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“What is about to go down Saturday night in Monterrey, Mexico, is everything that is wrong with boxing. Vivian Harris is going to fight. He is taking on Jorge Paez Jr. in a fight that should not be taking place…. Harris is a shot fighter. A badly shot fighter, who has not been a remote factor for about seven years.” –Dan Rafael March 17, 2014
Harris, of course, went on to beat Paez, Jr. on March 22 deep in the heart of Mexico.
just cause he works for ESPN doesn't mean he always has to be right. Harris, if were talking about the same one is shot. He got stopped by Ortiz not so long ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcall
Yeh I'd give Fat Dan a well intentioned pass on that one. Harris was on a terrible run of shaky legs and being dropped and hurt by glancing punches. Watching him leaving on a stretcher and slurring was enough to hope he won the lottery and immediately retire. That was ugly stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maravilla2012just cause he works for ESPN doesn't mean he always has to be right. Harris, if were talking about the same one is shot. He got stopped by Ortiz not so long ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcall
Just because Harris won the fight doesn't mean he should still be fighting. Carried out on a stretcher. Slurring words. Having won only 1 fight in 6 years, with 6 of those 7 losses by KO. These are valid reasons that Harris should be done as a fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliYeh I'd give Fat Dan a well intentioned pass on that one. Harris was on a terrible run of shaky legs and being dropped and hurt by glancing punches. Watching him leaving on a stretcher and slurring was enough to hope he won the lottery and immediately retire. That was ugly stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maravilla2012just cause he works for ESPN doesn't mean he always has to be right. Harris, if were talking about the same one is shot. He got stopped by Ortiz not so long ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcall
From what I gather he was a third choice late replacement for Erik Morales?! Just the thought of a worn down and punch prone guy being shipped down to Meheeco as a late sub should give anyone pause. He beat Paez, he should retire on a high. But he won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoJust because Harris won the fight doesn't mean he should still be fighting. Carried out on a stretcher. Slurring words. Having won only 1 fight in 6 years, with 6 of those 7 losses by KO. These are valid reasons that Harris should be done as a fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliYeh I'd give Fat Dan a well intentioned pass on that one. Harris was on a terrible run of shaky legs and being dropped and hurt by glancing punches. Watching him leaving on a stretcher and slurring was enough to hope he won the lottery and immediately retire. That was ugly stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maravilla2012just cause he works for ESPN doesn't mean he always has to be right. Harris, if were talking about the same one is shot. He got stopped by Ortiz not so long ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliYeh I'd give Fat Dan a well intentioned pass on that one. Harris was on a terrible run of shaky legs and being dropped and hurt by glancing punches. Watching him leaving on a stretcher and slurring was enough to hope he won the lottery and immediately retire. That was ugly stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maravilla2012just cause he works for ESPN doesn't mean he always has to be right. Harris, if were talking about the same one is shot. He got stopped by Ortiz not so long ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcall
Good points and they are taken on Harris, but the way Dan went after him was cruel. And remember, the stretcher bit involved a head-butt--though probably even more damaging than a punch.
Check this cruel one out:
“Harris [is] a fighter that should be put down. If he were a horse, he’d either be taken to stud or the glue factory.”—Steve Kim of MaxBoxing
Rumor has it that Kim lives with his mother. If that's true, then that's all you need to know about this "macho man."
Two more quotes:
“#ESPN #boxing writer Dan Rafael says Vivian Harris should no longer be fighting. Based on Rafael’s own wisdom, Rafael shouldn’t be eating!” –Rick Glaser
“I cannot be the only one who finds something distasteful about suggesting a fighter is fit only for breeding or the glue factory, or describing him as “damaged goods”, especially when the writer professes a sanctimonious concern for the same fighter’s welfare. Nor can I be alone in detecting a whiff of condescension…” -Matthew J. Bailey http://therumpuscompass.com/tag/vivian-harris/
But Dan Rafael didn't say any of those things!!! Steve Kim did. Rick Glaser did. Matthew J. Bailey(who I suspect is you) did.Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcallQuote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliYeh I'd give Fat Dan a well intentioned pass on that one. Harris was on a terrible run of shaky legs and being dropped and hurt by glancing punches. Watching him leaving on a stretcher and slurring was enough to hope he won the lottery and immediately retire. That was ugly stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maravilla2012just cause he works for ESPN doesn't mean he always has to be right. Harris, if were talking about the same one is shot. He got stopped by Ortiz not so long ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcall
Good points and they are taken on Harris, but the way Dan went after him was cruel. And remember, the stretcher bit involved a head-butt--though probably even more damaging than a punch.
Check this cruel one out:
“Harris [is] a fighter that should be put down. If he were a horse, he’d either be taken to stud or the glue factory.”—Steve Kim of MaxBoxing
Rumor has it that Kim lives with his mother. If that's true, then that's all you need to know about this "macho man."
Two more quotes:
“#ESPN #boxing writer Dan Rafael says Vivian Harris should no longer be fighting. Based on Rafael’s own wisdom, Rafael shouldn’t be eating!” –Rick Glaser
“I cannot be the only one who finds something distasteful about suggesting a fighter is fit only for breeding or the glue factory, or describing him as “damaged goods”, especially when the writer professes a sanctimonious concern for the same fighter’s welfare. Nor can I be alone in detecting a whiff of condescension…” -Matthew J. Bailey http://therumpuscompass.com/tag/vivian-harris/
Are you really that dim that you continue your argument against Dan Rafael by providing cruel quotes from other people?!?!
Rocco, you are in and out of this thread like a short dick. Please just f--k off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoBut Dan Rafael didn't say any of those things!!! Steve Kim did. Rick Glaser did. Matthew J. Bailey(who I suspect is you) did.Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcallQuote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliYeh I'd give Fat Dan a well intentioned pass on that one. Harris was on a terrible run of shaky legs and being dropped and hurt by glancing punches. Watching him leaving on a stretcher and slurring was enough to hope he won the lottery and immediately retire. That was ugly stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maravilla2012just cause he works for ESPN doesn't mean he always has to be right. Harris, if were talking about the same one is shot. He got stopped by Ortiz not so long ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcall
Good points and they are taken on Harris, but the way Dan went after him was cruel. And remember, the stretcher bit involved a head-butt--though probably even more damaging than a punch.
Check this cruel one out:
“Harris [is] a fighter that should be put down. If he were a horse, he’d either be taken to stud or the glue factory.”—Steve Kim of MaxBoxing
Rumor has it that Kim lives with his mother. If that's true, then that's all you need to know about this "macho man."
Two more quotes:
“#ESPN #boxing writer Dan Rafael says Vivian Harris should no longer be fighting. Based on Rafael’s own wisdom, Rafael shouldn’t be eating!” –Rick Glaser
“I cannot be the only one who finds something distasteful about suggesting a fighter is fit only for breeding or the glue factory, or describing him as “damaged goods”, especially when the writer professes a sanctimonious concern for the same fighter’s welfare. Nor can I be alone in detecting a whiff of condescension…” -Matthew J. Bailey http://therumpuscompass.com/tag/vivian-harris/
Are you really that dim that you continue your argument against Dan Rafael by providing cruel quotes from other people?!?!
“What is about to go down Saturday night in Monterrey, Mexico, is everything that is wrong with boxing. Vivian Harris is going to fight. He is taking on Jorge Paez Jr. in a fight that should not be taking place…. Harris is a shot fighter. A badly shot fighter, who has not been a remote factor for about seven years.” –Dan Rafael March 17, 2014
This was canned outrage” and “blind grandstanding” Sam Geraci of Fightnews said he could not understand “how any person with ethics can write something that harms the earning potential of a fighter without having verified information on why a fighter may have been denied a license in one region and granted one in another."
Dan Rafael is spot on when it comes to his assessment of Harris, but more to the point he's addressing a huge issue in boxing. One where fighters are allowed and encouraged to put themselves in harms way for little pay just to be a notch in an up and coming fighters belt. The reward for such sacrifices far outweighs the benefits. Dan is not the only person who feels this way and who has been speaking out on the subject. Someone with clout and a platform (which, whether you like it or not Dan has, and I suspect you don't), needs to be vocal about the damage that is done to these fighters at the ends of their careers. It's not that Dan wants to interfere with Harris' opportunity make money as Sam Geraci claimed, it's that Dan doesn't want to see Harris permanently hurt or killed in the ring. Sometimes it takes strong language(or all bold font) to get people's attention and to draw that attention to an important subject. The safety of the fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcallQuote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccoBut Dan Rafael didn't say any of those things!!! Steve Kim did. Rick Glaser did. Matthew J. Bailey(who I suspect is you) did.Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcallQuote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliYeh I'd give Fat Dan a well intentioned pass on that one. Harris was on a terrible run of shaky legs and being dropped and hurt by glancing punches. Watching him leaving on a stretcher and slurring was enough to hope he won the lottery and immediately retire. That was ugly stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maravilla2012just cause he works for ESPN doesn't mean he always has to be right. Harris, if were talking about the same one is shot. He got stopped by Ortiz not so long ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcall
Good points and they are taken on Harris, but the way Dan went after him was cruel. And remember, the stretcher bit involved a head-butt--though probably even more damaging than a punch.
Check this cruel one out:
“Harris [is] a fighter that should be put down. If he were a horse, he’d either be taken to stud or the glue factory.”—Steve Kim of MaxBoxing
Rumor has it that Kim lives with his mother. If that's true, then that's all you need to know about this "macho man."
Two more quotes:
“#ESPN #boxing writer Dan Rafael says Vivian Harris should no longer be fighting. Based on Rafael’s own wisdom, Rafael shouldn’t be eating!” –Rick Glaser
“I cannot be the only one who finds something distasteful about suggesting a fighter is fit only for breeding or the glue factory, or describing him as “damaged goods”, especially when the writer professes a sanctimonious concern for the same fighter’s welfare. Nor can I be alone in detecting a whiff of condescension…” -Matthew J. Bailey http://therumpuscompass.com/tag/vivian-harris/
Are you really that dim that you continue your argument against Dan Rafael by providing cruel quotes from other people?!?!
“What is about to go down Saturday night in Monterrey, Mexico, is everything that is wrong with boxing. Vivian Harris is going to fight. He is taking on Jorge Paez Jr. in a fight that should not be taking place…. Harris is a shot fighter. A badly shot fighter, who has not been a remote factor for about seven years.” –Dan Rafael March 17, 2014
This was canned outrage” and “blind grandstanding” Sam Geraci of Fightnews said he could not understand “how any person with ethics can write something that harms the earning potential of a fighter without having verified information on why a fighter may have been denied a license in one region and granted one in another."
There's nothing inaccurate about what he wrote. Maybes it's the fact that its coming from a near Mardi Gras size float of a man who's idea of roadwork when he started was chasing speeding ice cream trucks, but that's the same for a large part of fans. Frankly its good to see a 'known' writer put a spot light on the subject of potential...proven ring injuries and what otherwise goes unnoticed with late subs barely passing med evaluations.
"There’s no easy answer in situations like Harris’, at least not for someone careful about the balance between fighter safety and a man’s right to earn a living.
"So, in the absence of a true battle for safety and reform, potshots are taken at fighters’ livelihoods; some surely appropriate, others questionable. There is no definitive answer because nobody ever pursues a definitive answer. Maybe nobody really wants one. Maybe too few promoter-owned media voices and blogging hobbyists care to get beyond the pretend concern and fake outrage."
Perhaps the most logical take is that of writer and former fight manager Charles Farrell.
“Like all of us, I worry about fighters. I’m concerned for their well-being, and I occasionally even question how we can justify watching what we watch...But, at one point, you’re in or you’re out. If you’re in, you live with being in. And part of living with being in entails understanding that you are not the arbiter for who should and who should not be allowed to fight.”
45 year old Frans Botha (1-7-1 in his last 8), 40 year old Jimmy LeBlanc (2-16-0-1 in last 19), 44 year-old Robert Hawkins is 0-12 in his last 12, 38 year old Ruben Williams (0-22-1 in his last 23), 42 year old Antwun Echols (1-15-3 in last 19), 40 year old Danny Williams (3-13 in last 16), 41 year old Zack Page (1-17 in last 18), and relatively young 33 year-old Andrew Greeley (0-26-1 in his last 27) might not be much more than a potential notch on some opponent’s belt at this point.
But if they can get licensed to box (and earn a living), who am I to join the sanctimonious ranks of Rafael, Kim, and some of the others of their condescending and sanctimonious ilk?
"...against Paez, he certainly didn’t look like a fighter dealing with any of the usual physical issues associated with being “shot.” His balance was fine, punch resistance was fine, and he had clear eyes throughout the competitive ten-round bout. He looked like a 35-year-old fighter, slowed down a bit, but not in dire need of a forced retirement."
Not mine but I agree 100%.
You started 3 threads against 2 analyst and 1 boxing writer and your a writer yourself. Max kellerman is understandable as he isn't as good as and interviewer as he was a couple years ago. Teddy does sometimes get annoying with all the metaphors but that's just nitpicking. With Dan Rafael just by naming the thread "Fat Dan..." just shows how your hating on them. They made it to a good spot in boxing making decent money and meeting the fighters and my guess is your just filled with so much jealousy that you hate them for being where you want to be.