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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
My Top Ten since 1945
Why since 1945? Because I actually witnessed each listed boxer fight at one time or another (EXCEPT mONZONE), and I don't mean by video. Of course, I carefully analyzed their records, ko percentages, skill-sets, the era in which they fought, entire body of work, quality of opposition and other important criteria as well.
1) Sugar Ray Robinson. 175 - 19 - 6- 2 with 109 ko's. In a career that spanned three decades, Sugar Ray embodied the essence of the sweet science. He was a world welterweight champion and held the middleweight title five times. Incredibly, he was so great for so long that he won his first Fighter of the Year award in 1942 and his second award in 1951. The fact I don't have to say much says it all.
2) Joe "The Brown Bomber" Louis, 69 - 3 with 55 ko's. Joe successfully defended his title an astounding 25 times.One punch KO power, very economical and never wasted a punch. He fought such great as Charles, Walcott, Schmeling, Max Baer, Buddy Baer, Billy Conn and many other tough customers. In 1950 he returned to the ring, but after a series of wins, was knocked out in 1951 by contender Rocky Marciano, after which he permanently retired. When I was a kid, Joe Louis was everyone's hero. And even as a young, albeit observant, child, I was amazed at how much power he could generate with such a short punch and just how fast he threw that punch. Heck, he "invented" the one-two.
3) Guglielmo Papaleo aka Willie Pep, W 230 - 11 - 1 with 65 ko's. Nicknamed "WILL O the Wisp" for his elusiveness, Pep is considered one of boxing's all-time great artists. Legend has it that he once won a round without throwing a punch. He held the featherweight title for six years and outboxed all comers. He is best remembered for his physical and dirty four-fight series against fellow Hall-of-Famer Sandy Saddler. He turned pro in 1940 and won his first 63 fights. In 1952, he won the featherweight title by decisioning Chalky Wright. His first loss came the following year when he dropped a non-title fight to former lightweight champion Sammy Angott.
4) Carlos "Escopeta" Monzone. 87 - 3 - 9 with 59 ko's. He captured the World Middleweight Boxing Championship in a shocking upset over the highly favored Nino Benvenuti. Overnight, he became the toast of the boxing world. Handsome and macho, he became a superstar and a favorite of the jet set. He also became only the second man to stop former three-time world champion Emile Griffith in 14 rounds He was unbeaten over the last 81 bouts of his career, a span of 13 years! Sadly, Monzon, like Sanchez, died in an car accident in 1995.
5) Muhammad Ali. 56-5 with 37 Ko's. He was the dominant fighter of the 1960s and 1970s. A fighter of exceptional speed and flair, he won the world heavyweight title on three separate occasions over a period of 15 years, but his trilogy with Kenny Norton, two mediocre fights against Leon Spinks and controversial wins against Henry Cooper and Jimmy Young tarnished, at least to some degree, his nickname. On the other hand, his two hard fought wins against Joe Frazier, his wins over Sonny Liston, and his upset of George Foreman truly enhanced his reputation. His wins against Shavers, Lyle, Williams and Quarry were memorable as well. His fight against an old Zora Folley at Madison Square Garden in 1967 perhaps showcased him at his brilliant best.
6) Larry "The Easton Assassin" Holmes. 69 - 6 with 44 Ko's. Holmes, an "old school" type, was always ready and eager to enter the ring, sometimes fighting nine times in one year. Arguably, his was the best jab in modern boxing history. The "Assassin" never backed down from any contender throughout his career. His second loss to Michael Spinks is considered among the worse decisions in boxing history. The quality of his opposition was arguably greater than that of any other fighter with the possible exception of Evander Holyfield. It included guys like Mike Weaver, Oliver McCall. Michael Spinks, Jerry Cooney, Mike Tyson, Ray Mercer, Carl Williams, James 'Bonecrusher' Smith, Tim Witherspoon, Renaldo Snipes, Trevor Berbick, Muhammad Ali, Ernie Shavers, Ken Norton, Roy "Tiger" Williams, Brian Nielsen, and Evander Holyfield.
7) Marvelous Marvin Hagler. 62 - 3 - 2 with 52 ko's. The quintessential "blue collar" fighter, the rugged Hagler was known for his great work ethic and fierce looks. He often traveled to other fighters' hometowns for fights and some of his most memorable pre-title competition came in boxing-crazy Philadelphia. Hagler made 12 successful title defenses. Among his victims were Vito Antuofermo,Tony Sibson, Fulgencio Obelmejias, Mustafa Hamsho, Wilford Scypion, Roberto Duran, Juan Roldan, and John Mugabi. His thrilling three-round unmitigated shootout with Thomas Hearns is regarded as one of the best fights of all-time. He did one thing very well and that was to win.
8) Sugar Ray Leonard. 35 - 3-1 with 25 ko's. Like Ali, he was equipped with speed, ability and charisma, Sugar Ray Leonard filled the boxing void left when Muhammad Ali retired in 1981. With the American public in search of a new boxing superstar, Leonard came along at just the right moment. An Olympic Gold Medal winner, he was named Fighter of the Decade for the 1980s. He won an unprecedented five world titles in five weight classes and competed in some of the era's most memorable bouts. He beat Hearns, Hagler, Duran and Benitez, Kalule and that alone is a platform for entry into the Hall of Fame. There were few better and more ruthless closers in boxing history.
9) Roberto "Manos de Piedra" Duran 103 -16 with 70 ko's. Regarded by many as the greatest lightweight of all-time and one of the top 5 best pound for pound fighters ever. He held world titles at four different weights: lightweight (1972-79), welterweight (1980), junior middleweight (1983-84) and middleweight (1989). He was also the only boxer to have fought in five different decades. After he mounted a comeback, he beat hall of Famer Pepino Cuevas by knock-out. Against WBA Junior middleweight champion Davey Moore in June 1983, he showed his savage side by trying to deliberately hurt him as much as possible. Finally, the fight was stopped in the eighth round as Moore was taking a horrific bloody beating. Duran had won his third world title and the crowd was up and roaring, "Dooooooran, Dooooooran...." He later beat Iran "The Blade" Barkley to cop his final championship.
10) Bernard "The Executioner" Hopkins. 47- 4-1-1 with 32 ko's. Through the late 90's and early 2000's, contender after top contender fell at his hands. After losing two controversial decisions to Jermain Taylor, he came back in June 2006 to brutalize Antonio Tarver over 12 rounds and win the IBO Light Heavyweight Title and end his great career with another demonstration of ring artistry. Excellent skills, movement and punching power, versatility (he could fight aggressively or counterpunch), deceptive hand speed, accurate combinations, old school toughness and durable, physically strong and always in top shape, great defensive skills and successful at the highest levels of competition. What more is there to say?The difference between Hopkins and other above is hair thin. If he decides to fight on and beat a Calzaghe or a reputable heavyweight as he sometimes hints at, he will move up on this list.
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Crazy to see some people list Duran so high, #15, #16.
IMO hes top 5.
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Re: Who's Number 1? Best Boxers
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by beds
cc.
i will be honest and admit i cant do a list of 20 as my knowledge of older boxers isnt that of most on here so i wont even try but i think maybe RJJ and Hopkins could squeeze in.
Jones I disagree on, but Hopkins could very well slide into 20-15, I would have him at about 21 ;)
wat makes hopkins more credible then jones?
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Although I respect everyone's opinions here,there is absolutely no fooking way Oscar De La Hoya is in the greatest 20 fighters that have ever lived,absolutely NO WAY! Just no! I'm sorry but I don't see it.and as great as B Hop is,I would not have him in front of Monzon,or JCC and definitely in the top 20 for me. Great record but all these other guys from history have a much much better record.I'll put mine up later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
I may sound stupid asking this but it's how I'll learn,what is the difference between greatest and best??Best as in your personal best and greatest as greatest for achievements/all time? CC's for the lists,I have not seen enough old fights to make 1 yet,but I know all the fighters you guys names so my knowlege is getting better!
Actually it is a good question....I always consider the best a temporary thing,,,,one guy can be the best today EG Floyd Mayweather still undefeated...but a fight later a different guy could be because he one upped him...EG Pacquio beats Morales twice but all time greatest is a bit more thought into....I go by achievements over their whole career...do the top moments outweigh the bad...How have their accomplishmets as a whole add up not just a single part of their careers....EG Ali loses to Berbick...in a current situation that would drop him down in the P4P ranks because he lost to a low quality fighter but over his career...he beat guys like Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Folley, Patterson....
Hope that helps a little
El Gamo...there's never a stupid question when you learn an answer.
Good assestment Daxx my man...but you made one fatal error & I
highlighted it for you.
You must keep up with the Saddo tradition. You have to post it like this : Hope this helps.
It conveys the sarcasm of the veteran posters of yesteryear & also conveys a little bit of compasion by saying that you sincerly hope you helped...actually...it's more about the sarcasm. ;D
So...I hope that helped. Heh heh heh. ;)
LMAO,thanks guys and yeah,Wacko's right,Daxx you CANNOT say hope that helps a little?!!
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Although I respect everyone's opinions here,there is absolutely no fooking way Oscar De La Hoya is in the greatest 20 fighters that have ever lived,absolutely NO WAY! Just no! I'm sorry but I don't see it.and as great as B Hop is,I would not have him in front of Monzon,or JCC and definitely in the top 20 for me. Great record but all these other guys from history have a much much better record.I'll put mine up later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
I may sound stupid asking this but it's how I'll learn,what is the difference between greatest and best??Best as in your personal best and greatest as greatest for achievements/all time? CC's for the lists,I have not seen enough old fights to make 1 yet,but I know all the fighters you guys names so my knowlege is getting better!
Actually it is a good question....I always consider the best a temporary thing,,,,one guy can be the best today EG Floyd Mayweather still undefeated...but a fight later a different guy could be because he one upped him...EG Pacquio beats Morales twice but all time greatest is a bit more thought into....I go by achievements over their whole career...do the top moments outweigh the bad...How have their accomplishmets as a whole add up not just a single part of their careers....EG Ali loses to Berbick...in a current situation that would drop him down in the P4P ranks because he lost to a low quality fighter but over his career...he beat guys like Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Folley, Patterson....
Hope that helps a little
El Gamo...there's never a stupid question when you learn an answer.
Good assestment Daxx my man...but you made one fatal error & I
highlighted it for you.
You must keep up with the Saddo tradition. You have to post it like this : Hope this helps.
It conveys the sarcasm of the veteran posters of yesteryear & also conveys a little bit of compasion by saying that you sincerly hope you helped...actually...it's more about the sarcasm. ;D
So...I hope that helped. Heh heh heh. ;)
LMAO,thanks guys and yeah,Wacko's right,Daxx you CANNOT say hope that helps a little?!!
i only put oscar in to fill list bro because i run out of fighters couldnt think of no more lol
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Never miss a chance for a list ;D
1 Sugar Ray Robinson
2 Henry Armstrong
3 Willie Pepp
4 Muhammad Ali
5 Roberto Duran
6 Julio Cesar Chavez
7 Benny Leonard
8 Jimmy Wilde
9 Billy Conn
10 Harry Greb
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
I never got to see a lot of the old fighters, so I won't even attempt to make a full list.
I think the clear top 2 should be Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali. After the top 2, you can make a ton of arguments for who should be 3-20.
I think the two guys from recent decades who should be locks for the top 20 are Whitaker and Jones. After that, the other great boxers from this era could be argued both ways. Whitaker and Jones are the two sure things.
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
1. Muhammed Ali
2. Cassius Clay
3. "The Greatest"
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
For me # 1-pound-for-pund": Ray Robinson, followed by Ali. I just can not think about Jones as # 1 as I read in some posts with all the other names such as Henry Armstrong, Louis, Willie Pep, Sadler, Leonard, Whitaker, (not necessarily in that order) just to mention a few. Jones has great skills, but there are many others.
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
My list
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Joe Louis
3. Sugar Ray Leonard
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Muhammed Ali
6. Floyd Maywether Jr.
7. Archie Moore
8. Willie Pep
9. Julio Ceasar Chavez
10. Rocky Marciano
11. George Foreman
12. Oscar De Lahoya
13. Marvin Hagler
14. Jack Dempsey
15. Roberto Duran
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mike Tyson
18. Larry Holmes
19. Thomas Hearns
20. Evander Holyfield
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
This list above was compiled by Bryan Berg
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biceberg
My list
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Joe Louis
3. Sugar Ray Leonard
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Muhammed Ali
6. Floyd Maywether Jr.
7. Archie Moore
8. Willie Pep
9. Julio Ceasar Chavez
10. Rocky Marciano
11. George Foreman
12. Oscar De Lahoya
13. Marvin Hagler
14. Jack Dempsey
15. Roberto Duran
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mike Tyson
18. Larry Holmes
19. Thomas Hearns
20. Evander Holyfield
Welcome to Saddos, where your opinion is sure to be crushed by some drunk. (WackOf3205 or SalTheButcher)
Heres Cool Click #1 for you...
Nice list, though I think PBF is too high.
Roberto Duran is too low.
ODLH is waaay to high as HUGE of a fan that I'am hes not better then Hearns or Duran all time I think hes closer to 20 - 25 rather then 15-20....
But overall nice list and hope you enjoy! your saty here.....
Who are your favorite fighters?
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Re: Who's Number 1? Best Boxers
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
This is mine....
1. Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Willie Pep
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Benny Leonard
6. Gene Tunney
7. Joe Louis
8. Stanley Ketchel
9. Lou Ambers
10. Archie Moore
11. Pernell Whitaker
12. Carlos Monzon
13. Alexis Arguello
14. Emile Griffith
15. Kid Chocolate
16. Ray Leonard
17. Roberto Duran
18. Jack Dempsey
19. Oscar De La Hoya
20. Julio Cesar Chavez
Not the best list and I'm sure it could use some fine tuning, bit of era-clumping in there but I like it. And as always, I will gladly defend each fighter's spot on the list.
CC for your list. I really like it. The only bad things are having ODLH ahead of JCC is insane. JCC DOMINATED during his prime, he was freaking unbeatable, ODLH didn't dominate in his prime, he was simply really competitive. SRL really shouldn't be that low and Benny Leonard IMO shouldn't be on the list. Also, there is no Hagler and Arguello should be lower because he was outclassed twice by Pryor when Arguello was still a "young" fighter.
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Mine is off the top of my head
Roy Jones Jr
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Pernell Whitaker
Muhammad Ali
Willie Pep
Ray Robinson
Mike Tyson
Ray Leonard
Roberto Duran
Gene Tunney
Archie Moore
James Toney
Marvin Hagler
Winky Wright
Bernard Hopkins
Joe Louis
Lennox Lewis
Other guys are Hearns, JCC, Aaron Pryor, Arguello, Larry Holmes, Frazier, Holyfield, Ezzard Charles
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by body head banger
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by beds
cc.
i will be honest and admit i cant do a list of 20 as my knowledge of older boxers isnt that of most on here so i wont even try but i think maybe RJJ and Hopkins could squeeze in.
Jones I disagree on, but Hopkins could very well slide into 20-15, I would have him at about 21 ;)
:o Dear me amat? Is you crazy?? i mean alot of people are not fans of roy but he does slip easily into the top ten i mean, four weight division champion, and middle to heavy is a huge stretch over a career, he had skills and characteristics that had been unseen and thats what is all about baby he did it his own way. gotta disagree brother.
IMO, from the years 96 to 06, his career only had a couple high spots with a bunch of fights that should have been used to just keep busy instead of being main eventers. I mean, as spectacular as the guy was, he just didn't fight strong enough competition to be considered the greatest fighter of all time. It's a shame, but Roy never had that one career defining fight that set him head and shoulders above the other greats of his era, much less all time.
Why punish a fighter by history if they did the best they could against "their era" Roy ruled "an era" it wasn't the BEST Era but it was "An era" And he shouldn't be punished for not being 20 in the 70's should he?
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by body head banger
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by beds
cc.
i will be honest and admit i cant do a list of 20 as my knowledge of older boxers isnt that of most on here so i wont even try but i think maybe RJJ and Hopkins could squeeze in.
Jones I disagree on, but Hopkins could very well slide into 20-15, I would have him at about 21 ;)
:o Dear me amat? Is you crazy?? i mean alot of people are not fans of roy but he does slip easily into the top ten i mean, four weight division champion, and middle to heavy is a huge stretch over a career, he had skills and characteristics that had been unseen and thats what is all about baby he did it his own way. gotta disagree brother.
IMO, from the years 96 to 06, his career only had a couple high spots with a bunch of fights that should have been used to just keep busy instead of being main eventers. I mean, as spectacular as the guy was, he just didn't fight strong enough competition to be considered the greatest fighter of all time. It's a shame, but Roy never had that one career defining fight that set him head and shoulders above the other greats of his era, much less all time.
Why punish a fighter by history if they did the best they could against "their era" Roy ruled "an era" it wasn't the BEST Era but it was "An era" And he shouldn't be punished for not being 20 in the 70's should he?
He shouldn't neccesarily be punished but you can't deny, he does not have one major victory past Hopkins and Toney. I guess the Ruiz fight too. That's 3 good wins. Just good because he never beat a great fighter in the prime or at least near it. Still, RJJ is one of the few fighters who cracks the top 25 just by being really really good. When you talk about the all time greats, very few make it because of their skills even without a heap of great victories. Pernell is another one. He didn't exactly have bigger wins then ODLH or SLR but he is still ranked with them.
But I still think Pernell did have better wins then RJJ. He's top 25 of all time. When people look back on that era I think they will remember the great fights of other fighters in his era like DLH, Lewis, Trinidad and others. Mybe I was off in saying he wouldn't be remembered as a great. That's just not true but I don't think he'll be remembered as a top 10 ATG like a lot on this board seem to think he will be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by albsur2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
This is mine....
1. Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Willie Pep
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Benny Leonard
6. Gene Tunney
7. Joe Louis
8. Stanley Ketchel
9. Lou Ambers
10. Archie Moore
11. Pernell Whitaker
12. Carlos Monzon
13. Alexis Arguello
14. Emile Griffith
15. Kid Chocolate
16. Ray Leonard
17. Roberto Duran
18. Jack Dempsey
19. Oscar De La Hoya
20. Julio Cesar Chavez
Not the best list and I'm sure it could use some fine tuning, bit of era-clumping in there but I like it. And as always, I will gladly defend each fighter's spot on the list.
CC for your list. I really like it. The only bad things are having ODLH ahead of JCC is insane. JCC DOMINATED during his prime, he was freaking unbeatable, ODLH didn't dominate in his prime, he was simply really competitive. SRL really shouldn't be that low and Benny Leonard IMO shouldn't be on the list. Also, there is no Hagler and Arguello should be lower because he was outclassed twice by Pryor when Arguello was still a "young" fighter.
BIG fights from DLH. Honestly, love him or hate him he has had more mega fights then any non heavyweight in a long time. Carr, Quartey, Trinidad, Whitaker, Chavez, Vargas ect
No Hagler? Well I just disagree entirely. Not beat in 11 years and some huge victories. I couldn't possibly stomach leaving Hagler out of the top 20. In hindsight I would probably move Arguello and Griffith outside of the top 20 now that I know a lot more about boxing's history and great fighters. But Arguello was a great fighter, I've never seen a sharper punch.
And yeah I would probably move Leonard up the list considerably aswell. CC 168, liked the input.
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by body head banger
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by beds
cc.
i will be honest and admit i cant do a list of 20 as my knowledge of older boxers isnt that of most on here so i wont even try but i think maybe RJJ and Hopkins could squeeze in.
Jones I disagree on, but Hopkins could very well slide into 20-15, I would have him at about 21 ;)
:o Dear me amat? Is you crazy?? i mean alot of people are not fans of roy but he does slip easily into the top ten i mean, four weight division champion, and middle to heavy is a huge stretch over a career, he had skills and characteristics that had been unseen and thats what is all about baby he did it his own way. gotta disagree brother.
IMO, from the years 96 to 06, his career only had a couple high spots with a bunch of fights that should have been used to just keep busy instead of being main eventers. I mean, as spectacular as the guy was, he just didn't fight strong enough competition to be considered the greatest fighter of all time. It's a shame, but Roy never had that one career defining fight that set him head and shoulders above the other greats of his era, much less all time.
Why punish a fighter by history if they did the best they could against "their era" Roy ruled "an era" it wasn't the BEST Era but it was "An era" And he shouldn't be punished for not being 20 in the 70's should he?
He shouldn't neccesarily be punished but you can't deny, he does not have one major victory past Hopkins and Toney. I guess the Ruiz fight too. That's 3 good wins. Just good because he never beat a great fighter in the prime or at least near it. Still, RJJ is one of the few fighters who cracks the top 25 just by being really really good. When you talk about the all time greats, very few make it because of their skills even without a heap of great victories. Pernell is another one. He didn't exactly have bigger wins then ODLH or SLR but he is still ranked with them.
But I still think Pernell did have better wins then RJJ. He's top 25 of all time. When people look back on that era I think they will remember the great fights of other fighters in his era like DLH, Lewis, Trinidad and others. Mybe I was off in saying he wouldn't be remembered as a great. That's just not true but I don't think he'll be remembered as a top 10 ATG like a lot on this board seem to think he will be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by albsur2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
This is mine....
1. Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Willie Pep
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Benny Leonard
6. Gene Tunney
7. Joe Louis
8. Stanley Ketchel
9. Lou Ambers
10. Archie Moore
11. Pernell Whitaker
12. Carlos Monzon
13. Alexis Arguello
14. Emile Griffith
15. Kid Chocolate
16. Ray Leonard
17. Roberto Duran
18. Jack Dempsey
19. Oscar De La Hoya
20. Julio Cesar Chavez
Not the best list and I'm sure it could use some fine tuning, bit of era-clumping in there but I like it. And as always, I will gladly defend each fighter's spot on the list.
CC for your list. I really like it. The only bad things are having ODLH ahead of JCC is insane. JCC DOMINATED during his prime, he was freaking unbeatable, ODLH didn't dominate in his prime, he was simply really competitive. SRL really shouldn't be that low and Benny Leonard IMO shouldn't be on the list. Also, there is no Hagler and Arguello should be lower because he was outclassed twice by Pryor when Arguello was still a "young" fighter.
BIG fights from DLH. Honestly, love him or hate him he has had more mega fights then any non heavyweight in a long time. Carr, Quartey, Trinidad, Whitaker, Chavez, Vargas ect
No Hagler? Well I just disagree entirely. Not beat in 11 years and some huge victories.
I couldn't possibly stomach leaving Hagler out of the top 20. In hindsight I would probably move Arguello and Griffith outside of the top 20 now that I know a lot more about boxing's history and great fighters. But Arguello was a great fighter, I've never seen a sharper punch.
And yeah I would probably move Leonard up the list considerably aswell. CC 168, liked the input.
Yea I like your list too Amat, but uhh, you did leave Hagler out of the top 20 unless I can't read.. He isn't on your list :P
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Re: Who's Number 1? Best Boxers
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
This is mine....
1. Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Willie Pep
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Benny Leonard
6. Gene Tunney
7. Joe Louis
8. Stanley Ketchel
9. Lou Ambers
10. Archie Moore
11. Pernell Whitaker
12. Carlos Monzon
13. Alexis Arguello
14. Emile Griffith
15. Kid Chocolate
16. Ray Leonard
17. Roberto Duran
18. Jack Dempsey
19. Oscar De La Hoya
20. Julio Cesar Chavez
Not the best list and I'm sure it could use some fine tuning, bit of era-clumping in there but I like it. And as always, I will gladly defend each fighter's spot on the list.
Good list with the exception of Duran being a little low and Whitaker being a little high
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
:banghead:
Well...I'm sure there has been some sort of mistake...I mean surely... :-[
Maybe I should have looked over the list before posting? CC 347 for that....I made that in August. But leaving Hagler out is inexcusable, kind of surprising since I went over that list thousands of times until I liked it. Now I see a lot of things I don't like about it. I put Ketchel in there despite not knowing nearly enough about him. I have Kid Chocolate on there a little high I think. I was really high on him about the time I made the list. Like I said I would raise Leonard probably to 11. I'm going to have to make another one of these one days...
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by body head banger
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by beds
cc.
i will be honest and admit i cant do a list of 20 as my knowledge of older boxers isnt that of most on here so i wont even try but i think maybe RJJ and Hopkins could squeeze in.
Jones I disagree on, but Hopkins could very well slide into 20-15, I would have him at about 21 ;)
:o Dear me amat? Is you crazy?? i mean alot of people are not fans of roy but he does slip easily into the top ten i mean, four weight division champion, and middle to heavy is a huge stretch over a career, he had skills and characteristics that had been unseen and thats what is all about baby he did it his own way. gotta disagree brother.
IMO, from the years 96 to 06, his career only had a couple high spots with a bunch of fights that should have been used to just keep busy instead of being main eventers. I mean, as spectacular as the guy was, he just didn't fight strong enough competition to be considered the greatest fighter of all time. It's a shame, but Roy never had that one career defining fight that set him head and shoulders above the other greats of his era, much less all time.
Why punish a fighter by history if they did the best they could against "their era" Roy ruled "an era" it wasn't the BEST Era but it was "An era" And he shouldn't be punished for not being 20 in the 70's should he?
He shouldn't neccesarily be punished but you can't deny, he does not have one major victory past Hopkins and Toney. I guess the Ruiz fight too. That's 3 good wins. Just good because he never beat a great fighter in the prime or at least near it. Still, RJJ is one of the few fighters who cracks the top 25 just by being really really good. When you talk about the all time greats, very few make it because of their skills even without a heap of great victories. Pernell is another one. He didn't exactly have bigger wins then ODLH or SLR but he is still ranked with them.
But I still think Pernell did have better wins then RJJ. He's top 25 of all time. When people look back on that era I think they will remember the great fights of other fighters in his era like DLH, Lewis, Trinidad and others. Mybe I was off in saying he wouldn't be remembered as a great. That's just not true but I don't think he'll be remembered as a top 10 ATG like a lot on this board seem to think he will be.
You could make a case and say that Oscar only beat one fighter in their prime(Quartey and thats questionable)
But you have Oscar on that list.
And it would be punishing a fighter, when you consider on his era that Eric Lucas, Clinton Woods, Virgil Hill, John Ruiz, James Toney and bernard hopkins went on to become champions after Roy beat them. James Toney and Hopkins hall of fame ones, Virgil Hill too will be HoF in my opinion.
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
I saw someones list on here and Shane Mosley was on it but not Thomas Hearns. Shows me someone who has to be about 22 years old. It was on the page one
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
these lists are too subjective by who is rating them. Someone who puts Tito Trinidad in the top 20 has to not know about the 80s even. Tito was good but who did he beat to warrant top 20? Maurice Blocker and Fernando Vargas? And Delahoya is good but he lost to alot of the top guys. If you put Oscar in there, you have to put Thomas Hearns in there since Tommy beat better guys than Oscar ever did and at the weight and prime of his opponent.
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
I do not know whose list this is, but I like it the most. Seems most logical. I would rate Pernell and Chavez in there, but I would put Pernell about 10 and Hopkins about 17 and Chavez about 15... But this is a really good list whoever made it. Here is someone who is not just rating high his generation, he/she knows boxing.
1.Ray Robinson
2.Muhammed Ali
3.Ray Leonard
4.RJJ
5.Pernell Whitaker
6.Roberto Duran
7.Marvin Hagler
8.Julio Cesar Chavez
9.Joe Louis
10.Bernard Hopkins
11.Archie Moore
12.Alexis Arguello
13.Ezzard Charles
14.Benny Leonard
15.Carlos Monzon
16.Gene Tunney
17.Evander Holyfield
18.Tommy Hearns
19.Ricardo Lopez
20.Oscar Delahoya
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
another good one is this one by Biceberg. Good list.. I gave you a cool click whatever that will help you, great job.
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Joe Louis
3. Sugar Ray Leonard
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Muhammed Ali
6. Floyd Maywether Jr.
7. Archie Moore
8. Willie Pep
9. Julio Ceasar Chavez
10. Rocky Marciano
11. George Foreman
12. Oscar De Lahoya
13. Marvin Hagler
14. Jack Dempsey
15. Roberto Duran
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mike Tyson
18. Larry Holmes
19. Thomas Hearns
20. Evander Holyfield
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
never mind was going say wheres henry armstrong and willie pep but you done 2 lsits
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
ok im shite at making list but ill try do one in order and i havent seen alot of fighters because was too young but here i go ill have a shot
1 srr
2 henry armstrong
3 muhammad ali
4 willie pep
5 joe louis
6 archie moore
7 jimmy wilde
8 roberto duran
9 julio cesar chavez
10 rocky marciano
11 carlos monzon
12 pernell whitaker
13 marvin hagler
14 george foreman
15 benny leonard
16 larry holmes
17 salvador sanchez sorry had to have him in
18 ricardo lopez
19 thomas hearns
20 roy jones
with mike tyson just missing list
i know this list prolly sucks but i tried folks ;)
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
can anyone tell me if my list is any good it prolly sucks just want some of you knowledgeable posters to tell me whats wrong with my list and what needs changing cheers
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
can anyone tell me if my list is any good it prolly sucks just want some of you knowledgeable posters to tell me whats wrong with my list and what needs changing cheers
All list are subjective but that's a fine list. Good call on Jimmy Wilde. If I would change anything...well there are a lot of heavyweights in there and while that in itself isn't a bad thing, Holmes, Foreman and Marciano seem a little out of place.
I'll hold off on Holmes because I haven't seen enough of him.
But Foreman might be up there had he beaten Ali but he didn't and not only did he lose, he retired. Wins over Frazier, Young, Lyle and Cooney are great but I wouldn't put him in the top 20. He just didn't do enough then when he came back, well he performed valiantly against Holyfield and of course he KO'd Moorer but I don't think he did enough to be ranked that high. Maybe if he had continued on after Ali but the fact that he didn't hurts him when putting him up there imo. Especially against some of the more accomplished guys at the lower weights.
Recently I have come around big time on Marciano. Great fighter. Unspeakable toughness but again in terms of accomplishments he's lacking a bit. He went 49-0 but it's interesting when you look at the record.
To get to 49-0, he fought 41 nontitle bouts. In those 41 title bouts, he spent 36 without breaking out of Rhode Island. The only fight he had of any real merit was a controversial split decision against Roland LaStarza. In his 36th bout, he fought a guy who was something like 10-15. And if you look, most of his first 40 wins are against guys with just atrocious records. And most are in Rhode Island.
He beat a very good Harry Matthews to get a shot at the title then beat Walcott in a thriller. He rematched Walcott and blew him out. Walcott was old and completely wrecked after the first fight. He rightfully rematched LaStarza and won. It was a nice victory. Actually a very good fight, unfortunately it's an extremely rare fight. He then fought Charles and won pretty comfortably but rematched him even though he really didn't have to and the two had a great fight. Then he fought somebody (don't know who and boxrec isn't loading for me) at Kezar stadium (grandpa attended that fight). Then he fought Moore who was making the leap for the first time to HW.
Good resume. But still, only 7 title defenses and really only a handful of solid wins. Don't think he's quite that high.
CC in 24 though. Good list and I found a lot less problem in yours then I did mine. Bold putting Henry Armstrong ahead of Ali but I guess it's impossible to dominate boxing more then Armstrong did so I couldn't possibly get on you for that even if I disagree.
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
can anyone tell me if my list is any good it prolly sucks just want some of you knowledgeable posters to tell me whats wrong with my list and what needs changing cheers
All list are subjective but that's a fine list. Good call on Jimmy Wilde. If I would change anything...well there are a lot of heavyweights in there and while that in itself isn't a bad thing, Holmes, Foreman and Marciano seem a little out of place.
I'll hold off on Holmes because I haven't seen enough of him.
But Foreman might be up there had he beaten Ali but he didn't and not only did he lose, he retired. Wins over Frazier, Young, Lyle and Cooney are great but I wouldn't put him in the top 20. He just didn't do enough then when he came back, well he performed valiantly against Holyfield and of course he KO'd Moorer but I don't think he did enough to be ranked that high. Maybe if he had continued on after Ali but the fact that he didn't hurts him when putting him up there imo. Especially against some of the more accomplished guys at the lower weights.
Recently I have come around big time on Marciano. Great fighter. Unspeakable toughness but again in terms of accomplishments he's lacking a bit. He went 49-0 but it's interesting when you look at the record.
To get to 49-0, he fought 41 nontitle bouts. In those 41 title bouts, he spent 36 without breaking out of Rhode Island. The only fight he had of any real merit was a controversial split decision against Roland LaStarza. In his 36th bout, he fought a guy who was something like 10-15. And if you look, most of his first 40 wins are against guys with just atrocious records. And most are in Rhode Island.
He beat a very good Harry Matthews to get a shot at the title then beat Walcott in a thriller. He rematched Walcott and blew him out. Walcott was old and completely wrecked after the first fight. He rightfully rematched LaStarza and won. It was a nice victory. Actually a very good fight, unfortunately it's an extremely rare fight. He then fought Charles and won pretty comfortably but rematched him even though he really didn't have to and the two had a great fight. Then he fought somebody (don't know who and boxrec isn't loading for me) at Kezar stadium (grandpa attended that fight). Then he fought Moore who was making the leap for the first time to HW.
Good resume. But still, only 7 title defenses and really only a handful of solid wins. Don't think he's quite that high.
CC in 24 though. Good list and I found a lot less problem in yours then I did mine. Bold putting Henry Armstrong ahead of Ali but I guess it's impossible to dominate boxing more then Armstrong did so I couldn't possibly get on you for that even if I disagree.
good statement i dunno i always liked foreman always rated him maybe he is a tad high but beating fraizer twice like he did was damn impressive but your prolly right he is too high holmes is one of my favourite fighters if he would of beat spinks like i think he derserved to i would of put him higher than marciano its shame he didnt and he is one of most underrated champions i think marciano what can i say i love the guy he reminds me of rocky balboa his underfeated record is appealing but looking back it wasnt strongest era but that wasnt his fault he didnt duck anybody which i admired but like i said thanks for your reply good statement and cc back in 24
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Yeah I have really come around on Marciano. I never saw the clamor about him until I watched the second Charles fight and the first Walcott fight. He is like Rocky, he'll take 5 punches just to give 1 back. And in the second Charles fight, even with the poor quality film, his nose was moving everytime he breathed and he still won the fight. Unbelievable heart and thoroughly discusting.
Once I get faster internet I'm downloading a bunch of Holmes. I feel I know my heavyweight history fairly good but that post Ali - Pre Tyson era, I'm really lacking. And that's because I haven't seen enough of Larry Holmes.
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Yeah I have really come around on Marciano. I never saw the clamor about him until I watched the second Charles fight and the first Walcott fight. He is like Rocky, he'll take 5 punches just to give 1 back. And in the second Charles fight, even with the poor quality film, his nose was moving everytime he breathed and he still won the fight. Unbelievable heart and thoroughly discusting.
Once I get faster internet I'm downloading a bunch of Holmes. I feel I know my heavyweight history fairly good but that post Ali - Pre Tyson era, I'm really lacking. And that's because I haven't seen enough of Larry Holmes.
i have larry holmes whole career set like 30+ of his fights if you want any fights or ect let me know
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Ice Cold. I like your list. I am not good at lists but yours looks good to me. I think you can pretty much rate the decades and then add them into a full list, but to compare Chavez to Louis is always hard
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65
Ice Cold. I like your list. I am not good at lists but yours looks good to me. I think you can pretty much rate the decades and then add them into a full list, but to compare Chavez to Louis is always hard
thanks mate glad you liked it i tried my best mate thats all i can say i thought no one would like it so thats bonus i struggled with last few like who should be 20 b hop or jones i chose jones because he was multi weight champion but i tell you last few were extremely hard 8)
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65
Ice Cold. I like your list. I am not good at lists but yours looks good to me. I think you can pretty much rate the decades and then add them into a full list, but to compare Chavez to Louis is always hard
thanks mate glad you liked it i tried my best mate thats all i can say i thought no one would like it so thats bonus i struggled with last few like who should be 20 b hop or jones i chose jones because he was multi weight champion but i tell you last few were extremely hard 8)
I agree. I like my top 10 pretty much the way it is but past that there is a multitude of problems. CC.
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65
Ice Cold. I like your list. I am not good at lists but yours looks good to me. I think you can pretty much rate the decades and then add them into a full list, but to compare Chavez to Louis is always hard
thanks mate glad you liked it i tried my best mate thats all i can say i thought no one would like it so thats bonus i struggled with last few like who should be 20 b hop or jones i chose jones because he was multi weight champion but i tell you last few were extremely hard 8)
I agree. I like my top 10 pretty much the way it is but past that there is a multitude of problems. CC.
:coolclick:
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
here is my list of the top twenty...and why.
20. Marvelous Marvin Hagler...one of the greatest middleweights ever, probably should have gotten the win against the legendary Sugar Ray Leonard in their "SuperFight" of the '80s.
19. Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor...one of the most dominating junior welters of all time, rumor has it, Ray Leonard ran to welter to avoid a clash with this man who destroyed Alexis Arguello not once but twice. Only suffered one defeat, towards the end of his career.
18. Rocky Marciano...only fighter ever to retire undefeated heavyweight champion of the world. wins over Archie Moore, Joe Walcott and (an aging) Joe Louis. He accomplished all of this all while weighing in at a less-than-heavyweight 188-195 lbs.
17. Joe Louis...held the world heavyweight championship for a record 11 years. Broke down racial barriers in his career with his charisma and polite mannerisms, not to mention his annihilation of Max Schmeling as Hitler and the world watched to see if the Fuhrer's claim that no black man could beat an arian was true. It took less than 124 seconds for Joe to prove it a farce.
16. Floyd Mayweather Junior...may go up in the list as he moves on and fights more great opponents. right now his resume wasnt quite good enough to break my top 15 but it goes without saying he deserves a place on it somewhere...champion of four weight divisions, undefeated, taught to box before he could walk. May go on to be a top five of all time fighter...time will tell.
15. Harry Greb...fought a recorded 299 times; a natural welterweight who won the world middleweight championship as well as the north american light heavyweight championship in the 1920's. Rumored to have been ducked after embarrassing Jack Dempsey in sparring sessions (remember in Harry, we are talking about a welterweight-and-possibly-blown-up-middleweight size fighter), Harry Greb holds wins over fighters such as Jimmy Walker and Gene Tunney; the same man who beat Dempsey for his belt in their famous "long count" fight years later. Greb supposedly not only was a phenomenal fighter, but a disabled one, fighting nearly the entire second half of his 13 year career with one eye after being blinded by a punch that shredded a retina.
14. Willie Pep...one of the top 3 greatest defensive fighters of all time and one of the fastest if not THE fastest. Pep had a record of 230-11 and was a two time featherweight champion of the world. Never even was exposed as being human until after his near fatal plane crash which was supposed to kill him did he begin to suffer losses on his record such as in his memorable four fight saga with Sandy Sadler.
13. Bob Fitzsimmons...one of boxing's first triple crown champions. Won the middleweight championship (and is considered the hardest middleweight puncher of all time), then went up to heavyweight to KO then-champion Jim Corbett. Lost to Jim Jeffries and moved to light heavyweight to win the title, then back up to fight a tough match against the legendary Jack Johnson, which he lost. Considered by Ring Magazine to be "the 8th hardest puncher of all time".
12. "Hammerin' Hank" Armstrong...won world titles at featherweight, lightweight and welterweight all while maintaining the featherweight limit so he could defend them simultaneously. This record will never be broken. Armstrong had 150 victories with over 100 knockouts.
11. Roberto Duran...five world titles in four different weight classes; the only fighter to fight through five decades of boxing; had nearly 120 fights in his lengthy career and won 103 of them. Quite possibly THE best lightweight of all time.
10. Pernell Whitaker...Olympic golden boy. First unified lightweight champion since Duran. Also won the welterweight, junior welterweight and junior middleweight world championships making him a champion in four different weight divisions (which is quite remarkable being as he is about 5'6). Fought legends such as Julio Cesar Chavez and Oscar Delahoya, and in my opinion, won both despite questionable decisions by the judges. One of my favorite fighters ever, this guy was the Willie Pep of his time.
9. Tommy "The Hitman" Hearns...A 5-division world champ, Hearns would have been the fighter of his era without question had it not been for losses to Ray Leonard and Hearns. Really, he was robbed against Sugar Ray the second time around. This guy doesnt always get the credit he deserves. Maybe the most devastating puncher the welterweight division has ever seen (just ask Duran, who he KOed in two rounds). Won world titles as a welterweight, junior middleweight, middleweight, supermiddleweight and light heavyweight.
8. James "Lights Out" Toney...Say what you want about James Toney. His record speaks for itself. A nine time world champion in three weight divisions, including the heavyweight division in a bout where he clearly outboxed and outpunched a plodding and bewildered John Ruiz to a clear cut decision win. Unfortunately for James, he was stripped of the title after testing positive for steroids which he claimed a doctor had given him to heal a torn bicep from a previous heavyweight match up against, I believe, Rydell Booker. A great finisher and one of the three men ever to move up from middleweight (in the 1990's) to win a heavyweight title, James Toney is still competing at the top level with today's heavyweight contenders.
7. Roy Jones, Jr...5 time world champion in four weight divisions; middleweight, supermiddleweight, light heavyweight and heavyweight (he beat John Ruiz's ass worse than Toney did, btw). Should have won Olympic gold too, but was robbed. Pretty much ruled, without question, his division since the early nineties; only until recent losses against Tarver and Johnson has he faded away and now may finally retire. Holds wins over Virgil Hill, Bernard Hopkins, James Toney, Vinny Pazienza and Michael "Second to" Nunn, to name a few.
6. Oscar Delahoya...a lotta G.B. haters will chew this one up I'm sure, but I look at it like this...on paper; He was the only medal winner from the American Boxing Team, winning, of course, his famous gold medal in Barcelona. Delahoya is the first boxer ever to hold world titles in 6 divisions, breaking records held by Sugar Ray Leonard and Thomas Hearns. This can totally be argued as to whether he deserved to; he in my opinion fought a very lackluster fight which it didnt look to me like he won against a no name fighter named Felix Sturm from Germany. I believe it was also for a no-name belt that was invented so that Oscar could break the record and build more hype leading into his then-upcoming megafight with Hopkins that he would go on to lose. The fact still remains that Oscar is a 10 time world champion in six different weight classes. Off paper, the guy has fought some good opposition; he's gone up against Hopkins, Trinidad, Ike Quartey, Fernando Vargas, Oba Carr, Julio Cesar Chavez, Rafael Ruelas, Pernell Whitaker, Hector Camacho, Jorge Paez, Jesse James Leigha (in his prime), and sluggers like Gatti and Mayorga. He has beaten most of them to the ground. Another reason he gets such high status on this list is the fact that Delahoya is one of those figures that can transcend the sport; he is great for boxing because he opens vessels to entirely new audiences of people and has started a promotional company which I believe will help "clean up" and regulate boxing the way it has so badly needed.
5. Bernard "The Executioner" Hopkins...One of the most dominant middleweight champions ever. He was even middleweight champion in prison (3 times). After doing time for "strong-armed robbery" which meant he beat the shit out of you and took your chain, Hopkins went on to break Sugar Ray Robinson's record of defenses for the middleweight crown. At 41, the guy beat Antonio Tarver for the light heavyweight title and now looks for a fight against one of the most dangerous opponents out there; Winky Wright.
4. TIE---Sam Langford...throughout his 25+ year career, he was denied a title shot because of his color (even by Jack Johnson, who most said, like Dempsey, was afraid to fight Langford), Langford was an anomaly. Ranging from 139 to 204 lbs, he fought from jr welter to heavyweight against a wealth of opponents, including a prime pre-title Jack Johnson in what was said to be an extremely close match in which Johnson took a narrow decision from Langford, who had given up nearly 40 pounds to the future champ. Like Greb, he went blind halfway through his career yet still won the Mexican heavyweight championship, at about 39 and 95% blind. Sam Langford faced fighters like Sam McVey, Tiger Flowers, Joe Gans, Stanley Ketchel and Jack Johnson. The few that did beat him never did it convincingly. Sam Langford is the greatest fighter ever to never receive a shot at a world Boxing historian Burt Sugar ranks Langford 16th in his book, The 100 Greatest Fighters of All Time. Nat Fleischer, editor in chief of Ring Magazine ranks him as the #7 heavyweight of all time, and Herb Goldman; founder of the International Boxing Research Association ranks him as the #2 light heavyweight of all time. Sam Langford is a member of both the Ring Boxing Hall of Fame and the International Boxing Hall of Fame. He fought at least 293 times with at least 167 wins (at least 117 KOs), 38 losses and a combined 85 draws and no-contests.
4. TIE---Evander Holyfield. The only four time heavyweight champion of all time (on paper; the fourth title to break Ali's record was "given" to Evander when a new belt was created for his first fight with John Ruiz), Holyfield has shown impressive heart and firepower in his career against fighters like George Foreman, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes,Riddick Bowe, James Toney and James "Buster" Douglas. A natural cruiserweight, Holyfield was questioned initially by the experts as to whether he could hang with the big boys at heavyweight. He proved them wrong when he became the undisputed world champion, and now seeks to prove more people wrong as he heads on a final run to do it again.
3. Sugar Ray Leonard...overnight gold medal sensation who transcended the sport like fighters before him such as Ali and fighters after him such as Oscar Delahoya. World champion in five different weight classes and one of the more graceful and beautiful fighters to watch in motion. Ray Leonard beat world class legendary fighters like Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran, Marvin Hagler, Wilfredo Benitez while electrifying audiences with his hand speed and boxing skill. Leonard will always be remembered not only for his legendary speed and grace (which allowed him to “steal” rounds in the final seconds), but also for his tireless dedication to charity and promotion of the sport we all love.
2. Muhammad Ali...what sucks is we will never know how great he really would have been as his best years were taken from him during his incarceration. Probably the most charismatic and colorful fighter of all time. Invented what it was to transcend the genre and break the mold; Ali was much more than a fighter, though as a fighter he was a fantastic specimen. A great speaker and politician, he was also one of the fastest and most scientific heavyweight champions that ever lived. He was the first three time heavyweight champion and a true sports icon. Ali fought wars in the ring against ridiculously qualified opposition; Joe Frazier, George Foreman in his prime, Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, Archie Moore, Kenny Norton, Ingemar Yohannson and Larry Holmes. Synonymous with the phrase, "The Greatest".
1. Sugar Ray Robinson...in a career that spanned three decades, he consistently outshined everyone else around the boxing circles of the world. Robinson was the perfect combination of speed and power, compiling the types of knockouts in such rhythmic and brilliant fashion that he captivated boxing audiences like no fighter ever had before. A former welterweight world champion, Ray held the middleweight world title five times. 175 wins. 19 losses. 16 of these losses came after the age of 35 as his skills began to fade. Once fought 3 times in 21 days and twice in eight days. Holds wins over Carmen Basilio, Jake "The Raging Bull" Lamotta, Henry Armstrong, Gene Fullmer, Rocky Graziano and Randy Turpin. Like I said before, a more perfect combination of the elements it takes to make a great great boxer had never come together so well before in one man as they did Sugar Ray Robinson. Pound for pound the best that ever lived.
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
CC Diamonddave for the time and effort you put into your post. Always good to see people back up their posts (right or wrong) with supporting evidence and opinions.
However, there is no way that James Toney, Oscar, Bernard Hopkins, and Evander Holyfield are among the top 8 boxers of all-time.
I'm not sure that James Toney is even Top 75, and I am a huge Toney fan, he's one of my favorite all-time fighters.
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
CC Diamonddave for the time and effort you put into your post. Always good to see people back up their posts (right or wrong) with supporting evidence and opinions.
However, there is no way that James Toney, Oscar, Bernard Hopkins, and Evander Holyfield are among the top 8 boxers of all-time.
I'm not sure that James Toney is even Top 75, and I am a huge Toney fan, he's one of my favorite all-time fighters.
Agreed. CC to ya DD but I pretty much disagree with the entire list. That's the good thing about these list though they are purely subjective.
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
i agree with amat hearns is way too high so is toney hopkins oscar at number 6 ?? how did you come up with that bro ?? and how is holyfield 4th ?? sorry mate maybe you can explain because i dont get how there so high and louis is 17
but cc for the effort anyway
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Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Ok this is my second go at this list.
1. Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Willie Pep
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Gene Tunney
6. Joe Louis
7. Benny Leonard
8. Stanley Ketchel
9. Lou Ambers
10. Archie Moore
11. Pernell Whitaker
12. Marvin Hagler
13. Kid Gavilan
14. Jack Dempsey
15. Ray Leonard
16. Bernard Hopkins
17. Roberto Duran
18. Carlos Monzon
19. Oscar De La Hoya
20. Julio Cesar Chavez
I don't know. I still think the order is off but I like them all to be in the top 20. Maybe not in that order but I like this one better then my last. I'm satisfied. And I'll gladly defend everyone's place on the list.
