Roy Jones Chin

it depends your definition of chinny. the problem is that people are thinking of a total glass jaw type of fighter which i dont believe that roy was. i also dont believe that he had a granite chin either. he had a decent enough chin to take shots here and there without getting wobbled or retreating.

it was no coincidence that the first fight with tarver was by far the worst that jones had ever looked. you could tell he wasnt the same jones. jones is a prime example of getting old overnight and i think it had to do with his gaining weight and then losing it. so yes, by that time, i would say he was a little more chinny than he was earlier in his career.

If there's one thing I have noticed over the years it's that all of the most elite boxers who hardly ever get hit, like Jones, are all accused of 2 things..

- They lack chin, and "hide" behind "skills" and/or "range" and/or "speed" and/or "strength"

AND

- They lack fundamental boxing skills, and "hide" behind "speed" and "reflexes" and "movement"

Therefore anybody who encapsulates the ideal boxing form, to beat the hell out of your opponent whilst barely getting hit back, automatically becomes WORSE than a guy who can barely box but takes a lot of punches.

Something is wrong with this picture I think.

It's actually ridiculous to think that Roy had a "weak" chin. Sure, he did not have a chin of iron or anything but he had to have "decent" chin. Otherwise he could not have been as successful as he was despite his skillset, championship level boxing demands your chin is atleast decent with regards to the calibre of your opposition.

And individual attributes are of only minor importance anyhow. Win/loss, and KO/non-KO and quality of opposition is what ultimately matters.

Roy Jones is among the best boxers lb for lb of all time. That counts for more than anything regarding his chin.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

I don't think he was before he drained himself back down to 175. Let's face facts RJJ vs Tarver would have been best done either BEFORE the Ruiz fight or after the Ruiz fight at CRUISERWEIGHT where RJJ at 199 would have been just fine. When Roy got KO'd by Tarver he got caught with a HUGE punch from a big puncher, when he got KO'd vs Glen Johnson he was getting out hustled, he had 0 pop in his punches, his stamina wasn't there, and again he got hammered by a guy who could bang pretty good.

That said he never really played with fire in terms of allowing himself to get hit he was always a guy who accepted a punch and then gave back punches harder and faster to quell the attack. He was never a face first brawler obviously.

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I pretty much agree with this completely!!

I always though that Jones should have called it a day after that fight with Ruiz, he had nothing left to prove, he dominated 175lbs division for years and then took on a HW because he had run out of challenges years before in his own division. He was obviously never going to beat Lennox and he knew that so all he could really do was go down in weight and after adding 20+lbs of muscle in his mid thirties it was never going to be easy and as you say he lacked the pop in his punches and stamina when he did go back down and I also believe he lost his punch resistance then too, although there wasn't much proof he had a great chin before as he very rarely got touched on it.

Lets be fair Tarver, Johnson and Calzaghe would not have beaten or even got close to beating a prime Roy Jones.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

I pretty much agree with this completely!!

I always though that Jones should have called it a day after that fight with Ruiz, he had nothing left to prove, he dominated 175lbs division for years and then took on a HW because he had run out of challenges years before in his own division. He was obviously never going to beat Lennox and he knew that so all he could really do was go down in weight and after adding 20+lbs of muscle in his mid thirties it was never going to be easy and as you say he lacked the pop in his punches and stamina when he did go back down and I also believe he lost his punch resistance then too, although there wasn't much proof he had a great chin before as he very rarely got touched on it.

Lets be fair Tarver, Johnson and Calzaghe would not have beaten or even got close to beating a prime Roy Jones.

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As a big Roy Jones fan, I wish he would have. At the time (after the first Tarver fight) he said he wanted a super fight with Mike Tyson (who IMO he would have beat at the time) and retired.

If he was talking about retiring, then you know his heart wasn't in the game anymore.

It's a shame how he went out because he truly was one of the all time greats, I've never seen anyone with the physical gifts he had and I probably never will.

Well I had hoped for 1 of 3 things for Roy's career when he went to heavyweight

1. Retire after fighting Ruiz

2. Defend the title vs heavyweights more his own size: Byrd, Toney, Jirov, Tyson, Holyfield etc

3. Drop to cruiserweight which would only be in name only as he was never truly a heavyweight and have some fights without getting weight drained.

RJJ just never rebounded from making the mistake of allowing Antonio Tarver to goad him into that first fight (a fight Roy STILL won). I think at cruiserweight he could have lasted a while longer and there were some decent fights available for him at heavyweight too

I think the notion of "chinny" fighters is the most over played aspect of the sport with the least amount of actual evidence supporting it. Nowadays a fighter gets dropped a few times and he's chinny. Considering the sports design, its not only one of the dumbest conclusions in boxing but also one of the funniest.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I think the notion of "chinny" fighters is the most over played aspect of the sport with the least amount of actual evidence supporting it. Nowadays a fighter gets dropped a few times and he's chinny. Considering the sports design, its not only one of the dumbest conclusions in boxing but also one of the funniest.

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It's like expecting a baseball player to never strike out or a basketball player to hit 100% of their free throws or a soccer player to hit 100% of their PK's.....getting tagged on the chin happens and for a career as long as RJJ's and at such a high level you can't really say "he was always chinny", he became chinny after the weight loss but he's also older and slower as well. All fighters age, it happens.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I think the notion of "chinny" fighters is the most over played aspect of the sport with the least amount of actual evidence supporting it. Nowadays a fighter gets dropped a few times and he's chinny. Considering the sports design, its not only one of the dumbest conclusions in boxing but also one of the funniest.

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It may be a bit over played, and most fans probably do have unrealistic expectation as to how much force a man should be able to withstand without losing consciousness.

That being said, punch resistance is a very real and significant factor in boxing and other combat sports. Not only the physical amount of force that a fighter can take, but how they react to getting rocked. Some guys can keep their composure and do the right things to survive (Mayweather/Mosley) and some guys get the "deer in headlights" look and don't know what to do (Tommy Hearns).

I agree though people tend to jump to conclusions, getting dropped a handful of times could be other problems (being off balance, overaggressive, slow/jittery starter). Tito was a good example of that IMO. But being chinny is a curse. You can always improve skills, you can always get in better shape, but if you can't take a punch, you can't take a punch. I've never seen a guy develop a chin, or suddenly become smarter when hurt. That's with you for life.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Well I had hoped for 1 of 3 things for Roy's career when he went to heavyweight

1. Retire after fighting Ruiz

2. Defend the title vs heavyweights more his own size: Byrd, Toney, Jirov, Tyson, Holyfield etc

3. Drop to cruiserweight which would only be in name only as he was never truly a heavyweight and have some fights without getting weight drained.

RJJ just never rebounded from making the mistake of allowing Antonio Tarver to goad him into that first fight (a fight Roy STILL won). I think at cruiserweight he could have lasted a while longer and there were some decent fights available for him at heavyweight too

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I remember RJJ eventually downplaying a fight with Holy because he knew some would claim Evander was washed up.

But as you've stated he had some options..Good ones..including retire after Ruiz.
Hurts to see him fighting on, out of the spotlight with little to no reflexes he once had in abundance.

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Well I had hoped for 1 of 3 things for Roy's career when he went to heavyweight

1. Retire after fighting Ruiz

2. Defend the title vs heavyweights more his own size: Byrd, Toney, Jirov, Tyson, Holyfield etc

3. Drop to cruiserweight which would only be in name only as he was never truly a heavyweight and have some fights without getting weight drained.

RJJ just never rebounded from making the mistake of allowing Antonio Tarver to goad him into that first fight (a fight Roy STILL won). I think at cruiserweight he could have lasted a while longer and there were some decent fights available for him at heavyweight too

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I remember RJJ eventually downplaying a fight with Holy because he knew some would claim Evander was washed up.

But as you've stated he had some options..Good ones..including retire after Ruiz.
Hurts to see him fighting on, out of the spotlight with little to no reflexes he once had in abundance.

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Hardest thing for me to see is how awkward he looks now. Trying to hold his hands up or out like he really doesnt know what to do with them but he knows in the back of his mind he cant trust is reflexes enough to drop them like he used to and fully relax. If he just stylistically overhauled, like mayweather did (started trying to fight out of the middle of the ring after he knew his legs were going ) , you'd just kind of understand he had to do what he had to do. Its less exciting. With Roy, he looks like he knows what could happen at any second if he gets caught in a bad spot, and he's trying to resolve physically what he's already come to terms with in his mind.

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Originally Posted by J_Undisputed

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Well I had hoped for 1 of 3 things for Roy's career when he went to heavyweight

1. Retire after fighting Ruiz

2. Defend the title vs heavyweights more his own size: Byrd, Toney, Jirov, Tyson, Holyfield etc

3. Drop to cruiserweight which would only be in name only as he was never truly a heavyweight and have some fights without getting weight drained.

RJJ just never rebounded from making the mistake of allowing Antonio Tarver to goad him into that first fight (a fight Roy STILL won). I think at cruiserweight he could have lasted a while longer and there were some decent fights available for him at heavyweight too

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I remember RJJ eventually downplaying a fight with Holy because he knew some would claim Evander was washed up.

But as you've stated he had some options..Good ones..including retire after Ruiz.
Hurts to see him fighting on, out of the spotlight with little to no reflexes he once had in abundance.

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Hardest thing for me to see is how awkward he looks now. Trying to hold his hands up or out like he really doesnt know what to do with them but he knows in the back of his mind he cant trust is reflexes enough to drop them like he used to and fully relax. If he just stylistically overhauled, like mayweather did (started trying to fight out of the middle of the ring after he knew his legs were going ) , you'd just kind of understand he had to do what he had to do. Its less exciting. With Roy, he looks like he knows what could happen at any second if he gets caught in a bad spot, and he's trying to resolve physically what he's already come to terms with in his mind.

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I remember listening to Ray Robinson talking about his demise.

He said something to the effect that when he was young he would throw punches and create at that moment, but as he got older he found himself having to "think" his punches.

I interpeted with what you stated: Ray/Roy knows what could happen at any second if he gets caught in a bad spot, and he's trying to resolve physically what he's already come to terms with in his mind----

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I think the notion of "chinny" fighters is the most over played aspect of the sport with the least amount of actual evidence supporting it. Nowadays a fighter gets dropped a few times and he's chinny. Considering the sports design, its not only one of the dumbest conclusions in boxing but also one of the funniest.

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It's like expecting a baseball player to never strike out or a basketball player to hit 100% of their free throws or a soccer player to hit 100% of their PK's.....getting tagged on the chin happens and for a career as long as RJJ's and at such a high level you can't really say "he was always chinny", he became chinny after the weight loss but he's also older and slower as well. All fighters age, it happens.

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Indeed. George Chuvalo did a recent (last week) interview on CBC on a program called Mansbridge one on one. Just an amazing man and its incredible how lucid and sharp he is. Odd as it may sound, he claims that one can strengthen a chin by actually being punched. It sounds crazy at first but it most likely makes some scientific sense. He says you develop a resistance and its less shock mentally and physically after you have been punched going through the ranks. So based on his theory although unstated from him, guys that are rarely touched throughout their career may be susceptible to going down on a nice shot or even getting planked.

Now George is not one to boast so he would not suggest that some people like himself, Gavilan and the like were born with concrete chins. And of course there are jello chinned individuals also like Eric Crumble but I think there are very few real chinless fighters at the elite level overall.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I think the notion of "chinny" fighters is the most over played aspect of the sport with the least amount of actual evidence supporting it. Nowadays a fighter gets dropped a few times and he's chinny. Considering the sports design, its not only one of the dumbest conclusions in boxing but also one of the funniest.

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It's like expecting a baseball player to never strike out or a basketball player to hit 100% of their free throws or a soccer player to hit 100% of their PK's.....getting tagged on the chin happens and for a career as long as RJJ's and at such a high level you can't really say "he was always chinny", he became chinny after the weight loss but he's also older and slower as well. All fighters age, it happens.

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Having boxed myself for seven years, if you have never been knocked down then you haven't sparred or fought anybody or you are a fucking animal.


That said...Wlad is chinny. lol

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Originally Posted by Hulk

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

I think the notion of "chinny" fighters is the most over played aspect of the sport with the least amount of actual evidence supporting it. Nowadays a fighter gets dropped a few times and he's chinny. Considering the sports design, its not only one of the dumbest conclusions in boxing but also one of the funniest.

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It's like expecting a baseball player to never strike out or a basketball player to hit 100% of their free throws or a soccer player to hit 100% of their PK's.....getting tagged on the chin happens and for a career as long as RJJ's and at such a high level you can't really say "he was always chinny", he became chinny after the weight loss but he's also older and slower as well. All fighters age, it happens.

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Having boxed myself for seven years, if you have never been knocked down then you haven't sparred or fought anybody or you are a fucking animal.


That said...Wlad is chinny. lol

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It's around 2 years since I last came on here but I couldn't bare to away from the goading of Lyle a moment longer, lol.

Hahaha @Hulk ....all that means is that Wlad is one phenomenal boxer to be so dominant for so long with such a weakness there waiting to be exposed ;)