Cassius Clay 'Chickened Out' in fighting Cleveland Williams in 1962.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

October 1962

Who would be a 'tougher' opponent for Cassius Clay.

Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams or 'Ancient Old' Archie Moore.

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Neither because Ali would have and did beat them anyway.

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That is a 'foolish' response.

October 1962

At worst, the 'Big Cat' would have a punchers chance.

Archie just barely made it up the stairs at the Sports Arena in November 1962.

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

October 1962

Who would be a 'tougher' opponent for Cassius Clay.

Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams or 'Ancient Old' Archie Moore.

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Neither because Ali would have and did beat them anyway.

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That is a 'foolish' response.

October 1962

At worst, the 'Big Cat' would have a punchers chance.

Archie just barely made it up the stairs at the Sports Arena in November 1962.

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That is a foolish response?

Do you know what irony is?

I wondered where Il Duce had gone! He has shown up on Saddo's...

Bill has ton of interesting information, if you can get him off the subject of Ali.

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

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Originally Posted by Master

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

October 1962

Who would be a 'tougher' opponent for Cassius Clay.

Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams or 'Ancient Old' Archie Moore.

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Neither because Ali would have and did beat them anyway.

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That is a 'foolish' response.

October 1962

At worst, the 'Big Cat' would have a punchers chance.

Archie just barely made it up the stairs at the Sports Arena in November 1962.

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Is it his personality you dislike or the fact that hes known as the greatest.?

October 1962

Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams

Ring Magazine...... #4
NBA..................... #5

Age.......... 29 years, 4 months
Record ..... 53-4-1 {44 KO's}

Cleveland Williams >

It was supposed to be a Heavyweight Eliminator Bout. I was ranked #4, and somehow Cassius had jumped over me to #2.

I had just beaten a guy that nobody wanted to fight in Ernie Terrell {April 3rd}. Then I flattened {KO 1} Alonzo Johnson
on May 15th. This was the same guy who had given Clay a nightmare last year.

Then I fought a 10-Round Draw with #2-Ranked Eddie Machen on July 10th.

Clay and I had agreed {verbally} on September 10, 1962 ~ for a 10-Round bout at the Sam Houston Coliseum for October 23rd.
This would give us both 6-Weeks to prepare, which was fair.

We were both to get $35,000 for a Fight Purse. Then the 'Chicken Chirping' started. At first, they wanted more money.
Then they wanted the bout moved to Miami Beach. Then they wanted both more money, a new location and a
'return guarantee' if I won.

The 'kicker' was that they wanted me to put $25,000 of my Fight Purse in 'escrow' for a guarantee return match if I won.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

October 1962

Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams

Ring Magazine...... #4
NBA..................... #5

Age.......... 29 years, 4 months
Record ..... 53-4-1 {44 KO's}

Cleveland Williams >

It was supposed to be a Heavyweight Eliminator Bout. I was ranked #4, and somehow Cassius had jumped over me to #2.

I had just beaten a guy that nobody wanted to fight in Ernie Terrell {April 3rd}. Then I flattened {KO 1} Alonzo Johnson
on May 15th. This was the same guy who had given Clay a nightmare last year.

Then I fought a 10-Round Draw with #2-Ranked Eddie Machen on July 10th.

Clay and I had agreed {verbally} on September 10, 1962 ~ for a 10-Round bout at the Sam Houston Coliseum for October 23rd.
This would give us both 6-Weeks to prepare, which was fair.

We were both to get $35,000 for a Fight Purse. Then the 'Chicken Chirping' started. At first, they wanted more money.
Then they wanted the bout moved to Miami Beach. Then they wanted both more money, a new location and a
'return guarantee' if I won.

The 'kicker' was that they wanted me to put $25,000 of my Fight Purse in 'escrow' for a guarantee return match if I won.

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Ok - ykdadamaja is now the second most annoying cunt on this board.

Paxtom must be a guy who fought ın the 60s and feels bıtter about not gettıng a tıtle shot. Its all I can thınk of.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Paxtom must be a guy who fought ın the 60s and feels bıtter about not gettıng a tıtle shot. Its all I can thınk of.

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And his white daughter married a black man.

October 5, 1962

Cassius Clay

"I stubbed my big toe, and now I won't be able to fight Cleveland Williams. We will be
sending my sparring-partner 'Philly' Dave Bailey to test the 'Big Cat' instead."

"Dave will probably send Williams out with a right-hook in 3 Rounds anyway. Then there
will be no good reason to fight him anyway."

October 23, 1962

Sam Houston Coliseum ~ Houston, Texas

Cleveland Williams ~ 53-4-1 {44 KO's} ~ 6' 3" ~ 209 lbs. ~ {Age; 29 years, 4 months}
vs.
Dave Bailey ~ 16-7-2 {11 KO's} ~ 6' 1 1/2" ~ 206 lbs. ~ {Age; 29 years, 9 months}

For a special guest appearance, 'new' Heavyweight Champion ~ Sonny Liston would be the Referee.

Dave 'KO' Bailey was a hard-punching Journeyman/Trial Horse from Philadelphia who brought along
a good right-hand. Dave was also, a primary sparring partner for young upstart Cassius Clay, and
also for Sonny Liston.

Dave was sent in as a 'fill-in' for Cassius who had 'Chickened Out' of this bout. Dave was also supposed
to 'test' the 'Big Cat' for a futrue bout with Cassius.

Dave had been 'unbeaten' since March 21, 1960 {2 years, 7 months}, and was riding a 5-Bout winning
streak.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Paxtom must be a guy who fought ın the 60s and feels bıtter about not gettıng a tıtle shot. Its all I can thınk of.

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No they just get found out and disappear. Il Duce, Senor Pepe and now Bill Paxtom...

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Paxtom must be a guy who fought ın the 60s and feels bıtter about not gettıng a tıtle shot. Its all I can thınk of.

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No they just get found out and disappear. Il Duce, Senor Pepe and now Bill Paxtom...

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Max power was another.

I subscribed to both of them

Il Duce was 'the greatest'. He had immense wit, to go with that 'tongue-in-cheek' teasing.

Senor Pepe was the best poster around. Lots of knowledge in that brain.

They both turned Box/Rec on it's ear, and flushed it down the drain.

..

The Fight

Sam Houston Coliseum ~ Houston, Texas

Attendance ........ { 5130 }

A dull and listless bout over the first 3-Rounds.

World-ranked #5 Cleveland Williams {209 lbs.} was content to slowly stalk, as Dave Bailey {205 lbs.} jabbed lightly and moved to his left.

Cleveland was looking to drop in a left-hook, while Dave was looking to throw an overhand right.

Late in Round 3, the crowd of 5130 started to boo the lack of action. Referee - Sonny Liston stepped in and told both fighters to pick up
the pace. Neither did.

In Round 4, Cleveland started off aggressively, but after 30-Seconds of flailing, he backed off. Dave rallied briefly at the {0:50 Mark}, but
quickly went to defense and hold.

The crowd barked some obscenities, as neither fighter looked sharp.

At the end of Round 4, Sonny went over to Cleveland Williams corner and told him to > "Step it up and get this thing over."

In Round 5, Cleveland came out more aggressively, and early in the Round he scored with hard right-hand that shook Dave. Cleveland
added in a 'left-right' to the face, and Dave reeled a bit. Cleveland then backed Dave up, while landing solid left-hands throughout
the Round.

Late in the Round, Cleveland landed a sharp 'left-right' to the head that had Dave reeling a bit. Dave then backed up towards the
Corner as Cleveland stalked. Cleveland then slammed in a hard 'looping' left-hook to the nose that dropped Dave in a heap at the
{2:45 Mark}.

Referee - Sonny Liston counted out Dave Bailey at {2:56} of Round 5.

Cleveland Williams >
It was hard to get motivated for this fight. Dave was a 'substitute', and he did not present a tough enough challenge. He jabbed,
grabbed and moved for 4 1/2 Rounds. I knew that I would catch him eventually. I know the fans are not happy, but this is what
happens sometimes."