Toney is done.
He loses to Lebedev, especially if the fight is in Russia.
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Toney is done.
He loses to Lebedev, especially if the fight is in Russia.
Toney is going to do this, mark my words. Lebedev is crude and smaller than anyone Toney has fought for a decade. Could Jones Jr have stayed at HW and fought and beat who Toney did? I doubt it. Toney is going to go back down and slick this guy out, even at 43.
It's not that big of a challenge for an in shape Toney even at this age. He will be strong, tough and have all those smarts. Lebedev will have a few moments, but will be on the whole quite baffled. He's never faced the skills of Toney.
Exacty bruh.. Some dudes are overrating Lebedev or seriously underestimating James Toney.. NO offense to any of the Lebedev fans but he's clearly not elite. He's a B level fighter and all he can do is close his eyes and swing for the fences and hope something lands cuz he's not touching Toney.
It's amazing that even these daft match ups can get me excited, James Toney is right for this kind of fight, he has called out the perfect opponent. The hardest thing will be for him to make weight!
It's a pick em fight for me,i just don't know what Toney has left at that weight & age. Sure Lebedev is crude but he had been active & has enough skills to at least be competitive with this version of Toney
it would have to be above cruiser. Toney weighed 257 in his one fight this year. 257. If he were to try to get down to 200 for a cruiserweight fight it would be sheer lunacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_ax
That's what i'm thinking, maybe Toney expects Lebedev to fight him at HW, at this point I believe Toney is just fucking crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by captainanddew
Couture has more left than Shamrock but no way is he better than Ken in submissions, hell the Toney win was like one of the only submission wins that didn't come from ground and pound, i don't doubt at all that a shot Shamrock would still be able to take down a shot Toney and then submit him, especially in a sport that Toney has no business inQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuDon't forget Shamrock would only have 30 seconds to get Toney out otherwise it would be brought back to a standup fight. It took Couture a lot longer than that to get Toney out and he had a lot more left in the locker than Shamrock has. Add to that the fact that Shamrock isn't as clever as Couture and probably would have tried exchanging one or two strikes with Toney and to me that spells the end. From 2005 to 2008 Shamrock was knocked out with punches 5 times in a row by much less skilled punchers than Toney.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyou're delusional dude, Shamrock would have gotten another submission win, he's shot in MMA but lets not forget Toney is no MMA fighter, he would get taken down just like he did against Couture and then choked outQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
I'm not for one minute saying he'd have taken Shamrock in his prime, but in the MMA fight they were setting up with the changes to the "normal" rules and taking Shamrock's recent fights and the fact he is totally shot into account, I think Toney had a decent chance.
Good assesment my Mayorga loving amigo.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
I never even heard od Lebedev before he fought Roy Jones.
Toney should have enough left in the gas tank to school this cheap shot artist.
Heres a couple of articals from 3 weeks ago where Toney is already down to 215.Quote:
Originally Posted by captainanddewit would have to be above cruiser. Toney weighed 257 in his one fight this year. 257. If he were to try to get down to 200 for a cruiserweight fight it would be sheer lunacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axThat's what i'm thinking, maybe Toney expects Lebedev to fight him at HW, at this point I believe Toney is just fucking crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by captainanddew
Shocking Pic of the Day: James Toney Might Beat Ken Shamrock Into a Living Death | Cagepotato
FIGHTHYPE \\ JAMES TONEY: "I HAD TO TAKE MY JOB SERIOUS...I JUST PROLONGED MY CAREER WITH THE WEIGHT LOSS"
Maybe I am. I don't really like Toney to be honest but I think even at this late stage of his career he might be too much for pretty much all of the CW division. But it is very weak at the moment. It's never been very strong but at least when they had Bell, Mormeck, Haye and then Adamek, they at least had a true quality fighter as champ. I don't believe Huck (who to me is definitely the best CW) offers that same level and Toney just might be a bit too crafty for anyone now.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratYou're too high on Toney! Let's see if Toney can go 12 championship rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
The question is could he have done it in 30 seconds at this stage of his life??Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesCouture has more left than Shamrock but no way is he better than Ken in submissions, hell the Toney win was like one of the only submission wins that didn't come from ground and pound, i don't doubt at all that a shot Shamrock would still be able to take down a shot Toney and then submit him, especially in a sport that Toney has no business inQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuDon't forget Shamrock would only have 30 seconds to get Toney out otherwise it would be brought back to a standup fight. It took Couture a lot longer than that to get Toney out and he had a lot more left in the locker than Shamrock has. Add to that the fact that Shamrock isn't as clever as Couture and probably would have tried exchanging one or two strikes with Toney and to me that spells the end. From 2005 to 2008 Shamrock was knocked out with punches 5 times in a row by much less skilled punchers than Toney.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyou're delusional dude, Shamrock would have gotten another submission win, he's shot in MMA but lets not forget Toney is no MMA fighter, he would get taken down just like he did against Couture and then choked outQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
I'm not for one minute saying he'd have taken Shamrock in his prime, but in the MMA fight they were setting up with the changes to the "normal" rules and taking Shamrock's recent fights and the fact he is totally shot into account, I think Toney had a decent chance.
first off i've seen guys stay on the mat working for a lot more than 30 seconds, hell half of GSP's fights are on the ground and the fucker wins by UD, and second, if Toney showed up at 257 again and seeing how Shamrock is always in shape, well i wouldn't doubt it for a secondQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuThe question is could he have done it in 30 seconds at this stage of his life??Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesCouture has more left than Shamrock but no way is he better than Ken in submissions, hell the Toney win was like one of the only submission wins that didn't come from ground and pound, i don't doubt at all that a shot Shamrock would still be able to take down a shot Toney and then submit him, especially in a sport that Toney has no business inQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuDon't forget Shamrock would only have 30 seconds to get Toney out otherwise it would be brought back to a standup fight. It took Couture a lot longer than that to get Toney out and he had a lot more left in the locker than Shamrock has. Add to that the fact that Shamrock isn't as clever as Couture and probably would have tried exchanging one or two strikes with Toney and to me that spells the end. From 2005 to 2008 Shamrock was knocked out with punches 5 times in a row by much less skilled punchers than Toney.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyou're delusional dude, Shamrock would have gotten another submission win, he's shot in MMA but lets not forget Toney is no MMA fighter, he would get taken down just like he did against Couture and then choked outQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
I'm not for one minute saying he'd have taken Shamrock in his prime, but in the MMA fight they were setting up with the changes to the "normal" rules and taking Shamrock's recent fights and the fact he is totally shot into account, I think Toney had a decent chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
;)Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
Yes but the rules they had installed for the proposed fight was that if the fight went to the floor, there was only 30 seconds to make the opponent tap, otherwise it would be brought back to a standup fight. Thats why I gave Toney a good chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesfirst off i've seen guys stay on the mat working for a lot more than 30 seconds, hell half of GSP's fights are on the ground and the fucker wins by UD, and second, if Toney showed up at 257 again and seeing how Shamrock is always in shape, well i wouldn't doubt it for a secondQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuThe question is could he have done it in 30 seconds at this stage of his life??Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesCouture has more left than Shamrock but no way is he better than Ken in submissions, hell the Toney win was like one of the only submission wins that didn't come from ground and pound, i don't doubt at all that a shot Shamrock would still be able to take down a shot Toney and then submit him, especially in a sport that Toney has no business inQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuDon't forget Shamrock would only have 30 seconds to get Toney out otherwise it would be brought back to a standup fight. It took Couture a lot longer than that to get Toney out and he had a lot more left in the locker than Shamrock has. Add to that the fact that Shamrock isn't as clever as Couture and probably would have tried exchanging one or two strikes with Toney and to me that spells the end. From 2005 to 2008 Shamrock was knocked out with punches 5 times in a row by much less skilled punchers than Toney.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyou're delusional dude, Shamrock would have gotten another submission win, he's shot in MMA but lets not forget Toney is no MMA fighter, he would get taken down just like he did against Couture and then choked outQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
I'm not for one minute saying he'd have taken Shamrock in his prime, but in the MMA fight they were setting up with the changes to the "normal" rules and taking Shamrock's recent fights and the fact he is totally shot into account, I think Toney had a decent chance.
Toney showed he had no takedown defence or ground game whatsoever when he fought Couture but could he last 30 seconds on the floor with someone like Shamrock? I think so! Could Shamrock get him out in 30 seconds? He has the ability to, but would the time limit make him rush and make mistakes? Maybe! Most importantly, would Shamrock do what Randy wouldn't and try standing with Toney? There is a good chance when you look at his fights over the last ten years, he has stood with plenty of people he shouldn't have and ended up KO'd and I think it could well have ended up the same against Toney.
I'm glad that Shamrock vs. Toney charade got cancelled.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuYes but the rules they had installed for the proposed fight was that if the fight went to the floor, there was only 30 seconds to make the opponent tap, otherwise it would be brought back to a standup fight. Thats why I gave Toney a good chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesfirst off i've seen guys stay on the mat working for a lot more than 30 seconds, hell half of GSP's fights are on the ground and the fucker wins by UD, and second, if Toney showed up at 257 again and seeing how Shamrock is always in shape, well i wouldn't doubt it for a secondQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuThe question is could he have done it in 30 seconds at this stage of his life??Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesCouture has more left than Shamrock but no way is he better than Ken in submissions, hell the Toney win was like one of the only submission wins that didn't come from ground and pound, i don't doubt at all that a shot Shamrock would still be able to take down a shot Toney and then submit him, especially in a sport that Toney has no business inQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuDon't forget Shamrock would only have 30 seconds to get Toney out otherwise it would be brought back to a standup fight. It took Couture a lot longer than that to get Toney out and he had a lot more left in the locker than Shamrock has. Add to that the fact that Shamrock isn't as clever as Couture and probably would have tried exchanging one or two strikes with Toney and to me that spells the end. From 2005 to 2008 Shamrock was knocked out with punches 5 times in a row by much less skilled punchers than Toney.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyou're delusional dude, Shamrock would have gotten another submission win, he's shot in MMA but lets not forget Toney is no MMA fighter, he would get taken down just like he did against Couture and then choked outQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
I'm not for one minute saying he'd have taken Shamrock in his prime, but in the MMA fight they were setting up with the changes to the "normal" rules and taking Shamrock's recent fights and the fact he is totally shot into account, I think Toney had a decent chance.
Toney showed he had no takedown defence or ground game whatsoever when he fought Couture but could he last 30 seconds on the floor with someone like Shamrock? I think so! Could Shamrock get him out in 30 seconds? He has the ability to, but would the time limit make him rush and make mistakes? Maybe! Most importantly, would Shamrock do what Randy wouldn't and try standing with Toney? There is a good chance when you look at his fights over the last ten years, he has stood with plenty of people he shouldn't have and ended up KO'd and I think it could well have ended up the same against Toney.
Not to go too far off topic here, but did you ever see Shamrock vs. Don Frye ? That bitch Shamrock only stood with Don Frye for like less than a minute the whole fight and got knocked on his ass bad when he did. ;D