Man,that baldomir fight was not controversial! ..zab back pedeled all night ...which would have been fine had he successfully let his hands go while going backwards but he was outboxed and pushed backwards ....i dont remember any controversy lol
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Man,that baldomir fight was not controversial! ..zab back pedeled all night ...which would have been fine had he successfully let his hands go while going backwards but he was outboxed and pushed backwards ....i dont remember any controversy lol
don't know about you, but i thought that Zab looked like shit against Corley, and i think that Judah is like at the bottom of the food chain at 147, all the following would beat him and plenty would only have to connect once to do so,Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Margarito
Mayweather Jr. (again)
Williams (if he can keep him out, he'll knock him out much like he did Mitchell)
Collazo (his speed and the negation of the southpaw stance, plus his better boxing ability he could beat Zab on points)
Hatton (has the chin to take Judah's shots, he'll pressure him into a war and then he'll get caught)
Cotto (he'll bang him to the body and the head with the pattented left hook and Judah will delight us to another shuffle)
Quintana (his size, ability, stance, and power would be enough to beat Judah)
and Baldomir (he proved that he can take Judah's punch, and very well at that, he'd just be more confident now and give Judah way less respect, which is exactly what Judah deserves)
only way that Judah will ever be champion again is if he wins a vacant title against some bum that has fought his own cousins
Zab is a mentally weak fighter. Add to that his porcelain chin and his unwarranted/undeserved arrogance in and out of the ring...you have a chump, not a champ
Zab's a great fighter for the first half of fights.
But if you can take his power, not get knocked out, and keep coming he breaks down mentally. Its happened time and time again which is why the Floyd fight wasn't that surprising, although it was surprising that he did as well as he did early. Judah's faded in fights versus guys as ordinary as Pineda, Corley and Weiss. In all those fights he just stopped doing anything in the mid to later rounds. Even against Tsyzu he looked great for one round, did nothing in the second round and got knocked out. As fights go on he just goes into do as little as possible mode, especially if he gets hurt like in the Baldomir fight (a fight he'd lose again if they had a rematch), and against elite fighters that just doesn't work. I was impressed with him in the second Spinks fight because he was consistent, outside of the Micky Ward fight, when he was not being trained by his father, and to some extent the first Spinks fight how often has he fought consistently? It basically comes down to mental weakness. And you just can't discount that, its a big problem, he's mentally fragile.
haha ccQuote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
;D Its good to see im not the last "Super" Judah fan on this forum.Zab will be back and he will get his belts back.Hopefully we can see a rematch between him and PBF.
Hatton didn't train so hard for Collazo apparently. And Judah is a better fighter than Hatton, maybe not consistently, but when each is at his best, Zab is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by yoitsdan
:lol: Judah got beat by Tszyu, Spinks, Baldomir AND Mayweather doesn't that show he doesn't belong there? Hatton is 10 times the fighter Judah is, and he would absolutly destroy Zab, I tried to be diplomatic, but facts are facts.
hah. hah. hah. So it's a fact that Hatton is 10 times better then Zab because he trains harder... even though all Hulk ever said is that Judah is much more TALENTED. What you then did, is go on about everything that Zab isn't better at, but you couldn't really address the talent issue could you. And saying that Hatton would destroy Zab is also so intelligent and diplomatic of you, considering Hatton has shown so much prominence in fighting welterweight southpaws. Not saying he couldn't win, it's a pick em fight for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by yoitsdan
Yeah and Baldomir knocked out Gatti and hurt him on several occasions with that "average right hand" so I guess Zab has a chin of granite compared to Gatti eh? ::**Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
CC P4P
Yeah and only one had the guts to rematch him and we saw what happened to Spinks ;) Neither Mayweather, tszyu or Baldomir would ever fight Zab in a rematch. BALDOMIR EVEN SAID THE ONLY REASON HE BEAT ZAB WAS BECAUSE ZAB UNDERESTIMATED HIM! So you know for damn sure he isn't fighting a prepared Zab again ;) Mayweather don't have to. And Tszyu didn't want to until he lost his title(Tszyu to Hatton). Sure in terms of talent you could put Zab as one of the best p4p TALENTED fighters in the last 20 years. but in terms of using it he is beneath those like Tszyu and Mayweather and them at the moment. because with the talent he has he shouldn't have lost to Tszyu and Baldomir, but he did and that shows that Talent is one thing, but using your talent is another.Quote:
Originally Posted by yoitsdan
yeah good point.. I'll tell you a little secret... and it pains me to say but like most I actually picked Zab over Kostya.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Judah is without a doubt possibly the greatest waste of boxing talent I have seen in my life.
Maybe its like Hopkins said about Tarver "He's brilliant... the second time around."
Wouldn't call Zab the biggest waste of talent since he has until his career is over to prove that wrong. But a BIG STEP to the right direction is getting a trainer(not McGirt where everyone else seems to go) But someone like Manny. MANNY could bring the greatest out of him.
Zab Judah is the Mike Tyson of the welterweight, not in the fact that he has the same talent Mike did, only in the aspect that if you figure out his one and only strategy he'll break down and fold up and let you beat on him, then he'll take a cheap shot to your sack to try and make things go his wayQuote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
I hate it when people don't face facts, Judah is a waste of talent, all welters are scared of Margarito, Mayweather is beatable, and Hatton beat Collazo, who is probably a top 5 welter. Oh, and Tszyu was a legend, and should come back!
CC and right on, i agree with all of the above, Margarito isn't the best in the division but nobody dares to fight him, Mayweather will get his ass handed to him at 154 if he goes in against DLH or even at welter if he fights Mosley, Hatton beat Collazo (at least i had him winning even if it was just barely), Judah is nothing great, just another fighter that made very little noise and was quickly silenced, and that will be completely forgotten ten years from now, if Gatti isn't going in the hall of fame, well Judah sure as hell isn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by yoitsdan
CC to both of you,except I disagree with the points on Floyd,I don't think either beats him although I hope I'm wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
To say Judah could be P4P in last 20 years for talent is the utter bullshit. He has speed,his power is ovr rated and talent includes things other than speed or power. And what a stupid fucking point,Zab under estimated Baldo,a true champ doesn't do that firstly and secondly,even if Zab is prepareD,what happens whenBaldo lands again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
As for Tszyu,who said winner takes all,no rematch at the press conference? Go and watch the fight again,what the post fight conference and watch the interview with KT STRAIGHT after the fight,Zab brought up the stipulation in the first place.
And you answered your own question,the only 1 to rematch him was Spinks,a fight he should not have lost in the first place,Mayweather beat him easily,he laid out the conditions for Tszyu and and Baldo has no need to go back,especially seeing as Zab got Floyd AFTER losing!! And you're the one that breaches shit about Raheem(remember that?) that he deserves a hot after beating Morales,how can EM get a shot at Pac after he lost etc etc yet Zab got a hot at P4P NUMBER 1 after losing!!
just watched the video from youtube, and the only title i can give to Judah or the only thing i think he will be forever remembered as, is either the funniest mother fucker to put on gloves or the best in ring dancer HAHAHA
Damn Froz, I hate to say this but I agree with you for the first time. I actually had fun disagreeing with you all the time. Lol.... naw man but seriously, very good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
George I disagree with your above statement. With some questionsQuote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Why is losing to Spinks a bad thing?
Lennox Lewis is a true champ and he underestimated people all the time
So has Barerra and Morales. So you shouldn't single out Zab Judah and make a statement like "True Champions don't underestimate opponents" when it's done all the time by true champions. Trinidad also underestimated Wright in thinking he would blow him away with power, same with Hopkins. So I don't agree with what you said.
And you make a point on the statement about Judah and Morales getting shots and who and everything. And thats true. But either way it doesn't make it right. And Baldomir is getting his shot at Floyd now for more money then he would have if he fought him after Judah. I think beating Gatti upped his marketability by A LOT!! And Raheem's loss to Freitas(I had it a draw) hurt his, but neither are getting a shot at Pacquiao. So it can't be the same.
Respond to that please.
:appl:Quote:
Originally Posted by yoitsdan
Tszyu was a legend but his body won't let him train hard enough without injury to make a come back. :(
True champions defend their title successfully, treat their opponents with respect, handle themselves with dignity and give 100% in the gym AND the ring. Thats everything Zab isn't, and everything that marquis fighters do.
james ToneyQuote:
Originally Posted by yoitsdan
;D
Toney went toe to toe with Sam Peter at the age of 38 if I'm not mistaken, and he started as a middleweight, I think that qualifies him as better than Zab. ::**Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Oh and the Knicks rule.
Not by what you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by yoitsdan
"True champions defend their title successfully,
Lost it before his first defense.
treat their opponents with respect
We're talking about the same James Toney right?
handle themselves with dignity
above...
and give 100% in the gym AND the ring.
isn't wacko the one that calls him James "Fat ass" Toney. And Lampley that calls him a fat tub of goo?
Thats everything Zab isn't, and everything that marquis fighters do."
I guess James Toney isn't a marquis fighter then.
He may be a Marquee fighter though ;D
Ok you got me on a technicality, you win Majesty. Agree to disagree? You been drinking tonight, your fiestier than usual, I think we're just eachother's idea of an asshole fan, blinded by their flag, and not willing to back down ;) oh and that fat tub of goo is the saviour of the American heavyweights ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Look at the Heavyweights compared to the Welterweights ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by yoitsdan
And no I haven't been drinking, I don't drink or smoke. I'm just having fun with the debate.
And I thought Rahman was the savior...oh yea....now I remember.. Maskaev's leg ;)
(true story) Heard that Rahman aint answering his calls.
I truly hope he isn't too sad he has nothing to be ashamed about, he put forth a great performance and he should keep his head up.
Rahman was, but look what happened. I hate the heavies aswell, but I love James Toney. He's the most charismatic guy in the division, and he comes to fight. Rahman is not a real foghter, he's an athlete with gloves, not a natural puncher, just a muscly freak.
Your last paragraph is nonsense bill. As for Tito,comparing Tito over estimating(and with his BLITZING power,who can blame him) Winky and BHop,2 of the best fighters to ever lace the gloves to Zab under estimating Spinks and Baldo is a really poor analogy. How about under estimating Pineda? Losing to Spinks is bad because Judah should not have lost to him,and was a big favourite. He is better than Spinks in every department,so that begs the question of how he lost. And please don't compare Lewis to Zab,again,no relevance whatsoever,Lennox lost twice and avenged both defeats with ease.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
You usually make good points Drake but sometimes,you argue for arguments sake,which is pointless.
Gotta say I think your dead wrong here Game.. It doesn't matter how great a fighter is or how great you consider them to be, the point he was making is that Lewis and Trinidad also underestimated opponents on several occasions.... It doesn't mean they didn't have the abilities that they did, but that they weren't always well prepared to use them. You can't just say it's a poor analogy because you don't consider Zab to be as good as those fighters, that has nothing to do with it. It's easy for you to just come up with the typical, "don't put Zab and so and so in the same sentence"... Prevents you from actually having to think about it, I suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
You just made Trinidad look a lot worse Game. You downgrade Judah underestimating Baldomir and Spinks and try to say that they aren't much like you're speaking of Judah's arrogance in himself and lack of discipline right? And yet you say that Trinidad underestimated Hopkins and Winky(and them call them 2 of the best fighters to lace up the gloves) So the mere fact you're making that Trinidad underestimated THEM because he thought he'd blow them away(as great as they were) is making Trinidad look bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
And no, I'm nor responding to you, I'm just letting you know that your comment and the Way you put it makes it seem like Trinidad had less focus and discipline then Judah. Which is VERY VERY wrong imo ;) But I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. And CC in 24 p4p
Well Hatton is about 2/4 in that little criteria ya got there man. He consistently fouls and treats no one with any respect in the ring, constantly rabid punching, hitting on the break, and hitting people in the nuts blatently. So I guess he is only a half marquis fighter. Judah's no angel, he has an tendency to hit people in their balls too, and disrespect people. But he has defended his title successfully at 140, and shoulda never even lost the first Spinks fight to begin with and we all know it, so folks stop bringin that up. Judah beat Spinks BOTH times, clearly.Quote:
Originally Posted by yoitsdan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
while i do agree with you on most points in this post (maybe the first time) i gotta disagree with you on judah/spinks 1.
spinks outpointed him, but judah kicked his ass
spinks won the boxing match, but got the crap beat out of him in the process
had that fight gone another 30 seconds though, no doubt judah knocks him out
i thought id refresh this topic with the judah fight on the horizon and see how people view him now compared to when i posted this back in september. reading through this thread i found some strong debates and discussions
cc to ice cold boxing for finding the link cause i was searching forever and couldnt find it
I had judah spinks one a draw.. With like you said.. Judah handing spinks his assQuote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
I remember hearing the scorecard.. That was the first case of Barrera - marquez!!
A uninimous decsion to spinks all the cards around about 116 to spinks.. I was pretty pissed at that
Indeed a 'Super' Performance in the rematch..Couldnt help but feel bad for spinks though..
He was gutted to loose in his hometown, he had a great crowd that night too
But he didnt dispute the stoppage much, He said in the post fight interview if he had of made it out the round he could have lasted the fight, he didnt say anything about winning.. I think he was gutted about bieng stopped, But the way he talked he didnt much dispute the stoppage
If zab can fight like that against cotto he may well claw his way back to the top ;) :)
You are one funny mother flower.Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
controversial decision against baldomir.
LMAO.
Why are you making more excuses for Zab than Zab makes for himself?
I don't remember you mentioning Zab's Super Chin.
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/199...rswarovoa4.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_G
maybe your boy gets a miracle/crooked decision in his favor which could potentially set up a mayweather vs. cotto mega fight by the end of the year :o
cotto would get soo owned