had he given himself fully to his career. He had the talent, and the size. He didn't have the heart, or the mind.
Re: Their Very Best Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE THIRD MAN
Ali V Williams - It's the perfect Ali fight, you see the speed, the flair and the power of Ali all in 3 short rounds. Ali was unbeatable in 1966.
Foreman V Frazier 1 - This demolition of Joe Frazier was one of the most frightening displays of brute force ever seen in the ring. This was Joe Frazier he was fighting, the man who beat Ali, yet George destroys 'Smokin Joe' in 2 rounds. Incredible!
Sanchez V Gomez- If anyone ever doubts how great Salvador Sanchez was, then look at his demolition of knockout king Wilfredo Gomez. Sanchez was cut down in the prime of life (dead at 23), but may not have reached his prime in the ring yet. Imagine this boxing fans, Sanchez would have dominated the Featherweight, Super Featherweight and most likely Lightweight division throughout the 80's. He would've fought Nelson again, maybe a trilogy? and JCC might never have won a World Super Featherweight title?
Leonard V Benitez - A flawless display against one of the most underrated fighters of all time. Leonard was in perfect form this night.
Duran V Leonard 1- Duran was at his finest in this fight, it has everything the Duran legend has told us about the man. He completely intimidated Leonard in this fight, watch the ref instructions, Leonard knew who could not win.
Hearns v Duran - The Hitman lived up to his nickname and destroys Duran in 2 rounds, similar to Foreman over Frazier, you wouldn't believe it unless you saw it for yourself.
Hagler v Hearns- The marvellous one threw caution to the wind and took on big hitting Tommy Hearns and walked through his best shots.
Whitaker V JCC- One of the greatest boxing displays of all time and all he gets is a draw? WTF?
Mosely V DLH 1- Sugar Shane Mosley's finest hour, he took on the golden boy and nullified him in his prime. Mosely was simply not going to be beaten that night, oddly enough judges had this fight closer than the second fight which Mosley was soundly beaten IMO.
Pacquaio V Hatton- Hatton didn't stand a chance against a rampaging Pacman, one punch and lights out. The fatboy has been on the happy snacks ever since!
Great list. Agree on all the bold.
A question on Ray Leonard. I know he was older and slower and that Hagler was fading too, but do you think that fight might have been the best way to show Ray? He was giving up so much in the way of strnegth and power.
Sugar Ray Leonard was a very smart fighter, extraordinary abilty to think things through not only post fight (Duran), but during a fight too (Hearns 1) I think he simply out smartered Hagler who i believe took him lightly. Hagler may have faded by 87', there was certainly not the urgency and unforgiving relentless approach that he had with Hearns 2 years earlier? The decision has always caused controversy, but i've seen a lot worse and in reality Hagler didn't do enough to win. As for my choice of the perfect Leonard fight, his countering of Benitez is a sight to behold and Benitez was one of the best boxers of the past 50 years! Leonard never looked like losing it.
Pretty hard to argue with any of that. The oddest thing about the Benitez fight? Ray was the older man.
Re: Their Very Best Night
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
We often discuss a fighter's prime. Sometimes we discuss a shorter perio, his peak. Now I'm going one step further. In what single fight was he at his very best. If you wanted to show someone how good a given guy COULD BE? What fight do you show?
Some are pretty easy.
Joe Frazier UD15 Muhammad Ali
Max Schmeling KO12 Joe Louis
Barry McGuigan UD15 Antonio Cervantes
Here are some that in my view are true, but probably will cause some controversy
Tommy Hearns UD 15 Wilfredo Benitez-Hearns showed his offensive greatness in dropping El Radar and his boxing greatness by then outboxing him.
Azumah Nelson KO8 Jeff Fenech-The Professor at his arrogant, powerful and dangerous best on Fenech's home ground.
Matthew Saad Muhammad TKO14 Yaqui Lopez-This one is weird because to show Miracle Mathhew you have to show a fight he almost loses.
Joe Louis KO4 Max Baer-I just don't think he was ever any sharper.
Ricardo Lopez TKO12 Andy Tabanas-While his KO of Sorjaturong is more impressive? it didn't take long enough to really show Finito.
Where am I wrong and waddya got?
If you go by that statement, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Buster Douglas on the night he beat Mike Tyson. I've watched that fight a few times, and.... although everyone is quick to point out how off his game Tyson was, and that he was overconfident due to never having lost.... I think it does a disservice to Douglas, who arguably fought one of the best fights a heavyweight could fight.
He was lean, in shape, fearless.... and fought the perfect fight against Tyson. The fight itself was great. Not boring, not a clinch-fest, not a tactical chess match, not a Wlad-Haye fight (oops). It was truly a great fight. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks so, but Douglas-Tyson is the quintessential fight you'd show to someone to show how good Douglas
could've been, had he given himself fully to his career. He had the talent, and the size. He didn't have the heart, or the mind.
GREAT call! Good post too!
