Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
this should be in MMA, but i like the topic.
i used to compete in MMA. i am a muay thai instructor, and a boxer.
when i used to compete i always won using my hands. most of the kids i fought were kickboxers with alot more experience than me. due to their inability to take a punch, or adapt to a situation they normally ended up dropping early on.
i feel for numerous reasons that boxers have an advantage, but as everyone has outlined it depends on the fighter. so lets go with averages.
walk into your average kickboxing gym (which will most likely be a sports hall) and youll be intoduced to a new way of keeping fit. theyl have alot of emphasis on toning your abs and building mental strength.
walk into a boxing gym and you learn to fight
its a different system. certianly in the UK kickboxing is a fashion statement, and a commercial thing. its not cool to be a boxer, and we dont have boxing classes running after school etc.
in your first 5 weeks as a kick boxer youll learn how to balance when throwing a kick, how to hold kick shields for your partner, how to stand and move to throw the wide range of moves, and perhaps depending on your organisation, katas or forms (a sequence of moves, like a dance routine with fight moves)
in your first few weeks as a boxer youll go though gruelling fitness tests, youll learn the 6 punches that will make up your arsenal. youll learn the ways of avoiding them. yoll hammer at the bags and develop power behind the shots. then youll end up in the ring with somone just like you, and youll hit eachother with what youv learnt, and try to avoid being hit with the rest of it.
kickboxers as a general rule compete far slower than boxers, and it takes a lot longer for a kick boxer to reach the same level of skill as a boxer, purely because of the informal teaching and the greater number of moves. THIS IS DIFFERENT FOR EVERY GYM.
everyone says kicks have longer range. i agree. everyone says kicks are harder. i agree
but what good is a kick if you cant land it. if any of you have throw a kick with any real stopping power youll know your far more off balance then when you throw a punch.
now consider this.
a boxer learns to defend, slip and move away from a jab. how fast can you all throw your jabs? a boxer learns to read when his opponent is going to flick out that jab, how much do you all telegraph that jab of yours?
now think. a kickboxer throws a kick at you. its going to be far slower than that jab compared to that jab its going to be much easier to spot. kickboxers have MAJOR, and i mean MAJOR problems catching boxers. once they miss with their kick, not only does their game plan go to pot, as their main weapon is gone, but theyr heavily off blaance, and in a vunerable state.
as has been pointed out, OFTEN kickboxers dont have the same conditioning as boxers do. theyr used to all or nothing. i dont know many people who can take a roundhouse to the jaw, so they never really learn to take a hard but not extreme shock to the head.
in my mma competitions i floored people with shots wich i would consider "scoring" shots, or those i was using to set up something bigger. if i hit a boxer with them, it wouldnt have the same effect.
NOW, put a boxer and a kickboxer in a ring and it becomes a different story. a boxer is trapped. you know how ricky hatton back people into corners and onto the ropes to unload. imagine being backed onto the corner by a kickboxer, then taking a barrage of kicks. it doesnt work out to well for the boxers.
another thing is, boxers arent used to the way kickboxers fight! when somone throws a 1-2 we expect to left hook counter to the body etc. but what happens when a kick follows? you wont be able to read that movement, and we often end up being tagged in the head.
as has been pointed out,. sure we can move fast, but when we take alot of leg kicks we become sitting ducks for those kicks, and let me tell you, you cant block them like punches. try and stop a roundhouse with a wedge like you do a hook and your likely to end up with a broken arm.
in the ring, its a who gets to who scenario. if the boxer gets inside i dont think the kickboxer would be able to survive with the speed and work rate, aswell as the nullification of their best weapons.
if the kickboxer plays it right and doesnt get played then they will normally end up demolishing the boxer. it all happens on the night
in the street, i give the fight to a boxer. when we dont have rules we can punch to the groin, grapple, heabdut and elbow, punch in the back of the head, the neck and spine.
remember, just cause you havent been trained to do something doesnt mean its out of reach. alot of the best fighters iv come across dont have any training, just fighting expereince from a young age. they grapple, throw, kic punch etc.
kicking in a street fight is a foolish thing. not only do you run the risk of taking a horrible counter to the groin, but missing could literally prove fatal.
being off balance is not a good idea. even with no kicking expereince, kicking somone while their down on the floor is easy and very damaging. it doesnt take much to push somone on one leg over, especially if their body motion is going that way!
kicking gets you mightily stuck in closed situations too, walls restrict kicks, tables, bars, onlookers... you name it your likely to get caught on it, which means you might end up having to fight fists with a boxer... see where the problem arises!
my advice is to get expereince in whatever you can. i know how to counter, predict and block kicks to both the legs and head, so a kickboxers will have real problems with me. a mate of mine, danny taylor (crawley muay thai) used to be a boxer, so knows how to deal and trade with them once up close... the more you know the better you are!
so there you have it, my 2 cents. im sure ill get rippes to shreds, we seem to have alot of kick boxers on the forum. id like to point out that although we do respect and welcome you here, dont you see your fighting a losing battle? your on a boxing forum trying to convince us your matial art is better...
Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex w
my advice is to get expereince in whatever you can.... the more you know the better you are!
so there you have it, my 2 cents. im sure ill get rippes to shreds, we seem to have alot of kick boxers on the forum. id like to point out that although we do respect and welcome you here, dont you see your fighting a losing battle? your on a boxing forum trying to convince us your matial art is better...
I assume I was one of the people you thought would pick your post apart and disagree with you, but I don't see a lot to disagree with. I tend to think that most martial arts have their strengths and weaknesses and that if the end result is self defense, it's better to have a wider range of experience than a single martial art can give you.
Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
it seems to me in my experience with martial arts schools there is alot more watered down or not serious about competing schools so it gives martials arts a bad name when those students go out and think their bad asses especially if they enter competitions for everyone to see them get knocked out. it just seems its a little harder to run a boxing gym if your just trying to get people to do cardioboxing.
Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
Nice read Alex.W , exactly my thoughts on this subject also.
Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex w
your on a boxing forum trying to convince us your matial art is better...
which is exactly what you are trying to do with boxing.....
Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
in a street fight a good kick to the balls goes a long way, but punching always beats kicking. i've seen it loads of times. its just about who gets in htere first.
Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex w
your on a boxing forum trying to convince us your matial art is better...
which is exactly what you are trying to do with boxing.....
jeez talk abour ruin the moment! it would be the same if i went to karate.com and told them all boxing is superior.
Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
I've done some other martial arts, but I've been boxing for 6 months now. I did some light sparring a few weeks ago with a friend who trains in other MA's. The one thing I can tell you for certain is that boxing conditioning is FAR superior. He was sucking wind when I was was barely breathing.
Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbirdy
in a street fight a good kick to the balls goes a long way, but punching always beats kicking. i've seen it loads of times. its just about who gets in htere first.
Wrong, kicking is more powerful if you know where to and when to kick.
Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
he diddnt say it wasnt more powerful son, he just said punching beats kicking.
there is no wrong answer. dont call somone wrong. you have only your thoughts on the subject
Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
Vitali Klitshcko was former kickboxing champ, got KO with a kick. Put it this way, who would win, vitali allowed to kick or vitali not allowed to kick? Answer is pretty obvious. Boxing skills itself does not make it superior, its the training methods that makes it superior and in general who takes it. Most MA/kickboxers takes the art for self defence or fitness, most boxers in the gym train to compete...you can guess who will push themselves more.
I sparred some muay thai guys recently, they whooped my ass. Im easily the best boxer in the gym but I probably couldnt even beat the weaker muay thai fighters there. That is because they know how to defend from my punches whilst I dont have the natural instincts, reactions, reflexes, counters, defensive manouveres to their kicks. I try a 1-2 and I get a kick to the leg, sooner or later I find myself in a very akward position in how i move in out my opponent, which punches will work and how I get to them.
I've also done martial arts before so wasn't totally new to kicking but havent kicked in a long time.
Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
"Punches are quicker than kicks " - Victor Belfort :)
Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poom
"Punches are quicker than kicks " - Victor Belfort :)
This is true most of the time. But I would point out that there are plenty of MT guys that kick faster than lots of boxers can jab so it's not ALWAYS true that punches are faster. And there's no "c" in Vitor. ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_One77
Kicks are more powerful
This is true almost 100% of the time. Anybody who has taken a couple of weeks to develop half decent kicking technique kicks MUCH harder than they can punch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvrealdeal
Boxing skills itself does not make it superior, its the training methods that makes it superior and in general who takes it. Most MA/kickboxers takes the art for self defence or fitness, most boxers in the gym train to compete...you can guess who will push themselves more.
Some excellent points here. I still think if you compare MT Fighters from Thailand where the sport and the money are as big as boxing is here, the MT fighters win based on there arsenal and tolerance for pain. Speed and movement is comparable between good western boxers and good Thai kickboxers.
But as it's already been said before, we're talking about generalities. In reality, the better fighters wins. We all know Alex could go over to Thailand and beat the snot out of all those skinny Thai fighters with his left hand tied behind his back. :bowdown:
Re: Kickboxing vs. Boxing
he diddnt say it wasnt more powerful son, he just said punching beats kicking.
there is no wrong answer. dont call somone wrong. you have only your thoughts on the subject
alright, still think kicking is better if you know how use it, ever break a guy's kneecaps, what's he gonna do run, lol. No he's gonna be limping, going down on the ground, then you can start beating the s*** out of him
