Re: Wladimir Klitschko passes Larry Holmes to become the 2nd longest-reigning HW cham
Like others have pointed out, until hes undisputed he is no where near.
Who has had the most successfull undisputed title defences? That would be more truthfull. To be able to hold on to the titles and defend them is a major feat given the schedule youd have to fight to sort your mandatories etc.
In fact, Holmes never held more than one title even though they were all abailable to him, so he shouldnt be credited with his reign either. Fighting only one organisations ranked fighters isnt the same as having to fight everyone to hold on to your titles. The first time he fought for all 3 was when he was knocked out by Tyson.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko passes Larry Holmes to become the 2nd longest-reigning HW cham
Any day now.......
Larry will go on record saying that Wladimir Klitschko couldn't carry his jock.
Then he'll go on to say the Klitschko's only get all the attention because they're white.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko passes Larry Holmes to become the 2nd longest-reigning HW cham
Gotta give credit where credit is due.
Wlad is now easily within the top 7 and arguably top 5 all time.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko passes Larry Holmes to become the 2nd longest-reigning HW cham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonBomb
Gotta give credit where credit is due.
Wlad is now easily within the top 7 and arguably top 5 all time.
Wlad has never even been undisputed and until he beats his brother or his brother retires, he cant be regarded as the undisputed best of this era.
It would be better for Wlads career if Vitali just retired and let Fury, Pulev, Haye etc fight for the vacant title and then try and win that title. That would be the cherry on top for his career.
As it is, he's just been one of the belt holders, he's never been the only belt holder.
Mike Tyson gets shit but he managed to unify all the titles and keep them together for 6 successfull defences, he lost them in the 7th.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko passes Larry Holmes to become the 2nd longest-reigning HW cham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
I think number of title defenses is more impressive than actual length... Larry still has 6 over Wlad!
Absolutely.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko passes Larry Holmes to become the 2nd longest-reigning HW cham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonBomb
Gotta give credit where credit is due.
Wlad is now easily within the top 7 and arguably top 5 all time.
Wlad has never even been undisputed and until he beats his brother or his brother retires, he cant be regarded as the undisputed best of this era.
It would be better for Wlads career if Vitali just retired and let Fury, Pulev, Haye etc fight for the vacant title and then try and win that title. That would be the cherry on top for his career.
As it is, he's just been one of the belt holders, he's never been the only belt holder.
Mike Tyson gets shit but he managed to unify all the titles and keep them together for 6 successfull defences, he lost them in the 7th.
When was Holmes ever undisputed?
They aren't going to fight and I agree that Vitali should just retire ... then Wlad would get a chance to become undisputed.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko passes Larry Holmes to become the 2nd longest-reigning HW cham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonBomb
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonBomb
Gotta give credit where credit is due.
Wlad is now easily within the top 7 and arguably top 5 all time.
Wlad has never even been undisputed and until he beats his brother or his brother retires, he cant be regarded as the undisputed best of this era.
It would be better for Wlads career if Vitali just retired and let Fury, Pulev, Haye etc fight for the vacant title and then try and win that title. That would be the cherry on top for his career.
As it is, he's just been one of the belt holders, he's never been the only belt holder.
Mike Tyson gets shit but he managed to unify all the titles and keep them together for 6 successfull defences, he lost them in the 7th.
When was Holmes ever undisputed?
They aren't going to fight and I agree that Vitali should just retire ... then Wlad would get a chance to become undisputed.
This is what iv just been saying.....
Holmes hasnt been the undisputed best. Tyson is the only fighter to have to have as many as 6 successfull defences of all the belts since Ali.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko passes Larry Holmes to become the 2nd longest-reigning HW cham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
This is what iv just been saying.....
Holmes hasnt been the undisputed best. Tyson is the only fighter to have to have as many as 6 successfull defences of all the belts since Ali.
To be 'Undisputed' by definition you need to be unchallenged. To the best of my knowledge, NO fighter has been 'Undisputed' Champion.
What Holmes was, what Tyson was, what Douglas, Holyfield, Bowe et al were, are 'Generally recognized' World Champions.
When Holmes beat Ali, with his W over Weaver to back it up, The Black Cloud became the 'Generally recognized' Champ, a Lineage was formed, and when Tyson beat Spinks, he won the mantle. Tyson also had the WBA, WBC and IBF belts at the time, but even then the WBO were making money selling their trinket to the likes of Damiani...
Re: Wladimir Klitschko passes Larry Holmes to become the 2nd longest-reigning HW cham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Britkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
This is what iv just been saying.....
Holmes hasnt been the undisputed best. Tyson is the only fighter to have to have as many as 6 successfull defences of all the belts since Ali.
To be 'Undisputed' by definition you need to be unchallenged. To the best of my knowledge, NO fighter has been 'Undisputed' Champion.
What Holmes was, what Tyson was, what Douglas, Holyfield, Bowe et al were, are 'Generally recognized' World Champions.
When Holmes beat Ali, with his W over Weaver to back it up, The Black Cloud became the 'Generally recognized' Champ, a Lineage was formed, and when Tyson beat Spinks, he won the mantle. Tyson also had the WBA, WBC and IBF belts at the time, but even then the WBO were making money selling their trinket to the likes of Damiani...
Bullshit.
We all know how hard it is for a fighter to keep just one title nowadays because of mandatories being forced. Imagine having the 3 main belts and managing to fullfill all your obligations to be able to hold on to the titles and make 6 defences of all 3 titles. This is why people will always say "we need another Mike Tyson" you want hear people begging for another Holmes...
The lineage means nothing when the lineal holder was beaten in 91 seconds. Holding on to something after winning it is just as impressive as the win. Look at Douglas, he was a flash in the pan for 1 fight where the opponent was infamously not training. Beating 6 random, vague fighters because they are in one sancioning bodies rankings is nothing compared to having to clear out a division while holding all 3 major belts
Re: Wladimir Klitschko passes Larry Holmes to become the 2nd longest-reigning HW cham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Holding on to something after winning it is just as impressive as the win. Look at Douglas, he was a flash in the pan for 1 fight where the opponent was infamously not training.
Agreed...
Now Holmes after beating Ali made 12 defences before losing. Tyson made how many after beating Spinks before losing to that "flash in the pan"?
Re: Wladimir Klitschko passes Larry Holmes to become the 2nd longest-reigning HW cham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Britkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Holding on to something after winning it is just as impressive as the win. Look at Douglas, he was a flash in the pan for 1 fight where the opponent was infamously not training.
Agreed...
Now Holmes after beating Ali made 12 defences before losing. Tyson made how many after beating Spinks before losing to that
"flash in the pan"?
Holmes only held one title, there was 2 others available to him;)
He dropped the WBC to fight for the new IBF but even then he still had 3 titles to fight for. He also could have won the WBA but he didnt. Mike made the effort to clean it all up. He could probably gone on another few wins had he picked and chosen easy mandatories like Holmes did rather than clean up the division and leave it with one champion with no arguments.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko passes Larry Holmes to become the 2nd longest-reigning HW cham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
I wonder if he will overtake Louis
He cant.
Whos better Vitali or Wlad?
No one knows, they wont fight each other. Ntil Vitali fucks off and Wlad can win all 3 titles, hes not proper unified and his defences are as worthless as Holmes.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko passes Larry Holmes to become the 2nd longest-reigning HW cham
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Holmes only held one title, there was 2 others available to him;)
He dropped the WBC to fight for the new IBF but even then he still had 3 titles to fight for. He also could have won the WBA but he didnt. Mike made the effort to clean it all up. He could probably gone on another few wins had he picked and chosen easy mandatories like Holmes did rather than clean up the division and leave it with one champion with no arguments.
There was more than two titles available to Holmes, what about the WAA crown?
You say Tyson 'made the effort' to clean up the division, but I see no WBO or WAA crown on his resume. And why was that? Because the titles were pointless to him, as after beating Spinks, most knew he was Champ. Same with Holmes, once Ali was beaten most knew he was Champ, there was no point fighting for more alphabet rubbish.
So this brings us back to how many succcesful defences both made; Holmes made 12; Tyson 2...
But still, that is two more than Wlad!
