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Tyson V Bruno 2 - Bruno virtually wet himself on the way to the ring & he just did not want to be there.
Holyfield V Tyson 2 - Tyson is a student of the game & no-one knows other fighters better than him & he knew deep down that he could not beat Holyfield, hence what transpired subsequently.
Mayweather v Marquez was pretty absurd. As was Canelo v Khan, we all knew 'what' we just didn't know the 'when'. I remember Camacho, RIP, trying to yuk it up before he got in with Chavez but quickly found the left hook to the body of Chavez becoming a permanent part of his anatomy. Camacho always had tons of charisma and he took a pounding that night. Chavez right up there with guys like Tyson early on in terms of sheer intimidation and having this cold quite malice about him. Big round of applause for the head games that backfired, Haye v Wlad. Silly dude even made t shirts ;D.
Camacho took a beating from Oscar, so fighters that are past their prime is another category.
Tyson v Lewis was inevitable.
Khan v Alvarez and Crawford
Larry Holmes vs Muhammad Ali
Ali’s medical pre-Holmes fight reported:
- A small hole/perforation in the brain
- Issues completing hand-to-nose test
- Tingling in his hands
- Slurred speech, memory issues
He was licensed & fought
Source: The Life and Crimes of Don King: The Shame of Boxing in America
I think everyone involved in that fight actually "lost"... including Holmes. He couldn't turn down the money and decided to beat up on an old man.
I recently saw the 2009 documentary "Facing Ali", and there are some sad video clips of this fight, as well as his needless two fights against Leon Spinks BEFORE fighting Holmes.
I am glad Ali avenged his loss against Leon Spinks.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Worse than that -- why oh why the absolute F&^% did Ali then wait ANOTHER YEAR and then decide to do The Drama in The Bahamas? I recently watched that painful fight to watch, and holy hell did Berbick put a beating on Ali's head & body in that fight. It is horrific to watch and Berbick unlike Holmes did not pull any punches, he let him have it almost as if to say 'hey old man, f&^% you I dont care who you are/used to be, I'm gonna smash you". It is sickening but it is part of the sport and nobody forced Muhammad to do such a thing. YOU WOULD REALLY THINK WOULD YOU NOT that after getting thrashed by Larry Holmes that he would NEVER get in the ring again. Why did he fight Trevor??????
Ali just could not say no. Just shows you how durable Ali was that a young hungry contender could not stop him.
In retrospect, WHEN should have Ali retired?
IMO, and with the benefit of hindsight... it should've been after Shavers.
Ali had fought "The Thrilla in Manila" two years prior to Shavers. Then he fought Ken Norton a THIRD time. Then came the murderous puncher Ernie Shavers.
Ali should've retired right then and there. WTF did he need to fight Spinks for?? Spinks was a relative nobody. Ali at even 80% of his peak self would've wiped the floor with Spinks. But he lost. Then he avenged the loss.
Then the spent shell of Ali fought Holmes in 1980, and Trevor Berbick in 1981. Stupid fights... both of them.
Holmes was a greedy bastard who was paid blood money to beat the crap out of an already sick old man.
Berbick added insult to injury.
Shame on both of these dudes! As well as the organizations that allowed the fights.
I find his best years to be from 1964 to 1967. Amazing how well he fought on March 8, 1971. He was IMO already just 85% of the boxer who fought Liston 6-7 years earlier. Understandably.
So I feel after ANOTHER loss (Norton 1), it is beyond amazing he whipped Foreman THREE AND A HALF YEARS after the first Frazier fight. I can then see him avenging Frazier and Norton but that should have been it. So I'd say he shoulda hung the gloves up after beating Norton and Joe in the rematches. No rubber matches, tho we'd've then missed The Thrilla.
The Foreman fight would have been a crowning moment to go out on
At the very least The Thriller in Manila. Neither boxer should have fought again after that fight
1. Head Games: Some of my favorite examples of this are Liston vs Patterson (Floyd had a disguise in his bag to wear while leaving the building after the fight), Foreman vs everyone pre-Ali, Tyson vs Spinks, Riddick Bowe vs Larry Donald, and Steve Collins vs Chris Eubank (Eubank was rattled by Collins’ claim of hypnosis use).
2. Weight Games: Andre Ward vs Chad Dawson, Oscar vs Arturo Gatti, Gatti vs Joey Gamache, G-Man vs middleweights, and Ray Leonard vs Donny Lalond (won belts in two weights for one fight).
3. Judges Games: I feel like every boxing “cash cow” gets favor from judges so Canelo, Oscar, Ray Leonard, JCC…etc, all have some questionable wins. The interesting exception to me is Manny- he actually had some blatant robberies vs Tim Bradley and Jeff Horn while he was a cash cow.
4. Rules Games: Adding to the Hagler v Leonard regrets- DEFINITELY a mistake to allow Ray to get the bigger ring. Taking a different spin- prime BHOP was the master at using the rules to his advantage by fouling while the ref was out of position. I loved his tactic of using his left hand to position his opponents body between himself and the ref and then hitting low before maneuvering the opponent out of the way so the ref could clearly see the retaliatory low blow from the opponent.
I think with Hagler v Leonard, Ray wanted 12 rounds not 15.
Ray conceded everything else including ring size just so he could have 12 rounds. It worked in his favour as the last 3 rounds probably would have been decisive for Hagler to win.
Hagler fighting orthodox for the first few rounds did not work either. He knew Ray had been practicing for a southpaw all year round.