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The Hawk never moved up in his prime and his division was pretty baron his best win is over a great fighter but he was way over his peak weight. I mean the golden era of boxing was happening above the guy and he is not going to move and try to get into the mix by fighting some contenders at 147 it always seemed weird to me. The man was tough but really wild and left open all the time Leonard wins pretty wide decision, Duran is closer call and I think Hearns puts him to sleep early.
Most "fans" who easily dismiss fighters from earlier eras can't even be bothered to watch their fights. They fawn over today's stars, and subscribe to the laughable, flimsy premise that they're somehow superior. Would Pryor have beaten the likes of Leonard, Duran, or Hearns? Probably not. But to automatically dismiss him because of his style is a bit ignorant. Pryor was a swarmer, but a swarmer with power. Many of those mentioned from today would've wilted under the never ending pressure. It's one thing to wade in there without the threat of knockout power... it's quite another to contend with bombs coming non-stop from every angle. Pryor had a decent chin, too. That must be considered. Arguello teed off and hit Pryor several times with shots that would've dropped most any other opponent. Pryor blinked, paused, and moved on. Yes, Arguello had gone up in weight, but he carried the power with him.
Julio Ceaser Chavez may have been able to outpoint Aaron Pryor.
I've made this point before, but think it is worth repeating here: some fighters have styles and physical gifts that "click" at a certain weight, and only that weight. Monzon and a Hagler are two great examples of this. It is difficult to pick against either in any mythical match up (p4p or otherwise), yet they remained at one weight throughout their careers. Pryor was like that at 140.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
There are many old timers who claim Leonard wanted nothing to do with Pryor and that Pryor had his way with Leonard during training/competing in the amateurs. This may or may not be true, but I'm not 100% sold that Pryor has no hope based off of one or two poor performances. Styles, lack of motivation...etc., can impact a fighter's performance, and Leonard had a couple of fights where he looked less than stellar as well (Howard Davis as an example).
Some fighters are swarmers who have a very unorthodox style and rhythm which throws off other fighters. Prime Johnny Tapia, Joe Calzaghe, and even Pac Man are examples. Joe was very similar in that he threw many punches and often seemed to be wide open due to having his hands down, but proved much harder to hit than what was anticipated. Pryor had a great chin also, and this only made him that much more brazen and difficult to beat.
Could Ray, Tommy...etc., beaten Pryor? Sure. Was he overhyped and not as great as people make him out to be? Not in my opinion. Aaron Pryor had the style, attitude, and physical gifts to beat anyone at his weight, and proved this by cleaning the weight class out. Every time you have that dominant a champ, you have people criticizing their level of competition (Hop, Joe Loius, Wlad, Kostya...etc.).
I'm not ready to write Pryor off as an early version of James Kirkland doing impressions of a crash test dummy but he threw caution to the wind constantly and that was his whole hope of getting his early push. He was buzzed and or dropped in major fights and granted he brushed it off mostly and got right back to trying to rip a guys head off. He freely gave up his head. It's not a case of 'what could he have been' like some others as he had early opportunities he turned down, had platforms off his biggest wins and instead balked at challengers and dropped his trinket. Arguello was coming up sure but in fairness Pryor wasn't exactly a big 140 but fighters weathering a storm and mobile fast timing punchers I think would have done very well putting him off pace and turning his forward sprint against him. I'd go so far to think a Chavez form Frankie Randall would have found too many open lanes right down the middle. Taylor would get sucked in and fight his fight maybe. Crawford..forget about it. Pryor v Cotto 140 would have been hellfire and brimstone.
I am not basing his chances to win off a few fights i just do not see how he is going to get away with his style with guys who are bigger and have power. Pryor was great 140 fighter but that division was kinda baron outside few fighters. All i am saying is with all the money there was to be made at 147 it still baffles me he did not move up and become a contender to fight Leonard, Duran, Benetiz or Hearns. Division up all the legends and money he could ask for think it would be worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodI've made this point before, but think it is worth repeating here: some fighters have styles and physical gifts that "click" at a certain weight, and only that weight. Monzon and a Hagler are two great examples of this. It is difficult to pick against either in any mythical match up (p4p or otherwise), yet they remained at one weight throughout their careers. Pryor was like that at 140.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
There are many old timers who claim Leonard wanted nothing to do with Pryor and that Pryor had his way with Leonard during training/competing in the amateurs. This may or may not be true, but I'm not 100% sold that Pryor has no hope based off of one or two poor performances. Styles, lack of motivation...etc., can impact a fighter's performance, and Leonard had a couple of fights where he looked less than stellar as well (Howard Davis as an example).
Some fighters are swarmers who have a very unorthodox style and rhythm which throws off other fighters. Prime Johnny Tapia, Joe Calzaghe, and even Pac Man are examples. Joe was very similar in that he threw many punches and often seemed to be wide open due to having his hands down, but proved much harder to hit than what was anticipated. Pryor had a great chin also, and this only made him that much more brazen and difficult to beat.
Could Ray, Tommy...etc., beaten Pryor? Sure. Was he overhyped and not as great as people make him out to be? Not in my opinion. Aaron Pryor had the style, attitude, and physical gifts to beat anyone at his weight, and proved this by cleaning the weight class out. Every time you have that dominant a champ, you have people criticizing their level of competition (Hop, Joe Loius, Wlad, Kostya...etc.).
I think Pryor being as open as he was would of cost him against Leonard or Hearns because at 147 if they had someone in trouble it was over. Not many people are going to take clean shots off Hearns at 147 even at higher weights it was bad idea. There are still match ups he could be in that would allow for his style to take it but against those guys i am pretty sure it would not work out. Leonard was a monster at 147 and besides his offence being amazing his defence was great to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
@TitoFan - this is your final warning. I have tired of politely asking you to stop misrepresenting my posts, telling blatant lies about me. You can follow me all over the forum throwing insults at me, call me a moron, an areshole, a cunt whatever. What you can't do is continually say I said things I didn't. Please consider this carefully. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Aaron Pryor was unstoppable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O39psaFgk_U
Well if Joe Cortez would just let Ricky fight on the inside.... I'm not saying Ricky would win but he definitely would have won!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster@TitoFan - this is your final warning. I have tired of politely asking you to stop misrepresenting my posts, telling blatant lies about me. You can follow me all over the forum throwing insults at me, call me a moron, an areshole, a cunt whatever. What you can't do is continually say I said things I didn't. Please consider this carefully. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
This is boxing forum. You have your opinions... I have mine. You've used harsher references to me in the past, and it's well known you don't take kindly to my presence here, nor my opinions. Ever since I made fun of your "Marquez ducked Naz" threads, you've had it in for me. You can threaten anyone you like, but you'd better have a firmer reason for it than you do with me.
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster@TitoFan - this is your final warning. I have tired of politely asking you to stop misrepresenting my posts, telling blatant lies about me. You can follow me all over the forum throwing insults at me, call me a moron, an areshole, a cunt whatever. What you can't do is continually say I said things I didn't. Please consider this carefully. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
This is boxing forum. You have your opinions... I have mine. You've used harsher references to me in the past, and it's well known you don't take kindly to my presence here, nor my opinions. Ever since I made fun of your "Marquez ducked Naz" threads, you've had it in for me. You can threaten anyone you like, but you'd better have a firmer reason for it than you do with me.
Thanks.
Just in case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster@TitoFan - this is your final warning. I have tired of politely asking you to stop misrepresenting my posts, telling blatant lies about me. You can follow me all over the forum throwing insults at me, call me a moron, an areshole, a cunt whatever. What you can't do is continually say I said things I didn't. Please consider this carefully. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
This is boxing forum. You have your opinions... I have mine. You've used harsher references to me in the past, and it's well known you don't take kindly to my presence here, nor my opinions. Ever since I made fun of your "Marquez ducked Naz" threads, you've had it in for me. You can threaten anyone you like, but you'd better have a firmer reason for it than you do with me.
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Oh hey... here's one of the things I said you said, that you really "didn't say".
Other than not using your exact words... is there something I misrepresented?
Thanks.
Fair enough, you've had a million chances, you clearly think you can take the absolute piss. How about this for "good" modding?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster@TitoFan - this is your final warning. I have tired of politely asking you to stop misrepresenting my posts, telling blatant lies about me. You can follow me all over the forum throwing insults at me, call me a moron, an areshole, a cunt whatever. What you can't do is continually say I said things I didn't. Please consider this carefully. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
This is boxing forum. You have your opinions... I have mine. You've used harsher references to me in the past, and it's well known you don't take kindly to my presence here, nor my opinions. Ever since I made fun of your "Marquez ducked Naz" threads, you've had it in for me. You can threaten anyone you like, but you'd better have a firmer reason for it than you do with me.
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Oh hey... here's one of the things I said you said, that you really "didn't say".
Other than not using your exact words... is there something I misrepresented?
Thanks.
Learn some humility, respect and manners.
I have some amateur footage of a 17 year old Tommy Hearns fighting Pryor , its a rock em sock em fight Pryor wins on points.
Fact is he never changed his brawling style , was always wide open to the straight right.