RIP Tony Benn

My point is that it is not okay to excuse these people abusing your society. I don't joke about Tony Benn. Tony Benn is one of my heroes, I don't dismiss him. He gave me hope as a young person. I lost hope because of British politics. British politics should be the end for most.

Now if one wanted realism. Would one ever dismiss Tony Benn? Yes you would, if you had never really believed in Tony Benn!

Yet their politics is just the politics of hate. I bred, I bought a home, I have pets. Stupidity. That isn't socialism.

Tony Benn walked us through the stages of madness there too. It is corrupt to its soul. Now would anyone want to say that Tony Benn is anti human? They wouldn't dare. Yet these pieces of anti British propaganda will say that I am.

Saving a country is not anti Britain. It is as pro Britain as you can be.

Morally there is no point of view that will differ between me and Tony Ben. We are on the same side. It is the same moral point of view.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Morally there is no point of view that will differ between me and Tony Ben. We are on the same side. It is the same moral point of view.

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I agree you do have the same beliefs and opinions. You could argue Benn was left behind by the Labour party and if they stayed with him Thatcher would have been in government even longer. Choices have to be made and sometimes you have to update your views and principles for the greater good. Neil Kinnock did that at the cost of him never being prime minister but setting up for Blair.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Morally there is no point of view that will differ between me and Tony Ben. We are on the same side. It is the same moral point of view.

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I agree you do have the same beliefs and opinions. You could argue Benn was left behind by the Labour party and if they stayed with him Thatcher would have been in government even longer. Choices have to be made and sometimes you have to update your views and principles for the greater good. Neil Kinnock did that at the cost of him never being prime minister but setting up for Blair.

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Master, sellling these values will never have helped society. I am angry on the Tony Benn issue because I am a true socialist. I would see it through. No compromise.

What is your agenda: to help the society OR NOT?

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Morally there is no point of view that will differ between me and Tony Ben. We are on the same side. It is the same moral point of view.

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I agree you do have the same beliefs and opinions. You could argue Benn was left behind by the Labour party and if they stayed with him Thatcher would have been in government even longer. Choices have to be made and sometimes you have to update your views and principles for the greater good. Neil Kinnock did that at the cost of him never being prime minister but setting up for Blair.

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Master, sellling these values will never have helped society. I am angry on the Tony Benn issue because I am a true socialist. I would see it through.

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18 years of misery by Thatcher would have carried on. Sometimes you have to make compromises and concessions for the sake of the public.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Morally there is no point of view that will differ between me and Tony Ben. We are on the same side. It is the same moral point of view.

---

I agree you do have the same beliefs and opinions. You could argue Benn was left behind by the Labour party and if they stayed with him Thatcher would have been in government even longer. Choices have to be made and sometimes you have to update your views and principles for the greater good. Neil Kinnock did that at the cost of him never being prime minister but setting up for Blair.

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Master, sellling these values will never have helped society. I am angry on the Tony Benn issue because I am a true socialist. I would see it through.

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18 years of misery by Thatcher would have carried on. Sometimes you have to make compromises and concessions for the sake of the public.

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No. that didnt help society. It didn't. Societally and morally either, it helped noone.

If Labour was in, and that Labour, it would have been weird, but my heart.

Look at how society is today. Bankrupt banks, mass bank of England financial fraud.

This isn't Britain. Nothing like Benn 'England.

My point is that I am as strong as always. I want my England to come back.
I don't want to be an alien forever.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

My point is that I am as strong as always. I want my England to come back.
I don't want to be an alien forever.

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Society has moved on and Benn did show innovation when he was a minister with concord but once he was outside he became out of touch. If Labour listened to him they would never have got in parliament and the Liberals would have become the second party. Bob Crowe moved and updated his policies for the new technology and was still powerful person for his members.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

I know what you are saying but I think you are oversimplifying things a little. I did not agree with everything Benn stood for but to call him a metropolitan elite professional politician who never had a real job in his life conveniently misses out the fact that he served as a Pilot in the RAF during the War and perhaps his greatest mark on Politics was the rejection of his own hereditary peerage. Leaving Westminster in 1999 to concentrate on Politics summed up the guys enthusiasm for rejecting the establishment and he was one of the few Labour politicians left who had any understanding of what the party stood for originally.

He did not leave the same kind of mark on social reform and society that somebody like Roy Jenkins did and his anti European stance and ill advised chum fest with Saddam was not something that I can admire, but he was a fantastic speaker and writer. So on reflection not quite the greatest Prime Minister we never had at all. Not even the greatest Labour party politician or Leader, just a guy with a big pipe and a great voice. And now he's dead.

The greatest Labour politician called Tony and the only one called Tony who was not a complete and utter smarmy prick.

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The problem with you is that you are against every policy Benn was for and yet accuse me of being middle class? You defend monarchy and defend Benn elitism, and yet want to blame me for being elitist?

You are the most anti-English person I have ever known and I now see your agenda. No, I am a patriot as I have always been and shall always be. You have the agenda because you not on the Tony Benn page. You dissed him as soon as you could.

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Miles what are you waffling on about? I don't have an agenda your muppet you just have massive issues. Statements like

"The problem with you is that you are against every policy Benn was for and yet accuse me of being middle class?"

are just stupid and presumptuous.

"You defend monarchy and defend Benn elitism, and yet want to blame me for being elitist?"

is just blabbering monkey speak Gibberish. There is such a thing as a difference of opinion, and the fact that what you think, and more to the point, what you insist the majority of a country you no longer live in thinks are not one and the same thing. You undermine you own argument by personally attacking the individual (in this case an Elderly Lady) rather than the institution that is the Monarchy. You then assume that I am some kind of Royalist because I dare to challenge your assumption that nobody in the UK wants a Monarchy and the Jubilee just passed everybody by. Then just to muddy the waters further you then suggest that I am defending "Benn elitism" whatever that is, rather than acknowledging the fact that I actually defended the accusation that he was part of the metropolitan elite by rejecting his peerage. Like you he was aristocracy, but unlike you he had principles and was not a gold hoarding champagne socialist.

Exactly how am I " the most anti-English person " you have ever known ? You do not speak for England. England is not some little country that you can demean and put into a little box by reducing it to some airy fairy Milesland that exists only in your head. England is a proud and diverse Country that has been constantly evolving for hundreds of years. The Polish, Gypsies and Jews have been here, even in the west country, for Hundreds of years, not like your lot you skinny Northern bastard.

I have not dissed Tony Benn merely reassessed my own perhaps over enthusiastic opening post. Being a Plymothian I have great admiration for people on the far left like Michael Foot and those in the center like Dr David Owen but that does not mean I have to agree with everything they said. Benn was a towering speaker and a great thinker but people like Roy Jenkins leaves a far bigger legacy because he changed the law and the society we live in. Jenkins abolished Capital punishment, relaxed the divorce law, removed the illegality of abortion and homosexuality, stopped birching and removed Theatre censorship. All that from the son of a miner who was far more moderate than Benn and more realistic. He became even more centerist in forming the SDP and though I am sure his heart was in the right place, Tony Benns position so far to the left precluded him from doing that.

No, I completely disagree with you on pretty much every point as usual. You live in the airy fairy world and the chickens have come home to roost. I have argued against every single element that has reduced the UK to its current condition and it is in its current condition because the values of Tony Benn were neglected and ignored.

The monarchy as an institution is something I have constantly railed against. I have said myself that the Queen might be a nice person and considering that her every whim is catered for she should have manners. However, it is personal as as well as institutional. A decent person would tell the truth and admit that hereditary power is wrong and would tell her offspring to find real work in the real world. The monarchy as an institution is a crime against Britain. You are akin to an Internet SS guard defending fascism. Only a shill would defend fascism. Monarchy is fascism. Can you vote for these people? No. Are you going to grow a moustache? Potentially.

Middle class values and working class values are those where work, honesty, and decency are valued. In turn those things should be about a national interest. Not a global interest and open borders. In life those core values are the only things that matter and to basically exterminate them in the pursuit of protecting the very rich is a national disgrace. Open borders, European officials unelected and tax exempt are insidious and much akin to the monarchy which is also beyond law and the common good. You defend anti democratic and anti British working and middle class ethics. You feel good and proper about loathing the banks and trolling people who argue that self reliance is a decent thing, but sit there and defend an abomination like the monarchy and say that everyone should come in and reduce life to modern serfdom. Be careful what you wish for, you might well get it. You seem like someone that reads the papers and believes the stories. That is airy fairy and sheep like. You are a globalist monarchy defender. These are terrible things and thankfully the world is revolting against these horrid values. People are waking up and don't want your kool aid, they see through the agenda and the lies.

You should be ashamed of yourself and to troll me and question my values. You should never question my patriotism as you are a hollow shill with a hatred for genuine working and middle class values. Anything one says gets twisted and trolled by you because you are an arrogant, pompous, fascist defender. You can say that wheelchair basketball looks silly and Mr PC will twist it into a hatred of disabled people. You are quite sick that way. Can you not comprehend that a lot of people don't even like basketball and to watch wheelchair basketball just seems like a waste of time? Nobody hates anybody and nobody is telling them what to do with their free time. All I have ever said is that it is an agenda to tell me that I must enjoy it. Most people don't watch wheelchair basketball. Likewise, most ordinary people would like controlled borders, but you being the twisted freak that you are will always make it personal and say I hate Europeans. No, I love Europe and Europeans.

I don't think Europe is a good idea and Tony Benn thought so too. He was less perverse than you and clearly thought for himself. More people should think like Tony Benn and our country rejected those values and sold its soul. Thatchers, Camerons, Browns, and Blairs...these people are lacking in soul. You have an aversion to anyone who tells the truth. You despise Chomsky. Why? What has that man ever done to you? Has he lied? Slept with your daughter? Galloway? Did he molest you as a child? Assange? These people have done very good things. We need more like them. Oh, but the Queen is fine, everything she does is rosy and the monarchy is perfect.

Our country spends millions of pounds locking a man up in an embassy, it gives millions to a non-elected state head, it allows massive banking fraud, it taxes everything and says you don't have a right when it comes to being perved on by the state. It goes on and on and on and on. Speaking the truth should be applauded, but you troll it. And you say I am warped? Look in the mirror. I do. I look good.

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

The greatest Prime Minister we never had.

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I don't agree Screaming Lord Sutch would have been much better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYPeaoyU_Vc

Galloway on Benn. Very well said.

Galloway makes some interesting points that Labour lost 3 elections after Foot came into power. Would Benn have been any worse? I think the right wing media crucified Foot and they would have done the same to Benn. So maybe it was a good thing for Benn himself that he never became leader of the party.