ESPN 1st Take- Sugar Ray Leonard says he would beat Money Mayweather in their primes.

These threads can only create arguments. There is no way to resolve the top greats from different eras. Name one all timer who will admit they would lose to another fighter. Everybody has an opinion and so did Ray Leonard's brother...who told Ray himself that Floyd is the guy he can't see him beating. So should pro-Floyd guys take that as fact? Its just an opinion. And my opinion, just one man's opinion, is that in a heads up fight Ray Leonard would win most times, something like 3 of 5, but not necessarily the first fight. Floyd adapts quickly and better. Also, the anti-Floyd guys are actually complimenting Floyd because a lot of people say Duran was too small to truly compare head to head against Ray and the bunch but Floyd became champ at 130 and basically maxes out at WW and we compare him to the all timers who basically started at WW and maxed out much higher. Fair play and compliments would compare Ray Leonard in a head to head fight with Bob Foster, Roy Jones Jr, Bernard Hopkins, Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Michael Spinks, etc. The all time scale is way too difficult to be giving up significant size and us pretending like its each guy's best weight.

I think that Oscar fight showed that a prime Oscar would have beaten Floyd.

A prime Leonard probably stops him very late.

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Originally Posted by Hulk

I think that Oscar fight showed that a prime Oscar would have beaten Floyd

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Are you kidding me? Shane beat Oscar at 147. Floyd was pretty much forced to weigh in at 150.
The 135 Floyd is better then the 135 Oscar and that was Oscars prime. Oscar went to 147 because he could no longer make weight. The totem pole of names makes little difference. Oscar was at his best at 135/140. Floyd beats him at either weight and he's a prime welter.

I watched Sr vs Leonard coincidentally like 2 days ago. What I took away from that.

1)Srs right arms really was hurt as he claims. There were portions of the fight he left it dangling straight down, useless. Not playing possum or trying to get out of the fight but clearly injured. There were times he had Leonard tied up with his left with his right arm free to punch or defend but still it dangled straight down. You don't do that unless there is a genuine injury.

2)Sr took a couple rounds off Leonard

3)Leonard was a bit confounded by the style causing Cosell to ask repeatedly what was wrong with Leonard

4)Sr was a very clever fighter but didn't have 1/3 Jrs ability

5)all Leonard could get through was his left hook

You'd have to favor Leonard but anyone saying they are sure either way is talking out their ass.

I really don't know who would win but I suspect the bookies would have Leonard as the favourite.

Sugar would unravel him over about 10 or 11 rounds.

You need a jab to have any chance and beating Floyd and not just a flea flicker but a world class jab and Ray had one.
You need to be able to keep up with Floyd at the very least in the speed department and Ray was probably faster then he is.
Combination punching. Floyd has barely had a punch landed flush on him even in the fights he struggled in like Castillo 1 or Oscar. Ray would land on him and often. I dont think anyone has ever come close to landing a 2 or 3 punch combination on Floyd. Leonard would and what would the effects of that one certainty be?
Activity levels. Its one thing to keep some of the guys he's fought at bay he has fought by being tricky and working behind that shoulder, turning them with your feet and countering from some check angles and throwing a punch here and a punch there.
Quite another to be able to pull that off with a guy like Ray with his matching speed, punch output and selection along with crisp 3 and 4 punch combinations.

In most cases its Floyds opponents the end up looking like a deer in the headlights but I think the roles would be reversed in this hypothetical.

And just for ones viewing pleasure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYNEp7qjQQ4

ImInuit, I like your perception of what it takes against Floyd. I just can't help but look at Sr vs Ray. One of the immediate necessities is a good jab. Sr took Rays jab away to the point he stopped throwing it. If Sr could do that he could tell Floyd how to.

I bet this fight would defy the odds and shock us all turning into a cracker. Remember SRL whether Floyd will admit it or not IS Floyds idol. He knows SRL inside and out and he would definitely be out to prove to his idol he's worthy.

Too many variables for certainty

Floyd is a phenomenal fighter n ATG boxer. No doubt. That being said, he is small at welter n Ray was at his best at that weight. He had too much offense n too many weapons to lose to Floyd, although Floyd would give him some issues with his speed, defense, n boxing ability. Ray could match Floyd in speed n boxing ability, but is the clear superior in strength, power, n most importantly, toughness. Floyd never had to face talents in their prime on the level of Benitez, Duran. Hearns, or Hagler. Floyd is an ATG but in my opinion welter is not his best weight n he would lose to guys like Robinsin, Leonard, n Hearns. I think his best fights would be at 135/140 vs guys like Whitaker, Duran, n Pryor.

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

ImInuit, I like your perception of what it takes against Floyd. I just can't help but look at Sr vs Ray. One of the immediate necessities is a good jab. Sr took Rays jab away to the point he stopped throwing it. If Sr could do that he could tell Floyd how to.

I bet this fight would defy the odds and shock us all turning into a cracker. Remember SRL whether Floyd will admit it or not IS Floyds idol. He knows SRL inside and out and he would definitely be out to prove to his idol he's worthy.

Too many variables for certainty

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That is a fair point but I never said that it would be easy or that he would not have any trouble. He admitted after the Benitez fight that he had never missed so many punches so I would think the comments would be fairly similar following a Floyd fight.

Sure he had some issues with Senior but what people seem to have forgotten is that he also beat the snot out of him. The toughest fight Ray ever had was against my boy Tommy Hearns. Not only did he completely out box Ray for 14 rounds but he landed cleaner, more effective and at a much higher percentage. Tommy took advantage of the freak reach unlike Paul Williams who fought like he had Hattons wingspan.

But Floyd is not Tommy Hearns, nor does he fight anything like him. He may be the best fighter I have ever seen off the back foot but he would be doing it for the entire fight with Rays offensive minded style, speed, combo's etc. The countering foundation that Floyd has built his style around simply wont be enough against Ray Leonard.

Comparing opponents is ridiculous,its like comparing Ali v Wlad, as i said ridiculous.
Mayweather best opponent was Cotto. Come on,Sugar would destroy the guy.

Ray beat His Dad in His 14th Fight.

its hard for me to see mayweather winning but it could happen. unlike most people, i actually feel that mayweather got better as he went up in weight mainly because i feel like he was smarter. i kind of liken it to ali before and after he ban. a younger ali was faster, but an old ali was smarter. the weight isnt an issue either in this fight because during leonards WW days, they were same day weigh ins and he wouldnt have weighed too far above the limit. he probably wouldnt have outweighed mayweather by more than 5 pounds at the most.

anyways, leonard would have definitely missed a lot of shots. the thing though is that ray was a smart fighter. although floyd is great at adjusting to his opponent, leonard is pretty good at it too. i dont see him fighting dumb and trying to rush mayweather with flurries. i think that he stays on the outside and wins rounds by being more active. he would force mayweather to come out of his shell or lose by sitting on the ropes. i dont see leonard KOing him, but i see him winning comfortably although not easily.

I think the difference would be Sugar Ray's punch power mixed in with his accuracy. Mayweather has accuracy and speed, primarily, but Sugar Ray had a perfect mix of accuracy, power and speed.

Mayweather would win on the speed aspect, but not by much. Sugar Ray wins in the physical department in everything else IN ADDITION TO the aggression.

Ring smarts and mental talent, I would say Mayweather may have a smaller edge, but not by much. I would give the ring smarts and intelligence a 52 to 48 edge, which ain't much when a guy is bone tired and hurt.

I would have loved to see this fight in a 15 round title bout.
:cool:

Well to be fair who is the best guy Mayweather has beat at 147 i dont really see to many greats on the resume its kinda of weak one. If 135 is his best weight then you saying JLC beat a prime Mayweather and had a close rematch with him i am not sure that is Mayweather's best weight. Leonard was only in his 14 fight when he fought his dad and beat his ass bad. Leonard's power and speed would make a huge different in the fight plus he may not be as good in the defense but i fell he is leagues ahead in the offense department. I mean he adjusted to some of the greatest fighters to ever step foot in a ring.