Can Barrera beat Pacquiao ?

This a case of people blindly building up a fighter too much. There is no question that Pacquiao is a tremendous athlete. His speed and relentlessness pose a serious challenge to any opponent. But he is still far from being a great technical fighter. He relies almost entirely on his power and aggression. People say he has improved alot, but he still mainly just jumps in and out with flurries. He is a much less skilled fighter than a Barrera, Marquez, and even Morales. His balance/footwork and lack of ability to fight going backwards (when you back him up he sometimes looks like he is going to fall over) are still evident. Everyone seems to be buzzing about his destruction of Morales....and credit needs to be given to Manny for finishing Eric...but Morales had nothing left going into this fight...PERIOD. Add to that...Eric pretty much had no strategy....and you have an impressive victory for Pac. But for people to use that as proof that Manny is unstoppable is premature. The Marquez fight was a war...and aside from the first round knockouts...Juan outboxed Manny despite a destroyed nose. It is also not unreasonable to think Barrera was not near his best in the Pac fight. It's true that Barrera and Marquez are not as young and on fire like Manny. But they are both supremely gifted and intelligent fighters. They don't have the wear and tear of Eric and they fight with better ring strategy than Eric. They are not going to fight Pac trying to prove their machismo by just slugging it out with Manny. They will try to win anyway they can. Manny's constant pressure is certainly a challenge. But if you fight him with controlled aggression and strategy (jab, clinch, movement)...he can become frustrated. I just don't see Manny having anything to fall back on. If he doesn't overwhelm you, he can't suddenly turn into a skilled boxer. Marco is smart and has shown that he can still be in tremendous shape. People say he has looked his age recently?! He showed he can still go to war with a strong puncher in the first Juarez fight (even though he wasn't up for that fight since he was preparing to fight Chavez at 135). In the second Juarez fight he danced and busted up Juarez's face with the beautiful jabs. The man knows how to adapt and pace himself. None of this is to say Pac cannot beat Barrera or Marquez. But it is also entirely possible that these two can beat Manny. I just hope we get a chance to watch them fight.

Barrera is an all-time great, but I think Barrera-Pacquiao II would have a similar outcome to their first fight. Barrera has just as much wear and tear on him as Morales does, it's just that Barrera has been able to hide it longer because he was willing to convert to a technical, more defensive style, whereas Morales knows nothing but going straight ahead.
Barrera can still outbox someone of Juarez's caliber, but Juarez isn't the offensive force that Pacquiao is. Pacquiao blitzed Barrera the first time, and all that's happened since then is that Barrera has just gotten older and slower, and Pacquiao has developed more weapons.
Barrera would last longer than the 2+ rounds that Morales did, but I think Pacquiao wins by mid to late stoppage.

Barrera has shown he can either brawl or fight technically. Pac can only fight one way...full steam ahead. If for any reason that fails him he can't revert to another style. Can Barrera keep Manny off of him and box him...maybe/maybe not. As for comparing the wear and tear of Marco and Eric. It's true...Marco isn't a young buck. But he has paced himself and fought smart enough in recent years to still come into a fight mentally and physically prepared. And don't forget...with Eric it wasn't just the wars that cought up to him...it was also the fact that he had to kill himself to make weight in recent years. Barrera is much more comfortable at 130 than Eric has been.

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Originally Posted by zhubin

Barrera has shown he can either brawl or fight technically. Pac can only fight one way...full steam ahead. If for any reason that fails him he can't revert to another style. Can Barrera keep Manny off of him and box him...maybe/maybe not. As for comparing the wear and tear of Marco and Eric. It's true...Marco isn't a young buck. But he has paced himself and fought smart enough in recent years to still come into a fight mentally and physically prepared. And don't forget...with Eric it wasn't just the wars that cought up to him...it was also the fact that he had to kill himself to make weight in recent years. Barrera is much more comfortable at 130 than Eric has been.

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I don't really disagree with anything you've said in this post.
But to me, it all comes down to these points:
Pacquiao has already handily beaten Barrera before. He didn't get lucky and beat him with one punch, he dismantled him over multiple rounds until it got to the point where Barrera's cornermen had to jump in to save their fighter.

Since that fight, Barrera has not improved, he has only gotten older and seen his reflexes further deteriorate. On the other hand, Pacquiao is a better fighter than he was when he TKO'd Barrera. Back then, he beat Barrera senseless with an attack that was just a jab then a straight left hand. Over his last few fights, he has developed his right hand to a point where it is just as dangerous as his left. If a younger Barrera couldn't hold off Pacquiao when all he had to worry about was a straight left, how can an older Barrera now be expected to hold off Pacquiao when he now has to worry about power punches coming from both hands? The odds of this happening are not good.

Also, I'm not convinced that Barrera has much of an offensive attack anymore. In Juarez II, he did nothing but throw a jab and then back up, throw a jab then back up, and so on and so on. That works against a fighter of Juarez's caliber. Against a fighter of Pacquiao's offensive ability, Barrera needs to throw combinations and make Manny pay for coming forward. I have serious doubts that Barrera can still put effective combinations together without leaving himself wide open to be countered by a younger, faster, harder punching opponent.

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Originally Posted by zhubin

Barrera has shown he can either brawl or fight technically. Pac can only fight one way...full steam ahead. If for any reason that fails him he can't revert to another style. Can Barrera keep Manny off of him and box him...maybe/maybe not. As for comparing the wear and tear of Marco and Eric. It's true...Marco isn't a young buck. But he has paced himself and fought smart enough in recent years to still come into a fight mentally and physically prepared. And don't forget...with Eric it wasn't just the wars that cought up to him...it was also the fact that he had to kill himself to make weight in recent years. Barrera is much more comfortable at 130 than Eric has been.

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CC. Good points. IMO you're really not giving Manny enough credit though. Manny has established decent setup jab and a right hook that is just as feared as his straight left. Manny has great footwork and head movement as well. Barrera won't be able to brawl with Manny regardless. MAB doesn't have the physical advantages EM had over Manny in height and reach. Manny is just as capable of landing well placed and timed shots as he is running in with flurries and brawling. That's why I don't see any way MAB can beat Manny. The only chance at MAB beating Manny would come from the possibility that the punishment Manny's taken in fighting Marquez, Morales three times, and Larios, has taken more of an affect on him than we know. I think that Manny just has a good chin like Shane Mosley and can take a punch well.

am i the only one excited about pac's counterpunching?
i mean am i just hyped with that wicked right hook aka the manila ice
or that leaning left jab - yes a left jab from a lefty, that features a 180 turn
as he slide to his opponents left jab... isnt it a move for known by slick fighters?
i thought pac has been counterpunchin a lot and he utilizes that against his opponent's jab
im just starstrucked with pac's unorthodox underrated boxing skills after the larios fight
i maybe crazy but i think he's slick although he got hit alot unlike floyd
well he was against a hall of famer and a legendary warrior..

P.S
and the 1st knockdown of EM was from a left hand counter from pac
adn he threw the punch while back pedalling... and more importantly, it happened at the ropes

more importantly did you see where Morales' right hand was when he got hit. Engaging in an unthoughtful attack like that you're bound to get hit. For me the punch Pac threw was reflexes not so much lets be sneaky and counter punch him.

Ive always had this funny saying about Morales and Barrera.

It goes:

"Morales was a boxer who loved to fight, however Barrera was the fighter who learned to box."

In short, Barrera is far from shot. He's had his wars yes, but he has preserved himself extremley well in these last few years.

He should have a lot left in the tank for the Pac fight... Plus, unlike JMM, Barrera was born with a mean streak.


Do i think he could beat Pac? Yes.
Am i thinking with my heart? Of course!

Am i bothered?

http://www.uktv.co.uk/images/standar.../555680_L1.jpg

Maybe, by stick-and-run style and/or using jab-and-clinch. But not advisable, Pac is too quick for that. Haha! just answered myself. :doh:

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Originally Posted by The Grinch

In short, Barrera is far from shot. He's had his wars yes, but he has preserved himself extremley well in these last few years.

He should have a lot left in the tank for the Pac fight...

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This is where I differ with a lot of people on Barrera. I don't see where he has a lot left in the tank. Against Juarez in the first fight, he looked like an old, tired fighter. He spent the last several rounds just hoping to survive. If that fight was one round longer, he may have been KO'd. In Juarez II, he didn't engage at all, he just jabbed and ran. If Barrera wasn't confident in his ability to trade with someone like Juarez, how will he be able to do it against Pacquiao?

All we can do is hope ;)

You never know, its not like he was in desperate trouble against Juarez.
Perhaps his reasons for being negative against Juarez were mearly based on long term thinking?

All we can do is hope :D

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by The Grinch

In short, Barrera is far from shot. He's had his wars yes, but he has preserved himself extremley well in these last few years.

He should have a lot left in the tank for the Pac fight...

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This is where I differ with a lot of people on Barrera. I don't see where he has a lot left in the tank. Against Juarez in the first fight, he looked like an old, tired fighter. He spent the last several rounds just hoping to survive. If that fight was one round longer, he may have been KO'd. In Juarez II, he didn't engage at all, he just jabbed and ran. If Barrera wasn't confident in his ability to trade with someone like Juarez, how will he be able to do it against Pacquiao?

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Who says he wants to trade with Pac ? The one huge advantage he has over Pac is boxing ability and class so he will fight with his head in this 1 not his heart . The difference in the two Rocky fights is he wasnt as focused in the 1st as he was in teh 2nd and look at teh change it m made .

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by The Grinch

In short, Barrera is far from shot. He's had his wars yes, but he has preserved himself extremley well in these last few years.

He should have a lot left in the tank for the Pac fight...

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This is where I differ with a lot of people on Barrera. I don't see where he has a lot left in the tank. Against Juarez in the first fight, he looked like an old, tired fighter. He spent the last several rounds just hoping to survive. If that fight was one round longer, he may have been KO'd. In Juarez II, he didn't engage at all, he just jabbed and ran. If Barrera wasn't confident in his ability to trade with someone like Juarez, how will he be able to do it against Pacquiao?

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what his fans were pointing out is that he doenst really want to engage with manny. and i think its really true and that is what Barrera should definitely do. But what i doubt is if barrera can contain manny's consistent pressure and if he has really the chin that can last for 12 action packed rounds. his fans were claiming that he wasnt the real barrera when manny knocked him out. I believe its true but i still dont think he can beat manny considering his much noticeable improvements. either manny wins by late round TKO just like the last fight or wins a lopsided decision just like he did to Oscar Larios. i think its possible. and the only way to beat pacquiao is to frustrate him and that is by impying dirty tactics. if he 'intenionally' headbutts him just like what happened on EM-MP1 then its possible. take away pacquiao' game plan and it could be done by bathing him with blood

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by The Grinch

In short, Barrera is far from shot. He's had his wars yes, but he has preserved himself extremley well in these last few years.

He should have a lot left in the tank for the Pac fight...

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This is where I differ with a lot of people on Barrera. I don't see where he has a lot left in the tank. Against Juarez in the first fight, he looked like an old, tired fighter. He spent the last several rounds just hoping to survive. If that fight was one round longer, he may have been KO'd. In Juarez II, he didn't engage at all, he just jabbed and ran. If Barrera wasn't confident in his ability to trade with someone like Juarez, how will he be able to do it against Pacquiao?

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Don't under estimate Juarez's power, that kid can crack ! O0

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Originally Posted by Lords Gym

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by The Grinch

In short, Barrera is far from shot. He's had his wars yes, but he has preserved himself extremley well in these last few years.

He should have a lot left in the tank for the Pac fight...

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This is where I differ with a lot of people on Barrera. I don't see where he has a lot left in the tank. Against Juarez in the first fight, he looked like an old, tired fighter. He spent the last several rounds just hoping to survive. If that fight was one round longer, he may have been KO'd. In Juarez II, he didn't engage at all, he just jabbed and ran. If Barrera wasn't confident in his ability to trade with someone like Juarez, how will he be able to do it against Pacquiao?

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Don't under estimate Juarez's power, that kid can crack ! O0

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Exactly. Juarez is a very strong puncher. While he might not be as dynamic as Manny, i actually think he is more of an accurate puncer...and his punches pack a bang. If anything...I was impressed by how Marco danced and showed his stamina in their second fight and his jab worked beautifully. It's a sign of Barrera's intelligence that he fought the way he did in the second fight. He showed he can adapt and wasn't stupid to just stand their and brawl with a big puncher. It's true...Manny is much more relentless and Marco would be facing his biggest challenge ever. But you can never discount a great champion who has something left in the tank. And i for one think Barrera has something left. Whether that's enough to beat Pac...hopefully we shall see.

Also, don't forget that Marco was preparing to fight Chavez at 135 before Chavez's injury changed things. So Barrera has to suddenly get himself up to fight a young up and comer back at 130. Marco gutted out that first fight against Juarez. He wasn't his best that night and he still toughed it out against a young puncher. If anything it showed me why he is such a great champion.

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Originally Posted by zhubin

Also, don't forget that Marco was preparing to fight Chavez at 135 before Chavez's injury changed things. So Barrera has to suddenly get himself up to fight a young up and comer back at 130. Marco gutted out that first fight against Juarez. He wasn't his best that night and he still toughed it out against a young puncher. If anything it showed me why he is such a great champion.

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Truth be told ! Cool Click ! O0

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by zhubin

Barrera has shown he can either brawl or fight technically. Pac can only fight one way...full steam ahead. If for any reason that fails him he can't revert to another style. Can Barrera keep Manny off of him and box him...maybe/maybe not. As for comparing the wear and tear of Marco and Eric. It's true...Marco isn't a young buck. But he has paced himself and fought smart enough in recent years to still come into a fight mentally and physically prepared. And don't forget...with Eric it wasn't just the wars that cought up to him...it was also the fact that he had to kill himself to make weight in recent years. Barrera is much more comfortable at 130 than Eric has been.

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Since that fight, Barrera has not improved, he has only gotten older and seen his reflexes further deteriorate. On the other hand,

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So im guessing you didn't se barrera V morales 3 then? coz that was after the pac fight and Barrera boxed out of this world. And it wasn't as if he boxed a shot morales either, coz eric went on to beat pac soon after... sound slike your posting other peoples opinions

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Originally Posted by Preme

So im guessing you didn't se barrera V morales 3 then? coz that was after the pac fight and Barrera boxed out of this world. And it wasn't as if he boxed a shot morales either, coz eric went on to beat pac soon after... sound slike your posting other peoples opinions

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No, I don't need to post other people's opinions, I can think for myself just fine.

So you're saying that you feel that Barrera's hand speed, foot speed, stamina and reflexes are just as good if not better than they were three years ago when he was blitzed by Pacquiao? And that the 28-29 year old Barrera would've struggled as badly against Juarez in the first fight as the 32 yr old version did?

Barrera??? Knowing how coward he is.... Pacquaio vs Barrera will not happen due to many reasons.....however, ultimately all reasons will lead to cowardice.

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Originally Posted by rrbong

Barrera??? Knowing how coward he is.... Pacquaio vs Barrera will not happen due to many reasons.....however, ultimately all reasons will lead to cowardice.

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I think JMM vs PACCMAN would be much more entertainin it be a much better fight

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Originally Posted by rrbong

Barrera??? Knowing how coward he is.... Pacquaio vs Barrera will not happen due to many reasons.....however, ultimately all reasons will lead to cowardice.

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Nothing about Barrera emits cowardice. That's ubsurd. He's asking for a rematch...so where does the cowardice come in to play.

It doesn't. ::**

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by rrbong

Barrera??? Knowing how coward he is.... Pacquaio vs Barrera will not happen due to many reasons.....however, ultimately all reasons will lead to cowardice.

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Nothing about Barrera emits cowardice. That's ubsurd. He's asking for a rematch...so where does the cowardice come in to play.

It doesn't. ::**

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Yep, A coward.... Barrera is not, but maybe a fool to believe if he can win against Pac-Man. Or maybe he just wants the money. Pac by Ko win in the 7.

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Originally Posted by TheDukeof74

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by rrbong

Barrera??? Knowing how coward he is.... Pacquaio vs Barrera will not happen due to many reasons.....however, ultimately all reasons will lead to cowardice.

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Nothing about Barrera emits cowardice. That's ubsurd. He's asking for a rematch...so where does the cowardice come in to play.

It doesn't. ::**

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Yep, A coward.... Barrera is not, but maybe a fool to believe if he can win against Pac-Man. Or maybe he just wants the money. Pac by Ko win in the 7.

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Agreed. Honestly...the only person that I really want to see Pacquiao fight again is Marquez.

Marquez has the chin & the countering abilities to give Pac a hard night...that's a given...also Marquez continues to prove that he will get up & gut it out at all costs.

Barrera if he uses the same fight tactics he used against Juares,can beat Pacquiao for 1 or 2 rounds or even 3 rounds.But when Manny starts to catch up on him he will be KO'd.

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Originally Posted by happytrip

Barrera if he uses the same fight tactics he used against Juares,can beat Pacquiao for 1 or 2 rounds or even 3 rounds.But when Manny starts to catch up on him he will be KO'd.

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wtf?!?
i hope you actually mean 'by 1 or 2 rounds or even 3 rounds'
or if im wrong.. maybe you mean he can finish pac in less than 3?
and barrera will even use the lameass tactics he used against juarez
fwock that. what pisses me are the fans who appreciate what barrera did
on that fight while they diss on floyd for fighting baldo the better way.
he fought efficiently by boxing,and check that - complete boxing. while barrera did nothing
but jab, clinch, run, bullshits everyone that anticipated the fight..
its unfair. floyd tried his best to KOed baldo but he just cant.
while barrera did his best to extend his career >:mad

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Originally Posted by the_answer

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Originally Posted by happytrip

Barrera if he uses the same fight tactics he used against Juares,can beat Pacquiao for 1 or 2 rounds or even 3 rounds.But when Manny starts to catch up on him he will be KO'd.

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wtf?!?
i hope you actually mean 'by 1 or 2 rounds or even 3 rounds'
or if im wrong.. maybe you mean he can finish pac in less than 3?
and barrera will even use the lameass tactics he used against juarez
fwock that. what pisses me are the fans who appreciate what barrera did
on that fight while they diss on floyd for fighting baldo the better way.
he fought efficiently by boxing,and check that - complete boxing. while barrera did nothing
but jab, clinch, run, bullshits everyone that anticipated the fight..
its unfair. floyd tried his best to KOed baldo but he just cant.
while barrera did his best to extend his career >:mad

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I mean BARRERA can outpoint PACQUIAO for 1 or 2 or even 3 rounds,but soon enough PACQUIAO will catch up on BARRERA and knock him out.Sorry for the confusion....There is no way for PAC to loss against BARRERA.

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Originally Posted by happytrip

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Originally Posted by the_answer

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Originally Posted by happytrip

Barrera if he uses the same fight tactics he used against Juares,can beat Pacquiao for 1 or 2 rounds or even 3 rounds.But when Manny starts to catch up on him he will be KO'd.

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wtf?!?
i hope you actually mean 'by 1 or 2 rounds or even 3 rounds'
or if im wrong.. maybe you mean he can finish pac in less than 3?
and barrera will even use the lameass tactics he used against juarez
fwock that. what pisses me are the fans who appreciate what barrera did
on that fight while they diss on floyd for fighting baldo the better way.
he fought efficiently by boxing,and check that - complete boxing. while barrera did nothing
but jab, clinch, run, bullshits everyone that anticipated the fight..
its unfair. floyd tried his best to KOed baldo but he just cant.
while barrera did his best to extend his career >:mad

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I mean BARRERA can outpoint PACQUIAO for 1 or 2 or even 3 rounds,but soon enough PACQUIAO will catch up on BARRERA and knock him out.Sorry for the confusion....There is no way for PAC to loss against BARRERA.

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actually.. i think there is a way
it just came to my mind after reading in another thread
that if he can make headbutts look 'unintenional' that would
certainly frustrate pac. what more annoying than an obvious cheating?
he'll keep on complaining about it and that would take away his
concentration and you know what happens to an unfocused pac
in the lower weights MAB is the master of mind games
like ali he wants to get in his opponents head
this is his only chance. but i doubt it considering pac has that big 'mental' edge
after he beat barrera badly.. wheter he likes it or not MAB will be intimidated

Here's my final point on Barrera-Pacquiao.
There are certain golden rules or rules of thumb that are almost always effective ways to predict the result of rematches.

When a fighter wins by KO in the first fight, and that fighter is younger, faster, and the harder puncher, that fighter will win the rematch, and win in easier fashion that he did the first time.

When a fighter loses the first fight by KO and is able to comeback and pull off a victory in the second fight, it's generally because he made a huge mistake in the first fight and learned his lesson.
For example, a guy with better speed who foolishly chooses to brawl in the first fight but boxes smartly in the rematch.
In this specific matchup, Barrera doesn't hold any physical advantages. He is not younger, he is not faster, and he is not the hardest puncher. And you can add a whole other layer on top of this, in that Pacquiao also has the mental edge, as he knows he knocked Barrera out the first time.

Asking Barrera to overcome an age deficit, speed defecit, and power defecit at the age of 33 is an almost insurmountable challenge. You never say never in sports, but IMO it would take Pacquiao beating himself for Barrera to have a chance.

Barrera's lack of urgency to push for the rematch leads me to believe he knows deep down inside that he'll never be able to beat Pac man, just as Prince stayed clear of Barrera after their fight. If he doesn't believe it, it can't happen.

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Originally Posted by CompulsiveSadClicker

Barrera's lack of urgency to push for the rematch leads me to believe he knows deep down inside that he'll never be able to beat Pac man, just as Prince stayed clear of Barrera after their fight. If he doesn't believe it, it can't happen.

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Maybe Barrera's lack of urgency in pushing for an immediate rematch highlights a certain maturity in his approach to the fight game. He has had a chance to build up his confidence, build up some results and focus on the boxing skills he will need. Now is perhaps as good a time as any to go for a rematch...

only pac can beat pac its that simple...nobody has and edge on him on anything...you can say boxing countering...those are increasing in pacs abbility...pac destroyed master ladwaba he took master counter jmm to hell...he made both em and mab look old in a day...and pac is still improving...the next pac is always better then the last pac...he improves rapidly so once in the ring with him all game plans any fighter have coming in won't work...his simply to much for anyone...power speed and awesome punch resistance...and outstanding stamina...

only pac can beat pac...the ring is his yard anyone in there with him is gonna get dominated...

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Originally Posted by CompulsiveSadClicker

Barrera's lack of urgency to push for the rematch leads me to believe he knows deep down inside that he'll never be able to beat Pac man, just as Prince stayed clear of Barrera after their fight. If he doesn't believe it, it can't happen.

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what the fwocked happened to your previous posts?!?!
hahaha... you aint the compulsiveSadClicker anymore

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Originally Posted by the_answer

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Originally Posted by CompulsiveSadClicker

Barrera's lack of urgency to push for the rematch leads me to believe he knows deep down inside that he'll never be able to beat Pac man, just as Prince stayed clear of Barrera after their fight. If he doesn't believe it, it can't happen.

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what the fwocked happened to your previous posts?!?!
hahaha... you aint the compulsiveSadClicker anymore

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complusiveSadClicker knows that Barrera is not really sincere in his offer to fight Pacquaio. He is too concerned of his status and will never fight Pacquaio. He fears Pacquaio will totally destroy what he has left ----- his large ego.

lol it's crazy how carried away people are getting over pac he is great yes.. but fook me he is far from unbeatable

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Originally Posted by rrbong

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Originally Posted by the_answer

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Originally Posted by CompulsiveSadClicker

Barrera's lack of urgency to push for the rematch leads me to believe he knows deep down inside that he'll never be able to beat Pac man, just as Prince stayed clear of Barrera after their fight. If he doesn't believe it, it can't happen.

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what the fwocked happened to your previous posts?!?!
hahaha... you aint the compulsiveSadClicker anymore

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complusiveSadClicker knows that Barrera is not really sincere in his offer to fight Pacquaio. He is too concerned of his status and will never fight Pacquaio. He fears Pacquaio will totally destroy what he has left ----- his large ego.

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THe funny thing is that neither one of you or even thre promoters know what the fwock is up...so just chill wiht the hate & wait it out. We will see Pac Barrera II...& soon. By the end of 2007 I think.

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Originally Posted by Preme

lol it's crazy how carried away people are getting over pac he is great yes.. but fook me he is far from unbeatable

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yes Pacquaio can be beaten. Everybody in boxing can be beaten. Any boxer who is out of his prime can be beaten. But right now, Pacquaio is the hardest to beat among the superfeatherweights.

no barrera wont' be able to beat pac right now.....but damn it would be still a great fight to watch because barrera can brawl but just not the power to hurt pac.

Hope not....I can't stand Barrera.