Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silkeyjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
For sure, a cut from a punch should never be used as an excuse for any fight imo. It's a credit to the fighter who caused it, how else can you look at it.
I thought Matthyse actually ran Garcia pretty close though, after thinking he might even get stopped around when the cut happened. Can't think of anyone I'd rather see Garcia fight at 140 than him again.
I don't really agree with this. The punches that cause most bad cut are grazing blows that aren't hurtful and they just slice you open. Its not blind luck as it's boxing but it's not what a guy is trying to do when he throws a punch. I think they both deserve rematches, Rosado more so. However have very little interest in a rematch, mainly cz Rosado can't win. Did u see those scorecards?
I think guys can aim to cut in the very same way a swelling or previous cuts can be targeted, absolutely no doubt about it.
Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
I tend to think in both cases that cut/eye closing changed the outcomes of the fights.
What exactly did you see in that fight that made you think Matthysse would have won?
I thought Garcia proved that not only could he outbox Matthysse, but he could stand up to his power. Matthysse hit Garcia with some shots that IMO would have knocked out 95% of the JR WW division, but Garcia took them like a champ.
First, I want to make clear I don't think Garcia is obligated to do a rematch. I also am a big Matthysse fan and have already admitted to sour grapes on this fight. It was a tough fight and Garcia escaped with a win. If he wants to move on to tougher challengers, so be it. There are plenty of good fights for him that don't involve Matthysse including the Broner/Maidana winner, the Thurman/Karass winner, and Brooks. However, those fights are all at 147. At 140, outside of Lundy with the Philly angle, I'm not sure who else there is for Garcia to fight, other than a rematch.
In my opinion though, the welt grew in the 7th round. Prior to the _th round, I had the fight close. I thought he was getting to Garcia in the later rounds, especially when he knocked Garcia's mouthpiece out of his mouth and Weeks stepped in to get the mouthpiece, giving Matthysse time to recuperate. If he had both eyes, I'm not sure how that round would have ended. I thought I saw both guys make adjustments, but when the eye close, it appeared to me that Matthysse was beginning to adjust, and the closed eye ruined the momentum.
I also thought Garcia fought dirty. I thought he hit low and frequently held when the fight was in close. He was called for a point in the 11th round, but how many times did Weeks warn him before he took a point? With a different referee and without the closed eye, I think the fight goes differently.
Does every close fight deserve a rematch? No way. But, fights where there is an argument that the outcome changed due to a cut/closed eye, to me have more grounds for rematches.
Basically, :footinmouth:
Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome
i wouldnt use the word DESERVE because that can get kind of sticky. i think that both of them could rematch and it wouldnt be a bad thing, but saying they deserve a rematch is almost like saying that the winner then owes them a rematch which i dont think is true. both fights were won fairly.
i think that a garcia/matthysse fight could be great down the road because i believe that both can still win a few more matches and raise their stocks again to make a bigger rematch.
i dont think that quillin will ever rematch rosado because quillin is on the high road and rosado is just known as a tough fighter. there is really no reason for quillin to give rosado a rematch because the only person it helps is rosado. even if quillin easily beats him in a rematch, i dont think that quillin will all of the sudden be known as a world beater. also, there are definitely bigger money fights out there for him, fights that could push him into a big fight, and fights that could potentially be more exciting. many good fighters over the history of boxing have had tough fights with lesser competition. they usually just move on.
Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome
I don't personally think using the logic that Garcia gave Morales a rematch justifies the demand to give Mattthysse a rematch... Particularly an immediate one.
Of course one should happen somewhere down the line, assuming both fighters perform well, or are still at the same level but right now Garcia should be looking forward.
Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
First, I want to make clear I don't think Garcia is obligated to do a rematch. I also am a big Matthysse fan and have already admitted to sour grapes on this fight. It was a tough fight and Garcia escaped with a win. If he wants to move on to tougher challengers, so be it. There are plenty of good fights for him that don't involve Matthysse including the Broner/Maidana winner, the Thurman/Karass winner, and Brooks. However, those fights are all at 147. At 140, outside of Lundy with the Philly angle, I'm not sure who else there is for Garcia to fight, other than a rematch.
In my opinion though, the welt grew in the 7th round. Prior to the _th round, I had the fight close. I thought he was getting to Garcia in the later rounds, especially when he knocked Garcia's mouthpiece out of his mouth and Weeks stepped in to get the mouthpiece, giving Matthysse time to recuperate. If he had both eyes, I'm not sure how that round would have ended. I thought I saw both guys make adjustments, but when the eye close, it appeared to me that Matthysse was beginning to adjust, and the closed eye ruined the momentum.
I also thought Garcia fought dirty. I thought he hit low and frequently held when the fight was in close. He was called for a point in the 11th round, but how many times did Weeks warn him before he took a point? With a different referee and without the closed eye, I think the fight goes differently.
Does every close fight deserve a rematch? No way. But, fights where there is an argument that the outcome changed due to a cut/closed eye, to me have more grounds for rematches.
Basically, :footinmouth:
Fair enough. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it again simply because it has the makings of a great action fight.
To me though, unless the cut actually stopped the fight (like with Rosado), I don't think it warrants a rematch. There have been other fights (Stiverne/Arreola recently, Pavlik/Martinez is another) where a cut, swelling, broken nose, ect changed the momentum of a fight, but to me that's just boxing. It's up to the fighter to overcome the damage, and if it isn't the doctor stopping the fight and taking that ability away from him, I don't think he has any reason to gripe.
I really like both guys, and I was one of the many who underestimated Garcia and thought Matthysse would be too much for Garcia. Danny really showed a huge pair of balls and underestimated boxing skill in winning a hard fought victory. I think on that accomplishment, he deserves to propell upwards and enjoy bigger fights.
Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome
So if they rematch, both of them, and both of them get cuts again, then what would we want?
:-\
Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
I tend to think in both cases that cut/eye closing changed the outcomes of the fights.
What exactly did you see in that fight that made you think Matthysse would have won?
I thought Garcia proved that not only could he outbox Matthysse, but he could stand up to his power. Matthysse hit Garcia with some shots that IMO would have knocked out 95% of the JR WW division, but Garcia took them like a champ.
First, I want to make clear I don't think Garcia is obligated to do a rematch. I also am a big Matthysse fan and have already admitted to sour grapes on this fight. It was a tough fight and Garcia escaped with a win. If he wants to move on to tougher challengers, so be it. There are plenty of good fights for him that don't involve Matthysse including the Broner/Maidana winner, the Thurman/Karass winner, and Brooks. However, those fights are all at 147. At 140, outside of Lundy with the Philly angle, I'm not sure who else there is for Garcia to fight, other than a rematch.
In my opinion though, the welt grew in the 7th round. Prior to the _th round, I had the fight close. I thought he was getting to Garcia in the later rounds, especially when he knocked Garcia's mouthpiece out of his mouth and Weeks stepped in to get the mouthpiece, giving Matthysse time to recuperate. If he had both eyes, I'm not sure how that round would have ended. I thought I saw both guys make adjustments, but when the eye close, it appeared to me that Matthysse was beginning to adjust, and the closed eye ruined the momentum.
I also thought Garcia fought dirty. I thought he hit low and frequently held when the fight was in close. He was called for a point in the 11th round, but how many times did Weeks warn him before he took a point? With a different referee and without the closed eye, I think the fight goes differently.
Does every close fight deserve a rematch? No way. But, fights where there is an argument that the outcome changed due to a cut/closed eye, to me have more grounds for rematches.
Basically, :footinmouth:
If the roles were reversed would you want a rematch?
I had garcias back from day one.
Everyone was against him and he fought the perfect fight and none of lucas shots had any effect.
If it means more money in the bank for garcia and the mayweather fight cant be made then yes, close the other eye in the rematch.
Its onwards and upwards for garcia and im looking foward to seeing his progress without having to go backwards against the argentine hatton.
Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome
if garcia wants a rematch with matthysse right now then thats fine, but he wants a fight with mayweather so he wants to go up to 147. im not sure if matthysse has any plan on moving up to 147 in the near future. either way, garcia will prove his worth by beating a legit welterweight. so no, garcia doesnt want a rematch right away because he is on the road to fight mayweather.
Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
I tend to think in both cases that cut/eye closing changed the outcomes of the fights.
What exactly did you see in that fight that made you think Matthysse would have won?
I thought Garcia proved that not only could he outbox Matthysse, but he could stand up to his power. Matthysse hit Garcia with some shots that IMO would have knocked out 95% of the JR WW division, but Garcia took them like a champ.
First, I want to make clear I don't think Garcia is obligated to do a rematch. I also am a big Matthysse fan and have already admitted to sour grapes on this fight. It was a tough fight and Garcia escaped with a win. If he wants to move on to tougher challengers, so be it. There are plenty of good fights for him that don't involve Matthysse including the Broner/Maidana winner, the Thurman/Karass winner, and Brooks. However, those fights are all at 147. At 140, outside of Lundy with the Philly angle, I'm not sure who else there is for Garcia to fight, other than a rematch.
In my opinion though, the welt grew in the 7th round. Prior to the _th round, I had the fight close. I thought he was getting to Garcia in the later rounds, especially when he knocked Garcia's mouthpiece out of his mouth and Weeks stepped in to get the mouthpiece, giving Matthysse time to recuperate. If he had both eyes, I'm not sure how that round would have ended. I thought I saw both guys make adjustments, but when the eye close, it appeared to me that Matthysse was beginning to adjust, and the closed eye ruined the momentum.
I also thought Garcia fought dirty. I thought he hit low and frequently held when the fight was in close. He was called for a point in the 11th round, but how many times did Weeks warn him before he took a point? With a different referee and without the closed eye, I think the fight goes differently.
Does every close fight deserve a rematch? No way. But, fights where there is an argument that the outcome changed due to a cut/closed eye, to me have more grounds for rematches.
Basically, :footinmouth:
If the roles were reversed would you want a rematch?
I had garcias back from day one.
Everyone was against him and he fought the perfect fight and none of lucas shots had any effect.
If it means more money in the bank for garcia and the mayweather fight cant be made then yes, close the other eye in the rematch.
Its onwards and upwards for garcia and im looking foward to seeing his progress without having to go backwards against the argentine hatton.
If it were the other way around, I would absolutely want a rematch. As I said before, what's not to like?
The Argentinian Hatton? That makes no sense, my friend. They fight nothing alike.
If it is onwards and upwards for Garcia, then fine so be it. If it isn't, then Matthysse is as good, if not better, than any other match out there. If he can get a fight with the Broner/Maidana winner, Thurman/Karass, or Mayweather, I can't blame him.
