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Did I say I think he is crap? I think he's one of the best fighters ever, it's just a shame we won't know how good because of his cherry picking of opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Sergio Martinez at light middle. It's amazing he'll fight certain guys at certain weights and completely avoid other top P4P fighters.
I doubt Mayweather's decision to drop a belt has anything to do with any other fighter. Most likely the reason for dropping the belt has to do with sanctioning fees. Any sanctioning body should have fixed fees and never a percentage. If the WBC is using percentages to figure the sanctioning fee, then I can certainly understand why Mayweather would drop the belt.
3% of $1,000 = $30.00
3% of $1,000,000 = $30,000
3% of 22,000,000 = $660,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeDid I say I think he is crap? I think he's one of the best fighters ever, it's just a shame we won't know how good because of his cherry picking of opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Sergio Martinez at light middle. It's amazing he'll fight certain guys at certain weights and completely avoid other top P4P fighters.
Trouble here is Martinez and Pacquiao are probably just as far over the hill as anyone Floyd has fought in years, perhaps aside from Shane Mosley. I'd love to see either fight made even still, but to suggest Floyd would get more credit in beating those guys than he has anyone else is dumb, you could easily call either of those cherry picks as well after the fact.
Yes now, but not 4 years ago when he fought Marquez at 144 and came in 146. Then he fights a shot Mosely. Again he is clearly a class fighter but he hand picks the easiest fights he can get away with. Anyone think he will fight Lara after Lara looked so good against Trout? Why not fight GGG at light middle?Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pkingQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeDid I say I think he is crap? I think he's one of the best fighters ever, it's just a shame we won't know how good because of his cherry picking of opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Sergio Martinez at light middle. It's amazing he'll fight certain guys at certain weights and completely avoid other top P4P fighters.
Trouble here is Martinez and Pacquiao are probably just as far over the hill as anyone Floyd has fought in years, perhaps aside from Shane Mosley. I'd love to see either fight made even still, but to suggest Floyd would get more credit in beating those guys than he has anyone else is dumb, you could easily call either of those cherry picks as well after the fact.
Yeah I hear you, just saying. Obviously Marquez was still pretty damn good at that point, Floyd just didn't let him show it. Mosley was coming off the Margarito fight and nobody was calling him shot beforehand. If Floyd did fight Manny or Martinez today and beat them, those guys would be even easier to discredit after the fact, that was my point. I agree with you on Lara, that's realistically the biggest challenge for Floyd by a mile imo and it will never happen between the style and low profile of the Cuban. Could Golovkin even make 154, has he expressed any interest in doing so? Thats a guy who needs to ramp up his opposition in a big way himself.
People will always so "Ohhh Floyd cherry picked, never fought anyone good, ect". But to me, this is just revisionist history.
Arturo Gatti. Sure, in hindsight, he went to shit shortly after he was destroyed by Floyd. But what people forget is that at the time, ARTURO GATTI WAS RANKED #1 AT 140 BY RING MAGAZINE (only under Kostya Tzsyu, who was the undisputed champ). Arturo Gatti was, at the time, enjoying a career revitalization under new trainer Buddy Mcgirt.
Shane Mosley, same thing. Yeah he went to shit after Floyd beat him, but he was experiencing a HUGE career revitalization after DESTROYING consensus #1 WW Margarito in a career performance that had him looking like the Mosley of old. When Floyd fought Mosley, he was the WW champ, and he was ranked higher than he had been in previous 10 years!
People say "ohhh, Floyd cherry picked Mosley when he was old and washed up. WHAT? So when was he supposed to fight Mosley? In 2005-2008, when people were calling for Mosley to retire after getting schooled 4 times by Vernon Forrest and Winky Wright, and getting a gift over Oscar in the middle of those schoolings? When he was looking mediocre in comeback fights against Cruz and Estrada, which did nothing but confirm to the boxing public that Mosley was washed up?
The fact is, when Floyd fought Mosley in 2010, Shane was the most highly ranked and regarded he had been since 2001, before he got destroyed by Vernon Forrest twice.
It was Floyd himself who said part of his greatness comes from his cherry picking. He said it during one of those all access things leading up to the Canelo fight.
I think a Floyd v Pac fight might still happen. Mayweather Sr. was talking about how easily Floyd would beat Manny now. I don't think Floyd is the type of guy who says I made enough money. A Pac v Floyd fight would probably be the richest fight in history. People say Manny has no bargaining power anymore, bullshit, he has his fan base. Who else has the following Pac man does, Khan, give me a break. There is just too much money for a guy named money to leave on the table
Not only the fees, he does not want anyone,even partially, in control of what he does. Arum and Suleiman are both control freaks with angles up their sleeves we haven't seen yet and tentacles reaching everywhere. In other words they are first class pricks.Quote:
Originally Posted by fan johnny
Didn't always feel that way about Arum but have come to see the light.
Yeah true, and I think that's been made evident by the fact that Floyd has won the same WBC WW belt four times and hasn't defended it once.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
Beat Baldomir for it, dropped it.
Beat Hatton for it, dropped it.
Beat Ortiz for it, dropped it.
Now he's beaten Guerrero for it and dropped it.
He's never held onto it. It would have been amazing if he DIDN'T drop it.
No he shouldn't have fought Mosely at all. He shouldn't have fought a 39 year old future hall of gamer who hadn't fought in over a year. I'm not saying he's fighting bums, he's fighting very good fighters consistently, which is more then a lot of other champs do but if you compare him against other greats who u put in the top 10 fighters of all time he falls short for me because he lacks wins against elite fighters in their primes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
That's revisionist history, because I can't remember ANYBODY complaining about Floyd fighting Shane in the lead up to the fight. I challenge you to find a boxing columnist or "expert" who said "this fight is a farce, Shane is too old, ect". Hell, I challenge you to find one Saddoboxing poster who said that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe
Shane wasn't too old until he got dominated. Before that, people were excited that finally Floyd was fighting someone with a lot of speed and power. But if you can bring up some of your old posts where you were telling everyone the fight was a farce, I'll give you credit.
Very few of Floyd's opponents get criticized or given no chance going it, with notable exceptions going to Zab Judah for coming off a loss, Baldomir, and JMM for being too small (all legit criticism).
Lacks wins against elite fighters in their primes? Well name your top 10 who you believe fought better overall opposition than Floyd.
Lol Mosley was coming off 1 of his biggest wins. Apart from Judah who else has floyd fought that was not coming off a big win and in form ? If anything it's pacman who cherry picks he likes to fight people coming off losesQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeYes now, but not 4 years ago when he fought Marquez at 144 and came in 146. Then he fights a shot Mosely. Again he is clearly a class fighter but he hand picks the easiest fights he can get away with. Anyone think he will fight Lara after Lara looked so good against Trout? Why not fight GGG at light middle?Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pkingQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeDid I say I think he is crap? I think he's one of the best fighters ever, it's just a shame we won't know how good because of his cherry picking of opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Sergio Martinez at light middle. It's amazing he'll fight certain guys at certain weights and completely avoid other top P4P fighters.
Trouble here is Martinez and Pacquiao are probably just as far over the hill as anyone Floyd has fought in years, perhaps aside from Shane Mosley. I'd love to see either fight made even still, but to suggest Floyd would get more credit in beating those guys than he has anyone else is dumb, you could easily call either of those cherry picks as well after the fact.
I have to agree with be an flicker, as much as I loath Floyd he is the best welterweight at the moment and has beaten everyone that was realitically available at the time.
Roberto Duran fought and beat a prime Ray Leonard.
Lennox Lewis fought and beat a prime Vitali
Joe Calzaghe fought and beat a prime Lacy and Kesseler
Ray Leonard beat a prime Hearns
Roy Jones beat a prime James Toney
Rigondeaux fought an beat a prime Donaire
Marvin Hagler beat a prime Hearns
Andre Ward beat a prime Froch
Barrera fought a prime Morales and prime Naz
Martinez fighting a prime Williams
Hopkins fighting a prime Pavlik.
Above are examples of career defining fights. If you are saying Fliyds best win if against a 39 year old fighter, who had 5 losses at the time who went 1-3-1 in his next 5 fights it says a lot about his legacy.
Again I'm not saying he's not a great fighter. It's just a shame he refuses to fight fighters that people give a chance against. Just to show the chances bookies gave him
Opened a 1/4 fav v Canelo (80% chance of winning) this went off bigger with money coming for Canelo.
Opened 1/12 v Guerrero (92% chance of winning)
Opened 1/8 v Cotto (88% chance of winning)
Opened 1/10 v Ortiz (90% chance of winning)
Priced around 1/8 to beat Khan (88% chance of winning)
None of the above are competitive.