Some thought on Tyson

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by imp

Every loss tyson had was way past his prime.

We have to look at pre douglas even though he had douglas down for ten seconds.

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.....:rolleyes:


And look at who he fought at that point in his career, a bunch of cling-ons from Larry Holmes' era

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Talking of cling-ons..hows wlad?

Is his next fight in wwe this time?

Pot kettle black stones glass houses.

Wlad fought a few cling-ons from the Lewis era no doubt, BUT he's fought far more guys that Lewis didn't fight and guys who have came up during Wlad's title reign because his title run has lasted that long. All the guys Wlad has fought that Lennox fought he's beaten them easily and typically early in his career: Botha, Mercer, Jackson, the latest one was Rahman who was never in the fight.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Wlad fought a few cling-ons from the Lewis era no doubt, BUT he's fought far more guys that Lewis didn't fight and guys who have came up during Wlad's title reign because his title run has lasted that long. All the guys Wlad has fought that Lennox fought he's beaten them easily and typically early in his career: Botha, Mercer, Jackson, the latest one was Rahman who was never in the fight.

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Some of these fighters did not belong in the ring with Wlad - Rahman had no legs and Mercer had no resistance.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

D'Mato and Rooney got Tyson to reach his potential. I don't think Dundee could have offered him much different...I mean Angie worked with Carmen Basillio and he was kind of a pressure fighter but I just don't see Angie having much more to offer Tyson than Cus and Rooney did. Would Tyson have done well under Atlas? Who knows. Kevin Rooney obviously hasn't found the right guy to recapture the magic he had with Tyson. I think later on in his career Tyson just needed to be in the gym more and not have a trainer who would accept his not showing up. Since he was around at the time I do wonder why Eddie Futch was never considered for Tyson? Manny Steward also may have helped. Both of those guys were certainly better than Aaron Snowell :rolleyes:

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I meant hire Dundee at that point of his career. I believe after title fights he grew over Rooney, Rooney was OK when he was instilling Cus's principles, in mittowork, general conditioning, but Rooney got not OK when he was teaching Mike based on his experience.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by NVSemin

Recently rewatched Tyson vs Thomas fight

Tyson was not doing very well from round 2 to 6. Rooney was yelling at him some garbage "you gotta throw punches with bad intentions", his behavior in the corner reminded me of Teddy Atlas in Moorers fights. Mike won the fight because the did not throw any uppercut till the right moment in the round 6.

After this fight and previous with Bonecrasher Smith, I started to realise that Rooney was overrated. He was definitely better than Atlas and many others in the gym, mittwork and general stuff, but not in boxing strategy. What Mike should have done is to hire Angelo Dundee.

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Tyson = overrated he was a bully , hit him back and he lost every fight he was in.

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Tyson had an awesome first round against Pinklon Thomas, he absolutely battered him.

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It was basically THomas decision to stay squared with Tyson and trade punches.

Nah, Mitch Green hit the prime Tyson quite a bit.
6'5", 29 year old Mitch Green didn't fight scared, and he went the full 10 rd distance with the prime Tyson; Tyson won the Title 6 months after the Mitch Green fight.
They were both contenders at the time: Green with only one loss 9 months earlier to Trevor Berbick, who Tyson would defeat 6 months later.
Green went toe-to-toe quite a bit in that fight, Tyson didn't cave in over it.
It's too bad they didn't rematch down the line.

I don't think Angelo Dundee in his corner would've helped Tyson very much regarding strategy.
He was more of a motivational-speaker type rather than a great strategist.

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Originally Posted by bradlee180

I don't think Angelo Dundee in his corner would've helped Tyson very much regarding strategy.
He was more of a motivational-speaker type rather than a great strategist.

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My point is not the help, but harm. Dundee presence would not harm him, unlike Rooney

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

For the record your honour. Tucker and Biggs were undefeated fighters not from Holmes era.

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So 2 decent heavyweights

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And neither was a big hitter.

Tyson was as good as he was ever going to be with Rooney. He reached his maximum potential IMO.

The style they had for him was perfect. Teach a tortured soul with great power and athleticism how to seek and destroy.

Worked well enough to strike fear into the hearts of other animals who seemingly feared nothing.

Agreed Hulk. If you could hypothetically conjure up some prime Tyson who wasn't an emotional wreck or whatever, then sure other people could have done more with that raw ability, but as things were he was very lucky to have people who cared and groomed him to begin with. He was going to peak very young no matter what, and obviously needed to be harnessed pretty much.

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

80% of Tyson's career was with shit trainers that wanted to see Tyson do the square-on weeble-wabble punch by numbers system. It really resent this because Tyson had good upper-body movement and a reliable chin so really could have put his attributes to better use.

I always felt that fighting more like James Toney (early-mid noughties) would have much better suited Tyson - as a more side-on fighter, not trying to load up on so much.

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But tyson had a short reach and was the smallest heavyweight so im not sure how that toney style would have worked for him.

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James Toney = 5ft 9/ 72 ins reach
Mike Tyson = 5ft 11/ 71 ins reach

No difference IMO

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Wlad fought a few cling-ons from the Lewis era no doubt, BUT he's fought far more guys that Lewis didn't fight and guys who have came up during Wlad's title reign because his title run has lasted that long. All the guys Wlad has fought that Lennox fought he's beaten them easily and typically early in his career: Botha, Mercer, Jackson, the latest one was Rahman who was never in the fight.

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Some of these fighters did not belong in the ring with Wlad - Rahman had no legs and Mercer had no resistance.

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Well that fight was the first anyone found out about it. Wlad was the very first fighter to knock Ray down with a punch to the head and the very first to stop Ray. Old or not that means something when a fighter does that.

Holyfield first did a little something to Rays punch resistance in the 8th round courtesy of two left hooks ;D

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Originally Posted by NVSemin

Recently rewatched Tyson vs Thomas fight

Tyson was not doing very well from round 2 to 6. Rooney was yelling at him some garbage "you gotta throw punches with bad intentions", his behavior in the corner reminded me of Teddy Atlas in Moorers fights. Mike won the fight because the did not throw any uppercut till the right moment in the round 6.

After this fight and previous with Bonecrasher Smith, I started to realise that Rooney was overrated. He was definitely better than Atlas and many others in the gym, mittwork and general stuff, but not in boxing strategy. What Mike should have done is to hire Angelo Dundee.

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Agree completely. Rooney was familiarity. Look at the old codger http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...psf59dd1d6.gif

The seventy year old that knocks you out when you get lippy. D'amato's use of his number system was tailor made for that style of fighting. Tysons mastery of the code was jaw dropping;D

He was simply not the same fighter after Cus passed. Thomas actually laid the blueprint on how to fight Tyson with or without Cus but not having Cus in the corner for the first he found himself in trouble must have been tough.