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I agree with you to some degree there. Its not the system that makes it effective but the person and instructor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
A system is only as good as the person employing it. What it does give you though is attributes.
In all honesty,I rarely, if ever watch Lee's moviesQuote:
Originally Posted by Munky
I have a very low John Saxon tolerance ;D
;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Awww come on TM. Don't kid me. I bet you've sat there and smacked one of your students on the head and said little gems like
"Its like a finger...pointing away to da howizon"
and
"Don't concetwate on da finger or you will lose all da heavenly glorwy"
;)
Ok Ill confess,my teacher in Ed Parker used to love the line of "Bricks dont hit back" but I dont hold it against him ;D
Maybe Ill go watch that cinematic John Saxon tour de force "Mitchell" ;)
Actually the MST3K version is really funny
bruce lee weigh 135 pounds
i dont know if i want to see 135 mma fighters but there are so against others 135 he'll winn
against faber at 145 he get cut against his eyebrow
Trust me Bruce's credentials are real and legit..... Bruce didnt train for sport he trained for life, he was ever expanding on his MA knowledge and always kept an open mind about other styles and their practicality... So yea with rules who knows how he would of done... On no rules and a fight to the death, I would put my money on Bruce up against any MMA fighter in the world... He was very prolific with weapons and very smart... Like lords elluded to... Bruce allowed to break knees use joint destructions etc. would be dangerous to anyone.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy D
Dont believe everything you read...... I have studied and practiced JKD off an on for about 10 years now.... His Original proteges Larry Hartsells and Dan Inosanto are 2 of the most highly respected and dangerous Martial Artist in the world today and are still dispenseing Bruce's knowledge. So that should tell you something ;)
Oh really Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Do you know the mechanics of a punch? thats no ordinary punch. Like Monkey said his arms and shoulders are fully extended and he is only punching with the torque of his wrist...
Ice try this, Extent your arm all the way out, extend your index finger, now walk up to a mates arm, wall, or punching bag.. Then draw back your finger with your arm still fully extended and only punch using a flick of your wrist..... THATS WHAT BRUCE IS DOING.... trust me after 10 years of practice it aint as easy as it looks. The quickness, snap and torque generated is mind boggling  ;) 
I agree with the consensus supporting Lee and his legitimacy.
First of all, the videos are from the 60's, so while the quality isn't great there isn't any doctoring. Its not an impossible move(its still demonstrated by different black belts), but its still a nice feat and it certainly DOES NOT merit any discredating. I don't see how mastering a move thats doable means the fighter is illegitimate.
Anyways, if there was a super featherweight division in UFC, and Bruce Lee was in his prime in today's genre of training, he would PWN. Its insulting to his legacy to think otherwise. Jeet Kun Do was what most believe the first form of MMA. He had it figured out in 1965, 38 years before any UFC.
he pushed him
Uh I dont think so Tim... Trust thats as legit as a heart attackQuote:
Originally Posted by mnmc10
ok lets just say he didn't push him...so what...the one inch punch is a gimmick...it isn't an applicable technique in a real combat sport, if it was then combat sport participants of all disciplines would all work on the technique....I dont see world class boxers knocking guys out from one inch..everyone knows that punching power starts in the feet through the hips and so on....I'm finding a JKD dojo and getting someone to hit me with the one inch punch...I gotta feel the POWER :D
Hahahaha! Van me boy....... It is totally applicable and if utilized at the proper distance, is vey explosive......I'm right handed but I take a right hand lead(southpaw) my lead hand is my strongest, the way were taught to throw is to think of your arm as a whip, keep your arms up and nice and relaxed, when your punch is thrown and close to full extension you snap your wrist at the end and do the one inch punch..... Trust me it makes abig difference you can feel and hear it on the pads it also gets you in the good habit of bringing you hands back up for defense after a punch since it feels natural to do so.....Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Try it...
The 1 inch punch isn't there to knock anyone out. It isn't supposed to prove that he can knock out a person 1 inch from his face. Its there to show proper jab technique and snap using only the arm, and how effective it is when properly done. Its not a 'gimmick', its a demonstration, geez.
Anyone who's taken traditional martial arts classes knows that a lot of the beginning stuff learned isn't going to be used in real combat, as well as some of the more advanced moves. You won't see guys tornado kicking each other in a UFC match, but that doesn't take away any skill it took to do it.
I don't really understand why Bruce Lee's 1 inch punch demonstration has made all these Lee haters out of everyone. It's not fair to his legacy and its pretty unrealistic to put everything Lee has done aside due to a 5 second clip of a demonstration he did.
you know just b/c I respect your posting I would try it, but in my last fight I hyperextended my elbow and had a small tear in my rotator cuff in the same arm. Both injuries have healed other than some nasty tendonitis in my elbow, but my range of motion has been decreased and I just can't get much pop anymore from my punches in my right arm. So I pretty much just do submission grappling now. I occasionally do some light sparring with my soldiers, but my fighting career is pretty much done. Not that 5-3 in unsanctioned MMA fights is much of a career. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Hey man thats still pretty cool, and I'm sure you'd never take it back would ya? You say soldiers do you serve in the militairy? My brother is a Marine stationed in Camp Lejuene and he's 1 belt away from the highest MCMAP rank. He was at Miramar for the Fight Night with Diego Sanchez and Joe Riggs too, he plans on competeing if his new orders don't send him to Iraq.Quote:
So I pretty much just do submission grappling now. I occasionally do some light sparring with my soldiers, but my fighting career is pretty much done. Not that 5-3 in unsanctioned MMA fights is much of a career.
I'm in the United States Army (Infantry)...The Army has "Army Combatives" which is essentially a watered down MMA training....I believe the Marine's program is very similar. I enjoyed competing, but the reality is the Army doesn't look fondly upon unsanctioned fighting...hell they really dont like us competing in sanctioned events, but I was using the fights to find out where I stood...so its probably best that I dont fight anymore...Hard to explain to your platoon sergeant that you can't deploy b/c you broke you arm in a fight ;D Best of luck to your brother
And if that level of power can be delivered at that range,fully extended,just imagine what a fighter with that level of mastery of technique would do at full coilQuote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
You do JKD huh?
I allways wanted to see how similar it was to Ed Parker Ken-Po,Ed and Bruce worked together alot,and I know Ed had very similar ideas to alot of what Bruce was working on
Yep, Larry Hartsells was a student of Ed Parker as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
I used to do Ed Parker,Ive allways liked the concept behind it,that when you start you need to defend yourself,so its all hard shots,then as you progress it moves over to Kung Fu with the idea that at this point you should be able to defend by redirection
I also like that except for the basic precepts,its very fluid,so teachers have the leeway to provide a more unique experience,rather then being stuck in a dogmatic,rote and note situation
WoW :o CC!!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy D
Nevertheless, sounds like everybody, including Jack Man Wong, respects Bruce Lee.
(For those people who are slow... respect doesn't equal love)
Yeah I got around to reading that too. It puts the supposed fight into odd perspective. While I agree with them that Bruce Lee's wife most likely embellished the story, its hard to take in everything in his account to be true.
If I lost a fight only seen by a dozen people and my famous opponent died I would probably claim otherwise too. What I didn't quite believe is Lee eye gouging and attacking the throat and the low blows. Reading all his work he seems a man with more integrity than that.
Even if Lee was alive it would still be one man's word against anothers. With Lee dead I don't think anyone should treat it any differently than what it has been all these years - a mysterious fight of unknown truths and outcomes.
Yeah but this Jack Man Wong guys is the one who complained about the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate17
If you get two fighters, and interview them after they fought.
One brags about winning. The other talks about how the other fought dirty.
Most likely the braggart won. haha
For starters, I was always a HUGE Lee fan and loved to read all I could about him and more importantly, JKD. For starters, the "art" of JKD is a joke...it IS MMA. Use only what really works, and damn the rest. That is what MMA has become today, simply in a sport situation. Bruce's real life tactics are everyday self defense stuff... Kick the balls, poke the eyes, get the fuck out. Grab a blunt object, strike with it, get the fuck out.
His training methods were nothing special either. Jump rope, do push ups, sit ups and dips. All bodyweight exercises that boxers emphasize today.
He was in INSANE athlete, nobody can deny that, with excellent speed and some good martial arts skills. He had a lot of very interesting ideas, and some questionable (leading with the strong hand, for example, is questionable to me...it has its merit, but it doesn't suit my style).
He also had a lot of gimmicks: The one inch punch. He described his process, as best as i can remember, as simply showing how much force a properly thrown punch can have in only the space of an inch. Shoulder snaps forward, arm snaps forward, wrist snaps up to hit with the bottom three knuckles(WC punches being thrown vertically, rather than horizontally like a traditional punch). Also, his one finger push up. Every bit as gimmicky as the one arm push up...hard, yes, but not really that difficult if you know the proper technique.
However, he was a HELL of a trash talker, always was. Almost like an Ali. That was never in doubt.
Long story short, everybody here is saying "you cant believe everything you read" about my article, but at the same time, believe everything that Lee's wife has ever written about him. What does she gain from telling the truth, when she can overembellish everything and have noone around to deny it?
I tend to believe the people that were close to him and still carry on his teachings ;)..... Are you a JKD practioner? If not I suggest you dont call someones hardwork(Myself included) a "Joke" Trust me I've trained MMA and JKD is a great foundation for MMA..... But believe me bud I'll put my JKD skills to the test in an anything goes street fight compared to someone who just has a strictly MMA background...... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy D
Completely untrue. This from my last post.Quote:
Long story short, everybody here is saying "you cant believe everything you read" about my article, but at the same time, believe everything that Lee's wife has ever written about him.
I believe both sides twisted it to their advantage. Lee's wife probably more so, I honestly don't take most of her stuff seriously, her story sounds like a badly written action script.Quote:
While I agree with them that Bruce Lee's wife most likely embellished the story, its hard to take in everything in his account to be true.
However, I don't think that an article written by a STUDENT of Sifu Wong should be considered an absolute truth. It sounds like humble advertising of their school.
Either way it doesn't matter. No matter what documentation anyone can show on this thread its just a matter of he said she said, nothing more. I'm not taking a side on the fight unless someone shows me a video of the whole thing. Doing so won't prove anything but where your loyalties lie on the matter.
Nate, you're pretty much in the same boat as me, and as such, my comments arent directed towards you.
JT, don't take it too personally. I think you misunderstood what I said. For starters, Lee himself said JKD wasn't a style of martial arts, it's a theory. How can you practice a theory like that? Simply use what works, and don't use what doesn't. JKD is going to be different for every person. If I can punch through a steel wall, and you can kick faster than I can blink, I think "what works" is going to be different for us. This isn't to say what you learned isn't efficient or effective, but it isn't JKD...it's the art of fighting like Bruce Lee (i.e. essentially Wing Chun and Boxing with some Gung Fu....which is, as I said, mixed martial arts).
Wonder why my comments been ignored. :(
In regards to the link posted about the fight.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Because while he felt his life was threatened, he felt confident that he was adequately competent to fend off Lee without resorting to killing him.
Like I said, I dont agree with him 100%, but people need to realize that Bruce Lee's side isn't the be-all-end-all.
EDITED to fix the "is the be..." to "isn't..." woops :P
I don't fully believe in Linda. But you missed what some where really saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy D
Jack Man Wong says that his life was in Jeopardy right? He was fighting for his life? His life is threatened and he still won't use any kicks? ??? Something's wrong with that one too. There's a difference between, sparring, fighting, and fighting for your life.... and you fight at 100% in all but one of those catagories. Hey... maybe even Wong doesn't have killer instinct, as some boxers don't have. .... It just sounds wrong what he says. ... It sounds like an excuse.
When it comes to personal accounts of history, EVERYBODY is different. You just have to piece things together to try to get to the truth. Well...... I know you know this, but... Wong is also held to this standard to IMO.
yea, i gotta agree with u on this oneQuote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
i got a feeling that bruce lee would probably beat some amateur skilled guys, like some of the shittier UFC guys, but any9one notable would probably KTFO him easily
hes like rei zulu, he could have won a bunch of fights against those who have no skill but he would be beaten by any decent fighter
Yeah my bad I realized you probably didn't 5 min after I posted but I was darn tired after a 12 hour lol.Quote:
Nate, you're pretty much in the same boat as me, and as such, my comments arent directed towards you.
I think if you put the 60's era Lee in with current lightweights he would lose no doubt. If he was alive in this era to train in his prime I think it would be a different story. He was an amazing athlete and a genius IMO. It's a fun thought but there's no way to know. :'(Quote:
i got a feeling that bruce lee would probably beat some amateur skilled guys, like some of the shittier UFC guys, but any9one notable would probably KTFO him easily
hes like rei zulu, he could have won a bunch of fights against those who have no skill but he would be beaten by any decent fighter
Hes been dead for 30+ years now
And there are two active threads about him
Says everything that needs to be said
Stop trying to quantify legends,they are allways one of a kind