Mike Tyson is TBE

On Mike Tyson on lb for lb toplists...

Usually I would claim that no HW who has ALWAYS boxed in the unlimited division can ever rate lb for lb. Because only in the limited divisions do fighters require the complete set of boxing skills and attributes to be successful.

Therefore I would normally only consider former CW's whom were at the top of their game (David Haye, Evander Holyfield etc) who stepped up to HW as lb for lb material, because they proved their worth against guys their own size first and then stepped up to fight guys considerably larger than themselves at HW.

If I had to pick any NATURAL HW (200+) however who always boxed in the unlimited divsion, it would definitely be Mike Tyson, for a lb for lb toplist.

Whether he'd be successful with his style at CW were we to shrink him down to size though is unclear. He certainly seemed to have a great enough skillset for sure!

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Originally Posted by Max Power

On Mike Tyson on lb for lb toplists...

Usually I would claim that no HW who has ALWAYS boxed in the unlimited division can ever rate lb for lb. Because only in the limited divisions do fighters require the complete set of boxing skills and attributes to be successful.

Therefore I would normally only consider former CW's whom were at the top of their game (David Haye, Evander Holyfield etc) who stepped up to HW as lb for lb material, because they proved their worth against guys their own size first and then stepped up to fight guys considerably larger than themselves at HW.

If I had to pick any NATURAL HW (200+) however who always boxed in the unlimited divsion, it would definitely be Mike Tyson, for a lb for lb toplist.

Whether he'd be successful with his style at CW were we to shrink him down to size though is unclear. He certainly seemed to have a great enough skillset for sure!

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My point was that Mike Tyson mastered the essence of boxing science to the point, that he became too good for his time. It spoiled him.

In my opinion, technically, he was far advanced than all fighters up to this date.

Interesting perspective. I completely disagree though...

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Originally Posted by NVSemin

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Originally Posted by Max Power

On Mike Tyson on lb for lb toplists...

Usually I would claim that no HW who has ALWAYS boxed in the unlimited division can ever rate lb for lb. Because only in the limited divisions do fighters require the complete set of boxing skills and attributes to be successful.

Therefore I would normally only consider former CW's whom were at the top of their game (David Haye, Evander Holyfield etc) who stepped up to HW as lb for lb material, because they proved their worth against guys their own size first and then stepped up to fight guys considerably larger than themselves at HW.

If I had to pick any NATURAL HW (200+) however who always boxed in the unlimited divsion, it would definitely be Mike Tyson, for a lb for lb toplist.

Whether he'd be successful with his style at CW were we to shrink him down to size though is unclear. He certainly seemed to have a great enough skillset for sure!

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My point was that Mike Tyson mastered the essence of boxing science to the point, that he became too good for his time. It spoiled him.

In my opinion, technically, he was far advanced than all fighters up to this date.

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Oh there's absolutely no doubt about that. In fact he definitely did possess the skills necessary for a lb for lb comparison as well, now I can reflect more clearly on it.

He would have BADLY battered anything that came before as if they were nothing but bums from the street.

Alas.. Unless things have changed around here lately, you are about to earn the disrespect of a great many posters.

Stand by for the "Jack Johnson, Louis and Ali would have "TAKEN" Mike Tyson" responses LOL ;)

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by NVSemin

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Originally Posted by Max Power

On Mike Tyson on lb for lb toplists...

Usually I would claim that no HW who has ALWAYS boxed in the unlimited division can ever rate lb for lb. Because only in the limited divisions do fighters require the complete set of boxing skills and attributes to be successful.

Therefore I would normally only consider former CW's whom were at the top of their game (David Haye, Evander Holyfield etc) who stepped up to HW as lb for lb material, because they proved their worth against guys their own size first and then stepped up to fight guys considerably larger than themselves at HW.

If I had to pick any NATURAL HW (200+) however who always boxed in the unlimited divsion, it would definitely be Mike Tyson, for a lb for lb toplist.

Whether he'd be successful with his style at CW were we to shrink him down to size though is unclear. He certainly seemed to have a great enough skillset for sure!

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My point was that Mike Tyson mastered the essence of boxing science to the point, that he became too good for his time. It spoiled him.

In my opinion, technically, he was far advanced than all fighters up to this date.

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Oh there's absolutely no doubt about that. In fact he definitely did possess the skills necessary for a lb for lb comparison as well, now I can reflect more clearly on it.

He would have BADLY battered anything that came before as if they were nothing but bums from the street.

Alas.. Unless things have changed around here lately, you are about to earn the disrespect of a great many posters.

Stand by for the "Jack Johnson, Louis and Ali would have "TAKEN" Mike Tyson" responses LOL ;)

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Nice to see you back Max! Do you still feel the indomitable pugilistic specimen that only modern training and sports science could have produced, being of course Chrs Arreola, woud have beaten everyone before Tyson as well?? :D

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by NVSemin

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Originally Posted by Max Power

On Mike Tyson on lb for lb toplists...

Usually I would claim that no HW who has ALWAYS boxed in the unlimited division can ever rate lb for lb. Because only in the limited divisions do fighters require the complete set of boxing skills and attributes to be successful.

Therefore I would normally only consider former CW's whom were at the top of their game (David Haye, Evander Holyfield etc) who stepped up to HW as lb for lb material, because they proved their worth against guys their own size first and then stepped up to fight guys considerably larger than themselves at HW.

If I had to pick any NATURAL HW (200+) however who always boxed in the unlimited divsion, it would definitely be Mike Tyson, for a lb for lb toplist.

Whether he'd be successful with his style at CW were we to shrink him down to size though is unclear. He certainly seemed to have a great enough skillset for sure!

---

My point was that Mike Tyson mastered the essence of boxing science to the point, that he became too good for his time. It spoiled him.

In my opinion, technically, he was far advanced than all fighters up to this date.

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Oh there's absolutely no doubt about that. In fact he definitely did possess the skills necessary for a lb for lb comparison as well, now I can reflect more clearly on it.

He would have BADLY battered anything that came before as if they were nothing but bums from the street.

Alas.. Unless things have changed around here lately, you are about to earn the disrespect of a great many posters.

Stand by for the "Jack Johnson, Louis and Ali would have "TAKEN" Mike Tyson" responses LOL ;)

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Nice to see you back Max! Do you still feel the indomitable pugilistic specimen that only modern training and sports science could have produced, being of course Chrs Arreola, woud have beaten everyone before Tyson as well?? :D

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Why would you ask that? Because he lost to Bermane Stiverne.

Either Stiverne, Arreola or Tyson culd have lined every single one of them and knocked them out.

Please show me a 6'4" 240lb guy as tough and can fight like Chris from before 1980? Yeah right!

Chris was WINNING that fight before he got tagged flush by a counter right hand from one of the hardest punchers in history. I'd say that's a pretty good effort if you ask me.

Oh and by the way, hi :)

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by NVSemin

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Originally Posted by Max Power

On Mike Tyson on lb for lb toplists...

Usually I would claim that no HW who has ALWAYS boxed in the unlimited division can ever rate lb for lb. Because only in the limited divisions do fighters require the complete set of boxing skills and attributes to be successful.

Therefore I would normally only consider former CW's whom were at the top of their game (David Haye, Evander Holyfield etc) who stepped up to HW as lb for lb material, because they proved their worth against guys their own size first and then stepped up to fight guys considerably larger than themselves at HW.

If I had to pick any NATURAL HW (200+) however who always boxed in the unlimited divsion, it would definitely be Mike Tyson, for a lb for lb toplist.

Whether he'd be successful with his style at CW were we to shrink him down to size though is unclear. He certainly seemed to have a great enough skillset for sure!

---

My point was that Mike Tyson mastered the essence of boxing science to the point, that he became too good for his time. It spoiled him.

In my opinion, technically, he was far advanced than all fighters up to this date.

---

Oh there's absolutely no doubt about that. In fact he definitely did possess the skills necessary for a lb for lb comparison as well, now I can reflect more clearly on it.

He would have BADLY battered anything that came before as if they were nothing but bums from the street.

Alas.. Unless things have changed around here lately, you are about to earn the disrespect of a great many posters.

Stand by for the "Jack Johnson, Louis and Ali would have "TAKEN" Mike Tyson" responses LOL ;)

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Nice to see you back Max! Do you still feel the indomitable pugilistic specimen that only modern training and sports science could have produced, being of course Chrs Arreola, woud have beaten everyone before Tyson as well?? :D

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Why would you ask that? Because he lost to Bermane Stiverne.

Either Stiverne, Arreola or Tyson culd have lined every single one of them and knocked them out.

Please show me a 6'4" 240lb guy as tough and can fight like Chris from before 1980? Yeah right!

Chris was WINNING that fight before he got tagged flush by a counter right hand from one of the hardest punchers in history. I'd say that's a pretty good effort if you ask me.

Oh and by the way, hi :)

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Hardly, I made fun of you for rating Arreola so highly well before he proved me right ;) What on earth make Stiverne and Arreola comparable to Tyson in your eyes though, aside from the fact that they happen to have come after him. Why do I have to list a 6'4 240 lb guy who could beat Arreola instead of the dozens and dozens of men slightly smaller than that who would have beaten him? You don't think Tyson would have absolutely steamrolled him? If so, why is size such a benchmark to you?

I think Tyson would have great chances vs Chris Arreola or Stiverne.

But

Tyson never once beat anybody as big +good as Arreola

Or as good+heavy as Stiverne

So to answer your question, I DO rank Tyson ahead of these guys, but whether he would win against them in fact is an open question.

One thing is for sure, Tyson was stretched to the limit by guys whom either of these guys would have banged straight out. So no, Tyson could not steam roll either of them.

I still rate Arreola just a notch below Stiverne now, they are rather evenly matched.

Considering Tyson vs these guys is a valid question because he WAS special.

No pre80's HW was special, the better ones won against bums and cruisers mainly! With little exception.

Pre80's HW's could barely even box as we would describe it today.

You should probably just leave again.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

You should probably just leave again.

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Ouch

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Originally Posted by Max Power

I think Tyson would have great chances vs Chris Arreola or Stiverne.

But

Tyson never once beat anybody as big +good as Arreola

Or as good+heavy as Stiverne

So to answer your question, I DO rank Tyson ahead of these guys, but whether he would win against them in fact is an open question.

One thing is for sure, Tyson was stretched to the limit by guys whom either of these guys would have banged straight out. So no, Tyson could not steam roll either of them.

I still rate Arreola just a notch below Stiverne now, they are rather evenly matched.

Considering Tyson vs these guys is a valid question because he WAS special.

No pre80's HW was special, the better ones won against bums and cruisers mainly! With little exception.

Pre80's HW's could barely even box as we would describe it today.

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You have reminded me what a stupid poster you are. Even Arreleo's mum would slap you for saying such a stupid thing.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Max Power

I think Tyson would have great chances vs Chris Arreola or Stiverne.

But

Tyson never once beat anybody as big +good as Arreola

Or as good+heavy as Stiverne

So to answer your question, I DO rank Tyson ahead of these guys, but whether he would win against them in fact is an open question.

One thing is for sure, Tyson was stretched to the limit by guys whom either of these guys would have banged straight out. So no, Tyson could not steam roll either of them.

I still rate Arreola just a notch below Stiverne now, they are rather evenly matched.

Considering Tyson vs these guys is a valid question because he WAS special.

No pre80's HW was special, the better ones won against bums and cruisers mainly! With little exception.

Pre80's HW's could barely even box as we would describe it today.

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You have reminded me what a stupid poster you are. Even Arreleo's mum would slap you for saying such a stupid thing.

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Yes well I often wonder what guys like Arreola or Stiverne fr that mattter, think about being compared to such ludicrous opponents as they have been subjected to. Guys that boxed 50 or more years earlier which were about 5 weight classes below them and often failed to score knockouts against even WORSE opponents over a full 15 or even 20 rounds!

Guys like Jimmy Young etc can lost multiple fights against guys who would ever even box today, Yet someone like Arreola loses against guys as strong as never existed before and suddenly he can't box?

Something is wrong with this picture.

Fortunately Mike Tyson knew exactly where it was at..

I'll dig up the quote from Mike soon...

There is a very easy way to judge a fighters competition. It's a no brainer method.

Everybody knows it..

"Every era, is by and large, better (stronger, faster (p4p) and more skilled) than the one preceded it. Because athletes and sportsmen get better and better from generation to generation."

THIS^^^ Is simply how it works, and is supported by every fact, every statistic one could viably concoct. And it certainly LOOKS that way to me.

Mike Tyson vs Chris Arreola = valid debate

For example..

Wladimir Klitschko vs Jess Willard = definitely does NOT!

Max should be banned for his stupid posts.

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Originally Posted by Master

Max should be banned for his stupid posts.

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What, that boxers improve with each passing generation in general?

The fact you think that's a stupid position to take leaves me speechless.

Can you name any other sport where it's athletes from the black and white days would be competitive today?

They built a fight system into Mike, turned all his weakness into strengths. An evasive head hunter from below.Taught him how to break down distance fighters into stages then pass under the hilt of the sword,finish off using a lower center of gravity with massive leg work built around flexibility and mobility. They even got his old fears reversed inside him into him being the feared one,his anger focused into a pinpoint of commitment instead of being committed.
Some men were beat before they even entered the ring,they were in their through their own ego, which was becoming shattered already just on standing opposite someone who chose no gloss, dark persona, black garb, crazy and actually wanted to kill you with his past.

He had great trainers who were visionaries around him then; TBE.