Lennox Lewis: Could Lewis Still Dominate The Heavyweight Division?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

It was the BEST of a bad situation

What we expected:
1: Lewis wins an easy KO
2: Lewis wins a boring UD
3: Vitali quits on his stool
4: Vitali shocks everyone and KO's Lewis

What we learned:
1: Lewis CAN take a punch
2: Vitali can take a punch
3: Lewis was on the decline
4: Vitali was on the rise
5: Vitali showed EVERYTHING a champion needs
6: Vitali didn't quit

So in essence we learned it was Lewis' time to leave and he did so with a win and a valiant effort vs a young strong fighter. We also learned Vitali is no quitter and he gives the fans what they want KO's!

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Wish we'd learned how he'd do against a top 10 Heavyweight in top form.

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

Anyone who thinks Lennox was on a route to ko vitali is clearly not being objective. Its ok, i understand there are hard core lennox fans, But Point blank,
LENNOX PUNCH STATS WERE DWINDLING! each round
Vitali took a fierce uppercut, that snapped his head back, and STILL kept comming forward.
Lennox lewis was gasping for air during the TKO call, and vitali was Fully energized.
Lennox lewis promised vitali a rematch, THEN RETIRED.
Lennox lewis was out of shape (YOUR THE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP) TOO BAD.
Take a look at the Compu Box. Lennox was gettin his a*** handed to em, and it was only going to get worse.
Anyone who thinks that Vitali klitschko was not a major factor in lennox lewis retiring, just cannot live with the fact that lennox may of left with the belt after that fight, but vitali left with more. People wanted vitali, and the only reason people cared that lewis retired was because they knew they wouldnt see a Lennox vs vitali II to watch the proper ending!

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Why are you using the term 'anyone who thinks Lennox was on route to KO Vitaly?'

HE TKO'D HIM. Forget being on route. Vitaly got stopped on cuts, which came from a right hand. Why do people get so caught up in fantisizing about what 'might have' happened? The only thing that's concrete is WHAT HAPPENED. Vitaly got TKOd. And spare me the 'oh well, um, he didn't get knocked out, it was just from cuts.' If the man didn't rip open like a b!tch maybe he would have stood a better chance. Lennox gets the W and a notch in the KO department. Time to accept it and move on.

ill accept that when you accept that lennox ran like abitch not to rematch vitali

How could this guy say that Lennox had slow hands? Name one boxer that was 6'4 or over 230 that ever had faster hands then young Lennox... even heavier Tyson threw combinations like young Lennox did.

Absolutely UN-f***ng-believable!!!

The amount of denial on this thread is ridiculous..

I just don't have the energy to bash Lewis nor do I feel it necessary but come on guys! Half of us have the fight on tape and the other half have seen it a dozen times. There is no denying that Lewis was on his way to getting KOed. He was more out of gas than I'd seen him previously. He was getting outpunched by a gross margin and the shots that he did land weren't phasing Klitschko.

What we have is a bunch of Lewis fans looking back in the past through rose colored glasses. Sorry guys but he wasn't close to making a comeback in the fight. I've said this a million times before, watch the tape...hell even listen to the commentating. Even Foreman knew Lewis was going to go!

I think the question of this thread is wrong where it says "Could Lewis STILL dominate..." I don't really think he DOMINATED the weight. After Tyson started to fade I don't think anybody really DOMINATED the weight. Everybody was pretty much snatching the titles like playing rugby. The last fighter to dominate the heavyweights had to be Mike Tyson either you hate him or not.

Chino

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Originally Posted by Samson3000

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

Anyone who thinks Lennox was on a route to ko vitali is clearly not being objective. Its ok, i understand there are hard core lennox fans, But Point blank,
LENNOX PUNCH STATS WERE DWINDLING! each round
Vitali took a fierce uppercut, that snapped his head back, and STILL kept comming forward.
Lennox lewis was gasping for air during the TKO call, and vitali was Fully energized.
Lennox lewis promised vitali a rematch, THEN RETIRED.
Lennox lewis was out of shape (YOUR THE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP) TOO BAD.
Take a look at the Compu Box. Lennox was gettin his a*** handed to em, and it was only going to get worse.
Anyone who thinks that Vitali klitschko was not a major factor in lennox lewis retiring, just cannot live with the fact that lennox may of left with the belt after that fight, but vitali left with more. People wanted vitali, and the only reason people cared that lewis retired was because they knew they wouldnt see a Lennox vs vitali II to watch the proper ending!

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Why are you using the term 'anyone who thinks Lennox was on route to KO Vitaly?'

HE TKO'D HIM. Forget being on route. Vitaly got stopped on cuts, which came from a right hand. Why do people get so caught up in fantisizing about what 'might have' happened? The only thing that's concrete is WHAT HAPPENED. Vitaly got TKOd. And spare me the 'oh well, um, he didn't get knocked out, it was just from cuts.' If the man didn't rip open like a b!tch maybe he would have stood a better chance. Lennox gets the W and a notch in the KO department. Time to accept it and move on.

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Great post again Samson .

Someone posted earlier that Vitali took Lewis best uppercut in the 6th and kept coming forward , but it looked like he was stumbling forward to me . How could have Vitali gone on to win ? His best shots bounced off Lewis and Lewis was getting better in teh fight Vitali was getting weaker . I agree when you say " what cuda happend " duznt matta cuz what did happen is Lewis tko'd Vitali and it wasnt even a prime Lewis . A prepared Lewis would have done him in half the time.

As for Lewis retirement - Some say he pussied oyt , well did Vitali pussy out against Rahman ? or was it Williams that retired him ?

Ahaha! i forgot about that Klitschko lovin Seven Dunce dude.... :D

Shat, id of made my Saddo comeback just to argue with him ;D

To make it clear, NO.

No, i dont think Lewis would dominate now as he WAS dwindling back in 2003. Yes Klitschko gave all sorts of trouble but he was worryingly out of shape... That just cannot be overlooked (at his age).

So now, its highly unlikely that he could mount much of a charge towards division dominance.

But back in the day, he was King, NO question! 8)

Vitali Klitschko had a legit injury, and he did the HONORABLE thing by forfeiting the belt so others can take it, and move on. Vitali klitschko scared of Rahman? you have got to be kidding me. ::** ::**
Lennox lewis did Dominate the HWD, he was a dominant fighter in his era. But his era was filled with overhyped fighters, and fighters way past their prime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq1_IA5Ssbk
if you can watch this vid, and say lennox wasnt gettin a beat DOWN, then your crazy

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

Vitali Klitschko had a legit injury, and he did the HONORABLE thing by forfeiting the belt so others can take it, and move on. Vitali klitschko scared of Rahman? you have got to be kidding me. ::** ::**
Lennox lewis did Dominate the HWD, he was a dominant fighter in his era. But his era was filled with overhyped fighters, and fighters way past their prime.

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Yeah but you get that a lot in all boxing eras.

I mean Ali beat Fraizer after he had his ass handed to him by Foreman, so it could be argued that Fraizer was already damaged goods.
He WAS kinda lucky to get his decisions over Norton and i STILL say to this day that if Foreman had a rematch, he would of killed Ali.

Holmes was another excelent fighter who beat a faded Norton (albiet with one arm) to win his belt and then also fought a succession of over hyped and past prime fighters....

Tyson, about the same.

Marciano... Dont even get me started! :-X

It could even be argued that Louis reign was marred by low level opposition...

But it could never mean we could argue that they weren't great champions (Bar Tyson, Maybe) ::**

So why the hate on Lewis? ???

What exactly did Klitschko achive that surpasses him? >:mad

Hi Duce ;D

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

Vitali Klitschko had a legit injury, and he did the HONORABLE thing by forfeiting the belt so others can take it, and move on. Vitali klitschko scared of Rahman? you have got to be kidding me. ::** ::**
Lennox lewis did Dominate the  HWD, he was a dominant fighter in his era. But his era was filled with overhyped fighters, and fighters way past their prime.

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 andrew golota who was fresh off battering bowe around
razor ruddock who give tyson two hard fights
gary mason was 35-0 when he fought lewis
ray mercer aswell was good opponent for anyone in his prime
tommy morrison had chin problems but still decent fighter
frank bruno wasnt bad fighter either he just lacked survival instinct
david tua is good fighter he gave ike very tough fight and he was 37-1 when he fought lewis
michael grant yes not best fighter in world but he was still 31-0 when he fought lewis
tony tucker was 49-1 when he fought lewis and had gave prime tyson tough fight winning 4 rounds and wobbling tyson badly in 1st round with uppercut
holyfield yes bit past it but still very competitive
and few other mediocre oppoents like botha and briggs i wouldnt really call that overhyped opponents

Well i dunno, i mean look at their records at the time of fighting Lewis....

Then look a few years down the line.

Most of em were over Hyped or over rated (Grant, Tua, Mason, Morrison)
And some were just over the hill (Tyson, Holifeild, Tucker)

So i wouldnt claim that Lewis fought loads of great fighters....

But none the less, Lewis did come up with the goods. His performances agianst Tua, Golota, Ruddock and Tyson were just pure immac.

who said vitali surpasses lennox.
IM SAYIN LEWIS WAS A DOMINANT FIGHTER IN AN ERA WITH WANNA BE"S AND OLD MEN.



A HUGE REASON LENNOX LEWIS RETIRED
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq1_IA5Ssbk

actually this is better link to vitali and lewis its full fight http://vidsearch.myspace.com/index.c...oid=1202605071 ENJOY

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

who said vitali surpasses lennox.
IM SAYIN LEWIS WAS A DOMINANT FIGHTER IN AN ERA WITH WANNA BE"S AND OLD MEN.



A HUGE REASON LENNOX LEWIS RETIRED
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq1_IA5Ssbk

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well i would disagree they wernt best fighters but they certainly wernt wanabes they were decent opposition and he retired because he was getting older and he didnt have tools no more i can understand that he beat vitali thats all there is to it yes maybe vitali was up by 2 rounds but a win is a win vitalis eye was bloody mess if it would of gone on anymore vitali would of maybe gone blind in one eye or if not it would of been worse injury than it was

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

IM SAYIN LEWIS WAS A DOMINANT FIGHTER IN AN ERA WITH WANNA BE"S AND OLD MEN.

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So who exactly did Klittschko fight?

Danny Williams? Bwahaha ;D 8)

Listen, its impossible to talk Lewis down in aid of talking Klitscko up.... just because he fought an old fat Lennox does not make him better.

Honestly.. Is Ricky Hatton better than Kostya Tszyu?

Lewis avoided Chris Byrd for fuck sakes he said "who wants to see a lion fight a bird" ::** fucking pathetic

Who really wanted to see the heavyweight champion of the world fight a "white Buffalo" The guy is so contrived

The only "dangerous" fight lewis took was Tua and Tua wasnt even unbeaten, holyfields best win was the rematch with Moorer but we were later to find out that Moorer wasnt that good anyway, Tyson wasnt there since 90.

Akinwande dropped Lewis and got disqualified for holding when lwis was doing at least 50% of it himself after feeling some power, Mavrovitch bullied Lewis against the ropes the entire fight and was unlucky not to get the decision, same with mercer.

Lewis had only a couple of weeks to prepare for Klitschko, well same can be said for Vitali, he took the fight at short notice, he was the one who offered himself as an opponent after johnson dropped out, they had both been training the same for their bouts and Vitali was the fitter in the fight, what would it have been like if Vitali had a decent amount of time to prepare for Lennox, not much different because both were as fit as they were gonna be really, as they were already fighting that night, Lewis did well to cut Vitali but had he not, Lewis had always had stamina problems and the last round we saw was probably his last round of effort, he slumped in to his stool at the end of the round because there was no strength left in him

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Originally Posted by ross

Lewis avoided Chris Byrd for F*** sakes he said "who wants to see a lion fight a bird" ::** F****** pathetic

Who really wanted to see the heavyweight champion of the world fight a "white Buffalo" The guy is so contrived

The only "dangerous" fight lewis took was Tua and Tua wasnt even unbeaten, holyfields best win was the rematch with Moorer but we were later to find out that Moorer wasnt that good anyway, Tyson wasnt there since 90.

Akinwande dropped Lewis and got disqualified for holding when lwis was doing at least 50% of it himself after feeling some power, Mavrovitch bullied Lewis against the ropes the entire fight and was unlucky not to get the decision, same with mercer.

Lewis had only a couple of weeks to prepare for Klitschko, well same can be said for Vitali, he took the fight at short notice, he was the one who offered himself as an opponent after johnson dropped out, they had both been training the same for their bouts and Vitali was the fitter in the fight, what would it have been like if Vitali had a decent amount of time to prepare for Lennox, not much different because both were as fit as they were gonna be really, as they were already fighting that night, Lewis did well to cut Vitali but had he not, Lewis had always had stamina problems and the last round we saw was probably his last round of effort, he slumped in to his stool at the end of the round because there was no strength left in him

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only dangerous fight was tua what about razor ruddock and golota ?? the only reason tua wasnt unbeaten because he fought one of the best hws in 90s ike who threw like 900s punches that was close fight and ike just edged it

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Originally Posted by ross

Lewis avoided Chris Byrd for F*** sakes he said "who wants to see a lion fight a bird" ::** F****** pathetic

Who really wanted to see the heavyweight champion of the world fight a "white Buffalo" The guy is so contrived

The only "dangerous" fight lewis took was Tua and Tua wasnt even unbeaten, holyfields best win was the rematch with Moorer but we were later to find out that Moorer wasnt that good anyway, Tyson wasnt there since 90.

Akinwande dropped Lewis and got disqualified for holding when lwis was doing at least 50% of it himself after feeling some power, Mavrovitch bullied Lewis against the ropes the entire fight and was unlucky not to get the decision, same with mercer.

Lewis had only a couple of weeks to prepare for Klitschko, well same can be said for Vitali, he took the fight at short notice, he was the one who offered himself as an opponent after johnson dropped out, they had both been training the same for their bouts and Vitali was the fitter in the fight, what would it have been like if Vitali had a decent amount of time to prepare for Lennox, not much different because both were as fit as they were gonna be really, as they were already fighting that night, Lewis did well to cut Vitali but had he not, Lewis had always had stamina problems and the last round we saw was probably his last round of effort, he slumped in to his stool at the end of the round because there was no strength left in him

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So i guess that for aguments sake, your gonna inform me that Byrd would of beaten Lewis right? ::**

Rudduck ?

He got stopped Twice and lost 3 times before lewis got there , he was also held to a draw early in his career, tua was the only live real danger that Lewis fought and you can tell thats what Lewis was thinking by his negative back peddling throughout their fight

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Originally Posted by JimBoogie

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

IM SAYIN LEWIS WAS A DOMINANT FIGHTER IN AN ERA WITH WANNA BE"S AND OLD MEN.

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So who exactly did Klittschko fight?

Danny Williams? Bwahaha ;D 8)

Listen, its impossible to talk Lewis down in aid of talking Klitscko up.... just because he fought an old fat Lennox does not make him better.

Honestly.. Is Ricky Hatton better than Kostya Tszyu?

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JESUS MAN. did you not read the sentence before that

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who said vitali surpasses lennox.?

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i never said vitali had better opposition.

I stated 2 things in this damn post.
1) Vitali klitschko is A MAJOR REASON LENNOX LEWIS RETIRED
2) LENNOX LEWIS WAS A DOMINANT FIGHTER IN HIS ERA. HOWEVER HIS ERA WAS FILLED WITH OVERHYPED FIGHTERS AND PAST THEIR PRIME GREATS.
thats it.

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Originally Posted by JimBoogie

Byrd would of beaten Lewis right? ::**

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We will never know because Lewis feared fighting the man that Joe Calzaghe stopped in the amatures so much that he dropped his IBF and undisputed title to avoid him, Byrd never ducked anyone

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Originally Posted by ross

Rudduck ?

He got stopped Twice and lost 3 times before lewis got there , he was also held to a draw early in his career, tua was the only live real danger that Lewis fought and you can tell thats what Lewis was thinking by his negative back peddling throughout their fight

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yes but he was dangerous opponent he could punch as tyson found out ruddock slugged with tyson and people were suprised because only real person to hit tyson at will like that was douglas golota battered bowe around yes bowe was bit passed it but bowe was at that time considered one of the best hws at that time if there not dangerous opponents i dont know what is and u expect lewis to stand toe to toe with puncher like tua when u could keep him at distance ??

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by JimBoogie

Byrd would of beaten Lewis right? ::**

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We will never know because Lewis feared fighting the man that Joe Calzaghe stopped in the amatures so much that he dropped his IBF and undisputed title to avoid him, Byrd never ducked anyone

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oh plz byrd is alot smaller than lewis did u see how wlad battered him thats what lewis would do enuff said ;)

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

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Originally Posted by JimBoogie

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

IM SAYIN LEWIS WAS A DOMINANT FIGHTER IN AN ERA WITH WANNA BE"S AND OLD MEN.

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So who exactly did Klittschko fight?

Danny Williams? Bwahaha ;D 8)

Listen, its impossible to talk Lewis down in aid of talking Klitscko up.... just because he fought an old fat Lennox does not make him better.

Honestly.. Is Ricky Hatton better than Kostya Tszyu?

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JESUS MAN. did you not read the sentence before that

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who said vitali surpasses lennox.?

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i never said vitali had better opposition.

I stated 2 things in this damn post.
1) Vitali klitschko is A MAJOR REASON LENNOX LEWIS RETIRED
2) LENNOX LEWIS WAS A DOMINANT FIGHTER IN HIS ERA. HOWEVER HIS ERA WAS FILLED WITH OVERHYPED FIGHTERS AND PAST THEIR PRIME GREATS.
thats it.

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Lol, i get it.

But hear me now. I STATED TWO THINGS IN THIS DAMN POST

1) Through out history, a majority of most fighters opposition has been over hyped, over rated and over the hill
2) Vitali Klitschko was a rubbish champion.... Far from dominant. SO YOU CANT TALK LEWIS DOWN ;)

And yes, im saying this because i know your opinions are far from impartial. :-*

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

oh plz byrd is alot smaller than lewis did u see how wlad battered him thats what lewis would do enuff said ;)

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That makes it even more ridiculous that Lewis ducked him then got battered in his next fight

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

oh plz byrd is alot smaller than lewis did u see how wlad battered him thats what lewis would do enuff said  ;)

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That makes it even more ridiculous that Lewis ducked him then got battered in his next fight

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ive never heard of lewis ducking byrd why would lewis fight puncher like tua meet vitali who was 6 foot 7 but duck 6 foot chris byrd ?? who isnt that hard of a hitter it doesnt make sense

I can talk lewis down, i can talk anyone down.
Because in no way am i trying to compare the careers of both fighters.
::**

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

I can talk lewis down, i can talk anyone down.
Because in no way am i trying to compare the careers of both fighters.
::**

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At your own expense due... The expense of your reputatoin 8)

Have you no shame? :-*

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

ive never heard of lewis ducking byrd why would lewis fight puncher like tua meet vitali who was 6 foot 7 but duck 6 foot chris byrd ?? who isnt that hard of a hitter it doesnt make sense

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http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstra...is%2c%20Lennox

http://english.pravda.ru/russia/poli.../1071-lennox-0

well maybe he thought he would of got more money from vitali fight if lewis would of fought byrd and retired people would be saying now that lewis ducked vitali  ;) he gave up title doesnt mean he ducked him i find it hard to believe that he would duck byrd

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

oh plz byrd is alot smaller than lewis did u see how wlad battered him thats what lewis would do enuff said ;)

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That makes it even more ridiculous that Lewis ducked him then got battered in his next fight

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Im not sure if ive got this in the right order but im sure Lewis chose to fight Grant/Tua over Byrd n Ruiz.

Now i know in the long run it turned out to be Byrd n Ruiz who ended up champs but at the time Grant n Tua WERE the bigger draws.

Ruiz had already been demolished by Tua and Byrd was already exposed as a chinny fighter by Ike.

I dont think he ducked Byrd as such and i dont think he would of had much trouble with him if they did fight.

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Originally Posted by JimBoogie

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

I can talk lewis down, i can talk anyone down.
Because in no way am i trying to compare the careers of both fighters.
::**

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At your own expense due... The expense of your reputatoin 8)

Have you no shame? :-*

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as much shame as you.

cc for the articles ross

"Meh brr bleh bleh you". 8)

Hope that answers your question ;D

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

if lewis would of fought byrd and retired people would be saying now that lewis ducked vitali ;)

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Thats the thing though, Lewis only retired after fighting vitali because the fight told him he was finished, he wasnt planning it as his last fight, plus he also knew that if he had carried on the outcry for a rematch between thye Two would have meant going through with it and I dont think he had enough to beat vitali

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Originally Posted by ross

I dont think he had enough to beat vitali

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Enough what, though?

Desire, hunger ... I agree. Without those all the other skills become "maybe not enough."

But given desire and hunger, Lewis' other skills would be enough. He'd have beaten Vitali had he come ready.

I just think he lost the will to come ready. It's a lot of work. Maybe his fight with Vitali helped to clarify for him that he didn't want to work as hard as he'd have to in order to put up a good fight against someone like Vitali.

But ... that's not the same as saying Vitali chased him out of his boxing career. I think he formulated his decision to retire based on what he wanted to do - not on what he was afraid he might not be able to do.

Could he have gotten himself in shape and come back to beat Vitali convincingly? I think so.
Could he dominate the HW division at this moment were he in mental and physical readiness? I think so again.

Is he too old to do so? No ...
Is he too comfortable to do so? Probably ...

So is this conversation a waste of time? Maybe ...

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Originally Posted by ross

Lewis avoided Chris Byrd for F*** sakes he said "who wants to see a lion fight a bird" ::** F****** pathetic

Who really wanted to see the heavyweight champion of the world fight a "white Buffalo" The guy is so contrived

The only "dangerous" fight lewis took was Tua and Tua wasnt even unbeaten, holyfields best win was the rematch with Moorer but we were later to find out that Moorer wasnt that good anyway, Tyson wasnt there since 90.

Akinwande dropped Lewis and got disqualified for holding when lwis was doing at least 50% of it himself after feeling some power, Mavrovitch bullied Lewis against the ropes the entire fight and was unlucky not to get the decision, same with mercer.

Lewis had only a couple of weeks to prepare for Klitschko, well same can be said for Vitali, he took the fight at short notice, he was the one who offered himself as an opponent after johnson dropped out, they had both been training the same for their bouts and Vitali was the fitter in the fight, what would it have been like if Vitali had a decent amount of time to prepare for Lennox, not much different because both were as fit as they were gonna be really, as they were already fighting that night, Lewis did well to cut Vitali but had he not, Lewis had always had stamina problems and the last round we saw was probably his last round of effort, he slumped in to his stool at the end of the round because there was no strength left in him

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Well put and fact based.

I agree with everything you said.

Ever since this thread started I've been watching clips of various Lewis fights and I realize that he was probably more chinny than any other heavy I can remember. The guy was wobbled more times than a one-legged hooker.
He made a name for himself be fighting a worn out Holy and a shot-past-his prime, in-it-for-the -money Mike Tyson.

Given Lewis the time to prepare for the style of Vitali I think Manny would have prepared him to beat him. If anything, Vitali had seen Lennox since his brother had always been touted to fight him. And Lennox probably payed no attention to Vitali whatsoever, but eventually he figured out that style. And Lewis was slumping in his corner but it wasn't like Vitali was really pressuring him enough before hand to do something about it imo.

And since when was Stamina an issue for Lewis except for about 4 fights ???

I just think that you can't take anything away from either guy they were both very good fighters....Yes Lewis has the better legacy but Vitali was damn good