The Official Saddo's Pound 4 Pound List & bickering thread...

you should all notice that even as a huge Toney fan I have left him out, that's objectivity, coolclick me

Here you go guys :)

[attachment deleted by admin to make more space]

:coolclick: for that fella - Quality !!! ;)

i think manny should be # 2

1. PBF
2. Barrera
3. PAC
4. Winky
5. Castillo
6. Calzaghe
7. R. Marquez
8. Cotto
9. Taylor
10. Ivan Calderon

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

you should all notice that even as a huge Toney fan I have left him out, that's objectivity, coolclick me

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:coolclick: Dizun!

On the subject of P4P...I do honestly believe that Toney should be dropped & Taylor should be added at the 10 spot thus moving the list back into place...anyone?

Talk to me?

The problem I see with the Saddo Pound for Pound ratings is it is very flavour of the month.

I do not agree with the order of the top four, but I have no problem with it, as there can be a sensible argument to place it the way it is.

But Joe Calzaghe is very much, an example of what I am talking about.

No doubt he looked brilliant beating Lacy, but how good is Lacy? I mean Mayweather could look absolutely as good beating some unknown unbeaten fighter, but he would get little kudos for winning that, because it was expected. The truth is Lacy was probably highly overrated and thus when he met some quality in Calzaghe he was exposed, but that does not mean Joe show becomes a top 10 pound for pound fighter like that. I did not place Hatton in the top 10 straight after the Tszyu fight, as I felt his lacked of quality before the Tszyu bout, meant he needed another win, just to prove he is for real, I think the same applies for Calzaghe.

And the Toney situation proves this. A flavour of the month pick, no one questioned the fact he failed a steroids test, and would not be able to benefit from them whilst fighting Rahman...

Toney had beaten Ruiz and an ancient Holyfield, IMO, that CLEARLY does not make you a top fighter. And now that has been proven.

But fighters who have beaten top notch opposition like Taylor and Tarver are not placed, because People do not like them, and they are not the flavour of the month.....

I will say Saddo's Pound for pound ranking are unique, but weather the lack of criterion to make the list is a good thing or not, I guess only time will tell...

Anyway well done so far Wacko for trying to do something, keep up the good work [click]

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Originally Posted by Britkid

The problem I see with the Saddo Pound for Pound ratings is it is very flavour of the month.

I do not agree with the order of the top four, but I have no problem with it, as there can be a sensible argument to place it the way it is.

But Joe Calzaghe is very much, an example of what I am talking about.

No doubt he looked brilliant beating Lacy, but how good is Lacy? I mean Mayweather could look absolutely as good beating some unknown unbeaten fighter, but he would get little kudos for winning that, because it was expected. The truth is Lacy was probably highly overrated and thus when he met some quality in Calzaghe he was exposed, but that does not mean Joe show becomes a top 10 pound for pound fighter like that. I did not place Hatton in the top 10 straight after the Tszyu fight, as I felt his lacked of quality before the Tszyu bout, meant he needed another win, just to prove he is for real, I think the same applies for Calzaghe.

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:thumb:
NICE


i do think toney should be dropped

I agree that Toney should be dropped...but Calzaghe is the best P4P in his division...he has been for years.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

I agree that Toney should be dropped...but Calzaghe is the best P4P in his division...he has been for years.

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There are 17 weight divisions, and only 10 spots on the Pound for Pound list, so by default at least seven of the leading fighters in a division Will not be on the list.

One of these seven, should be Calzaghe, he is in an extremely weak division and as is so high on the list on the strength of a victory over a with hindsight unproven and probably overrated fighter.

He is a classsic example of a flavour of the month pick ;)

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

I agree that Toney should be dropped...but Calzaghe is the best P4P in his division...he has been for years.

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There are 17 weight divisions, and only 10 spots on the Pound for Pound list, so by default at least seven of the leading fighters in a division Will not be on the list.

One of these seven, should be Calzaghe, he is in an extremely weak division and as is so high on the list on the strength of a victory over a with hindsight unproven and probably overrated fighter.

He is a classsic example of a flavour of the month pick ;)

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Regardless of the division, the longest reigning world champion can hardly be "flavour of the month"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

The problem I see with the Saddo Pound for Pound ratings is it is very flavour of the month.

I do not agree with the order of the top four, but I have no problem with it, as there can be a sensible argument to place it the way it is.

But Joe Calzaghe is very much, an example of what I am talking about.

No doubt he looked brilliant beating Lacy, but how good is Lacy? I mean Mayweather could look absolutely as good beating some unknown unbeaten fighter, but he would get little kudos for winning that, because it was expected. The truth is Lacy was probably highly overrated and thus when he met some quality in Calzaghe he was exposed, but that does not mean Joe show becomes a top 10 pound for pound fighter like that. I did not place Hatton in the top 10 straight after the Tszyu fight, as I felt his lacked of quality before the Tszyu bout, meant he needed another win, just to prove he is for real, I think the same applies for Calzaghe.

And the Toney situation proves this. A flavour of the month pick, no one questioned the fact he failed a steroids test, and would not be able to benefit from them whilst fighting Rahman...

Toney had beaten Ruiz and an ancient Holyfield, IMO, that CLEARLY does not make you a top fighter. And now that has been proven.

But fighters who have beaten top notch opposition like Taylor and Tarver are not placed, because People do not like them, and they are not the flavour of the month.....

I will say Saddo's Pound for pound ranking are unique, but weather the lack of criterion to make the list is a good thing or not, I guess only time will tell...

Anyway well done so far Wacko for trying to do something, keep up the good work [click]

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What method are you using to compile your list Britkid?

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Originally Posted by Britkid

The problem I see with the Saddo Pound for Pound ratings is it is very flavour of the month.

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Okay...I'd like to go ahead & address this as best as I can & not try to sound as defensive as I can...because it is going to sound defensive...but don't take it that way people...& Britkid.

Here we go...IWO all of the fighters are deserving of being in this list. They have all either worked their way up the ladder to get there names on the list or they have bested a man that was not expected to be bested.

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Originally Posted by Britkid

I do not agree with the order of the top four, but I have no problem with it, as there can be a sensible argument to place it the way it is.

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You do not agree with the order...but you do indeed agree with the men in the spots right? If that is the case...then I agree with you. I don't agree with the order...but I do agree with the players. Here again...I can't really control this thing as much as I can only listen to what the majority of posters have voted on last year.

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Originally Posted by Britkid

But Joe Calzaghe is very much, an example of what I am talking about.

No doubt he looked brilliant beating Lacy, but how good is Lacy? I mean Mayweather could look absolutely as good beating some unknown unbeaten fighter, but he would get little kudos for winning that, because it was expected. The truth is Lacy was probably highly overrated and thus when he met some quality in Calzaghe he was exposed, but that does not mean Joe show becomes a top 10 pound for pound fighter like that. I did not place Hatton in the top 10 straight after the Tszyu fight, as I felt his lacked of quality before the Tszyu bout, meant he needed another win, just to prove he is for real, I think the same applies for Calzaghe.

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Now...as far as Calzaghe goes...the man is undefeated in 41 fights. I hate it...but that is a man that is deserving of P4P rankings...if he's not...I don't know who on the list really is. If Hatton's worthy...Joe Calzaghe certainly is. Many people & many writers thought that Lacy was P4P material...look what happened. Why did it happen? Because Jeff Lacy was arguably the best @ 168...but in all reality...he met the best & got bested. I don't really want to split hairs over this...but Hatton IWO is deserving of a spot...but not on the Kostya win alone...he beat another title holder...who I would never have ranked in any list period myself...& that kinda jumped him up I suppose.

In the end...a P4P list does indeed factor in many aspects other than just skill alone...ofcourse it involves favorites...but these men do deserve to be on this list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

And the Toney situation proves this. A flavour of the month pick, no one questioned the fact he failed a steroids test, and would not be able to benefit from them whilst fighting Rahman...

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James Toney on the other hand does not add up to me either...but the people voted & there you have it. Then again...Toney did beat Ruiz & he did beat Guinn...& even though those are not what I would consider champions...they actually are in the current state of the division the better opponants to fight because the others were already committed.

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Toney had beaten Ruiz and an ancient Holyfield, IMO, that CLEARLY does not make you a top fighter. And now that has been proven.

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Agreed. I truly would have left Toney off of this list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

But fighters who have beaten top notch opposition like Taylor and Tarver are not placed, because People do not like them, and they are not the flavour of the month.....

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Agreed again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

I will say Saddo's Pound for pound ranking are unique, but weather the lack of criterion to make the list is a good thing or not, I guess only time will tell...

Anyway well done so far Wacko for trying to do something, keep up the good work [click]

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Personally...I think that Taylor should be on the list. Tarver should also...& we had a lot of heat in that decision to keep them both off of the list...no one said that this was going to be an easy task...but we can all get it ironed out...just a bit more work & we can get it set in stone...that's why the big boss got this page up & running.

Everyone contribute their lists & I will go back & revise the page tonight...no biggie.

We can slip Taylor or Tarver on as they are both worthy fighters with the dispatching of Hopkins & Jones respectively.

Taylor has taken Toney's spot @ #9.

Now we have to figure out what to do with Tarver...should we remove Chris John from the list & bring in Tarver?

The other players on the list are, IWO, pretty much on point...but maybe not the alignment...let's try this again people...

Thoughts?