Re: the "real"greatest Heavyweight!
I try not to get involved in greatest HW of all time discussion.
There's no possible way to decide. Klitschko has been great in his era but his massive size advantage has helped.
Ali was great, Frazier was great, 4man ;) was great. It's all like formula 1 to me. Give all the teams the same engine, budget etc and leave it to the teams to find an advantage and let the drivers race. The most skilled would win. Completely different sports I know but the fact I'm making is If Klitschko was was Ali's size would he beat him? doubt it.
Smaller men will of course overcome bigger guys sometimes, it has to happen it's just the way it goes but many of Klitschkos opponents just haven't been able to reach him, if Klitschkos opponents were the same size as them I'm sure they would have tasted defeat more than they have.
Re: the "real"greatest Heavyweight!
Ok people, my take on this : I don't consider Vitali as the best ever, but I am confident that he could hold his own against most best HWY's . I think Ali , Holmes ,Prime Lewis, would have a tough time against him, but would come out victorious . This is of course asuming Vitali is in his prime also. I think Vitali would beat Fraizer, Foreman ,Tyson, Holyfield , Marciano, Louis, Dempsey, and many other great HWY's . Too bad he fights in an era that there are no fighters that can really challenge him, and his brother
Re: the "real"greatest Heavyweight!
I pretty much agree, except about Lewis. Lewis wasn't even close to his prime or even in shape against Vitali and 'tough time' was the best vitali walked away with then.
In his Prime Lewis would have only found it less tough.
Re: the "real"greatest Heavyweight!
Edit: oh and I think COULD beat Tyson/Holyfield etc might be more fitting.
WOULD could only be said if he could be measured against better fighters... and he can't.
Re: the "real"greatest Heavyweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigstinkybug
*I'll argue this..and stand by it... i believe the greatest heavyweight of all time is ... VITALI KLISTSKO.
*Vitali is the only heavyweight in history to never trail in a fight. How is that? it's not luck..when ur the best, crazy stats appear..this is one.
*Vitali could easily be undefeated. He was waaaaay ahead when the Byrd happened... the guy tore his rotator cuff...
*in his fight with Lennox... IMO, Lennox was out on his feet.
Vitali is 25 pounds heavier than big George Forman was when he was terrorizing the heavyweight div in the 70's. For those who think Frazier, Holmes, Marciano, Evander, could beat Vitali... i tell u this... and i can already tell this is a smart forum with smart fight fans in it... i tell u this... can u really see a guy who weighs under 215 pounds beating Vitali Klitsko... just picture that in ur head Vitali is a beast. He's a heavyweight's worst nightmare... a 250 pounds guy who can go 15 rounds.
LASTLY... if ur a fan of "rocky"like all true boxing fans are... when the "russian " character made, he was a force..bigger than life... a fiction of imagination... Well, i pick Vitai to beat him. Vitali looks bigger, stronger and would beat Drago as well...
bring it on... im ready for all comers!
Red writing is a shit to read.
Re: the "real"greatest Heavyweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andre
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigstinkybug
*I'll argue this..and stand by it... i believe the greatest heavyweight of all time is ... VITALI KLISTSKO.
*Vitali is the only heavyweight in history to never trail in a fight. How is that? it's not luck..when ur the best, crazy stats appear..this is one.
*Vitali could easily be undefeated. He was waaaaay ahead when the Byrd happened... the guy tore his rotator cuff...
*in his fight with Lennox... IMO, Lennox was out on his feet.
Vitali is 25 pounds heavier than big George Forman was when he was terrorizing the heavyweight div in the 70's. For those who think Frazier, Holmes, Marciano, Evander, could beat Vitali... i tell u this... and i can already tell this is a smart forum with smart fight fans in it... i tell u this... can u really see a guy who weighs under 215 pounds beating Vitali Klitsko... just picture that in ur head Vitali is a beast. He's a heavyweight's worst nightmare... a 250 pounds guy who can go 15 rounds.
LASTLY... if ur a fan of "rocky"like all true boxing fans are... when the "russian " character made, he was a force..bigger than life... a fiction of imagination... Well, i pick Vitai to beat him. Vitali looks bigger, stronger and would beat Drago as well...
bring it on... im ready for all comers!
Red writing is a shit to read.
That particular piece is shit to read irrespective of the colour.
Re: the "real"greatest Heavyweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigstinkybug
*I'll argue this..and stand by it... i believe the greatest heavyweight of all time is ... VITALI KLISTSKO.
*Vitali is the only heavyweight in history to never trail in a fight. How is that? it's not luck..when ur the best, crazy stats appear..this is one.
*Vitali could easily be undefeated. He was waaaaay ahead when the Byrd happened... the guy tore his rotator cuff...
*in his fight with Lennox... IMO, Lennox was out on his feet.
Vitali is 25 pounds heavier than big George Forman was when he was terrorizing the heavyweight div in the 70's. For those who think Frazier, Holmes, Marciano, Evander, could beat Vitali... i tell u this... and i can already tell this is a smart forum with smart fight fans in it... i tell u this... can u really see a guy who weighs under 215 pounds beating Vitali Klitsko... just picture that in ur head Vitali is a beast. He's a heavyweight's worst nightmare... a 250 pounds guy who can go 15 rounds.
LASTLY... if ur a fan of "rocky"like all true boxing fans are... when the "russian " character made, he was a force..bigger than life... a fiction of imagination... Well, i pick Vitai to beat him. Vitali looks bigger, stronger and would beat Drago as well...
bring it on... im ready for all comers!
I think taking punches that detroy your face and need the fight to be stopped for your safety constituties 'being behind in a fight'
Lewis TK06 - Fact
Re: the "real"greatest Heavyweight!
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Vitali would not even rule Marciano's era.
No adamek, hopkins and haye would.
Re: the "real"greatest Heavyweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
roberto duran legend
Quote:
Originally Posted by
frankenfrank
Vitali would have been 2 much 4 Ali , Holmes and Louis but would have found prime Oliver McCall , prime George 4man 2 much 4 him . Now imagine what would have happened if he fought a trained and motivated SNV , d 1 that was never observed .
I do agree on Vitali > Ali , Holmes , Louis , "Dempsey" , Wladimir , Rocco and Jack Johnson , but McCall and 4man were real men , especially McCall .
I also believe that prime Bowe and Lewis could have posed a real test 4 Vitali . Lewis would have probably cheated like he did with Michael Grant . I wonder Y he didn't do d same with Vitali , but that was Lewis' last fight and he might have been 2 weak 2 repeat it .
Vitali is better than Ali,but not a prime McCall, Lordy Lordy,
i have heard it all now.:rolleyes:
No he's better than both of them yet still the 2nd best in his family.
Mcall SD loss to norris
Mcall UD loss to gomez.
Klitschko KO 1 norris.
Klitschko TKO 9 gomez.
Re: the "real"greatest Heavyweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Quote:
Originally Posted by
roberto duran legend
Quote:
Originally Posted by
frankenfrank
Vitali would have been 2 much 4 Ali , Holmes and Louis but would have found prime Oliver McCall , prime George 4man 2 much 4 him . Now imagine what would have happened if he fought a trained and motivated SNV , d 1 that was never observed .
I do agree on Vitali > Ali , Holmes , Louis , "Dempsey" , Wladimir , Rocco and Jack Johnson , but McCall and 4man were real men , especially McCall .
I also believe that prime Bowe and Lewis could have posed a real test 4 Vitali . Lewis would have probably cheated like he did with Michael Grant . I wonder Y he didn't do d same with Vitali , but that was Lewis' last fight and he might have been 2 weak 2 repeat it .
Vitali is better than Ali,but not a prime McCall, Lordy Lordy,
i have heard it all now.:rolleyes:
No he's better than both of them yet still the 2nd best in his family.
Mcall SD loss to norris
Mcall UD loss to gomez.
Klitschko KO 1 norris.
Klitschko TKO 9 gomez.
old Lewis TKO6 prime Vitali
McCall TKO2 prime Lewis
Sanders TKO2 Wladimir
Puritty TKO11 Wladimir
Vitali TKO8 Sanders
Vitali TKO11 Puritty
Re: the "real"greatest Heavyweight!
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Alot of people love to bring up vitali achievements against an old fat lennox lewis and still lost!
Let me just destroy you...
36 yo Lennox Lewis, 5 lbs overweight on a SHW frame, who was 6 months removed from his greatest win. He was training for a superHW, Kirki Johnson, whose huge frame and hugtactics often smothered his opponents.
11 days b4 the fight with Johnson, Vitali was called to take the fight. Lewis saw Vitali as a tall, robotic, THIN, fighter whom he could push around the ring with ease, and decided NOT to drop the 5 extra lbs.
Lewis' cornrows, combined with his thumbing and his lace scraping opened up several vaginas on Vitali's face that night. While Vitali was dominating Lewis in the fight, Lennox, knew to focus on those vaginas and he could narrowly escape with his title.
He was not OLD. He was not shot. He was NOT faded. He was NOT fat. He was 36/37, and coming off his finest performance. Some would call that prime. Nobody, except the minority K2 fans, expected Lewis to have ANY trouble with Vitali.
H2H, and AT, Vitali=/<Lewis
Sadly, Lewis chose to leave boxing at 37 with his tail between his legs, but while he was fighting he fought the best, and only ducked 1 fighter, Corrie Sanders. Sadly Vitali quit vs Byrd when he could have single handedly earned a UD. Even sadder, his doctors misdiagnosed his L5/S1 protrusion causing his sciatica, and mistakenly called it a hamstring injury, causing 2 delays of his Rahman fight, and eventual retirement.
Time went on and the division was fine w/o him. Wlad regained his confidence and beat all comers, while Vitali entered the political arena. After 4 years absent from fighting, Vitali came back into the ring to destroy 250lb WBC champ sam peter, and has barely lost a round since!
We are witnessing history being made. Sit back and enjoy, because in 100 yrs our great great chandchildren will be talking about the brothers Klitschko and how boxing will never see such domination again.
Futhermore, Lewis literally threw himself backward onto his stool, looking an almost spent fighter, it seemed poised for a 7th round of enormous significance, and then, suddenly, it was over, as the doctor ruled Vitali unfit to continue. There was some confusion for a time as to whom the winner was, the referee had held Lewis' arm up, but there appeared to be some debate as to whether the initial cut, which had ultimately resulted in the stoppage were caused by a butt, or a punch.
Had the cut been ruled the result of a butt, the fight would have gone to the scorecards, and Vitali, who was two points ahead on all 3 cards, would have been the new lineal heavyweight champion of the world. As it was, it was deemed to have been the result of a punch, and Lewis retained his title.
To clear up any possible controversy, it was to my mind a perfectly reasonable and necessary stoppage because it could have interfered with his career and vitali went onto become a great champion. Let me also add that lewis at the time was looking at fighting for another 2 years at least just before the klitschko fight (I have the extract if you want it? He was believe it or not chasing a potential fight with roy jones!) The WBC then put lewis on the spot and announced that it will strip him of the belt if he lets pass a March 15 deadline to sign for a rematch with Klitschko, the mandatory contender. He chose to reire. Owned. Lewis also relinquished his IBF belt rather than fight SOUTHPAW (lewis never fought southpaws) chris byrd too...a natural fight to make around the early 00's! Lenny was a clever man.....He probably capitalised on bowes implosion, waited for holy/tyson to age and ran out of the klitschko era quicker than an ostrich!!
Re: the "real"greatest Heavyweight!
@THE PHILOSOPHER - You're leaving out some key points of this story. Vitali had a huge advantage in that fight. This is why...
Lewis was already considering retirement, he hadn't fought in a year, and the original bill was a Tyson/Lewis doubleheader to set up a possible rematch. Tyson pulled out so Vitali was put on the bill against Cedric Boswell. The bill went from HBO PPV to regular TV. Then Johnson pulled out which meant Lewis would have lost a shit load of money for a bill he wasn't just headlining but part promoting. So Lewis offered Vitali the chance to save the bill. Vitali's reputation was poor in the States because of his "quit" against Byrd.
Vitali had NOTHING to lose!!!
He got a chance to redeem himself and become THE man. Lewis had ZERO to gain.
In the end - Lewis won fair and square and Vitali's reputation was restored/boosted. And that's all she wrote.
Re: the "real"greatest Heavyweight!
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Lewis was already considering retirement,
Here are the exact quotes from Lewis and Steward from 2003:
Jones, the WBA champion, now seems to be Lewis’s long-term target. “We’ll just keep fighting guys until the big fight with Roy Jones comes up and I think it will happen eventually,” Emanuel Steward, Lewis’s trainer, said.
Oh dear....
Lewis: Weight 250 +
height 6′ 5″
reach 84″
Jones: Weight 199
height 5′ 11″
reach 74″
lol.
And 11 days notice is hardly a fitting amount of time for unranked vitali to prepare for lewis, boswell is not lewis!!
Re: the "real"greatest Heavyweight!
@THE PHILOSOPHER
Not sure what relevance you think that Manny Steward quote has? Roy Jones was a possible big money fight although serious negotiations never happened (even Roy said Lennox was too big for him after beating Ruiz). It was in Steward's best interests that Lewis continued (huge paydays).
Here are quotes from Lewis on retirement in 2003 - Speculation has been mounting over the last six months that Lewis will retire from the sport altogether rather than step back into the ring. "Retirement - that is an option for me. It's certainly tempting. I really need a fight to make me feel the desire to go through all the training," said Lewis. "It has to get me excited. At this point I'm not excited by anyone."
Here's a quote from Steward in 2003 after Lewis made the Johnson fight - "Lennox can only lose through complacency, he can go on until 40, he will KO Johnson, Vitali, Roy Jones"
Lewis had 11 days to prepare for Vitali, Kirk Johnson was certainly not Vitali. They were in the same boat except Lewis no longer had a serious desire to fight whereas Vitali had everything to gain.
