Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
i agree with this
wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
i agree with this
wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds
Precisely.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
i agree with this
wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds
Ward was gassed after 10 against a plodder who is known to be extremely lazy with his output and all of a sudden that win elevates him to being the best SMW ever and beating Calzaghe. It is just fantasy talk, people are high on the fumes.
Calzaghe would have him clinching and blowing by the half way mark and then it's all one way traffic.
It would be a little like Calzaghe/Kessler in that Calzaghe would spend a couple of rounds feeling Ward out and then after 4 you have him throwing 80-90 a round and doing all kinds of awkward shit with his southpaw stance and weird combos.
Froch is slow and loads up and that played into Wards hands, Calzaghe would be all over him like a rash and the fact that Ward has no power makes it even easier for Calzaghe.
Ward is overrated. Let's see him fight Bute and even move up to LHW and clean out there. Heck, let's even see him fight Hopkins who I would take to beat him. Dawson would beat Ward too. But to build him up so much on beating Froch? It's just far too much, too soon.
It's funny cos considering froch has limitations he doesn't get tired! Also the wars froch fight was very close.
I don't think it was particularly close in that I had it 9-3 to Froch, but the way Ward started to fade late on was quite shocking to me. A great fighter doesn't fade down the stretch like that. You didn't see Calzaghe beating up on Lacy for 10 rounds and then suddenly getting all panicky and looking like he had seen a ghost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
The Froch/Ward fight hasn't impressed me all that much and in fact it only enhances my views regarding the limitations that Ward has. He has stamina issues and Calzaghe is the one person who you don't go into a fight with knowing that you are going to fade down the stretch and that fade would come far sooner as Calzaghe will force you to fight at his pace. Hopkins tried to slow him down through spoiling, but that doesn't stop you being heavily outworked. Calzaghe is still throwing more and landing more than you. Hopkins never fades down the stretch, he did badly against Calzaghe. Ward doesn't have Hopkins stamina and against both Bika and Froch he faded.
Wards stamina is his achilles heel and I don't think his chin has been proven either. And he is suddenly P4P quality and on a par with great SMW's? It's a nonsense.
Calzaghe is god himself!?
Wow!
Calzaghe is a great fighter but compared to khan, hatton and froch with taking risks he falls way down the league..and that is a huge letdown for him.
He should take a risk and come back and beat ward which he probably could but he wont because ward is not over 40.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfPrecisely.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
i agree with this
wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds
Ward was gassed after 10 against a plodder who is known to be extremely lazy with his output and all of a sudden that win elevates him to being the best SMW ever and beating Calzaghe. It is just fantasy talk, people are high on the fumes.
Calzaghe would have him clinching and blowing by the half way mark and then it's all one way traffic.
It would be a little like Calzaghe/Kessler in that Calzaghe would spend a couple of rounds feeling Ward out and then after 4 you have him throwing 80-90 a round and doing all kinds of awkward shit with his southpaw stance and weird combos.
Froch is slow and loads up and that played into Wards hands, Calzaghe would be all over him like a rash and the fact that Ward has no power makes it even easier for Calzaghe.
Ward is overrated. Let's see him fight Bute and even move up to LHW and clean out there. Heck, let's even see him fight Hopkins who I would take to beat him. Dawson would beat Ward too. But to build him up so much on beating Froch? It's just far too much, too soon.
Brief digression for a reality check: Do you think the 2007 Kessler would beat Ward?
You can actually see the effectiveness of Ward in some of the arguments his detractors posit against him. First, he makes a fighter look really bad; then, the fact that the fighter looked bad is taken as evidence that Ward isn't that good. Don't kid yourself; the Kessler that Calzaghe beat isn't significantly different than the Kessler that Ward beat two years later.
No way should Calzaghe come back to fight Ward. He has been out too long and his style isn't for an old fighter. Calzaghe did well to even be going at 36. People talk about Jones and Hopkins being too old, but it was Calzaghe who always had the young man style. Massive output and stamina and to still have it at 36 was remarkable. Show me Khan, Hatton or Froch at 36.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Calzaghe was the man for a decade and who else was he supposed to beat? People pick on Calzaghe, but bar Sven Ottke he beat everyone on the radar.
I think he has the better tools and would do a better job than what he did. So perhaps, but I am less certain than I am with Calzaghe because Calzaghe is such a leap above Kessler. Kessler of then and Ward today are much more equal, but which side of the pendulum it's hard to tell exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXXQuote:
Originally Posted by GandalfPrecisely.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
i agree with this
wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds
Ward was gassed after 10 against a plodder who is known to be extremely lazy with his output and all of a sudden that win elevates him to being the best SMW ever and beating Calzaghe. It is just fantasy talk, people are high on the fumes.
Calzaghe would have him clinching and blowing by the half way mark and then it's all one way traffic.
It would be a little like Calzaghe/Kessler in that Calzaghe would spend a couple of rounds feeling Ward out and then after 4 you have him throwing 80-90 a round and doing all kinds of awkward shit with his southpaw stance and weird combos.
Froch is slow and loads up and that played into Wards hands, Calzaghe would be all over him like a rash and the fact that Ward has no power makes it even easier for Calzaghe.
Ward is overrated. Let's see him fight Bute and even move up to LHW and clean out there. Heck, let's even see him fight Hopkins who I would take to beat him. Dawson would beat Ward too. But to build him up so much on beating Froch? It's just far too much, too soon.
Brief digression for a reality check: Do you think the 2007 Kessler would beat Ward?
I also think the Kessler of today would do better in rematch with Ward because we all know exactly what Ward is about. I think there is little doubt that Kessler took Ward lightly and was flummoxed by the dirty tactics. He would be aware, but Kessler needs to be active for us to truly evaluate what he still is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
kessler has gone way down hill
Who's Ward supposed to beat? Obviously, we can't assess his longevity for a while, but just in the last 2 1/2 years, he's beaten Miranda, Kessler, Green, Abraham, Bika, and Froch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Yeah! Kessler is Kessler! Come on guys!... Use your headQuote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
Cos unlike Calzaghe, Ward sure as fuck used his! :D
Really? Based on what? Because other than Ward, he's beaten everyone put in front of him since Calzaghe (including Froch), most by knockout. Or maybe he just looks like he's gone way downhill because Ward made him look that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX
kessler has gone way down hill
I think Kessler deserves a rematch. Bute would be a logical fight. Also Hopkins and maybe down the line a fight with Chad Dawson.Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXXWho's Ward supposed to beat? Obviously, we can't assess his longevity for a while, but just in the last 2 1/2 years, he's beaten Miranda, Kessler, Green, Abraham, Bika, and Froch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Well, which is it? I thought the Calzaghe win over Kessler was more impressive because that was the undefeated, confident Kessler; but now Kessler lost to Ward because he was too confident? Perhaps Kessler was too confident for the Calzaghe fight, and would have beaten him in a rematch (yeah, that's a joke, but seriously, neither Kessler nor Froch belongs on the Ward/Calzaghe discussion. They're both markedly worse than Calzaghe and Ward. Let's be serious).Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfI think he has the better tools and would do a better job than what he did. So perhaps, but I am less certain than I am with Calzaghe because Calzaghe is such a leap above Kessler. Kessler of then and Ward today are much more equal, but which side of the pendulum it's hard to tell exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by LobowolfXXXQuote:
Originally Posted by GandalfPrecisely.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
i agree with this
wards runs out of steam, it would be one way traffic in the championship rounds
Ward was gassed after 10 against a plodder who is known to be extremely lazy with his output and all of a sudden that win elevates him to being the best SMW ever and beating Calzaghe. It is just fantasy talk, people are high on the fumes.
Calzaghe would have him clinching and blowing by the half way mark and then it's all one way traffic.
It would be a little like Calzaghe/Kessler in that Calzaghe would spend a couple of rounds feeling Ward out and then after 4 you have him throwing 80-90 a round and doing all kinds of awkward shit with his southpaw stance and weird combos.
Froch is slow and loads up and that played into Wards hands, Calzaghe would be all over him like a rash and the fact that Ward has no power makes it even easier for Calzaghe.
Ward is overrated. Let's see him fight Bute and even move up to LHW and clean out there. Heck, let's even see him fight Hopkins who I would take to beat him. Dawson would beat Ward too. But to build him up so much on beating Froch? It's just far too much, too soon.
Brief digression for a reality check: Do you think the 2007 Kessler would beat Ward?
I also think the Kessler of today would do better in rematch with Ward because we all know exactly what Ward is about. I think there is little doubt that Kessler took Ward lightly and was flummoxed by the dirty tactics. He would be aware, but Kessler needs to be active for us to truly evaluate what he still is.
Calzaghe beat Kessler clearly and comfortably, but he didn't "destroy" him, and he wouldn't have destroyed Ward, who is faster, more versatile, and just all-around better than Kessler. Of course, I think that it's equally silly to think that a prime Ward (which we may not have seen yet) would "destroy" a prime Calzaghe. Personally, I think it'd be a hell of a fight, and if they fought three times, I think 2-1 one way or the other is more likely than 3-0.