Manny Pacquiao V Juan Manuel Márquez ,a very close,could have gone either way IMO!

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Originally Posted by porkypara

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by porkypara

I think it all comes down to what you favour when you are scoring a fight.

If you go for work rate and landing the more shots you are likley to go for PM but if you prefere harder cleaner shots you would proboly go for JMM.

Either way,it was a close but NOT controvercial desision.

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I agree with all of that and as an amateur fight I would be forced to give it to Pac on your exact reasons.

This was a pro fight and I gave those rounds to Jmm for your other reason in bold. I didnt score glances and clean taps or ones checked by a glove or ones that touched but Juans head was already moving back or out in reaction. Juan remained in full contact range and yet disolved most of Pacs power but was right there to return those hits with interest added.
That takes so much more skill to do that.
More so against a fighter of Pacs caliber!

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Scoring is so subjective.

Boxing history is full of examples of boxers winning by throwing more shots.

Calzaghe-Hopkins and Leonard-Hagler come to mine as examples of close fights where the fighter that threw the most shots won.

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It is subjective its unavoidable. In this latest case though I think to avoid and counter harder than the initial attacker, is so much more difficult than the aggressive reverse.
Its as if those who score (A wide margin for the reverse style) dont wish to see those skills continue in boxing.

It was a close fight. My guess is, some of the judges deducted Marquez's crotch-shot at the end of round 1.

Watched the replay (had watched it live too), scored it rbr this time, and still thought Pac edged it, 115-113. I thought 4 rounds were complete toss-ups though (4 and 9-11), so I could see as wide as 116-112 *either way*. Calling it a "robbery" is ridiculous and does a disservice to guys like Eraslandy Lara who actually did get robbed.

Basically, the fight, though tense, was highly uneventful in terms of action. More or less nothing happened in a number of rounds. And where there was action, there was so little that you had to decide the rounds on the basis of a couple punches.

I definitely have zero interest in seeing jmm-pac IV. Even rewatching this one was not terribly enjoyable.

pac jmm
r1 10 9 v. little landed; pac lands a couple, jmm basically nothing
r2 9 10 same - 2 ok punches from jmm are the differnce
r3 10 9 nothing happens; pac steals at the end of the round
r4 9 10 total toss-up; jmm gets a couple of body shots and one upstairs vs. 2 upstairs from pac
r5 9 10 nothing for most of the round; jmm wins clearly in last 30 seconds
r6 10 9 again v. close; pac better thru first 2 min
r7 9 10 clearest round so far
r8 9 10 fairly clear
r9 10 9 total toss-up
r10 10 9 total toss-up (pac maybe steals it in the end; really a 10-10)
r11 10 9 toss-up; marquez too negative
r12 10 9 ditto - a little clearer for pac

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Originally Posted by shza

Watched the replay (had watched it live too), scored it rbr this time, and still thought Pac edged it, 115-113. I thought 4 rounds were complete toss-ups though (4 and 9-11), so I could see as wide as 116-112 *either way*. Calling it a "robbery" is ridiculous and does a disservice to guys like Eraslandy Lara who actually did get robbed.

Basically, the fight, though tense, was highly uneventful in terms of action. More or less nothing happened in a number of rounds. And where there was action, there was so little that you had to decide the rounds on the basis of a couple punches.

I definitely have zero interest in seeing jmm-pac IV. Even rewatching this one was not terribly enjoyable.

pac jmm
r1 10 9 v. little landed; pac lands a couple, jmm basically nothing
r2 9 10 same - 2 ok punches from jmm are the differnce
r3 10 9 nothing happens; pac steals at the end of the round
r4 9 10 total toss-up; jmm gets a couple of body shots and one upstairs vs. 2 upstairs from pac
r5 9 10 nothing for most of the round; jmm wins clearly in last 30 seconds
r6 10 9 again v. close; pac better thru first 2 min
r7 9 10 clearest round so far
r8 9 10 fairly clear
r9 10 9 total toss-up
r10 10 9 total toss-up (pac maybe steals it in the end; really a 10-10)
r11 10 9 toss-up; marquez too negative
r12 10 9 ditto - a little clearer for pac

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Quite a few people say round 9 was close, but i thought that was a clear round for JMM. He clearly landed more combination's in that round, and landed the more eye catching punches especially the uppercuts.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by shza

Watched the replay (had watched it live too), scored it rbr this time, and still thought Pac edged it, 115-113. I thought 4 rounds were complete toss-ups though (4 and 9-11), so I could see as wide as 116-112 *either way*. Calling it a "robbery" is ridiculous and does a disservice to guys like Eraslandy Lara who actually did get robbed.

Basically, the fight, though tense, was highly uneventful in terms of action. More or less nothing happened in a number of rounds. And where there was action, there was so little that you had to decide the rounds on the basis of a couple punches.

I definitely have zero interest in seeing jmm-pac IV. Even rewatching this one was not terribly enjoyable.

pac jmm
r1 10 9 v. little landed; pac lands a couple, jmm basically nothing
r2 9 10 same - 2 ok punches from jmm are the differnce
r3 10 9 nothing happens; pac steals at the end of the round
r4 9 10 total toss-up; jmm gets a couple of body shots and one upstairs vs. 2 upstairs from pac
r5 9 10 nothing for most of the round; jmm wins clearly in last 30 seconds
r6 10 9 again v. close; pac better thru first 2 min
r7 9 10 clearest round so far
r8 9 10 fairly clear
r9 10 9 total toss-up
r10 10 9 total toss-up (pac maybe steals it in the end; really a 10-10)
r11 10 9 toss-up; marquez too negative
r12 10 9 ditto - a little clearer for pac

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Quite a few people say round 9 was close, but i thought that was a clear round for JMM. He clearly landed more combination's in that round, and landed the more eye catching punches especially the uppercuts.

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That's a Pacquiao round

Pac
Left straight @ 2:11
combination @ 1:36
Left @1:18

They traded @ 44 and @25

JMM
combination @ 1: 56
Good right hand @ 09


Terribly close round that should go to the aggressor who landed more shots.

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by shza

Watched the replay (had watched it live too), scored it rbr this time, and still thought Pac edged it, 115-113. I thought 4 rounds were complete toss-ups though (4 and 9-11), so I could see as wide as 116-112 *either way*. Calling it a "robbery" is ridiculous and does a disservice to guys like Eraslandy Lara who actually did get robbed.

Basically, the fight, though tense, was highly uneventful in terms of action. More or less nothing happened in a number of rounds. And where there was action, there was so little that you had to decide the rounds on the basis of a couple punches.

I definitely have zero interest in seeing jmm-pac IV. Even rewatching this one was not terribly enjoyable.

pac jmm
r1 10 9 v. little landed; pac lands a couple, jmm basically nothing
r2 9 10 same - 2 ok punches from jmm are the differnce
r3 10 9 nothing happens; pac steals at the end of the round
r4 9 10 total toss-up; jmm gets a couple of body shots and one upstairs vs. 2 upstairs from pac
r5 9 10 nothing for most of the round; jmm wins clearly in last 30 seconds
r6 10 9 again v. close; pac better thru first 2 min
r7 9 10 clearest round so far
r8 9 10 fairly clear
r9 10 9 total toss-up
r10 10 9 total toss-up (pac maybe steals it in the end; really a 10-10)
r11 10 9 toss-up; marquez too negative
r12 10 9 ditto - a little clearer for pac

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Quite a few people say round 9 was close, but i thought that was a clear round for JMM. He clearly landed more combination's in that round, and landed the more eye catching punches especially the uppercuts.

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That's a Pacquiao round

Pac
Left straight @ 2:11
combination @ 1:36
Left @1:18

They traded @ 44 and @25

JMM
combination @ 1: 56
Good right hand @ 09


Terribly close round that should go to the aggressor who landed more shots.

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There was two combinations by JMM one at 1:59 and at 1:56, JMM countered Manny Pacquiao with a right hand after his combination at 1:36 with a solid right hand. A left at 1:18 ? you mean the one even the biased HBO commentator's said missed ? and i just watched it in slow motion and that left uppercut missed by a mile and then JMM counters with a combination. JMM at 00:56 catches Manny Pacquiao coming in with a right hand.

You also failed to mention two other really good moments for JMM, a left uppercut at 00:31 snaps Manny Pacquiao's head back, and at 00:13 JMM throws a 3 punch combination and lands a left uppercut once again and a right hand.

WOW,you guys have a lot of time on your hands if you can look that much into it.LOL

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by shza

Watched the replay (had watched it live too), scored it rbr this time, and still thought Pac edged it, 115-113. I thought 4 rounds were complete toss-ups though (4 and 9-11), so I could see as wide as 116-112 *either way*. Calling it a "robbery" is ridiculous and does a disservice to guys like Eraslandy Lara who actually did get robbed.

Basically, the fight, though tense, was highly uneventful in terms of action. More or less nothing happened in a number of rounds. And where there was action, there was so little that you had to decide the rounds on the basis of a couple punches.

I definitely have zero interest in seeing jmm-pac IV. Even rewatching this one was not terribly enjoyable.

pac jmm
r1 10 9 v. little landed; pac lands a couple, jmm basically nothing
r2 9 10 same - 2 ok punches from jmm are the differnce
r3 10 9 nothing happens; pac steals at the end of the round
r4 9 10 total toss-up; jmm gets a couple of body shots and one upstairs vs. 2 upstairs from pac
r5 9 10 nothing for most of the round; jmm wins clearly in last 30 seconds
r6 10 9 again v. close; pac better thru first 2 min
r7 9 10 clearest round so far
r8 9 10 fairly clear
r9 10 9 total toss-up
r10 10 9 total toss-up (pac maybe steals it in the end; really a 10-10)
r11 10 9 toss-up; marquez too negative
r12 10 9 ditto - a little clearer for pac

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Quite a few people say round 9 was close, but i thought that was a clear round for JMM. He clearly landed more combination's in that round, and landed the more eye catching punches especially the uppercuts.

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That's a Pacquiao round

Pac
Left straight @ 2:11
combination @ 1:36
Left @1:18

They traded @ 44 and @25

JMM
combination @ 1: 56
Good right hand @ 09


Terribly close round that should go to the aggressor who landed more shots.

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There was two combinations by JMM one at 1:59 and at 1:56, JMM countered Manny Pacquiao with a right hand after his combination at 1:36 with a solid right hand. A left at 1:18 ? you mean the one even the biased HBO commentator's said missed ? and i just watched it in slow motion and that left uppercut missed by a mile and then JMM counters with a combination. JMM at 00:56 catches Manny Pacquiao coming in with a right hand.

You also failed to mention two other really good moments for JMM, a left uppercut at 00:31 snaps Manny Pacquiao's head back, and at 00:13 JMM throws a 3 punch combination and lands a left uppercut once again and a right hand.

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Originally Posted by porkypara

WOW,you guys have a lot of time on your hands if you can look that much into it.LOL

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by shza

Watched the replay (had watched it live too), scored it rbr this time, and still thought Pac edged it, 115-113. I thought 4 rounds were complete toss-ups though (4 and 9-11), so I could see as wide as 116-112 *either way*. Calling it a "robbery" is ridiculous and does a disservice to guys like Eraslandy Lara who actually did get robbed.

Basically, the fight, though tense, was highly uneventful in terms of action. More or less nothing happened in a number of rounds. And where there was action, there was so little that you had to decide the rounds on the basis of a couple punches.

I definitely have zero interest in seeing jmm-pac IV. Even rewatching this one was not terribly enjoyable.

pac jmm
r1 10 9 v. little landed; pac lands a couple, jmm basically nothing
r2 9 10 same - 2 ok punches from jmm are the differnce
r3 10 9 nothing happens; pac steals at the end of the round
r4 9 10 total toss-up; jmm gets a couple of body shots and one upstairs vs. 2 upstairs from pac
r5 9 10 nothing for most of the round; jmm wins clearly in last 30 seconds
r6 10 9 again v. close; pac better thru first 2 min
r7 9 10 clearest round so far
r8 9 10 fairly clear
r9 10 9 total toss-up
r10 10 9 total toss-up (pac maybe steals it in the end; really a 10-10)
r11 10 9 toss-up; marquez too negative
r12 10 9 ditto - a little clearer for pac

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Quite a few people say round 9 was close, but i thought that was a clear round for JMM. He clearly landed more combination's in that round, and landed the more eye catching punches especially the uppercuts.

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That's a Pacquiao round

Pac
Left straight @ 2:11
combination @ 1:36
Left @1:18

They traded @ 44 and @25

JMM
combination @ 1: 56
Good right hand @ 09


Terribly close round that should go to the aggressor who landed more shots.

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There was two combinations by JMM one at 1:59 and at 1:56, JMM countered Manny Pacquiao with a right hand after his combination at 1:36 with a solid right hand. A left at 1:18 ? you mean the one even the biased HBO commentator's said missed ? and i just watched it in slow motion and that left uppercut missed by a mile and then JMM counters with a combination. JMM at 00:56 catches Manny Pacquiao coming in with a right hand.

You also failed to mention two other really good moments for JMM, a left uppercut at 00:31 snaps Manny Pacquiao's head back, and at 00:13 JMM throws a 3 punch combination and lands a left uppercut once again and a right hand.

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Actually it only took me 5 minutes, he's the one been over analyzing every round. Watching one round at a time every 30 minutes or so, i have no idea how anyone could watch a fight like that and enjoy it personally.

But notice how he left out JMM's best parts of the round, and claimed Manny Pacquiao landed a left hand which clearly missed by a mile.

I maybe a JMM fan but im not biased in my scoring what so ever, if i felt JMM lost this fight legitmately i would admit it. But he landed the best punches of the fight, and Manny Pacquiao looked more cautious than normal and couldn't get off, even Freddie Roach thought he was losing.

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Originally Posted by porkypara

Only had a chance to watch the fight today,was working on Saturday night.

From what I read about the fight I was expecting Pacquiao to be totaly out classed and outfought by Marquez but instead I watched a very close fight that could have gone to either boxer.

A lot of the rounds were so close it was hard to split them and as the judges who are not encoraged to give even rounds they must have gone with PacMan because of his work rate.

A draw would have been a fair result IMO.

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Amazing how many people can't score a fight.

Reading an interview with Floyd Maywethaer Snr, he implies that he saw it as a close fight that could have gone either way and that he saw it a draw.

1) Pac 10-9
2) 10-10
3) Pac 10-9
4) Pac 10-9
5) JMM 10-9
6) JMM 10-9
7) JMM 10-9
8) JMM 10-9
9) JMM 10-9
10) JMM 10-9
11) 10-10
12) JMM 10-9
Final: 116 -113 JMM
Manny winning early with energy and speed, I just thought Marquez landed almost all the clean and effective blows from the 5th round onwards. Manny was off balance and being driven backwards by JMM’s punches. I can't even see Manny winning the 12th as I don't see him landing clean much and JMM has superior ring generalship and defense. My Card does have 2 rounds even so once again very close fight, really could have gone either way. I scored their first fight a draw and the second a one point victory for Pacquiao just as a sidenote.

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Originally Posted by ICB

There was two combinations by JMM one at 1:59 and at 1:56, JMM countered Manny Pacquiao with a right hand after his combination at 1:36 with a solid right hand. A left at 1:18 ? you mean the one even the biased HBO commentator's said missed ? and i just watched it in slow motion and that left uppercut missed by a mile and then JMM counters with a combination. JMM at 00:56 catches Manny Pacquiao coming in with a right hand.

You also failed to mention two other really good moments for JMM, a left uppercut at 00:31 snaps Manny Pacquiao's head back, and at 00:13 JMM throws a 3 punch combination and lands a left uppercut once again and a right hand.

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:)

Yeah the left at 1:18 missed.

here's what you missed:

Jmm combo @ 1:59 was blocked only 1:56 was good.

Pac right counter @ 1: 35 send JMM reeling. pls take a look :D
good combination by pac and a right by JMM @45
good combo by Juan at 31
left by Pac @23
left by Pac @18
right hand by JMM @13 ??? it was blocked


PACQUIAO Round 10-9

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by ICB

There was two combinations by JMM one at 1:59 and at 1:56, JMM countered Manny Pacquiao with a right hand after his combination at 1:36 with a solid right hand. A left at 1:18 ? you mean the one even the biased HBO commentator's said missed ? and i just watched it in slow motion and that left uppercut missed by a mile and then JMM counters with a combination. JMM at 00:56 catches Manny Pacquiao coming in with a right hand.

You also failed to mention two other really good moments for JMM, a left uppercut at 00:31 snaps Manny Pacquiao's head back, and at 00:13 JMM throws a 3 punch combination and lands a left uppercut once again and a right hand.

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:)

Yeah the left at 1:18 missed.

here's what you missed:

Jmm combo @ 1:59 was blocked only 1:56 was good.

Pac right counter @ 1: 35 send JMM reeling. pls take a look :D
good combination by pac and a right by JMM @45
good combo by Juan at 31
left by Pac @23
left by Pac @18
right hand by JMM @13 ??? it was blocked


PACQUIAO Round 10-9

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Are you two watching the same version of the fight? I read there is two with opposiing views: HBO and Primetime.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by porkypara

Only had a chance to watch the fight today,was working on Saturday night.

From what I read about the fight I was expecting Pacquiao to be totaly out classed and outfought by Marquez but instead I watched a very close fight that could have gone to either boxer.

A lot of the rounds were so close it was hard to split them and as the judges who are not encoraged to give even rounds they must have gone with PacMan because of his work rate.

A draw would have been a fair result IMO.

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Amazing how many people can't score a fight.

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What part of that dont you agree with rather than just make a statement without backing it up.

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by ICB

There was two combinations by JMM one at 1:59 and at 1:56, JMM countered Manny Pacquiao with a right hand after his combination at 1:36 with a solid right hand. A left at 1:18 ? you mean the one even the biased HBO commentator's said missed ? and i just watched it in slow motion and that left uppercut missed by a mile and then JMM counters with a combination. JMM at 00:56 catches Manny Pacquiao coming in with a right hand.

You also failed to mention two other really good moments for JMM, a left uppercut at 00:31 snaps Manny Pacquiao's head back, and at 00:13 JMM throws a 3 punch combination and lands a left uppercut once again and a right hand.

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:)

Yeah the left at 1:18 missed.

here's what you missed:

Jmm combo @ 1:59 was blocked only 1:56 was good.

Pac right counter @ 1: 35 send JMM reeling. pls take a look :D
good combination by pac and a right by JMM @45
good combo by Juan at 31
left by Pac @23
left by Pac @18
right hand by JMM @13 ??? it was blocked


PACQUIAO Round 10-9

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Look i felt it was a clear JMM round, he snapped back Manny Pacquiao's head. Landed the more eye catching punches, and was able to get off with combinations. Im not going to keep watching the same round or the same fight over and over again.

I have got better things to do than to keep analyzing over the smallest of things, i think JMM clearly won the fight he landed the best punches in the fight, your mind is clearly made up already so there's really no point.

People differ in opinion's which is fine, but i honestly can't see how people had Manny Pacquiao winning the fight. Even his own trainer Freddie Roach thought he was losing, he knew Manny Pacquiao was frustrated and couldn't get off.