The Greatest of All Time in each individual division

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

CC Big man,awesome thread,when I get time,I'll post my list! Yours looks pretty close to mine though!

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CC back m8

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Originally Posted by amat

Flyweight - Jimmy Wilde

Bantamweight - Carlos Zarate

Super Bantam - Wilfredo Gomez

Featherweight - Wille Pepp

Superfeather - Marco Antonio Barrera

Lightweight - Roberto Duran

Lightwelter - Julio Cesar Chavez

Welterweight - Sugar Ray Robinson

Middleweight - Marvin Hagler

Super Middleweight - Joe Calzaghe

Light Heavyweight - Archie Moore

Cruiserweight - Evander Holyfiled

Heavyweight - Muhammad Ali

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CC Nice list m8

sry if you think archie moore, billy conn or any of those old timers would even get a UD on Jones you're smoking quality drugs and need to start sharing

just one mans opinion :)

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Originally Posted by raleights

sry if you think archie moore, billy conn or any of those old timers would even get a UD on Jones you're smoking quality drugs and need to start sharing

just one mans opinion :)

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I don't I had Jones No1 Light Heavy ;)

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Originally Posted by raleights

sry if you think archie moore, billy conn or any of those old timers would even get a UD on Jones you're smoking quality drugs and need to start sharing

just one mans opinion :)

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archie moore was great tatical fighter he knew all the tricks and was tough as nails i think hed give jones run for hes money yes and doesnt mean im on drugs either just an opinion

Whats this about better training techniques nowadays, Im fasinated to know what they are. How is a 10st man bigger now than 40 years ago, Im openminded please enlighten me.

Roy Jones would be much better conditioned and 2 fast for archie Jones would win by stoppage in round 6 or 7

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Whats this about better training techniques nowadays, Im fasinated to know what they are. How is a 10st man bigger now than 40 years ago, Im openminded please enlighten me.

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I think there is better equitment nowadays and also you have sport supplements and stuff creatine for example...An example would be perhaps the 100 metre sprint race It is now under 10 secs where over 50 years ago it was around 12 seconds,,So the human race is always getting stronger and faster,and smarter I guess...Hope this helps... :D

yes but in old days they used to train harder than boxers today

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Whats this about better training techniques nowadays, Im fasinated to know what they are. How is a 10st man bigger now than 40 years ago, Im openminded please enlighten me.

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Guys might be stronger but they aren't as tough...at least in my opinion

In 1936 the world record 10/2 broken on a cinder track, without the competition there is today[ it was a minor sport with no money involved]Boxing was at its peak as far as numbers taking part , economics of the time, hard times breed hard men. they say that when Owens broke the record if it had been on an all weather track it would have been 9 /7, without drugs

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Originally Posted by nigel2smooth79

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Whats this about better training techniques nowadays, Im fasinated to know what they are. How is a 10st man bigger now than 40 years ago, Im openminded please enlighten me.

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I think there is better equitment nowadays and also you have sport supplements and stuff creatine for example...An example would be perhaps the 100 metre sprint race It is now under 10 secs where over 50 years ago it was around 12 seconds,,So the human race is always getting stronger and faster,and smarter I guess...Hope this helps... :D

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shoes were crap and track was crappy aswell not like standards now id like to see athelets run on the track they had to run on and get 9.77  ;)

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by nigel2smooth79

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Whats this about better training techniques nowadays, Im fasinated to know what they are. How is a 10st man bigger now than 40 years ago, Im openminded please enlighten me.

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I think there is better equitment nowadays and also you have sport supplements and stuff creatine for example...An example would be perhaps the 100 metre sprint race It is now under 10 secs where over 50 years ago it was around 12 seconds,,So the human race is always getting stronger and faster,and smarter I guess...Hope this helps... :D

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shoes were crap and track was crappy aswell not like standards now id like to see athelets run on the track they had to run on and get 9.77 ;)

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That is also a very valid point ;)

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by Mintymen

IMO prime RJJ beats any SMW/LHW in history.

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Greatest, imo, is based off of accomplishments. RJJ wins because he has all the benifits of modern training techniques and everything on his side. If it was a Best Fighter list, it would be almost all modern fighters.

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Well, it's not his fault he was born in the generation where he has that advantage. But what about the modern training? Does RJJs skills and talent as you know not good enough to beat any SMW/LHW. Even the guys from any era had the modern training RJJ had I don't think they can beat RJJ.

Thanks

Roy Jones is R J because of his father, from a child he was kicked up the arse by his dad to have the work ethic he had. If you like old school principles, there was no magic new ideas what made R J it was discipline. What destroyed Roy was new ideas of losing new found muscle and not having the time to adapt to the problems it caused

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Originally Posted by Mintymen

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by Mintymen

IMO prime RJJ beats any SMW/LHW in history.

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Greatest, imo, is based off of accomplishments. RJJ wins because he has all the benifits of modern training techniques and everything on his side. If it was a Best Fighter list, it would be almost all modern fighters.

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Well, it's not his fault he was born in the generation where he has that advantage. But what about the modern training? Does RJJs skills and talent as you know not good enough to beat any SMW/LHW. Even the guys from any era had the modern training RJJ had I don't think they can beat RJJ.

Thanks

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Well that's all speculation. But there were big fights to big made for RJJ, and he didn't make them. Great fighters have big fights. RJJ had no big fights aside from Ruiz. He has wins over big names, like Toney and Hopkins, but didn't face either while they were in their prime.

Again, if it were Who Is The Best Fighter ever to fight at each individual division then it would be a different story. But this is Greatest. And Greatest is predicated on things like big fights, longgevity, quality of competition etc. Actual talent doesn't factor in when comparing fighters of different eras. At least in my opinion it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Roy Jones is R J because of his father, from a child he was kicked up the arse by his dad to have the work ethic he had. If you like old school principles, there was no magic new ideas what made R J it was discipline. What destroyed Roy was new ideas of losing new found muscle and not having the time to adapt to the problems it caused

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Um ....WHAT?

RJJ lost because he didn't block 1 punch then he got gunshy and lost 3 more times. RJJ was disciplined and dedicated much more than most any other fighter in his era....perhaps Mosley and De la Hoya were closest to his level.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Super Feather - Manny Pacquiao (based on his potential to stay there for a while...he COULD eclipse MAB)

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Lyle I would like to think that someone like you who likes to analyse and review things in depth would do that also for boxing topics and not just for all those other threads you create in the hidden board.

To say that Manny Pac is the 'GREATEST' cuz thats what the title states is quite honest absurd. And don't stretch my comments out and over do it. Manny has had 2 huge victories in his career.
His win over MAB was at 126 (Featherweight) not Super Feather. So thats that.
He then faught JMM also at 126 and got lucky with a Draw.


At 130 Super Feather where 'you' list him as the GREATEST hes like this;
He faught Erik and lost a UD
He the faught Hector Velasquez (42-10) not a World Class fighter by any means
He then rematched Erik in TKO'ed him in a very fashionable way
His last outing was against a 'natural' Super Bantamweight Oscar Larios thats 2 weight classes above. Thats like Pacquiao fighting JLC, Cotto or Hatton at 140. I give Larios props for taking the fight after all his career is winding down and I'm sure he was hoping for a miracle that night.

So as you can see, or should I say from what I can see he hasnt done anything GREAT at 130 to be considered the GREATEST there. Hes 1-1 with Erik and has beaten 2 other guys. In all honesty I cant see how you can say he will overshadow MABs career if he keeps on. Now that when you talk about MAB in the feature people will always bring up Pac thats a different story. But remember Sanchez beat Gomez badly and still that doesnt take ANY credibilty away from Gomez and what a GREAT career he had.
So if Pacquiaos the GREATEST at Super Featherweight then damn!!! where does that leave; Alexis, MAB & Azumah ???

And I know you put 'IF' Paquaio continues like this, still at this moment hes not there yet.

By the way quit using BoxRec as your source I've told you before their ratings are way off.

Flyweight - Pancho Villa

Bantamweight - Carlos Zarate

Super Bantamweight - Wilfredo Gomez

Featherweight - Wille Pepp

Superfeatherweight - Marco Antonio Barrera

Lightweight - (tie) Roberto Duran and Shane Mosley and Pernell Whitaker

Lightwelterweight - Pernell Whitaker

Welterweight - Sugar Ray Robinson

Middleweight - (tie) Marvin Hagler and Bernard Hopkins

Super Middleweight - Roy Jones Jr

Light Heavyweight - Archie Moore

Cruiserweight - Evander Holyfield

Heavyweight - Muhammad Ali

Lyle see what I mean about Gomez desptite Gomez loss to Sanchez you just can't black out the great career he had. (look at Starrs post)

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Lyle see what I mean about Gomez desptite Gomez loss to Sanchez you just can't black out the great career he had. (look at Starrs post)

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CMM using me to win a debate :o

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Originally Posted by Starr

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Lyle see what I mean about Gomez desptite Gomez loss to Sanchez you just can't black out the great career he had. (look at Starrs post)

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CMM using me to win a debate :o

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Starr dont get full of yourself (more) I was mearly pointing out that despite Gomez loss his still a great champ. :)

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Starr dont get full of yourself (more) I was mearly pointing out that despite Gomez loss his still a great champ. :)

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I never said he wasn't, I just said he wasn't "the greatest" in that division

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Originally Posted by raleights

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Originally Posted by WWatt

You list CW but not SMW?

And there's no way Jones Jr is the greatest LHW or even top five.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by WWatt

You list CW but not SMW?

And there's no way Jones Jr is the greatest LHW or even top five.

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Billy Conn, Ezzard Charles, Gene Tunney, Tommy Gibbons, Archie Moore...yeah I consider those guys greater but RJJ isn't too terribly far behind

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you're both smoking crack :)

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Roy Jones was good enough to outclass the guys he fought but....frankly he wasn't as great a fighter as his ego seemed to think. Basically he was a pampered showboating clown. So you go back to your own crack pipe.

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Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat

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Originally Posted by raleights

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Originally Posted by WWatt

You list CW but not SMW?

And there's no way Jones Jr is the greatest LHW or even top five.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by WWatt

You list CW but not SMW?

And there's no way Jones Jr is the greatest LHW or even top five.

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Billy Conn, Ezzard Charles, Gene Tunney, Tommy Gibbons, Archie Moore...yeah I consider those guys greater but RJJ isn't too terribly far behind

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you're both smoking crack :)

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Roy Jones was good enough to outclass the guys he fought but....frankly he wasn't as great a fighter as his ego seemed to think. Basically he was a pampered showboating clown. So you go back to your own crack pipe.

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ner i think your way of with that one, boxing is full of ego's and if it werent for boxers ego's we would never see all the best fights becuase they wouldnt take them if they didnt think they could win them would they?...

definately, and while his 'confidence' allowed him to do some truly great things in the ring, his ego wasn't anywhere near as big as he made it out to be

alot of it was for the show just like it was with Ali and Ray Leonard, but some people have the issue of taking everything literal and have a tendancy to let that cloud their perception - unfortunately it takes dickheads like that to make the world go round :)

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Originally Posted by raleights

definately, and while his 'confidence' allowed him to do some truly great things in the ring, his ego wasn't anywhere near as big as he made it out to be

alot of it was for the show just like it was with Ali and Ray Leonard, but some people have the issue of taking everything literal and have a tendancy to let that cloud their perception - unfortunately it takes dickheads like that to make the world go round :)

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No if Roy Jones showboats people hate it, if Morales showboats they say what a warrior, what passion for the sport!! ::**

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Originally Posted by raleights

definately, and while his 'confidence' allowed him to do some truly great things in the ring, his ego wasn't anywhere near as big as he made it out to be

alot of it was for the show just like it was with Ali and Ray Leonard, but some people have the issue of taking everything literal and have a tendancy to let that cloud their perception - unfortunately it takes dickheads like that to make the world go round :)

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yeh man i agree!!
his confidence and slight ego got him far!!
i just watched him fight glen jonson earlier and he just didnt want it as bad as johnson... he looked like he barely wanted it atall when he got in there
there was a lack of passion in those fights and i havnt seen the latest roy jones fight but i hope he brings his old passion for putting on a show in his next big fight and goes and enoys his money!!

Minimumweight - Ricardo Lopez
Light Flyweight - Humberto Gonzalez
Flyweight - Miguel Canto
Super Flyweight - Khaosai Galaxy
Bantamweight - Panama Al Brown
Super Bantamweight - Wilfredo Gomez
Featherweight - Willie Pep
Super Featherweight - Alexis Arguello
Lightweight - Roberto Duran
Light Welterweight - Julio Cesar Chavez
Welterweight - Ray Robinson
Light Middleweight - Terry Norris
Middleweight - Carlos Monzon
Super Middleweight - Sven Ottke
Light Heavyweight - Bob Foster
Cruiserweight - Evander Holyfield
Heavyweight - Muhammad Ali

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

and reason why ali is at top of the list is because the guy beat everyone ken norton jimmy young earnie shavers ken norton joe fraizer george foreman jerry quarry jimmy ellis sonny liston hope this helps ;) thanks for sc whoever done it ;)

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I think Ali was great but I also think he lost 2 0f 3 to Ken Norton, I think he lost the fight with Jimmy Young regardless of the decisions, we know he lost to Joe Frazier and Leon Spinks. I personally think Larry Holmes was right up there with the greatest in the heavy weight division. Looking at the heavies you have to look at Ali, Larry Holmes and Joe Louis, those 3 were not only great but had longevity, and I think Louis would have lost to both Ali and Holmes.

Oscar.. P4P Anyweight 8)

holy shnikeys someone just said Sven Ottke

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Originally Posted by raleights

holy shnikeys someone just said Sven Ottke

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It's only their 42nd post, so take it easy on him and explain in the kindest gentlest way possible that Svenn Ottke was the imbodiment of all that is evil and wrong in boxing.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Super Feather - Manny Pacquiao (based on his potential to stay there for a while...he COULD eclipse MAB)

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Lyle I would like to think that someone like you who likes to analyse and review things in depth would do that also for boxing topics and not just for all those other threads you create in the hidden board.

To say that Manny Pac is the 'GREATEST' cuz thats what the title states is quite honest absurd. And don't stretch my comments out and over do it. Manny has had 2 huge victories in his career.
His win over MAB was at 126 (Featherweight) not Super Feather. So thats that.
He then faught JMM also at 126 and got lucky with a Draw.


At 130 Super Feather where 'you' list him as the GREATEST hes like this;
He faught Erik and lost a UD
He the faught Hector Velasquez (42-10) not a World Class fighter by any means
He then rematched Erik in TKO'ed him in a very fashionable way
His last outing was against a 'natural' Super Bantamweight Oscar Larios thats 2 weight classes above. Thats like Pacquiao fighting JLC, Cotto or Hatton at 140. I give Larios props for taking the fight after all his career is winding down and I'm sure he was hoping for a miracle that night.

So as you can see, or should I say from what I can see he hasnt done anything GREAT at 130 to be considered the GREATEST there. Hes 1-1 with Erik and has beaten 2 other guys. In all honesty I cant see how you can say he will overshadow MABs career if he keeps on. Now that when you talk about MAB in the feature people will always bring up Pac thats a different story. But remember Sanchez beat Gomez badly and still that doesnt take ANY credibilty away from Gomez and what a GREAT career he had.
So if Pacquiaos the GREATEST at Super Featherweight then damn!!! where does that leave; Alexis, MAB & Azumah ???

And I know you put 'IF' Paquaio continues like this, still at this moment hes not there yet.

By the way quit using BoxRec as your source I've told you before their ratings are way off.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Starr dont get full of yourself (more) I was mearly pointing out that despite Gomez loss his still a great champ. :)

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I never said he wasn't, I just said he wasn't "the greatest" in that division

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Lyle I think you need to read the post at top to understand why I said that to Starr.

Bantamweight - Panama Al Brown
Super Bantamweight - Wilfredo Gomez
Featherweight - Willie Pep
Super Featherweight - Alexis Arguello
Lightweight - Roberto Duran
Light Welterweight - Julio Cesar Chavez
Welterweight - Ray Robinson
Light Middleweight - Terry Norris
Middleweight - B-HOP
Super Middleweight - JC
Light Heavyweight - RJJ
Cruiserweight - Evander Holyfield
Heavyweight - Muhammad Ali

CC - for the lists people - interesting stuff ;)

LIGHTWELTER= RICKY HATTON
WELTERWEIGHT = PRETTY BOY FLOYD
LIGHTHEAVY WEIGHT = JOE CALZAGHE
CRUISERWEIGHT = BILLY CONN
HEAVYWEIGHT= JOHN RUIZ

;D

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Originally Posted by raleights

holy shnikeys someone just said Sven Ottke

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yeah sorry mate, but i think he was a very underated defensive fighter. Yes he was gifted a few decisions but he basicly did rule that division. I would have said Joe C but he's not retired yet and when he does he will defo be the best of all time in that division.

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Originally Posted by Poweraxe

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Originally Posted by raleights

holy shnikeys someone just said Sven Ottke

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yeah sorry mate, but i think he was a very underated defensive fighter. Yes he was gifted a few decisions but he basicly did rule that division. I would have said Joe C but he's not retired yet and when he does he will defo be the best of all time in that division.

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Ruled the divsion hahahahahaha

I must've missed all those big unification bouts

only regional pride could make someone mention Sven Ottke in this thread...