Is Wladimir Klitschko a "Warrior" like Holyfield/Frazier/Marciano?

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Well he doesn't really have to be does he? His talent and technique keep him out of the battles those guys were in and those kinds of battles can really shorten a career.

What does it matter if he goes to war or not when he wins all the time? I just don't see the point of knit picking how Wlad fights, the point is to WIN and Wlad puts a check mark beside that in his fights....it's boxing, not rock'em sock'em robots, there's skill involved here.

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Technically, you are right.

But he stands to retire like Floyd: someone who can be called a great boxer, but not a great fighter.

It's not about fighting till one gets brain damage, it's about having a legacy where fans can reminisce on his career with great stories to tell.

Not reminiscing on his statistics.

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Can't disagree with you more! Boxers fight with what they have; intelligence, who they are inside, and the way they are trained. Many of them have a natural inclination to get right to it and bang away, most of them are inclined to hit and not be hit, some do both, and some don't want to be hit at all.
None of them are under any obligation to expose themselves to brain damage to keep the fans happy and reminiscing about the fights they've seen!
When your wife, lady friend, mother, or smart phone calls you at work to remind you of a doctor's appointment, do you think, "No way, cancel that damn thing. I want my co-workers, the boss, the stockholders, and my family to reminisce about the way I died on the f*cking job!" Piss on being a warrior, the race you want to win is outliving your enemies!
Marciano and Frazier would probably say they wish they could have fought the way Wald fights. One thing is sure, their careers would have been longer and easier.
I love a slug fest as much as the next person, but I'll be winching through the whole thing and absolutely not thinking this is the way boxing should be!

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lol, I can't disagree with you enough (on this topic) as well. ;D
But it's all good.

I agree with your take on boxers. But we have also concluded there are those called boxer-Punchers which aren't brawlers.


IMO Wlad doesn't fight because he wants to be smart in the ring. It's not his makeup. Not in him.

Ray Leonard is a good example of aboxer-puncher. knew how to box, but when he got his skills compromised, he knew how to bang. So....:rolleyes: Does he slurr today? Nope.

What about Julio Cesar Chavez? While I don't speak Spanish, I know stuttering and slurring when it's done.
JCC wasn't a club fighter, right? He was an inside banger who used subtle shit on the inside. Only a warrior could or would dare to fight in close. Too many risks. Remember how he took away Edwin Rosario offense, using his elbow and forearms to block then counter in close quarters.

Hopkins another boxer who can minimize the punches he takes by clinching just like Wlad or Lennox. All 3 over use the clinch. However, Lennox and Hop got junk yard dog inside them when needed. Neither guy today is punch drunk.

Pernell Whitaker master boxer who didn't rely on clinching to ...not get hit. It takes a brave hombre to stand in front of their foe and just make them miss.

I agree that a fighter shouldn't take punishment for the sake of it. But that isn't my argument. Mines Is in agreement with Brock. Wlad doesn't have it in him to fight.

Some guys like Arturro Gatti throw caution to the wind blow for blow toe to toe like Israel Vazquez vs Marquez. Or Provodnikov vs MathysseSome boxers will fight with a cautious approach

Some boxers live to entertain like Emanuel Augustus, so I disagree with you that (all) boxers should try to hit and not get hit.
I do agree with you that all boxers should use whatever skills, gifts they have.

That means whenever a boxer has their skill compromised, and claim clinching is all they got????
Cool. But don't call that a trait of a warrior anymore than to just stand and trade.
That's a crazy dude lol

Wlad again is a brave person for choosing a hurt game. But that doesn't make him a warrior. He ain't nothing close to a warrior.

Wlad clinches out of reflex, not as a pre determined act.

Wlad clinches out of reflex.

BANG ON RIGHT THERE.

it ain't his strategy. It just happens out of fear and a lil help from some octopus arms. Mwa ha ho ho ho

@ kabong, beenkod

Great posts and top notch boxing insight. I think the difference here is that you both point out that Wlad shouldn't have to bang to win, if he can box and win.

Your arguments are solid.

2 final comments from me
1.boxers of old didn't practice hit and not get hit. 1900-1960 bar a few like Benny Leonard,

But the rest like uh..Jack Dempsey to Armstrong, Willie pep , fritzie zivac, Rocky grazing, Martciano....
It wasn't until clay aka Ali came along that the phrase took on meaning.
Previously it was called barbarism.

2. Even Floyd has fights with ndou, Hernandez, Corrales, Corley where he stood toe to toe. Floyd IMO fights safety first as a game plan. When he clinches; it's a choice he makes. Clinch, become mobile, or...use that somewhat illegal elbow to defend.
Wlad has one means to defend in the trenches: clinch. That imo isn't by choice. That big muthatrucka clinches to keep a fight from actually happening.

I am with El Kabong here. The idea of pro boxing is surely to make as much money as you can, whilst having as little damage as possible happen to you?!

Being called a warrior by a few thousand fans on the Internet, does not in itself pay the bills.

I am personally not the biggest fan of either brother, but I will say this:

Even in this relatively weak era, to be generally considered one of the two best Heavyweights for over a decade, takes a mental strength that only the likes of Holyfield, Frazier and Marciano can relate to.

Now understand this...

Wlad will get beaten on the 28th of November.

The only thing he can do to avoid getting beaten isnt holding, its pulling out again.

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Originally Posted by ross

Now understand this...

Wlad will get beaten on the 28th of November.

The only thing he can do to avoid getting beaten isnt holding, its pulling out again.

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I hope you can make me eat some humble pie on the Sunday morning of the 29th, but it will not be happening. Fury's 'victory' will be surviving into the last third of the fight.

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

@ kabong, beenkod

Great posts and top notch boxing insight. I think the difference here is that you both point out that Wlad shouldn't have to bang to win, if he can box and win.

Your arguments are solid.

2 final comments from me
1.boxers of old didn't practice hit and not get hit. 1900-1960 bar a few like Benny Leonard,

But the rest like uh..Jack Dempsey to Armstrong, Willie pep , fritzie zivac, Rocky grazing, Martciano....
It wasn't until clay aka Ali came along that the phrase took on meaning.
Previously it was called barbarism.

2. Even Floyd has fights with ndou, Hernandez, Corrales, Corley where he stood toe to toe. Floyd IMO fights safety first as a game plan. When he clinches; it's a choice he makes. Clinch, become mobile, or...use that somewhat illegal elbow to defend.
Wlad has one means to defend in the trenches: clinch. That imo isn't by choice. That big muthatrucka clinches to keep a fight from actually happening.

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Willie Pep most certainly did NOT brawl sir! He would move and feint and land punches, but he rarely if ever stood right in front of an opponent and allowed himself to get hit...totally not his style. There have ALWAYS been pure boxers in the sport James J. Corbett was one of the very first to hone the sweet science but there's a fine long tradition of good boxers, smart boxers, avoiding all out wars....Gene Tunney for one, very smart, very skilled. Benny Lenard you mentioned already and rightfully so. Jack Johnson avoided brawling.

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Originally Posted by ross

Now understand this...

Wlad will get beaten on the 28th of November.

The only thing he can do to avoid getting beaten isnt holding, its pulling out again.

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That's what your father should have done ;)

El Kabong if you want to go down that route...

Your dad tried but when he pulled out of her ass his shit infused spunk dribbled in your old girls gaping bucket...


;D

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Originally Posted by ross

El Kabong if you want to go down that route...

Your dad tried but when he pulled out of her ass his shit infused spunk dribbled in your old girls gaping bucket...


;D

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Hahaha.... good response







.....but mine was funnier ;D

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by ross

El Kabong if you want to go down that route...

Your dad tried but when he pulled out of her ass his shit infused spunk dribbled in your old girls gaping bucket...


;D

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Hahaha.... good response







.....but mine was funnier ;D

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It wasnt, its been done every time a fighter pulls out against Tyson. Its a go to response.

Wlad has shown heart in defeat he gets back up and fights gamely. Wlad has guts and intelligence and it is up to the opponents to bring out the warrior in Wlad.

Mr. Klitschko is a prize fighter in the manly art of self defense you don't get there by registering for neurosurgical surgery at the beginning of your career. You train, you learn and you practice what you learn in the ring. I am not his biggest fan and he pisses me off but he is the guy in the ring and he does KO quite a few people and his chin allegedly has been tested when he should have been more alert he fought like he took a sleeping pill on occasion. Yes and as Sonny Liston said about Ernie Terrell who was the alphabet champion opposite Ali in the sixties, "He hugs me more than my wife." The style works and his fan base has grown but great? His chin's past questionable, his adaptability and concentration and oh yes, the WWE tactics are his and it is up to the opponent to solve it if he gets past that murderous jab. Oh yes, how many great referees are there that will challenge his tactics and control his part of the fight, enforcement of the rules? So the question is can he be regarded as a warrior in the same breath as the three mentioned? No but pissing me off or not he is the champ and like him or not he still entertains.

Isnt it a shame for those who both love Klitschko and loathe Fury that Klitschkos reign will be ended by Fury.

The most dominant and impressive run of any heavyweight for a long time will come to a halt at the hands of Tyson Fury. Haye knew better than to have that as his career epitaph.

It will happen whether you want to believe it or not. Just imagine now what that does to Klitschkos career. Will he suddenly be old? Or will Tyson get his dues?

I hope you all give Tyson his dues.

If Tyson wins then he should get the credit he deserves. To beat a champion who has held the title for over 10 years and record number of defenses beating Lewis, Tyson and Holmes title defences. It would be an amazing win.

A gun shy champion who uses the tools he has to maximum effect - but never set the world alight doing it, despite having major size advantage in most fights. I'm trying to recall some Wlad victories by first or second round knockouts ??

Haye couldn't knock him out when he claimed he would but let's not forget Wlad said he'd knock out Haye too.

Had he been a few inches shorter he would have been an also ran.