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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
yikes, I didn't realize the thread had taken the turn, and Ali was left far behind.
I thought US involvement in Vietnam was an unfortunate quagmire, and was dead set against it.
What we have done in Iraq is worse because we didn't get sucked in slow. We chose it eyes open and willfully full of lies. Stupidest thing possible. I think it probably forms a tipping point toward the decline of the west. Best get in our important boxing matches while we got the time.
Lyle - it's an over statement, what you said, and rude besides. I think it is the moderate Muslims who remain rather voiceless. They get all upset against westerners who dare write some clever but sacreligious cartoons ... all up in arms, and burning embassies, all around the world ... why don't they stand up against the radical muslims and say Hell no that is not the truth! More upset about a cartoon than a beheaded social worker.
That's what bothers me. I want to respect the religion ... for that to happen, the moderates need to show that they can beat the radicals down in the "truthing" department. Who really represents Islam? Those who bring death? Don't tell us that Islam is a religion of peace ... tell it to the muslim brothers who have the bloody machetes in their hands.
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
i agreed with what he did but a part of me wishes he would have opted for a stage-managed soloution so we could see him at the peak of his powers...but anyway ALI, ALI, ALI
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by "PRIDE OF BOSTON"
These men were all heros... For a reason... Ali is forgotten for what he's done for our society... He made a statement!
My father fought in Vietnam... Didn't just fight but was wounded in action twice. He is my hero. People like him have alowed our freedom for many years.
I served for 4 years in the military and 3 months in Iraq(not in a very hostile area, outside of Mosel... a small town) I din't serve like my father. he got 2 purple hearts in Vietnam... He is a hero. Mine anyway. But I digress. My point is this-
Ali was told to go to war-
My father calls him a coward cuz he didn't go!
I disagree....
He became a deeply religous man.(not an excuse... keep readin) He did not dodge the draft... He didn't do anything but due what he beleaved in. How can you not respect that. He served jail time. He fought his war here. (this comes from a Vet) I will never fault him for that. Go to war... Or go to jail! He did the latter... He showed that we all have a choice. We do not have to be robots, although I would nt have chosehis path. I think him a hero in 2 ways-1. He stood up for his religion and what he believed in... 2- He was one of the best P4P's of all time... And his life story is one for the books... Live well Ali!
Ben Franklin said "It is our duty to question our government!!!! It is our right!
dude, what are you on?
The guy didnt even go to jail, all he did was lose the crown for a couple of years.....certainly better than gettin blown up in war
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuthaPug
Lyle - it's an over statement, what you said, and rude besides. I think it is the moderate Muslims who remain rather voiceless. They get all upset against westerners who dare write some clever but sacreligious cartoons ... all up in arms, and burning embassies, all around the world ... why don't they stand up against the radical muslims and say Hell no that is not the truth! More upset about a cartoon than a beheaded social worker.
That's what bothers me. I want to respect the religion ... for that to happen, the moderates need to show that they can beat the radicals down in the "truthing" department. Who really represents Islam? Those who bring death? Don't tell us that Islam is a religion of peace ... tell it to the muslim brothers who have the bloody machetes in their hands.
How is what I posted "rude" or an "over statement"?
The Clinton Administration did a good job of keeping everyone in the dark as to what or why he did what he did with foreign policy. He was able to draw attention to himself and away from some mistakes he probably made...but he was a decent president.
I know muslims who don't go out blowing shit up, I know there are moderate muslims, etc....Where the fuck are they over in Iran and Iraq and Saudi Arabia???
It's not so much the religion but the CULTURE that fucks things up...things that are done over there have been done since the dawn of time.
You know of any Christian martyrs in history?....I know of a couple and they didn't go down swinging, they turned the other cheek and let their persecuters do their worst.
Then again the Catholic church did some evil stuff, but I think we can look back on this terror and compare it to the Inquisition.
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
I like your political spoutings, Lyle (but don't always agree)
It's an overstatement because we fall into the trap of tainting the silent majority with the actions of the overly-violent or loud minority. There are many moderates out there, but they face persecution and violence if they say anything. The rule of law has totally broken down in Iraq.
Iran and Saudi are totally different places in different circumstances, so I am not sure we can legitimately draw them together to make a judgement?
I thought that things like this were definitely not happening over there since the dawn of time - I lived there, and there was no such thing as a fundamentalist muslim (at least that I ever saw or heard of anyway) until we started arming and training the Mujahideen to make 'holy war' on the USSR. That's where all these guys were created.
Also, there have been many many Christian Martyrs in history. Some did what you say, but most did not turn the other cheek. Christian wars of conquest and missionairies devastated China, the Polynesian islands, all of South America, much of Africa, Palestine and Israel etc etc etc.
A religious maniac is a religious maniac, whether he is a muslim, a christian or a hindu. Narrow minded self-righteous bigots. We have them in the UK, you have them in the US, and they do have them in Iraq too.
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
I agree with all those except Abraham Lincoln. Freeing the slaves was done not out of any sense of altruism but fulfilling a threat.
Hell, I'm black, but even I will concede that the South had a right to secede the Union.
Ali was a hero because he stood up for what he believed in despite his livelihood nearly being ruined and almost going to prison. He was very key in turning the tide of opinion against an unjust war.
Malcom X was a hero because he broke away from the people who brought him into prominence to pursue something more pure than what he was taught. He also died for what he believed in.
Martin Luther King for wanting something better for all people, not just his own. And for dying for what he believed in.
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
I know there was some report a couple weeks ago that estimated the death toll of Iraqi civilians as a direct results of American and allied invasion at being between 680,00 and 1.5 million.
I don't know what Iraq was like before, and none of us do by the way, only what our govenrments tells us.
But seeing as we now know that the British and American governments both categorically told barefaced lies to its people regarding Iraq's WMD and the threat to the West I think we can also take Saddam's war crimes with a pinch of salt.
To me Bush and Blair are as guilty as any terrorists, more so in a way because they do it under a cloak of 'righteousness'.
Personally I'd like see them both forced out of office and then to face trial for war crimes.
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Bilbo, please bud, stick to boxing...
FIRST THINGS FIRST.
EVERYONE THAT VOTED FOR the war in IRAQ SEEN THE SAME INTELLIGENCE docs and briefings
EVERYONE! not just tony blair ,and george bush.
its not like george bush had some secret report on WMD under his desk, that only he could look at.
Dont forget, right before Bill clinton left the office, HE was on the brink of going into iraq because IRAQ kicked out and threatend UN weapons inspectors. UN gave Billy Clint "ALL SYSTEMS GO" and the UN said that IRAQ posed A Global Threat to the peace in the middle east. BUT, now that a republican goes into office, and decides "hey, we just got fwocking attacked, its time to start taking out regimes that harbor and support terrorism." Now its not right? GIVE ME A BREAK.
DID we find WMD no, Did we give Iraq enough time to shovel their Shite to syria and other surrounding bathe party supporters? YES.
Is iraq better off without saddam, YES
Plain and simple,
Everyone LOVED the idea of going to iraq when emotions of sept 11 were still running high, But nowthat things are getting tough, people want to cry out CONSPIRACY!!! LIES!!!
well where the hell were you when we first invaded iraq!?
REAL easy to point the finger NOW that shite has hit the fan.
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
....no one tells people that King Hussein killed more Palestinians than the Israli's ever did....but who do they choose to suicide bomb???
If the militant muslims want to kill people FINE but just kill the right ones because right now you're not
The US was in a state of paranoia after 9/11 which sort of built up to attacking Iraq...plus the fact Saddam himself did not say "I had nothing to do with the attacks"....and before you say it is crazy why would he even have to do that, Momar Qudafi said "The attacks were horrible and I/Libiya had no part in them and we will help as best we can"...that's MOMAR the dude who hated us for ages, he even said the attacks were bad
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
did saddam ever box?
no. ok then why are we talking about this then?
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbirdy
did saddam ever box?
no. ok then why are we talking about this then?
People like to pretend they're in the know
They don't realize when one allows themself to walk around looking like this.......
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...rs/OleLyle.jpg
They don't know shat ;)
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Lyle is it true they pay people of your stature to sit on steaks for prolonged periods of time and the end result is beef jerky?
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
Bilbo, please bud, stick to boxing...
FIRST THINGS FIRST.
EVERYONE THAT VOTED FOR the war in IRAQ SEEN THE SAME INTELLIGENCE docs and briefings
EVERYONE! not just tony blair ,and george bush.
its not like george bush had some secret report on WMD under his desk, that only he could look at.
Dont forget, right before Bill clinton left the office, HE was on the brink of going into iraq because IRAQ kicked out and threatend UN weapons inspectors. UN gave Billy Clint "ALL SYSTEMS GO" and the UN said that IRAQ posed A Global Threat to the peace in the middle east. BUT, now that a republican goes into office, and decides "hey, we just got fwocking attacked, its time to start taking out regimes that harbor and support terrorism." Now its not right? GIVE ME A BREAK.
DID we find WMD no, Did we give Iraq enough time to shovel their Shite to syria and other surrounding bathe party supporters? YES.
Is iraq better off without saddam, YES
Plain and simple,
Everyone LOVED the idea of going to iraq when emotions of sept 11 were still running high, But nowthat things are getting tough, people want to cry out CONSPIRACY!!! LIES!!!
well where the hell were you when we first invaded iraq!?
REAL easy to point the finger NOW that shite has hit the fan.
Hmm I guess it's plain to see that you are an American. Maybe as a result of 9/11 Americans did want to go into Iraq to get some kind of payback (even though Saddam had nothing to with it, it was Bush's Saudi allies that were responsible) but over here in the UK there was massive objection to the war.
Over a million marched in protests, a bigger protest than I can remember for anything over here.
We were told that Iraq had missiles aimed at us (UK) and could attack us within 45 minutes, which turned out to be absolute bullshite.
One of our most respected politicians Robin Cook resigned his post as he said at the time that the claims were untrue, now what 3 or 4 years later he has been proven right.
The war with Iraq is a mess that none of us should have signed up for. Far from fighting the war on terror it's stirred up a hornets nest that will reverberate for decades.
George Bush is the biggest war criminal in the world, period.
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
aww Lyle sad clicked me :(
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
aww Lyle sad clicked me :(
I did too ;)
Damm Karma won't let me, ah well means I obviously got you earlier on!
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
aww Lyle sad clicked me :(
I didn't sad click you then.....but I sure as hell did just right now
You just like to try and pick on me to draw attention to yourself.....so let me help you
EVERYONE LOOK AT RALEIGHTS, HE'S ABOUT TO DO SOMETHING FUNNY, IT'LL PROBABLY INCLUDE A JOKE AT MY EXPENSE BUT HE WORKED LONG AND HARD TO GET YOUR ATTENTION SO LOOK AT HIM, LOOK AT THE FUNNY GUY!
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
And no Saddam never boxed but now that you mention it let us not forget the Iraqi boxer that was tortued to death by Saddam's son
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
aww Lyle sad clicked me :(
I didn't sad click you then.....but I sure as hell did just right now
You just like to try and pick on me to draw attention to yourself.....so let me help you
EVERYONE LOOK AT RALEIGHTS, HE'S ABOUT TO DO SOMETHING FUNNY, IT'LL PROBABLY INCLUDE A JOKE AT MY EXPENSE BUT HE WORKED LONG AND HARD TO GET YOUR ATTENTION SO LOOK AT HIM, LOOK AT THE FUNNY GUY!
It's apparent that fat jokes hit a nerve with you my good man :D
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
aww Lyle sad clicked me :(
I did too ;)
Damm Karma won't let me, ah well means I obviously got you earlier on!
Sok, when you say things such as Bernard beating Maskaev is a bigger accomplishment than Joe Calzaghe no one takes you seriously ;)
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
raleights you have the same idiotic jokes as always....I'm honestly pretty fucking tired of it
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
more the reason to keep on with it!
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
I've heard consistency is key in life, well I'm making an effort
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
you're great at being an asshole
bye everyone, I'll be leaving the site now.
you have all the fun you want to raleights....you win.
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
George Bush is the biggest war criminal in the world, period.
I respect alot of your views in boxing, but in politics, bilbo... bud, your a joke, sorry.
Going into war with Iraq was payback? please, sorry bilbo, but searching boxrec.com wont get you any facts for this convo.
USA, along with MANY of its allies, all recieved the same report from UN INSPECTORS in 1998 saying that saddam hussien had the capabilities to launch long range missiles to reach all over europe. also UN inspectors found labs where remnants of anthrax, and other chemical agents were found present.
And to correct you,
SADDAM hussien DID have the capabilities to launch missiles to the UK and other parts of the world. THAT WAS FOUND (but because there werent any warheads on them, they were NOT considered WMD) Saddam Hussien DID break the "UNSCR 687" -that was established in 3 April 1991 which caused the ceasefire in the gulf war. This agreement was formed for IRAQ to disarm and demolish anytype of Ballistics Missiles. And in 1998 (under the clinton admin) saddam hussien said that he did still have a stockpile of Ballistic missiles, and when asked if UN inspectors could go investigate the condition of these missiles, they were told bluntly "NO".
It all comes down to one thing.
United States of America, Police the world. And they are hated for it.
They're Damned if they do, and Shitted on if they Dont.
I wonder what would happen, if saddam hussien did send acouple of ballistics into the UK. I wonder who would of been to blame....
Ya, u know it.
(oh and a side note, The UN is The biggest joke in the world, the majority vote in the UN was against the war in Iraq, WHY? CAN YOU SAY OIL FOR FOOD SCANDAL!)
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
aww Lyle sad clicked me :(
I did too ;)
Damm Karma won't let me, ah well means I obviously got you earlier on!
Sok, when you say things such as Bernard beating Maskaev is a bigger accomplishment than Joe Calzaghe no one takes you seriously ;)
Well you believing the opposite just shows your complete ignorance boxing history.
Calzaghe has two maybe three fights left. If he fought Hopkins and lost his reputation would be irreperably diminished, the same way Lacy's was after Calzaghe beat him. Now everyone agrees that Lacy just wasn't that good and not the elite fighter many made him out to be.
If Hopkins beat Calzaghe well guess what people would say, 'Well Joe just wasn't that great, he was over protected and had one amazing win against an average fighter in Lacy.
So I stand 100% behind my statement, beating Calzaghe does nothing for Hopkins legacy right now.
Now if for example Calzaghe beat Kessler, then beat Jermain Taylor then I would agree, big fight for B Hop, kudos if he wins but right now beating Calzaghe wouldn't enhance his legacy one bit.
Maskaev on the other hand is massive for his legacy as he holds a heavyweight crown. If Hopkins wins, he achieves a feat that no other fighter in history has managed. Yes Jones won the heavyweight crown but he wasnt a true middleweight like Hopkins who reigned as undisputed champ for 10 years.
And by the way, in 20 years time Jones Jr's biggest acomplishment will be his heavyweight crown.
The opponent is irrelevent when considering historical impact.
As you are probably about 18 and have never read a book in your life I wouldn't expect you to be able to undestand concepts as complex as history but the fact is that what matters overall is not the fickle fans opinion of a fighter labelled as great for 15 minutes only for him to be exposed in his next fight but true acheivements that will have lasting historical significance.
Hopkins is 42 and has been in the fight game longer than any other currently top active fighter. He's also a keen boxing historian and is entirely aware of the importance boxing legacies especially his own.
He knows that a winning a heavyweight title would when the history books are written for current era, see him instilled as one of the all time greats of boixng.
You on the other hand are a moron. A young, childish imbecile who thinks every fighter should base their career on trying to fight the )largely uneducated) popular masses idea of the best opponent for that month.
The ironic thing is though that those of you who are clamouring for Hopkins to fight Calzaghe now would be the very same people who said that Calzaghe obviously was overhyped if Hopkins did beat him.
You and your kind are dimwitted moronic fools whose fickle opinions not only have no sane judgement behind them but are also weakly held convictions that toss and turn like flotsam on the beach on a stormy night.
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
Quote:
George Bush is the biggest war criminal in the world, period.
I respect alot of your views in boxing, but in politics, bilbo... bud, your a joke, sorry.
Going into war with Iraq was payback? please, sorry bilbo, but searching boxrec.com wont get you any facts for this convo.
USA, along with MANY of its allies, all recieved the same report from
UN INSPECTORS in 1998 saying that saddam hussien had the capabilities to launch long range missiles to reach all over europe. also
UN inspectors found labs where remnants of anthrax, and other chemical agents were found present.
And to correct you,
SADDAM hussien DID have the capabilities to launch missiles to the UK and other parts of the world. THAT WAS FOUND (but because there werent any warheads on them, they were NOT considered WMD) Saddam Hussien DID break the "UNSCR 687" -that was established in 3 April 1991 which caused the ceasefire in the gulf war. This agreement was formed for IRAQ to disarm and demolish anytype of Ballistics Missiles. And in 1998 (under the clinton admin) saddam hussien said that he did still have a stockpile of Ballistic missiles, and when asked if UN inspectors could go investigate the condition of these missiles, they were told bluntly "NO".
It all comes down to one thing.
United States of America, Police the world. And they are hated for it.
They're Damned if they do, and Shitted on if they Dont.
I wonder what would happen, if saddam hussien did send acouple of ballistics into the UK. I wonder who would of been to blame....
Ya, u know it.
(oh and a side note, The UN is The biggest joke in the world, the majority vote in the UN was against the war in Iraq, WHY? CAN YOU SAY OIL FOR FOOD SCANDAL!)
I'll be honest mate my knowledge of Iraq comes mostly from Michael Moore and reading the tabloids.
I'm sure some of what you say has merit but I'm convinced that any reason for engagement with Iraq came about largely to serve America's self interest.
If they cared so much about social justice they would have forced out Mugabi years ago. I'm not clear on all the actual reasons but I'm sure that unless they stood to gain a lot from it then America wouldn't have invaded Iraq.
But you know more than I do in this topic so I dont want to get into a debate with you on the subject.
Oh and :coolclick: for respecting my boxing opinions buddy. I feel the same regard for you ;)
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
aww Lyle sad clicked me :(
I did too ;)
Damm Karma won't let me, ah well means I obviously got you earlier on!
Sok, when you say things such as Bernard beating Maskaev is a bigger accomplishment than Joe Calzaghe no one takes you seriously ;)
Well you believing the opposite just shows your complete ignorance boxing history.
Calzaghe has two maybe three fights left. If he fought Hopkins and lost his reputation would be irreperably diminished, the same way Lacy's was after Calzaghe beat him. Now everyone agrees that Lacy just wasn't that good and not the elite fighter many made him out to be.
If Hopkins beat Calzaghe well guess what people would say, 'Well Joe just wasn't that great, he was over protected and had one amazing win against an average fighter in Lacy.
So I stand 100% behind my statement, beating Calzaghe does nothing for Hopkins legacy right now.
Now if for example Calzaghe beat Kessler, then beat Jermain Taylor then I would agree, big fight for B Hop, kudos if he wins but right now beating Calzaghe wouldn't enhance his legacy one bit.
Maskaev on the other hand is massive for his legacy as he holds a heavyweight crown. If Hopkins wins, he achieves a feat that no other fighter in history has managed. Yes Jones won the heavyweight crown but he wasnt a true middleweight like Hopkins who reigned as undisputed champ for 10 years.
And by the way, in 20 years time Jones Jr's biggest acomplishment will be his heavyweight crown.
The opponent is irrelevent when considering historical impact.
As you are probably about 18 and have never read a book in your life I wouldn't expect you to be able to undestand concepts as complex as history but the fact is that what matters overall is not the fickle fans opinion of a fighter labelled as great for 15 minutes only for him to be exposed in his next fight but true acheivements that will have lasting historical significance.
Hopkins is 42 and has been in the fight game longer than any other currently top active fighter. He's also a keen boxing historian and is entirely aware of the importance boxing legacies especially his own.
He knows that a winning a heavyweight title would when the history books are written for current era, see him instilled as one of the all time greats of boixng.
You on the other hand are a moron. A young, childish imbecile who thinks every fighter should base their career on trying to fight the )largely uneducated) popular masses idea of the best opponent for that month.
The ironic thing is though that those of you who are clamouring for Hopkins to fight Calzaghe now would be the very same people who said that Calzaghe obviously was overhyped if Hopkins did beat him.
You and your kind are dimwitted moronic fools whose fickle opinions not only have no sane judgement behind them but are also weakly held convictions that toss and turn like flotsam on the beach on a stormy night.
Lol the fact that you would go to the extent of writing and putting this much energy into a post over a joke says volumes about who I'm dealing with.
The first thing you should consider is getting a sense of humor - I know it'll be hard seeing as you're a very dry character but if I can do it so can you. The other thing you should devote some time to is how you make vague generalizations about people who rarely express their views and opinions (as I don't see the point of shoving my way of thinking down other peoples throats - have always wondered why you put so much emphasis on that).
Historically you're right I could give a S***. For me personally it's hard to think of Roy Jones without his defeating James Toney and Bernard Hopkins (2 elite fighters), but then again thats just me... I understand you dig the novelty of Hopkins fighting a heavyweight but quit showing your ignorance and admit that it's just novelty. We're not talking about someone who tactically can match Bernard, we're talking about a guy who's a little bit bigger in size no more no less.
How did you ever come to the conclusion that someone like Joe Calzaghe who could be to Bernard what Hagler is to Hearns or what Leonard is to Duran means absolute dog shat compared to Oleg Maskaev? Forgive me if I can't comprehend your mindset, and I've honestly tried but I just don't see what you're seeing. So maybe try this (since I have)..... Try to look at it from another point of view instead of walking around with the impression that ya know everything :D
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
This basically comes down to you and me seeing Joe in entirely different ways
I've been praising Joe for a long time (long before Lacy long before Byron Mitchell), so if you don't see him to be Bernard's match the views you're expressing have validity. But I (and a lot of other people) see it differently, so realize the difference brother :)
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
.....oh I'm sorry, did I post that
sorry raleights but I guess it's out now....you're a cunt
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
aww Lyle sad clicked me :(
I did too ;)
Damm Karma won't let me, ah well means I obviously got you earlier on!
Sok, when you say things such as Bernard beating Maskaev is a bigger accomplishment than Joe Calzaghe no one takes you seriously ;)
Well you believing the opposite just shows your complete ignorance boxing history.
Calzaghe has two maybe three fights left. If he fought Hopkins and lost his reputation would be irreperably diminished, the same way Lacy's was after Calzaghe beat him. Now everyone agrees that Lacy just wasn't that good and not the elite fighter many made him out to be.
If Hopkins beat Calzaghe well guess what people would say, 'Well Joe just wasn't that great, he was over protected and had one amazing win against an average fighter in Lacy.
So I stand 100% behind my statement, beating Calzaghe does nothing for Hopkins legacy right now.
Now if for example Calzaghe beat Kessler, then beat Jermain Taylor then I would agree, big fight for B Hop, kudos if he wins but right now beating Calzaghe wouldn't enhance his legacy one bit.
Maskaev on the other hand is massive for his legacy as he holds a heavyweight crown. If Hopkins wins, he achieves a feat that no other fighter in history has managed. Yes Jones won the heavyweight crown but he wasnt a true middleweight like Hopkins who reigned as undisputed champ for 10 years.
And by the way, in 20 years time Jones Jr's biggest acomplishment will be his heavyweight crown.
The opponent is irrelevent when considering historical impact.
As you are probably about 18 and have never read a book in your life I wouldn't expect you to be able to undestand concepts as complex as history but the fact is that what matters overall is not the fickle fans opinion of a fighter labelled as great for 15 minutes only for him to be exposed in his next fight but true acheivements that will have lasting historical significance.
Hopkins is 42 and has been in the fight game longer than any other currently top active fighter. He's also a keen boxing historian and is entirely aware of the importance boxing legacies especially his own.
He knows that a winning a heavyweight title would when the history books are written for current era, see him instilled as one of the all time greats of boixng.
You on the other hand are a moron. A young, childish imbecile who thinks every fighter should base their career on trying to fight the )largely uneducated) popular masses idea of the best opponent for that month.
The ironic thing is though that those of you who are clamouring for Hopkins to fight Calzaghe now would be the very same people who said that Calzaghe obviously was overhyped if Hopkins did beat him.
You and your kind are dimwitted moronic fools whose fickle opinions not only have no sane judgement behind them but are also weakly held convictions that toss and turn like flotsam on the beach on a stormy night.
Lol the fact that you would go to the extent of writing and putting this much energy into a post over a
joke says volumes about who I'm dealing with.
The first thing you should consider is getting a sense of humor - I know it'll be hard seeing as you're a very dry character but if I can do it so can you. The other thing you should devote some time to is how you make vague generalizations about people who rarely express their views and opinions (as I don't see the point of shoving my way of thinking down other peoples throats - have always wondered why you put so much emphasis on that).
Historically you're right I could give a S***. For me personally it's hard to think of Roy Jones without his defeating James Toney and Bernard Hopkins (2 elite fighters), but then again thats just me... I understand you dig the novelty of Hopkins fighting a heavyweight but quit showing your ignorance and admit that it's just novelty. We're not talking about someone who tactically can match Bernard, we're talking about a guy who's a little bit bigger in size no more no less.
How did you ever come to the conclusion that someone like Joe Calzaghe who could be to Bernard what Hagler is to Hearns or what Leonard is to Duran means absolute dog shat compared to Oleg Maskaev? Forgive me if I can't comprehend your mindset, and I've honestly tried but I just don't see what you're seeing. So maybe try this (since I have)..... Try to think of it from another point of view instead of walking around with the impression that ya know everything :D
You know what I'll give you a reluctant :coolclick: for a great comeback.
You are right, I do tend to be quite dogmatic on my views but then it's tough always being in the right whilst much of the world is in ignorance. :-\
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Well me and Lyle can't help but be ignorant
We're both from around this region... and you know how they breed us down here
http://www.isitfast.com/images/Decal...eous/texas.jpg
No hard feelings though, just different point of views - CC back atcha
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
southern ignorance is southern ignorance ;D
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
I could understand if you were just ignorant but you're an asshole....no true southerner is an asshole like you
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
People are people, and people are assholes no matter what part of the world you're in :)
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
People are people, and people are assholes no matter what part of the world you're in :)
Yeah I'm a person, you're an asshole
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by "PRIDE OF BOSTON"
These men were all heros... For a reason... Ali is forgotten for what he's done for our society... He made a statement!
My father fought in Vietnam... Didn't just fight but was wounded in action twice. He is my hero. People like him have alowed our freedom for many years.
I served for 4 years in the military and 3 months in Iraq(not in a very hostile area, outside of Mosel... a small town) I din't serve like my father. he got 2 purple hearts in Vietnam... He is a hero. Mine anyway. But I digress. My point is this-
Ali was told to go to war-
My father calls him a coward cuz he didn't go!
I disagree....
He became a deeply religous man.(not an excuse... keep readin) He did not dodge the draft... He didn't do anything but due what he beleaved in. How can you not respect that. He served jail time. He fought his war here. (this comes from a Vet) I will never fault him for that. Go to war... Or go to jail! He did the latter... He showed that we all have a choice. We do not have to be robots, although I would nt have chosehis path. I think him a hero in 2 ways-1. He stood up for his religion and what he believed in... 2- He was one of the best P4P's of all time... And his life story is one for the books... Live well Ali!
Ben Franklin said "It is our duty to question our government!!!! It is our right!
I agree your father. only we should have kicked Ali's country ass outta the U.S on release from jail with complete loss of citzenship the cowardly fuck ! . That my opinion ! ;D
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Re: HERO= Ali..........Dr Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, Abe Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeof74
Only Luther King was worth mentioning(A man of great dignity and salvation for resolve), the other two are just racist scum, just my opinion. Fuk Malcom X( The Black Hitler)
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Truth Be Told. Good Post Duke ! O0
