Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
SRR is the most overrated guy when compared to nowaday boxers I've ever seen. For his time he was the best ever in comparison, but in no way, shape, or form can he compete with somebody so much faster, and technically more skilled than him. Let's face it technique is way better today than it was back in the day. The more any sport or anything is done improvements are found, and people utilize those improvements, and there have been way too many improvements since when Robinson fought to nowadays for him to ever beat PBF unless they fought at 154 and up. Ray Robinson is such a slow puncher he would be countered all day. People say they had such a good work rate back in the day, but they didn't really its just peoples memories make the past look generally better than it was. Whether it is family memories or fighters unless a traumatic event happens people will always see things better than they really were... like SRR.
Actually I must disagree with you there. Back in Sugar Ray Robinson's day, I believe it was much tougher on the fighters since they fought so often and had more rivals to go after that improve their skills. As far as technique being so much more improved today? Give me a break. Most fighters are head hunters and wouldn't have a clue where the solar plexis is. The fighters in Ray's day knew to kill the body before killing the head. As far as being a slow puncher, how can you say that about SRR? Going by badly fading films that seem a step behind in the timing department, when old timers write how fast he was I take their reports as accurate. As far as PBF goes, Pernell Whitaker at his best beats PBF any day (that's my opinion).
Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
If you think Ray Robinson was overrated.
Look at the span of time between his first and second fight with Lamotta and how many fights he fought. Now compare that shedule to nowadays and how tough that competition was, then you'll see how NOT overrated he was.
Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
SRR is the most overrated guy when compared to nowaday boxers I've ever seen. For his time he was the best ever in comparison, but in no way, shape, or form can he compete with somebody so much faster, and technically more skilled than him. Let's face it technique is way better today than it was back in the day. The more any sport or anything is done improvements are found, and people utilize those improvements, and there have been way too many improvements since when Robinson fought to nowadays for him to ever beat PBF unless they fought at 154 and up. Ray Robinson is such a slow puncher he would be countered all day. People say they had such a good work rate back in the day, but they didn't really its just peoples memories make the past look generally better than it was. Whether it is family memories or fighters unless a traumatic event happens people will always see things better than they really were... like SRR.
undefeated as an amateur 85-0 with 69 knockouts including 40 in the first round, never been knocked out in 200 fights. went from welterweight to challenge light heavyweight was winning on scorecards before collapsing from heat exhaustion, had to fight guyz bigger than him to make fights less one-sided. had power and speed, could knock a guy out while going backwards. beat the people who beat him even when he was past his prime. Ali said that although he considers himself as the greatest heavyweight, ray robinson is the greatest fighter that ever lived.
Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
also I believe the guyz back then were tougher, they fought more often and stoppages didn't come very early, you literally had to knock a guy out.
Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
SRR is the most overrated guy when compared to nowaday boxers I've ever seen. For his time he was the best ever in comparison, but in no way, shape, or form can he compete with somebody so much faster, and technically more skilled than him. Let's face it technique is way better today than it was back in the day. The more any sport or anything is done improvements are found, and people utilize those improvements, and there have been way too many improvements since when Robinson fought to nowadays for him to ever beat PBF unless they fought at 154 and up. Ray Robinson is such a slow puncher he would be countered all day. People say they had such a good work rate back in the day, but they didn't really its just peoples memories make the past look generally better than it was. Whether it is family memories or fighters unless a traumatic event happens people will always see things better than they really were... like SRR.
Actually I must disagree with you there. Back in Sugar Ray Robinson's day, I believe it was much tougher on the fighters since they fought so often and had more rivals to go after that improve their skills. As far as technique being so much more improved today? Give me a break. Most fighters are head hunters and wouldn't have a clue where the solar plexis is. The fighters in Ray's day knew to kill the body before killing the head. As far as being a slow puncher, how can you say that about SRR? Going by badly fading films that seem a step behind in the timing department, when old timers write how fast he was I take their reports as accurate. As far as PBF goes, Pernell Whitaker at his best beats PBF any day (that's my opinion).
Most of the guys back then didn't keep their hands up, and thats why SRR was able to throw combinations on them. I can say SRR had slow hands compare to fast guys nowadays because he did... Watch his fights he has slow ass hands compared to the best now. Also who was his rival that was actually good back then? Lamotta? A no skilled bullrusher who made SRR fight for his life in the ring when they fought. I agree fighting back then was harder because they took more shots, and fought more often. Those old films make guys look faster because they had less frames, and that makes things seem faster than slower hence why the refs and such look like their moving around so fast.
Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
Quote:
Originally Posted by chamiley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
SRR is the most overrated guy when compared to nowaday boxers I've ever seen. For his time he was the best ever in comparison, but in no way, shape, or form can he compete with somebody so much faster, and technically more skilled than him. Let's face it technique is way better today than it was back in the day. The more any sport or anything is done improvements are found, and people utilize those improvements, and there have been way too many improvements since when Robinson fought to nowadays for him to ever beat PBF unless they fought at 154 and up. Ray Robinson is such a slow puncher he would be countered all day. People say they had such a good work rate back in the day, but they didn't really its just peoples memories make the past look generally better than it was. Whether it is family memories or fighters unless a traumatic event happens people will always see things better than they really were... like SRR.
undefeated as an amateur 85-0 with 69 knockouts including 40 in the first round, never been knocked out in 200 fights. went from welterweight to challenge light heavyweight was winning on scorecards before collapsing from heat exhaustion, had to fight guyz bigger than him to make fights less one-sided. had power and speed, could knock a guy out while going backwards. beat the people who beat him even when he was past his prime. Ali said that although he considers himself as the greatest heavyweight, ray robinson is the greatest fighter that ever lived.
Ray Robinson for his time was the greatest fighter that ever lived in contrast to other time periods NO QUESTION, but to say he beats the faster, stronger, smarter fighters of today is not logical. Its like saying Jim Brown would do well in the NFL right now even though back in his day he was fast, big, and strong. He wouldn't, he would suck nowadays. People fight less today so their bodies maintain their strength longer, they eat better, they punch with better technique, and they have better defense than back in the day.
Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by chamiley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
SRR is the most overrated guy when compared to nowaday boxers I've ever seen. For his time he was the best ever in comparison, but in no way, shape, or form can he compete with somebody so much faster, and technically more skilled than him. Let's face it technique is way better today than it was back in the day. The more any sport or anything is done improvements are found, and people utilize those improvements, and there have been way too many improvements since when Robinson fought to nowadays for him to ever beat PBF unless they fought at 154 and up. Ray Robinson is such a slow puncher he would be countered all day. People say they had such a good work rate back in the day, but they didn't really its just peoples memories make the past look generally better than it was. Whether it is family memories or fighters unless a traumatic event happens people will always see things better than they really were... like SRR.
undefeated as an amateur 85-0 with 69 knockouts including 40 in the first round, never been knocked out in 200 fights. went from welterweight to challenge light heavyweight was winning on scorecards before collapsing from heat exhaustion, had to fight guyz bigger than him to make fights less one-sided. had power and speed, could knock a guy out while going backwards. beat the people who beat him even when he was past his prime. Ali said that although he considers himself as the greatest heavyweight, ray robinson is the greatest fighter that ever lived.
Ray Robinson for his time was the greatest fighter that ever lived in contrast to other time periods NO QUESTION, but to say he beats the faster, stronger, smarter fighters of today is not logical. Its like saying Jim Brown would do well in the NFL right now even though back in his day he was fast, big, and strong. He wouldn't, he would suck nowadays. People fight less today so their bodies maintain their strength longer, they eat better, they punch with better technique, and they have better defense than back in the day.
well if robinson were to have been brought up with the new nutritional diets and new training methods of today which today's fighters follow well with that he would have definetly blown today's fighters out of the water.
Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
Quote:
Originally Posted by chamiley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
SRR is the most overrated guy when compared to nowaday boxers I've ever seen. For his time he was the best ever in comparison, but in no way, shape, or form can he compete with somebody so much faster, and technically more skilled than him. Let's face it technique is way better today than it was back in the day. The more any sport or anything is done improvements are found, and people utilize those improvements, and there have been way too many improvements since when Robinson fought to nowadays for him to ever beat PBF unless they fought at 154 and up. Ray Robinson is such a slow puncher he would be countered all day. People say they had such a good work rate back in the day, but they didn't really its just peoples memories make the past look generally better than it was. Whether it is family memories or fighters unless a traumatic event happens people will always see things better than they really were... like SRR.
undefeated as an amateur 85-0 with 69 knockouts including 40 in the first round, never been knocked out in 200 fights. went from welterweight to challenge light heavyweight was winning on scorecards before collapsing from heat exhaustion, had to fight guyz bigger than him to make fights less one-sided. had power and speed, could knock a guy out while going backwards. beat the people who beat him even when he was past his prime. Ali said that although he considers himself as the greatest heavyweight, ray robinson is the greatest fighter that ever lived.
CC,SRR was amazing and hit the nail on the head when someone said that if he trained with the standards,techniques and methods of tosay's fightrs,he would dominate now too and remember factors back then like 15 rounds and I'm sure there was no standing 8 count? La Motta would destroy most fighters to day too except the slick boxers,he was an animal!!
Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
Quote:
Originally Posted by chamiley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by chamiley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
SRR is the most overrated guy when compared to nowaday boxers I've ever seen. For his time he was the best ever in comparison, but in no way, shape, or form can he compete with somebody so much faster, and technically more skilled than him. Let's face it technique is way better today than it was back in the day. The more any sport or anything is done improvements are found, and people utilize those improvements, and there have been way too many improvements since when Robinson fought to nowadays for him to ever beat PBF unless they fought at 154 and up. Ray Robinson is such a slow puncher he would be countered all day. People say they had such a good work rate back in the day, but they didn't really its just peoples memories make the past look generally better than it was. Whether it is family memories or fighters unless a traumatic event happens people will always see things better than they really were... like SRR.
undefeated as an amateur 85-0 with 69 knockouts including 40 in the first round, never been knocked out in 200 fights. went from welterweight to challenge light heavyweight was winning on scorecards before collapsing from heat exhaustion, had to fight guyz bigger than him to make fights less one-sided. had power and speed, could knock a guy out while going backwards. beat the people who beat him even when he was past his prime. Ali said that although he considers himself as the greatest heavyweight, ray robinson is the greatest fighter that ever lived.
Ray Robinson for his time was the greatest fighter that ever lived in contrast to other time periods NO QUESTION, but to say he beats the faster, stronger, smarter fighters of today is not logical. Its like saying Jim Brown would do well in the NFL right now even though back in his day he was fast, big, and strong. He wouldn't, he would suck nowadays. People fight less today so their bodies maintain their strength longer, they eat better, they punch with better technique, and they have better defense than back in the day.
well if robinson were to have been brought up with the new nutritional diets and new training methods of today which today's fighters follow well with that he would have definetly blown today's fighters out of the water.
How can you possibly know that? I don't think he would have been as good of an athlete as RJJ or Floyd Mayweather Jr. who came from a family of boxers, and had fathers who went far in boxing themselves. I am pretty sure Shane Mosley's father was a good boxer. These guys are bred from parents who were good boxers athletically, and that gift is handed down to them from generations in Mayweather's case, and from what I read of the Robinson book he went pro at 15, and couldn't possibly have had 85 amateur fights.
Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
SRR had a comibination of power and speed, Floyd was faster but SRR imo punched alot harder...
That left hook he hit fulmer with was insane
Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by chamiley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by chamiley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
SRR is the most overrated guy when compared to nowaday boxers I've ever seen. For his time he was the best ever in comparison, but in no way, shape, or form can he compete with somebody so much faster, and technically more skilled than him. Let's face it technique is way better today than it was back in the day. The more any sport or anything is done improvements are found, and people utilize those improvements, and there have been way too many improvements since when Robinson fought to nowadays for him to ever beat PBF unless they fought at 154 and up. Ray Robinson is such a slow puncher he would be countered all day. People say they had such a good work rate back in the day, but they didn't really its just peoples memories make the past look generally better than it was. Whether it is family memories or fighters unless a traumatic event happens people will always see things better than they really were... like SRR.
undefeated as an amateur 85-0 with 69 knockouts including 40 in the first round, never been knocked out in 200 fights. went from welterweight to challenge light heavyweight was winning on scorecards before collapsing from heat exhaustion, had to fight guyz bigger than him to make fights less one-sided. had power and speed, could knock a guy out while going backwards. beat the people who beat him even when he was past his prime. Ali said that although he considers himself as the greatest heavyweight, ray robinson is the greatest fighter that ever lived.
Ray Robinson for his time was the greatest fighter that ever lived in contrast to other time periods NO QUESTION, but to say he beats the faster, stronger, smarter fighters of today is not logical. Its like saying Jim Brown would do well in the NFL right now even though back in his day he was fast, big, and strong. He wouldn't, he would suck nowadays. People fight less today so their bodies maintain their strength longer, they eat better, they punch with better technique, and they have better defense than back in the day.
well if robinson were to have been brought up with the new nutritional diets and new training methods of today which today's fighters follow well with that he would have definetly blown today's fighters out of the water.
How can you possibly know that? I don't think he would have been as good of an athlete as RJJ or Floyd Mayweather Jr. who came from a family of boxers, and had fathers who went far in boxing themselves. I am pretty sure Shane Mosley's father was a good boxer. These guys are bred from parents who were good boxers athletically, and that gift is handed down to them from generations in Mayweather's case, and from what I read of the Robinson book he went pro at 15, and couldn't possibly have had 85 amateur fights.
uhh shane's father only fought in the amatuers never proffesional you should dig up ur facts b4 u comment on something
Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
Robinson was Greatest of all time, and when rating the Welterweights, he walks the all time list, and Lil Floyd is not even top 10.
But if you built a time machine, and brought prime SRR back to this era, he would do well to last the distance with Floyd Jr.... Darwin has shown this ;)
Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britkid
Robinson was Greatest of all time, and when rating the Welterweights, he walks the all time list, and Lil Floyd is not even top 10.
But if you built a time machine, and brought prime SRR back to this era, he would do well to last the distance with Floyd Jr.... Darwin has shown this ;)
Come on, Britkid, you are nomally quite knowledgeable and reasonable. You know very well that evolution takes many many generations before any differences are noticeable. SRR was genetically exactly the same as PBF.
Yes, nutrition is better, training is more advanced (arguably), but if SRR was here now he would have those advantages as well.
Asking the question the other way round is also interesting - how would PBF fare fighting SRR in the 1950's. I think he would struggle with the 15 round distance, he would find the gloves heavy and tiring, Robinson would rough him up much more than fighters do nowadays. SRR by KO if they fought in the 50's.
Re: floyd mayweather vs sugar ray robinson
Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Yes, nutrition is better, training is more advanced (arguably), but if SRR was here now he would have those advantages as well.
But that is my point, SRR is not here to take advantage of these things, Mayweather is maybe only 1 or 2% more developed than SRR, but at that level, 1 or 2% is a huge difference...
But like I said, SRR was the Greatest ever Welterweight and Greatest ever fighter, and I doubt Lil Floyd will take either title away from him. ;)
