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Re: If Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, & Foreman are the Top 5 HW's in the 90's, who's
Tyson was pastbhis (short) prime and declining rapidly in the 1990's.
I was never really convinced with Moorer at the time. There was a lot of hype, but to me he was an awkward southpaw with decent, but not crushing, power. Not sure he had the same Fighters heart as some others.
Holmes is an all time great, but not in the 1990's. By then he was surviving on guile and chin.
Golota was good, but when things got tough he ALWAYS started looking for a way out. I don't think he would have won a tough 50/50 fight against any of the top guys that he couldn't bully.
Morrison was only a left hook and white skin. Not much else :cool:
Buster Douglas was superb ...... but only for one fight, and I don't think that's enough to get to be a decade long top 6 guy.
I would go with Donovan 'Razor' Ruddock.
He was big, didn't shirk his training, technically OK with a big punch. Strong guy up close, great chin and heart as he proved against Iron Mike twice.
I always thought he would come back strong after the second Tyson fight, and I even daw him taking over at the top of the division ..... but it never really happened.
He was a better fighter than many of the guys who held alphabet titles over the years, and IMO would have been competitive against quite a few of the World heavyweight champs in history.
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Re: If Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, & Foreman are the Top 5 HW's in the 90's, who's
That's a toughie but I come down to Moorer or Mercer, edge to Mercer as it all came down to he ran with better guys and all depends on which Ray you got on any given night. That was one if my 'dream' fights when it was so close to being made but Mercer dropped the trinket for what he thought would be a more lucrative easier mark in Holmes. Oops. Sounds strange maybe..but Fury v Wilder sort of reminds me of that fight. Save for Mercer being a superior boxer and more tested proven fighter in just 18,19 fights than Wilder was prior to Fury imo. In fairness though the closest he came to dropping Homles was when he staggered him all over the ring in the 1st. After that Holmes schooled him. On any given night a motivated Mercer could give any heavy complete hell and he took Lewis right to the brink and arguably could have taken that decision though I had Lewis nicking it. His war with a top form Cooper belongs in a time capsule and proved exactly how tough as nà ils he could be. Had it not been for 'whisper gate' and the resulting media court circus I'd say Mercer a no doubt #6. Moorer was sound and I think he gets a bad rap maybe due to that chin. He went to hell With Copper too before they started trying to muzzle his inner rage and give him a longer career. Used a great jab and his head to beat Holyfield but still think that screw ball 10 point must system did him a favor in 2nd when it could have been a draw. McCalls up there too and had it not been for his mental implosion he's a certain top 6 7 8.
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Re: If Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, & Foreman are the Top 5 HW's in the 90's, who's
And again....Larry Holmes beat Ray Mercer
Larry had an easier time with Ray than Lewis OR Holyfield
Let it sink in....just because Holmes' other opponents weren't the absolute greatest shouldn't keep him from getting a good helping of respect. He went the distance with Holyfield as well (more than Tyson can say), Holmes was 42, Evander was 29. He came close to beating a 29 year old Oliver McCall again went the distance with him (more than Lennox Lewis could say in his loss to the same man). He fought Brian Nielsen in Denmark where he was robbed.
I'd also say Buster Douglas (if we allow his fights from 88 & 89 to carry over, they changed the momentum of his career) he's up there with the HUGE win over Tyson.
Moorer had the win over Holyfield (MD) , the loss vs Foreman, loss to Holyfield (RTD), a MD over Vaughn Bean :-\ ....meh
Morrison had the loss vs Bentt, Lewis, and Mercer wins over Foreman, Ruddock, Williams.
Razor Ruddock great OPPONENT himself, but lost every fight vs a name guy: Lewis, Morrison, Tyson x2
Golota is similar always loses vs the named guys
Shout out to Alex Stewart who fought Tyson, Foreman, Holyfield x 2, and Moorer in the 90's
Jorge Luis Gonzales did well in the 90's
Everett 'Bigfoot' Martin fought damn near everyone there was to fight in the 90's: Bert Cooper in 88, Qawi & Foreman in 89, Gary Mason, Pierre Coetzer, & Francisco Damiani in 1990, Bonecrusher Smith, Michael Moorer, Riddick Bowe, Tim Witherspoon, Tony Tucker, Larry Holmes, Herbie Hide, Tony Tubbs (back to back to back, to back to back)....that's a Murderer's Row if ever I've seen one, not a bad boxer in the bunch....he beat Witherspoon! From October 1990 to February 1994 he fought 9 former world champions in a row! In his career he fought against 15 world champions. Mad respect for you wherever you are Bigfoot :bow:
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Re: If Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, & Foreman are the Top 5 HW's in the 90's, who's
I think Mercer beats Wilder.
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Re: If Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, & Foreman are the Top 5 HW's in the 90's, who's
Crazy thing about Bigfoot he turned pro at middleweight if I remember right. Also the first hvy to drop Moorer and gave Bowe and Foreman some pretty stressful moments. Holmes did well with very carefully selected no hopers at start of comeback but earned his shot at Holyfield, would have been Mercer but he thought all he needed to do is hit Holmes and he'd go. Holmes however saw that clinic Damiani was putting on Ray before a single uppercut nearly ripped Damianis nose off and left him leaking all over the canvas. Holmes did ok with Holyfield and wasn't adverse to using an elbow or three. Still though he didn't beat Mo Harris or Fergusson and was out on his feet vs the Boogeyman. Think Navarre had his shook too. Pure master class on that stuck to make it back in career as far as he did.
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Re: If Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, & Foreman are the Top 5 HW's in the 90's, who's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Crazy thing about Bigfoot he turned pro at middleweight if I remember right. Also the first hvy to drop Moorer and gave Bowe and Foreman some pretty stressful moments. Holmes did well with very carefully selected no hopers at start of comeback but earned his shot at Holyfield, would have been Mercer but he thought all he needed to do is hit Holmes and he'd go. Holmes however saw that clinic Damiani was putting on Ray before a single uppercut nearly ripped Damianis nose off and left him leaking all over the canvas. Holmes did ok with Holyfield and wasn't adverse to using an elbow or three. Still though he didn't beat Mo Harris or Fergusson and was out on his feet vs the Boogeyman. Think Navarre had his shook too. Pure master class on that stuck to make it back in career as far as he did.
Holmes over Mercer was a big upset in a decade of big upsets
Douglas over Tyson
McCall over Lewis
Foreman over Moorer
Mercer over Morrison
Moorer over Holyfield
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Re: If Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, & Foreman are the Top 5 HW's in the 90's, who's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Not sure i'd rate old Geroge no.5. The top four were standouts but the old boy lost to Morrison and got lucky against Shultz.
Morrison
McCall
Golota
Bruno
Tucker
Hide
Akinwande
to add to the others.
I knew it would not be anymore than 4 posts before someone pulls Morrison out of their asses. smh... Like Mercer had not raped him; and as if Moorer was a nobody?!
Morrison beat Foreman (the guy rated no.5 on the OP's list). He also knocked out Ruddock, who is another top guy from the 90s. And during the 90s he was one of the biggest stars in boxing.
And all I was doing was naming guys who hadn't been mentioned.
Now shake your head up and down.
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Re: If Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, & Foreman are the Top 5 HW's in the 90's, who's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
Nothing against Frank of course. I just find it funny how 'today's heavyweights are a joke.....couldn't live with the one's of the 90's' What they mean of course is they couldn't beat a prime Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield.
You hear it all the time, and it's nonsense.
And every old "expert" back in the 90s confidently predicted Lewis and Tyson and Holyfield would've never lived with past heavyweight greats. It's all rose tinted bollocks.
Not just would AJ/Fury/Wilder slot in amongst the wins and losses of ANY top heavyweight from the 90s you can also throw in the Povetkin's and Whyte's and Ortiz and Parker's.
These guys would have beat some and lost to others, it just depends on who matched up best stylistically.
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Re: If Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, & Foreman are the Top 5 HW's in the 90's, who's
I think Mercer could beat AJ if he fought him around the time he took on Lewis - under those conditions which were a fight in New York, small ring and the crowd all supporting him.
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Re: If Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, & Foreman are the Top 5 HW's in the 90's, who's
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
Nothing against Frank of course. I just find it funny how 'today's heavyweights are a joke.....couldn't live with the one's of the 90's' What they mean of course is they couldn't beat a prime Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield.
You hear it all the time, and it's nonsense.
And every old "expert" back in the 90s confidently predicted Lewis and Tyson and Holyfield would've never lived with past heavyweight greats. It's all rose tinted bollocks.
Not just would AJ/Fury/Wilder slot in amongst the wins and losses of ANY top heavyweight from the 90s you can also throw in the Povetkin's and Whyte's and Ortiz and Parker's.
These guys would have beat some and lost to others, it just depends on who matched up best stylistically.
I agree, styles make fights....Lennox Lewis, known to start slow or be poorly motivated in certain fights (cough, cough BRUNO) put him in with a free swinging Deontay Wilder and hell who knows. Wilder has seemed to be able to connect and follow up vs damned near everyone...HOWEVER what about Wilder vs Chris Byrd? Swing and a miss, swing and a miss, swing and a miss a much smaller target than Tyson Fury it would be tough. Mike Tyson would eat Deontay Wilder alive, I think Tyson Fury would have been very difficult for Mike Tyson to beat just given the size and style of the guy. Evander Holyfield IMO is other than Joe Louis the most difficult matchup for ANY heavyweight of ANY era....I think Holyfield vs Ali Prime vs Prime would have ended with 1 fighter dying just due to their styles being absolutely awful for each other.
You're absolutely right though, it's a case by case basis. Styles make fights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think Mercer could beat AJ if he fought him around the time he took on Lewis - under those conditions which were a fight in New York, small ring and the crowd all supporting him.
Oh absolutely, Ray Mercer on his night was tough for anyone. He gave Lewis and Holyfield hell....too bad he struggled with Hepatitis B. Ray was supposed to fight Bruno (what a brawl that would have been!) at one point in time.
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Re: If Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, & Foreman are the Top 5 HW's in the 90's, who's
If you factor in the decade as a whole, then Ike Ibeabuchi is certainly the most dangerous HW outside of those top 5 guys, but he was late 90s, whereas those top 5 guys were, Lewis excepted were largely done by the late 90s.
Only Lewis maintained prime form into the late 90s & into the next decade.
