Just watched Hagler v Leonard for 1st time in 19 years - my card

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

SRL is cooler then Hagler anyways.

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NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

Sugar Ray's the nice kid your Mum wanted you to play with who was good at everything but you hated because everyone licked his ass. Hagler is the guy you actually liked.

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Originally Posted by littledave

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

SRL is cooler then Hagler anyways.

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NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

Sugar Ray's the nice kid your Mum wanted you to play with who was good at everything but you hated because everyone licked his a**. Hagler is the guy you actually liked.

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cc you said it perfectly!! ;D

I never really understood the robbed thing either, I don't see how you could give Hagler more than 7 rounds, and if you had it 7-5, how is that a robbery? That's one close round from being a draw.

One other thing I've never understood is the whole "you've gotta take the title away from the champ" deal. I score round by round, if I thought a guy won a round then I give it to him, and at the end the guy with the most rounds is the winner. How complicated is that? I judge rounds in championship fights just like I would in a non title fight, maybe that's odd, I don't know.

Oh and I had it for Hagler by a point, years ago though haven't seen it in a while, because of more effective punching, but I could easily see it being a draw or a close Leonard win, not a robbery.

Close fight that could have gone either way its not a robbery by any means

I never watched this fight but I don't understand why hagler would give up the first 4 rounds and why he did not throw like people say. From what i seen of him he's a pretty fast starter and he had not prblem chasing and trading with guys like Hearns and Mugabi but why would he be reluctant to thow against Leonard.

jut watched the fight and scored it 115-113 too sugar ray

The fight was boring as hell. Leonard didn't win the first round. He ran most of the fight. Hagler didn't cut off the ring enough, he just plodded straight ahead. This fight bored the hell out of me. The only exciting parts were when Hagler got Leonard on the ropes. I can't even watch the fight. It sucked.

He did run, but you have to objective and score the fight on scoring punches landed and not whether you don't like fighters than run and hold.

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Originally Posted by baller

I never watched this fight but I don't understand why hagler would give up the first 4 rounds and why he did not throw like people say. From what i seen of him he's a pretty fast starter and he had not prblem chasing and trading with guys like Hearns and Mugabi but why would he be reluctant to thow against Leonard.

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long time since i seen it but i think hagler was trying fight right handed even commentator said he gave up first 4 rounds . hagler should of had rematch against him really and i think leonard done very well considering he hadnt fought since 1984

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Originally Posted by sexydarin

The fight was boring as hell. Leonard didn't win the first round. He ran most of the fight. Hagler didn't cut off the ring enough, he just plodded straight ahead. This fight bored the hell out of me. The only exciting parts were when Hagler got Leonard on the ropes. I can't even watch the fight. It sucked.

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in a vacuum, it may have sucked.

but with the history of those two fighters, the threat to leonard's eye and uncertainty around his comeback, the big stage and hype, it was dramatic.

hagler blew it in round six. after his best round, he should have capitalized on his momentum. leonard was spent. hagler let him off the hook, leonard flurried in the final seconds, and stole it. when people say leonard stole the fight, this is the round in which he did it.

Old thread lol

Had it 115-114 for Leonard

Me 2 ;)

I had this one 114-114. Hagler would of easily won if he hadn't gave away the fight early

I always take a lashing from people when I say my score's so here goes. I had it 8 to 4 for Hagler. Yes I am one of those people who think Hagler was robbed.Yes Leonard racked up points but remember this is the pro's not amatuer's. IMO If Hagler hadn't of pressed their would have been no fight.To me this fight will go down as Ali Frazier II a robbery.

Hagler 115 - 113

I thought Hagler won and still do.

He looked a shell in this fight though.

People give SRL all the close round because he showboats like he's winning, alot of the rounds he won, were won with flashy bursts, not overall landed shots. He stole alot of rounds, I guess being the aggressor didn't give Hagler any points...oh he was the aggressor all night. For Hagler to just straight up say "Fight me like a man, ***ch" and then Leonard gives that oh hell no I'm gonna pussyfoot my way to a victory face, sums it up pretty much. Hagler should have got the nod, but the very least should have gotten a rematch, but no, SRL wouldn't do it. Hagler said f this and just retired....

LATER NOTE:
Is it me or is SRL yelling PHUK YEAH, PHUK YEAH when they announce him the NEW. I can only see his lips moving and that is what I see him saying. What do you see him saying?

First of all, I am was and always shall be a huge SRL fan I am still trying to be opened minded and very objective about this fight.
Here we go with how I saw it.


1.- Leonard 10-9
2.- Leonard 10-9
3.- EVEN 10/10
4.- Leonard 10/9 ---- EVEN 10/10 My contraversial scoring see notes
5.- Hagler 10/9
6.- Leonard 10/9
7.- Hagler 10/9
8.- Hagler 10/9
9.- Hagler 10/9
10.- Hagler 10/9
11.- Leonard 10/9
12.- Leonard 10/9

Had I not watched the replay of the 4th round lol I would have it

115 to 115

And then this was only because I accidently seen the low blow after. lol

This was because I watched the 4th round twice
115 Leonard
114 Hagler



Round 1.- Not much action. SRL takes advatage of the 21' ring a couple of good flurries from Ray wins him the round. Hagler fighting orthodox but when he switched to South, he was able
to land a huge shot to the body of Ray. Hagler just can't catch Ray who is all over that huge ring.

Leonard 10-9



Round 2.- More running from SRL but still manages to land the more significant blows to win him the round.

Leonard 10-9



Round 3.- Much better round for Hagler who comes out fighting with his southpaw style. Hagler much more effective and lands the more crisper punches early. Ray continues to circle, run dance what ever you want to call it. Does enough in the later part of the round to make the round even.

EVEN 10/10


Round 4.- I had to watch this round twice lol
Hagler came out more aggressive and was switching from orthodox to southpaw. The key phrase here has to be Effective Aggressiveness, although Hagler was more aggressive, was he really effective? Not entirely. Hagler still had to chase Leonard around the ring. Hagler was instructed to get inside and rough Leonard up which he did a couple of times but Leonard was able to flurrie and land some hard clean shots of his own. The only thing that would allow me to give this round to Leonard was that tremendous spot on bolo punch which sticks to the brain. Other than that, the fight was pretty even but I still have to give this one to Leonard by a coochie hair.

Leonard 10/9
After watching the replay slow mo, that bolo punch was low :o

Too bad this sport for judges does not have instant replay. Judges dont have the luxury to stop the fight, rewind and review.

So, now I have to go back and score this round even too. But do I have the right to change my score? No but I am lol so this fight and score card can be debated and will be questionable and might leave room for arguments later on... We shall see what happens.

EVEN 10/10


Round 5.- A very tough round to score in the begining Hagler confusing me with his switches from ortho to southy and it looked as though Leonard was getting the best of Hagler and it seemed as though Hagler was getting tired but he comes back and lands some huge shots in the end to steal the round. Some people call it stealing, I prefer to call it securing the round.

Hagler 10/9


Round 6.- Hagler wild and is trying to land by leaping in. The commentators are saying that Leonard looks tired and is breathting heavy but I see Hagler slowing down and breathing heavy too. Commentators saying SRL's punches have nothing on them but SRL is clearly landing some nice clean shots (Did the commentators forget that Hagler has never been stopped and is a one way come forward human wrecking machine that is hard to put a dent in? I guess so geesh.)
Leonard mid round teeters on the ropes and gets the best of Hagler. Ray Leonard showing why he is such a great fighter off the ropes with his patented flurries and show shines ;) Clear Leonard round as he finishes strong with more of of his amazing flurries landing clean hard shots to the face head and body of Hagler. (Commentators claim this was a tougher round to score?) What fight are they watching?

Leonard 10/9



CONTINUED BELOW.

Round 7.- Both fighters looking a little tired. SRL's footwork has slowed down and Hagler is able to land some nice hard shots and is winning the fight by just continuining to move forward and land what he can. Ray comes back in the second half of this round to try and steal (secure) the round and the stupid crowd goes wild ali style shuffle and flurries from SRL trying to convince the judges but in the closing moments it's Hagler once again landing some nice huge shots to the body and an upper cut from Hagler has to seal this round for him. Angelo in the corner tells Ray that he is making it look as though he is getting hit but that he isnt. Not entirely true but partial truth yes. I want you off those ropes and I want you to box (run) lol. I agree because SRL lost this round on the ropes in the final seconds. Close round.

Hagler 10/9


Round 8.- Both fighters dipped in crisco but Haglers face has a double dipping and the ref does not force either man to get a wipe. Just as Hagler is getting the best of SRL at the start of round 8, ref steps in because of some lose tape which I dont see as lose. Hagler was landing his jab as if it were a jack hammer. Ok their was just a little piece of tape hanging but this should not have been a reason to stop the action that was in favor of Hagler. Now in the corner, ref does notice the glob of crisco on SRL's chest and tells Dundee to wipe it off. How he has not seen the paste on Hagler's face is beyond me. Side note, great to hear Angelos voice in the back barking jab, jab, jab, the good ole days memories of Ali ;) Hagler comes out doing the same thing and is winning the fight with his jab. Ray goes on the move and manages to land some flurries to try and even the score but Hagler begins working the body and is more effective, although missing many still landing shots that count. Round for hagler as SRL once again hits after the bell.

Hagler 10/9

In Haglers corner? They are talking and saying that the ref took a point away from SRL? I don't remember this. I don't remember SRL being deducted a point for hitting after the bell. hmmmm. Remember folks this fight is older than dirt and I have not seen it in ages myself.



Round 9.- Best round so far amazing action and my hero (yes SRL was my hero) is getting hit hard. A very hard round to score as both fighters are putting in tremendous work and effort. Exchanges of blows are comming and going. It would seem as though the harder punches are coming from Hagler but the fast flurries are coming from SRL both fighters landing with what ever they can find works. This round is so close I don't know what say. How do you score this round? That all depends on what you like and that is the bottom line for the judges and it sucks. Does a judge like showboating and flurries? Does a fighter like a runner boxer or a come forward kind of guy like Hagler? I am a huge SRL fan and part of me wants to give this round to Ray but the other part of me wants to give this round to Hagler. Could I score it even again? I would hate to be a judge sometimes. Still and may see this round differently tomorow but Hagler takes this round.

Hagler 10/9



Round 10.- Leonard on his bike and is not trying to use all of his energy by landing the hard clean shots which makes this another hard round to score while Leonard is doing his little flurries, he is not landing all of those punches hard just pitter patters and I can see the illusion Ray is trying to pull off. Again, the harder punches are coming from Hagler but these rounds are still very close. I wont argue with anyone who might have given this round to Leonard.

Hagler 10/9



Round 11.- I don't always agree with the what the commentators are saying and they just confirmed what I said, that the 10th round could have gone either way. I feel if rounds like that are this dificult to score, they should be given 10/10. Anyway... Ray is now throwing his shots with more convitions and is landing some nice clean crips left hooks, and is also taggin haggler with his flurries that have just a little more pop in them in this round. Hagler doing as instructed from his corner is lunging in when even SRL begins to back up but Hagler is missing and now SRL is making Hagler miss over and over again, Ray trying to bait Hagler in to come closer by playing posum and acting as though he is too exausted to even keep his hands up hoping he can steal on Hagler with some flurries at the closing round SRL looks to his corner I guess to see how much time he has and just as the bell is about to ring, SRL rips some flurries to secure the round and lands yet again a few shots after the bell. Text book stuff but, SRL should have been warned at least for this again because Ray knew exactly what time it was. A point deduction maybe too because SRL had already pulled this trick a few times in the earlier rounds, go figure. Way walks to his corner and we cant tell wether he is that exhausted or he is just playing the crowd but he is dragging his feet and hand railing the ropes. Angelo not happy with this smack Ray in the butt and sits him down. In the corner, Angelo is giving Ray his last pep talk which is more of a pump me up by yelling three more minutes and the other man in rays corner also begins to shout and manages to pump SRL up. I did not know that SRL was that much of a pump up case but it managed to work because as quickly as ray sat down, with plenty of time on the clock to sit and rest in his corner, jumps off his stool and raises his hands with some premature celebrating as if he has already won the fight. Clearly SRL was playing the crowd. I did not remember this happening when I saw it the last time nor the first time nor the 6th time lol. Funny how you notice something new everytime you rewatch a fight.

Leonard 10/9



Round 12.- Not a hard round to score as you could clearly see the game plan. Leonard running, flurring, running, flurring and just does enough to win the round. Not a very exciting ending but the crowd was eating up the show boating. Too bad this was not a 15 round bout, I think it is safe to say that outcome might have been different as many 15 round fights ended in the 14th and 15th round. True championship rounds those were but different era and none of us can say we are purist because when this 15 to 12 rules was changed, the purist died with it.

Leonard 10/9



Amazing fight in her time and let's how I scored this. I always said Ray won no matter what but let's see what my score card says and remember that I watched one round twice lol and used the replay to sway my score so.... My card is a bit tainted but it should make for some interesting debate.


A fight in which Leonard wanted to fight for 12 rounds and not 15 and this was too bad because just maybe, had this been a 15 round fight, we might not be having this discussion

I made a mistake but those of you who know what time it is will eventually spot it. thanks.

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

I always take a lashing from people when I say my score's so here goes. I had it 8 to 4 for Hagler. Yes I am one of those people who think Hagler was robbed.Yes Leonard racked up points but remember this is the pro's not amatuer's. IMO If Hagler hadn't of pressed their would have been no fight.To me this fight will go down as Ali Frazier II a robbery.

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Because you post your scores you get a lashing? It should be the other way around. People who post one sentence to bullshiet and pretend should be the ones who get a lashing. Do your work and phuk the biatches that lash at you, lash back bro. I had no problem posting my score with notes and neither should you. You see a lot of these guys get in a thread and dont say anything, they pretend and they will say yes I seen this and I saw that and just post something they saw on another forum ;D like that 16 year old punk named leftylea. Don't let some of these punks get to you, you have to understand most of them are little 60 lbs wimps who cant fight a lick on the streets and they get bad on line. E - Soldiers E-Thugs are like Studio Gangstas and thus fear them not.

I always wondered why did Hagler come out orthodox and try to box Leonard?

He was trying to confuse Leonard but confused himself. I had it 6 rounds even.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

I always wondered why did Hagler come out orthodox and try to box Leonard?

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It is one of the biggest arguments but in the end it was a team decision and not something Hagler himself came up with on his own. Hagler should have switched back and forth a little more and not stuck with the whole orthodox stance for so long. If you read my notes, as soon as he switched to southpaw, he was able to find Leonard but the team came up with this strategy and I guess they were just following their game plan, not very effective if you ask me.

I have scored the fight myself and on my card, it was not a robbery, the fight was very close, anyone who says Hagler was robbed, is full of shiet.

Hagler wasnt a natural Southpaw,He is right sided. He had experimented orthadox I assume and decided to switch, and ego had decided that He could outbox Ray being an orthadox Fighter or so it would appear He was that confident. Anyway Thats my reading of it, but it backfired bigtime, and after six rounds it was catch up and Rush. He had lost His Tempo and Rythem and composure, He Fucked up big time. Ray must have thought his Birthdays had all come at once ;D

Cant remember my score card but I know I had SRL just about winning.;D

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Originally Posted by porkypara

Cant remember my score card but I know I had SRL just about winning.;D

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Of course you did because you are a SRL fan ;D I had him winning too but I have since re watched the fight and it was close and if you see my notes, you will see just how very close I scored it. The fight could have gone either way leonard up by one, draw or hagler up by one, it was that damn close.

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

I always take a lashing from people when I say my score's so here goes. I had it 8 to 4 for Hagler. Yes I am one of those people who think Hagler was robbed.Yes Leonard racked up points but remember this is the pro's not amatuer's. IMO If Hagler hadn't of pressed their would have been no fight.To me this fight will go down as Ali Frazier II a robbery.

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Because you post your scores you get a lashing? It should be the other way around. People who post one sentence to bullshiet and pretend should be the ones who get a lashing. Do your work and phuk the biatches that lash at you, lash back bro. I had no problem posting my score with notes and neither should you. You see a lot of these guys get in a thread and dont say anything, they pretend and they will say yes I seen this and I saw that and just post something they saw on another forum ;D like that 16 year old punk named leftylea. Don't let some of these punks get to you, you have to understand most of them are little 60 lbs wimps who cant fight a lick on the streets and they get bad on line. E - Soldiers E-Thugs are like Studio Gangstas and thus fear them not.

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No I don't mean on the boards in the gym's around the area

Quality fight,but you could flip the score,I thought at the time Hagler had squeeked it out

I scored this 2 days ago on fightjudge.com.

115-113 for Hagler.

Digging for the gnarled up yellow labled Tape on the shelf Lol. I had Leonard winning this by 2 and timing things out.Shame no rematch.

Question who promoted the Fight, theres a clue there ;D

I've watched the fight maybe 50 times... and each time I have Leonard winning a close decision.

You can talk about Leonard having the size of ring, gloves and distance of the fight as he wanted but Hagler had to agree to these conditions and he still took the fight.

5 years with only one unimpressive fight for Leoanrd and fighting a natural middleweight. Is anyone suprised Leonard used hit and run tactics... he would have been plain stupid to stand and slug it out with Hagler for these reasons.

Hagler must have known the tactics Leonard would use and to me if he could not devise a plan to beat those tactics then that's a failing on his part. Before the fight Hagler told everyone to stay in their seats as the fight did not neccesarily have to go 12 rounds. He also said that he was going to hurt Leonard. Yet when it came to the fight he played straight into Leonards hands and gifted Ray the first 4 rounds.

Yes Leonard was exhausted at the end of the fight... 1 fight in five years will do that to you.

Was Hagler robbed maybe... but not by Leonard or the judges. He was robbed by himself and his team for not having a plan to beat a fighter he knew would hit and run.

Leoanrd messed with Haglers head before the fight... which may have affected Haglers game plan... he messed with his head during the fight... feigning exhaustion at times to confuse Hagler... which deffo affected HAglers game plan... he messed with his head after the fight and that for a while affected Haglers life.

Two great fighters but as the record states Leonard by decision.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Question who promoted the Fight, theres a clue there ;D

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Wasnt it Bob Arum?

Haglers Promoter ;D

Richard Steele, the referee, said every time he watches it, "it gets closer".

Same with me.

Take it out of context, and place it in a vacuum, and it's probably a draw.

But of course it wasn't in a vacuum.

Leonard won for a reason.

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Originally Posted by SorceryatCaesar

Richard Steele, the referee, said every time he watches it, "it gets closer".

Same with me.

Take it out of context, and place it in a vacuum, and it's probably a draw.

But of course it wasn't in a vacuum.

Leonard won for a reason.

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Yes fights are about perceptions and Leonard coming out of retirement, against a murderous Hagler who was untouched, anything Leonard was going to do was going to over emphasised and he nicked a close decision to make the fairy tale come reality.

However if that was against a mandatory challenger who did not carry much prestige and exactly the same happened the Hagler would have got the decision because all the challenger was doing was throwing pity pat ineffective punches during the rounds.

No one was robbed in this fight, it was a complete tossup with arguments to be made for both sides.

Personally I thought Leonard snagged it by a round.

I tend to find that the people who say Hagler was robbed are either fans of Hagler or haters of Leonard. I am a fan of both and I think Leonard won a close fight.