Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Cotto would destroy Hatton at 147 (unless it was in Manchester). Look, Hatton is great at 140, although I think Castillo will take him out. This fact remains though, Cotto is naturally bigger he is more comfortable at 147, I don't think Hatton can carry the extra weight well, although I doubt he will come back up ever so we will never know. The only reason for Hatton to move back up should be to give Collazo a rematch.

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Hatton will have to move back up eventually. The way that guy balloons in weight between fights will eventually make it hard for him to make 140. There's no way you can keep going from 180 to 140 without it having an adverse effect on your body. Hatton will never move back up, the day he can't make 140 will be probably be the day he retires. But if he did fight Cotto, good lord, that would be a brutal body punchfest. I'd come out from watching that fight pissing out blood.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Based on there last fights. Cotto has Hatton in a hospital by the 3rd round

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LMAO,Hatton is a tough tough guy,surely you think he would last longer? He was able to take Tszyu's shots? (WTF am I semi defending Ricky?! ??? ;D) Hatton also maintains a relentless pace and has good bodyshots,my ONLY worry would be whether the pace would be too much for Cotto? That's the only Q I have left for my boy.

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Your asking about 147 not 140. Cotto can keep the pace cuz he won't be drained from making weight like he was at 140. And there's a reason Hatton put his tail between his legs and ran like a bitch back to 140. He can't handle the big boys at 147. Did you see the fights last night? Cotto looked like a F****** middleweight. He'll destroy Hatton at 147.

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i agree. Cotto is a beast at 147. I would like to see him fight Margarito over Hatton because i dont think the Hit Man could stand up to MC at this weight. He would become the "Get-Hit Man" and would probably get KOed in the later rounds, Im thinkin around 9 or 10.

Cotto gets hit a lot when he's not trying to box, most of his trouble at 140 was due to #1 being weight drained and having to fight in spurts and #2 he didn't respect ANYONES power at 140 except for Muhamed Abdullaev whom he boxed more.

Ricky Hatton gets nailed pretty often as well he also gets cut. He hasn't really had trouble with anyone at 140 due to his style, he wrestles and goes to the body

When you check their resumes Cotto and Hatton have some over the hill guys on their records but only Cotto has the rising young guns on his record. Hatton has Tszyu and I think that evens everything out. Sure it's a toss up fight but I tend to side with Cotto. Miguel is younger, bigger, and I think his body attack has a little more power behind it. Also if Cotto has the ability to switch his stance then Ricky would be in even more trouble.

I like Hatton, I would LOVE this fight to happen but I think Cotto would win.

Hatton is still very good though, I make no judgements on his going down to 140...you fight where you are comfortable. I think Collazo was a HORRIBLE choice of opponents to start with though

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Cotto gets hit a lot when he's not trying to box, most of his trouble at 140 was due to #1 being weight drained and having to fight in spurts and #2 he didn't respect ANYONES power at 140 except for Muhamed Abdullaev whom he boxed more.

Ricky Hatton gets nailed pretty often as well he also gets cut. He hasn't really had trouble with anyone at 140 due to his style, he wrestles and goes to the body

When you check their resumes Cotto and Hatton have some over the hill guys on their records but only Cotto has the rising young guns on his record. Hatton has Tszyu and I think that evens everything out. Sure it's a toss up fight but I tend to side with Cotto. Miguel is younger, bigger, and I think his body attack has a little more power behind it. Also if Cotto has the ability to switch his stance then Ricky would be in even more trouble.

I like Hatton, I would LOVE this fight to happen but I think Cotto would win.

Hatton is still very good though, I make no judgements on his going down to 140...you fight where you are comfortable. I think Collazo was a HORRIBLE choice of opponents to start with though

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Have a :coolclick: Lyle, a very fair and carefully measured analysis

Yep, that just about sums my opinion up too.

Good posting ;)

However, if the fight was at 140, its a whole different argument ::**

He's only beat Quintana.

Last time I looked Quintana wasn't on any P4P lists so lets get a bit of perspective here.

He looked classy but we all knew that anyway.

Bottom line is that you can't draw anything from this fight that we didn't already know about Miguel.

So, as for Hatton v Cotto goes for me it's still Hatton all the way.

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Originally Posted by Steelie

He's only beat Quintana.

Last time I looked Quintana wasn't on any P4P lists so lets get a bit of perspective here.

He looked classy but we all knew that anyway.

Bottom line is that you can't draw anything from this fight that we didn't already know about Miguel.

So, as for Hatton v Cotto goes for me it's still Hatton all the way.

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I think you need to look up Cotto's resume....you either are a HUGE Hatton nut hugger and refuse to acknowledge Cotto's achievements or just plain out don't know much about Cotto's opponents,nearly all of whom have been good.


Hous I would debate with you but I have no idea what you are talking about...the amount Hatton balloons up,he should be fighting at 147 anyway!

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Cotto would destroy Hatton at 147 (unless it was in Manchester). Look, Hatton is great at 140, although I think Castillo will take him out. This fact remains though, Cotto is naturally bigger he is more comfortable at 147, I don't think Hatton can carry the extra weight well, although I doubt he will come back up ever so we will never know. The only reason for Hatton to move back up should be to give Collazo a rematch.

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Exactly my sentiments....people can go on about not giving Collazo a rematch but as much as I dislike PBF,he had the balls to give Catillo a rematch,a rematch that he did not have to give and did not get him much $$$ but he did it to prove he could beat the man and I'm SURE Collazo v Hatton would be more of an attraction than Hatton and Urango ;) ??? ::**

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I think you need to look up Cotto's resume....you either are a HUGE Hatton nut hugger and refuse to acknowledge Cotto's achievements or just plain out don't know much about Cotto's opponents,nearly all of whom have been good.

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I think you need to be honest about Cottos resume ;)

Care to pick any particular opponent that stands out?

Sorry being a Brit and all that Jazz.....but Cotto stops our Ricky around the 8th.

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Originally Posted by Steelie

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I think you need to look up Cotto's resume....you either are a HUGE Hatton nut hugger and refuse to acknowledge Cotto's achievements or just plain out don't know much about Cotto's opponents,nearly all of whom have been good.

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I think you need to be honest about Cottos resume ;)

Care to pick any particular opponent that stands out?

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Until Hatton can prove he is even remotely a force at 147 there is no need to go into resumes but since you want to go there,
Carlos Quintana knocked out Edwin Cassiani.
Edwin Cassiani TKO'ed Luis Collazo.
Miguel Cotto destroyed Carlos Quintana.

Hatton got a gift at 147 vs Luis Collazo and then ran back down to 140.
Some one mentioned that PBF gave Castillo a rematch to prove Castillos win was either a fluke or that indeed PBF was injured. Credit PBF for doing the right thing.
Hatton should have done the same thing and proved himself again against Luis Collazo.

Cotto vs Hatton @ 140? It could go either way and I would put my money on Cotto.
Cotto vs Hatton @ 147? I would bet the house on Cotto.

I am by no means trying to knock Hatton. His win over Kostya Tszyu will forever be remembered. Hatton at 140 is a monster and I will leave it at that.

i think its mad how you boys are judging the outcome of a fight with these two at welter when they've both only faught there once. if you ask me me hatton is still too busy for cotto. definately at light welter and if hatton had enough time to grow into welter, then there aswell. cotto likes his breathers and hatton wouldnt let him have any. hatton looked beatable against collazo but cotto has looked beatable against demarcus corley, torres, and mallingi. especially torres who went after cotto untill he got knackared. hatton wouldnt!

Problem is Hatton didnt seem too "busy" in his last fight.

grinch mate i've said that mate. hatton did lookk beatable in his last fight. but cotto has looked beatable in a few fights. at least hatton came back strong in the second half of the colazo fight even though he didnt know what he was doin. the point is hatton had an off night in a fight he wasnt properly prepared for and didnt belong at, and its about time people stopped using it against him. when ricky is on the ball he is still too busy for cotto i reckon. but he will have to take some bombs and maybe get off the canvas to beat cotto, but he's got the heart and determination to do it.

We are going off of one fight at 147 for each fighter and against a different style of opposition for each fighter....

Going off of that then I think its a pretty even fight. Hatton has the edge in sheer work rate though, might be enough to clinch it. Probably goes to the score cards.

Wasnt they both slick southpaws?

Im just askin.

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Originally Posted by The Grinch

Wasnt they both slick southpaws?

Im just askin.

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They have the same style??

Collazo may very well turn out to be a very underrated fighter :-\

Please... Call me Jim ;)



Im just askin..

Collazo and Quintana (Not seen him fight)... Arent they simillar?

I was always given the impression (not directly) that they were? minus a bit of power of Collazo's part.

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Originally Posted by The Grinch

Please... Call me Jim ;)



Im just askin..

Collazo and Quintana (Not seen him fight)... Arent they simillar?

I was always given the impression (not directly) that they were? minus a bit of power of Collazo's part.

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I suppose parallels can be drawn, but I see them as being very different fighters. At the end of the day styles makes fights. Cotto: Hatton would be very different to any Hatton: Collazo or Quintana: Cotto...

Thats the fundamental distinction to be made...

Oh i see.. Yeah i agree on that no doubt.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by The Grinch

Please... Call me Jim ;)



Im just askin..

Collazo and Quintana (Not seen him fight)... Arent they simillar?

I was always given the impression (not directly) that they were? minus a bit of power of Collazo's part.

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I suppose parallels can be drawn, but I see them as being very different fighters. At the end of the day styles makes fights. Cotto: Hatton would be very different to any Hatton: Collazo or Quintana: Cotto...

Thats the fundamental distinction to be made...

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And Ive called you Jim!! You happy now, Mr Grinchy Grinch! :coolclick: ;D :P

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Originally Posted by The Grinch

Oh i see.. Yeah i agree on that no doubt.

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Having read back over my original posting, you are right to have challenged my perspective...It was vague and not at all well articulated and came off all wrong...

Mr. Miles, redemtion wont stop you from scoring a C- on this debate ^-^

;D :coolclick:

As far as resumes I think Hatton's is still better but Cotto's probably catching up.

I do think Cotto is improving more while Hatton's kind of peaked. And at 147 I would favor Cotto, he's got a better style to beat Ricky than KT did, he doesn't have to have a lot of room to punch.

But lets face it, its what have you done for me lately. That's just the way it is. Cotto was a glass chinned loss waiting to happen after Corley and Torres and now he's on top of the world. Hatton was on top and has levelled off. But what if Hatton beats up Castillo in two fights, doubt it will happen if it does but who knows. Then he's right back on top and a lot of picks on this fight would probably change.

Which leads me to my next question..

What is everyones opinion on Castillo at 140?

Is it more Duran than Dela Hoya?

You know what i mean?

Me personally, im just not sure. He is getting on a bit.

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Originally Posted by The Grinch

Mr. Miles, redemtion wont stop you from scoring a C- on this debate ^-^

;D :coolclick:

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Hahahaha ;D

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Originally Posted by The Grinch

Which leads me to my next question..

What is everyones opinion on Castillo at 140?

Is it more Duran than Dela Hoya?

You know what i mean?

Me personally, im just not sure. He is getting on a bit.

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After a slow start, I am now approaching B+ status ;D

Castillo is indeed getting on, maybe not in years but in terms of trying to burn off weight, number of fights and now going up like he is.....I really think he is probably beyond his best.The Hatton camp wants him for a reason....they know Hatton will knock him about....

Will be fun, but it will be the end of Castillo....

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

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Originally Posted by Steelie

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I think you need to look up Cotto's resume....you either are a HUGE Hatton nut hugger and refuse to acknowledge Cotto's achievements or just plain out don't know much about Cotto's opponents,nearly all of whom have been good.

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I think you need to be honest about Cottos resume ;)

Care to pick any particular opponent that stands out?

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Until Hatton can prove he is even remotely a force at 147 there is no need to go into resumes but since you want to go there,
Carlos Quintana knocked out Edwin Cassiani.
Edwin Cassiani TKO'ed Luis Collazo.
Miguel Cotto destroyed Carlos Quintana.

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I'm not trying to compare resumes...I'm happy to conceed that Hatton has had his fair share of less than stellar opposition.

I'm highlighting that Quintana is hardly a step up and that if your prepared to take your Cotto tinted spectacles off for a minute, you'll see that Cotto still aint mixed it with true world class.

Oh, and for the record, it wasn't me that referred to his pedigree. But since it's been brought up lets look at his record a bit more closely...

Just who has he beat?

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Originally Posted by Steelie

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

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Originally Posted by Steelie

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I think you need to look up Cotto's resume....you either are a HUGE Hatton nut hugger and refuse to acknowledge Cotto's achievements or just plain out don't know much about Cotto's opponents,nearly all of whom have been good.

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I think you need to be honest about Cottos resume ;)

Care to pick any particular opponent that stands out?

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Until Hatton can prove he is even remotely a force at 147 there is no need to go into resumes but since you want to go there,
Carlos Quintana knocked out Edwin Cassiani.
Edwin Cassiani TKO'ed Luis Collazo.
Miguel Cotto destroyed Carlos Quintana.

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I'm not trying to compare resumes...I'm happy to conceed that Hatton has had his fair share of less than stellar opposition.

I'm highlighting that Quintana is hardly a step up and that if your prepared to take your Cotto tinted spectacles off for a minute, you'll see that Cotto still aint mixed it with true world class.

Oh, and for the record, it wasn't me that referred to his pedigree. But since it's been brought up lets look at his record a bit more closely...

Just who has he beat?

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Cotto has beat 5 undefeated fighters.

Recently

Carlos Quintana - (Undefeated) has absolutely demolished everyone that has faced him (until Cotto of course), would have probably been a bigger force in the WW division if didn't have that injury. He still has a future.

Paul Malignaggi - (Undefeated) didn't fight the best competition, but he has the fastest hands at Light Welter, he also definately proved he had heart against Cotto, also an up and comer with a future

Gianluca Branco - (1 loss on his record) very very tough never been knocked down, many people said he was invincible, and then Cotto broke his jaw.

Ricardo Torres - (Undefeated) incredible puncher loads of power, young up and comer really tested Cotto's chin

Kelson Pinto - (Undefeated) good boxer had some decent power, Cotto blasted him into obscurity.

Carlos Maussa - (Undefeated) Cotto was the first to give him an 'L' and still did it the quickest.

Quintana as a welcome mat to the 147 division is just as tough as Luis Collazo!

It's not that he's the best at welterweight but Cotto demolished him with ease and that is impressive when considering how tough Hatton had it vs Collazo.

When you think about records and resumes think about this Ricky is 28 and Miguel is 26 if Ricky retires soon then I think it's easy for Cotto to be considered better all-time.

Ricky hasn't made any progress in getting "the big fight" that defines his career...the Tszyu fight is his best right now but he can do better

Miguel has successfully moved up in weight where he is free to chase after ANYONE he wants to.



This really is the best for both boxers, Hatton is free to fight: Harris, Witter, Corrales, Castillo, Hopkins, Holt, Daws, Urango etc

and Cotto is free to fight: Mayweather Jr. (unlikely), Margarito, Clottey, Judah, Mosley (unlikely), De la Hoya (unlikely), Baldomir, Williams, Gatti, etc

I think it would have been a hell of a fight though

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Recently

Carlos Quintana - Burst Julio's bubble but thats it.

Paul Malignaggi - Never fought anyone any good.

Gianluca Branco - Got outboxed by Arturo Gatti...............nuff said

Ricardo Torres - Gave a good account of himself but if all but one of his opponants posted on saddos they would be greated with "Who are you?"

Kelson Pinto - Did a runner from Hatton. Official line was fever or sumink? Im sure I heard that he had to rush home to be with his pregnant wife?

Carlos Maussa - Bless him.

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;D Just calling it as I see it.

How is Quintano as tough as Collazo?

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Originally Posted by Memphis

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Recently

Carlos Quintana - Burst Julio's bubble but thats it.

Paul Malignaggi - Never fought anyone any good.

Gianluca Branco - Got outboxed by Arturo Gatti...............nuff said

Ricardo Torres - Gave a good account of himself but if all but one of his opponants posted on saddos they would be greated with "Who are you?"

Kelson Pinto - Did a runner from Hatton. Official line was fever or sumink? Im sure I heard that he had to rush home to be with his pregnant wife?

Carlos Maussa - Bless him.

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;D Just calling it as I see it.

How is Quintano as tough as Collazo?

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Well Collazo got blown out by Cassiani in 3 rounds. Then Quintana Retired Cassiani in 3 rounds, the only common denominator.

I dont have to point out to you how flawed that logic is do I?

Your right it is the only thing they have in common. If only Quintano had won and defended a world title there would be more to go on ;D

;)

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Originally Posted by Memphis

I dont have to point out to you how flawed that logic is do I?

Your right it is the only thing they have in common. If only Quintano had won and defended a world title there would be more to go on ;D

;)

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So you measure toughness by having an alphabet belt? I would say your logic is flawed.

;D

No but at least it is something. Its better than saying he is tougher because he is the guy Miguel is fighting, right?

If the roles were reversed would you be praising Hatton for taking on the tougher challenge? I dont think so.

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Originally Posted by Memphis

;D

No but at least it is something. Its better than saying he is tougher because he is the guy Miguel is fighting, right?

If the roles were reversed would you be praising Hatton for taking on the tougher challenge? I dont think so.

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I would respect Ricky for taking on a tougher challenge, when he takes on Castillo I will give him all the credit in the world. All in all, I'm not really sure what point that you are trying to make. Exactly what is your point?
Cotto is only 26 and very young in his career what other 26 has even the resume of Cotto?

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Memphis

;D

No but at least it is something. Its better than saying he is tougher because he is the guy Miguel is fighting, right?

If the roles were reversed would you be praising Hatton for taking on the tougher challenge? I dont think so.

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I would respect Ricky for taking on a tougher challenge, when he takes on Castillo I will give him all the credit in the world. All in all, I'm not really sure what point that you are trying to make. Exactly what is your point?
Cotto is only 26 and very young in his career what other 26 has even the resume of Cotto?

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CC KS,well made points all throughout the thread..

Oumafan,you know you're 1 of my fave posters but I don't see how,overall,Hatton's resume is better than Cotto;s? I guess if you prefer 1 big name then fair enough but I think Cotto has fought the higher level of competition

(Knew this would be a good thread!)

Killersheep you've confused yourself now ;D

My comment was directed at Lyle, have a cool click for picking up the baton in his absense ;)

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Memphis

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Recently

Carlos Quintana - Burst Julio's bubble but thats it.

Paul Malignaggi - Never fought anyone any good.

Gianluca Branco - Got outboxed by Arturo Gatti...............nuff said

Ricardo Torres - Gave a good account of himself but if all but one of his opponants posted on saddos they would be greated with "Who are you?"

Kelson Pinto - Did a runner from Hatton. Official line was fever or sumink? Im sure I heard that he had to rush home to be with his pregnant wife?

Carlos Maussa - Bless him.

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;D Just calling it as I see it.

How is Quintano as tough as Collazo?

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Well Collazo got blown out by Cassiani in 3 rounds. Then Quintana Retired Cassiani in 3 rounds, the only common denominator.

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For all i appreciate where ya coming from in naming common fighters, to be fair thats all bull.

You can look at alot of fighter's over the years, look back on resume's and see common denomitors that make the argument a mockery.

Ex; ODLH loses to Mosely twice. Mosely loses to Forrest twice. Forrest gets his ass handed to him by Mayorga. Then Oscar whoops Mayorga's ass. See where im coming from ;)


As i mentioned earlier in the thread, Cotto beats Ricky at Welter IMO. Cotto is now fighting at his natural weight, and to be fair he looks big at the weight. Ricky's optimum weight is LWW, end of.

Regardless of what anyone else thinks here the best name on Cottos resume is Paulie Malignaggi who didnt even fight Malignaggis fight because he felt the rinf was too small. Not Cottos fault but it does take abit away from his victory especially since Malignaggi is a featherfisted technitian, not a predatory brawler as he was against Cotto and still troubled him deeply.

Hatton beats Cotto and looks good doing it. Hatton has the style to beat Cotto.

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Originally Posted by Memphis

Killersheep you've confused yourself now ;D

My comment was directed at Lyle, have a cool click for picking up the baton in his absense ;)

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If nothing else, I can't very well let the argument die right? ;)

CC back bro.