Re: Roy Jones. Great read
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Also worth saying Roy Jones started boxing seriously as a child. Hopkins didn't(could be wrong here) until he was 20 something and in prison. Not saying Roy wasn't a good deal more physically gifted either, but lots of that had to come from having spent his entire life training. At the time they fought, he had clearly worked much harder, nobody is that much of a natural in a boxing ring.
Roy did everything wrong, and that was his greatest strength. He was all instinct and ridiculous talent. It is why Roy will never be even a decent trainer-it's impossible to teach what he did.
Floyd, Whitaker, Hop, Hagler...etc., all of those guys had skill. Learned skill. They all had great jabs that they used often, fought in numerous ways/were multi-dimensional, and would use strategy in the ring.
Roy was ridiculously fast. No, his speed was ludicrous. He would break the rules and it didn't matter because his instinct, reflexes and speed were of another planet. Roy rarely used a jab, preferring to use his natural gifts to float around the ring and pot shot when openings presented themselves.
As he got older, Roy would save his legs by laying on the ropes, catching shots on his shell defense, and using his blazing speed and power to intimidate the other fighter into submission. Watch their first fight again. Roy didn't beat Hop because he was better/more skillful, he beat him due to speed and his unorthodox style...
Re: Roy Jones. Great read
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Also worth saying Roy Jones started boxing seriously as a child. Hopkins didn't(could be wrong here) until he was 20 something and in prison. Not saying Roy wasn't a good deal more physically gifted either, but lots of that had to come from having spent his entire life training. At the time they fought, he had clearly worked much harder, nobody is that much of a natural in a boxing ring.
Roy did everything wrong, and that was his greatest strength. He was all instinct and ridiculous talent. It is why Roy will never be even a decent trainer-it's impossible to teach what he did.
Floyd, Whitaker, Hop, Hagler...etc., all of those guys had skill. Learned skill. They all had great jabs that they used often, fought in numerous ways/were multi-dimensional, and would use strategy in the ring.
Roy was ridiculously fast. No, his speed was ludicrous. He would break the rules and it didn't matter because his instinct, reflexes and speed were of another planet. Roy rarely used a jab, preferring to use his natural gifts to float around the ring and pot shot when openings presented themselves.
As he got older, Roy would save his legs by laying on the ropes, catching shots on his shell defense, and using his blazing speed and power to intimidate the other fighter into submission. Watch their first fight again. Roy didn't beat Hop because he was better/more skillful, he beat him due to speed and his unorthodox style...
That my friend is called boxing skill of the highest order. Roy was more than just speed he had the skill to apply that and was literally untouchable.
A friend of mine asked me years ago when Roy was in his prime had Roy lost a fight yet. I said he had not lost a round never mind a fight. I then played the Pazienza fight and he said rewind that knock out again because he could not believe the final combinations.
I would have Roy's career over BHop, Sweet Pea or Floyd's.
Re: Roy Jones. Great read
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
The point he made about being the hardest working boxer ever was really hard hitting. He said he is not just reflex, speed and skill because a lot of fighters can have that but working hard makes him different to them. Roy worked harder that Toney and Hopkins and beat them easy, they were great fighters but Roy is a legend.
Have to disagree with you here, Master (respectfully, of course!). Roy worked very hard, but Hop's work ethic is legendary. Roy was far more physically gifted than Hop, and that is what led to him beating Hop the first time around.
Also, I can't see an argument for placing Roy over Hop historically. Hop accomplished much more and beat MUCH tougher competition (mostly while past his prime). On Roy's best night he was an ATG fighter, without a doubt. That being said, he let his prime slip away without many meaningful fights and will never be placed as high as he or his fans feel he should be (historical ranking).
I agree that Roy out worked and was the greater fighter than Toney, however. Roy outclassed James head to head, and made that fight look easy. Roy was also much more consistent and always in fighting shape, where James REALLY loved fast food joints at midnight....
I like B Hop but Roy was better and has achieved greater things when he won a version of the heavyweight belt and was the best at middle, supermiddle and light heavy limits.
Once again, I think that is up for debate. Roy never cleaned out any division he was in, and missed a TON of competition at 168. His accomplishment of winning a title at 160 and heavyweight was impressive, but was also put into perspective when a fat James Toney beat the same John Ruiz for a title. Roy's quality of opposition kills him in my opinion, and it is difficult for me to see ranking him higher than Hop considering Hop's superior quality of competition, middleweight reign, first to unify all titles, and age records.
Re: Roy Jones. Great read
Roy was the best fighter most of us have ever seen and we are boxing nerds so that says it all.
Re: Roy Jones. Great read
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Also worth saying Roy Jones started boxing seriously as a child. Hopkins didn't(could be wrong here) until he was 20 something and in prison. Not saying Roy wasn't a good deal more physically gifted either, but lots of that had to come from having spent his entire life training. At the time they fought, he had clearly worked much harder, nobody is that much of a natural in a boxing ring.
Roy did everything wrong, and that was his greatest strength. He was all instinct and ridiculous talent. It is why Roy will never be even a decent trainer-it's impossible to teach what he did.
Floyd, Whitaker, Hop, Hagler...etc., all of those guys had skill. Learned skill. They all had great jabs that they used often, fought in numerous ways/were multi-dimensional, and would use strategy in the ring.
Roy was ridiculously fast. No, his speed was ludicrous. He would break the rules and it didn't matter because his instinct, reflexes and speed were of another planet. Roy rarely used a jab, preferring to use his natural gifts to float around the ring and pot shot when openings presented themselves.
As he got older, Roy would save his legs by laying on the ropes, catching shots on his shell defense, and using his blazing speed and power to intimidate the other fighter into submission. Watch their first fight again. Roy didn't beat Hop because he was better/more skillful, he beat him due to speed and his unorthodox style...
That my friend is called boxing skill of the highest order. Roy was more than just speed he had the skill to apply that and was literally untouchable.
A friend of mine asked me years ago when Roy was in his prime had Roy lost a fight yet. I said he had not lost a round never mind a fight. I then played the Pazienza fight and he said rewind that knock out again because he could not believe the final combinations.
I would have Roy's career over BHop, Sweet Pea or Floyd's.
Roy was brilliant, no doubt. I think the fact that you showed your friend the Paz fight illustrates my point. Paz was a club fighter at 135 who was run out of the ring by a post prime Camacho and struggle with a club fighter/toughman fighter like Haugen. Paz had no business in that ring when Benn, Eubank, Liles, Collins...etc., were in the same division. I personally would take Hop, Floyd, and Pea's career over Roy's, but would take Roy's natural gifts over anyone else's!!!
Re: Roy Jones. Great read
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Roy was the best fighter most of us have ever seen and we are boxing nerds so that says it all.
Maybe I'm just jealous of his prime physique....
Re: Roy Jones. Great read
Every one speaks of talent and the shape a fighter appears to be in but Roy with talent aside went into the square against more than one opponent he could see them and we could not. As every general, in history knows except Napoleon and Hitler fighting a war on two fronts brings you much closer to defeat earlier than you think.
Re: Roy Jones. Great read
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Roy was the best fighter most of us have ever seen and we are boxing nerds so that says it all.
Maybe I'm just jealous of his prime physique....
Yes that was a body and looking at it now shows he has not aged well.
Re: Roy Jones. Great read
RJJ was a fighter who relied heavily on his athleticism. Once that faded, he didn't have the fundamentals to fall back on.
