Then we get the debate which is worse armed or induced with intent?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
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Then we get the debate which is worse armed or induced with intent?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I don't think you can split them
but does it even matter
both are endangering the life of the opponent more than that is natural
One carries a prison sentence the other does not yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
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Originally Posted by Master
Don't forget the devastating KTFO loss to Shane Mosley where, to add insult to injury, his cheating ways were discovered.... one of the highlights of my boxing watching career.
Just as Margarito will want to forget that so do I. It was shocking but that was not the real fighter but the one with a guilty conscious who knew he was going to be banned and ridiculed for the rest of his life.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Don't forget the devastating KTFO loss to Shane Mosley where, to add insult to injury, his cheating ways were discovered.... one of the highlights of my boxing watching career.
He should have gone to prison for getting caught.
A whole host of the worlds most famous trainers said you wouldn't necessarily be aware of how they prepare or wrap hands, they could all cheat if they wanted without the fighter knowing.
There's no evidence he ever fought a single fight with loaded gloves. Just saying....
If a boxer knew he would get banned/imprisoned they would soon make sure they knew if their gloves were loaded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
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Originally Posted by Fenster
I've heard this before and my first thought is either the trainers are protecting their fighters, or they consider the fighters to be oblivious to a moronic extreme. One of the more infamous cases of illegal gloves, Luis Resto, said he was aware of "Panama" Lewis' tampering with his gloves, not only on that fateful occasion, but a couple of other times before. It's hard for me to imagine a fighter is totally unconscious to what is going on with his hands in preparation for a fight. We'll never know for sure whether Margarito knew of the plaster-like stuff being put in his gloves... but taking everything into consideration I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he did.
I would have preferred Floyd to have fought him than Baldimor when they had the opportunity but recognise that Arum was the reason why it did not happen.
I think the main difference is that Evander was never charged or disciplined for steroid use. People speculate that Evander used steroids because of his build and the "Evan Field" entry at BALCO, but his steroid use is still only alleged. Margarito was caught with plaster of Paris in his gloves by Brother Naz. No disputing that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I wouldn't be surprised if Margarito knew either, however, unless the fans are handwrap experts, they actually have experience in wrapping and can prove/discredit what the worlds best trainers say, the views of people in the know need to be considered (especially from a neutral with an open-mind - me).
Therefore, not only is it impossible to prove Margarito ever cheated (without a confession) but it's also not gospel whether or not he was ever aware.
As was made abundantly clear in the "Tito loaded gloves" thread. An objection to the way his hands were wrapped - which were perfectly legal for just about everywhere apart from this particular commission - means he's a full blown loaded gloves cheater and his entire career is suspect. Laughable.
ok, its unfair to use Holyfield as an example, swap Mosleys name in thereQuote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodI think the main difference is that Evander was never charged or disciplined for steroid use. People speculate that Evander used steroids because of his build and the "Evan Field" entry at BALCO, but his steroid use is still only alleged. Margarito was caught with plaster of Paris in his gloves by Brother Naz. No disputing that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
We've got a bit sidetracked with the gloves issue here, methinks.
He turned pro at 15, as many impoverished Mexican greats do, and came up through the brutal brutal Mexican domestic lower weights.
A three time Welterweight 'world' champion, he was gigantic at the weight - but very physically strong. He had a solid, simple technique that allowed him to get over a customary slow start to bully and break down his opponents. He had an absolute cast iron chin, and often seemed to break his opponents hearts on route to brutalising them. He had a massive workrate once the first couple of rounds were over, I think he threw a record 1600 punches against Joshua Clottey over 12 rounds!
For a few years, he was undoubtedly the most avoided welterweight on the planet.
The gloves thing, and the fact that he looks like a movie stereotype cartel hitman resulted in him playing the 'baddie' for most of his fights, especially later on.
When he went up the weights later on, he couldn't carry his power up and he wasn't faster than th bigger guys. He was prone to getting outpointed and - even if you hate him - you have to admire his will and chin.
Holyfeild was never caught or held in court and found guilty of anything though or suspended of anything. I mean in his 26 year pro career he was never caught might as well list every boxer a cheater in the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
A prime Margo was a classic stalk, stun, and kill fighter. One he had his man hurt, he would close like a Tiger on a lamb.