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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by meowza
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Originally Posted by motorcitycobra
Did you honestly think Rachmen could beat Lewis? Do you think many people gave Big George a chance against Joe Fraiser 1st time? Do think anyone thought Rocky could beat Drago? thats the nature of the game an thats why I love it ;D
So your opinion on Floyd is based on Lewis being unfocused that night? Because Lewis had a bad night, Floyd might too?
You know you got a weak argument when your points are based on "what if Floyd has a bad night".
Personally, I don't think Floyd needs to fight either Hatton or Margarito. Beating either of them will do nothing for his legacy. Hatton has troubles against slick fighters. Floyd easily beats slow cumbersome fighters. I don't even see this fight being close.
As for Margarito, people want him to be better than he actually is. It'd be a good story if this guy who never gets his chance finally gets his chance in the ring and beats the top dog. He's nothing but a countering stick. Even if Floyd beats 8 men with his arms tied behind his back his most ardent detractor will always say, "But he didn't fight Margarito!".
It'd be awesome for Hatton or Margarito's careers to fight someone like Floyd. But Floyd doesn't need those guys.
If After Floyd beats Oscar, I'd like to see him fight Mosley and depending on where Cotto's career is at during that point, maybe a Cotto fight.
Mosley poses the greatest danger to Floyd because of his speed and output.
If Cotto stays as busy as he appears he will be, he could be a legitimate contender after those two fights.
After those two (maybe Cotto for the third), I don't see how you can keep him off the alltime list.
Don't throw Hatton and tony's names in there. Tony has done nothing to deserve a Floyd fight. And if Hatton is saying he wants to stay at 140 for now, what does that say about his desire to fight Floyd.
It's not Floyd's fault he hasn't been in a great fight. It's not Floyd's job to make a close fight. Why would he be stupid enough to do that.
WTF are you on? How did you think Lewis been unfocused has any bearing on my opioin of Floyd. I like Floyd as a boxer, what I was saying is he's NOT invicable like all you groupies think he is no one is FACT. If you would have read all my posts I was saying I would like to see him in more fights he's only 28 or something, how can he retire saying he's best ever when he's young an there's al ot of competative fights left or at least interesting fights, which by the way I said he would win IMO. I like boxing an I wanna see him fight more, I'm not slagging him..
An whats all this about people not deserving to get a fight with him? It's BS thats his job you saying he can turn round and say I am not fighting him he's a nobody I'm not fighting him.... In effect that is ducking.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
I've never understood why people think Floyd is ducking fighters ???
To my mind the only time you could conceivably say he took an easy fight was against Baldomir but he had the Ring belt and was the undisputed welterweight champion so it made sense to fight him.
If you guys would have actually bothered to watch Floyd's career you would know that since even before he moved upto lightweight to face Castillo the one fighter on his mind has been Oscar De La Hoya.
Watch his fights with Sosa, Ndou, Chavez, etc at the end of every fight he's calling out De La Hoya.
He knows that amongst the lower weight classes nobody has achieved as much, and has as big a fan base as the Golden Boy and his whole career has been a quest to get Oscar in the ring.
It's funny watching his fights from 4 or 5 years ago and Merchant and Lampley discuss him wanting to fight De La Hoya with Merchant saying that Floyd has about as much chance of beating Oscar as a flyweight world champ would have of beating Floyd.
Floyd has raced through the divisions in the past couple years to get his big shot with Oscar. So he didn't stop to clean out some of the trash along the way, so what?
Once he's beaten Oscar he's effectively proven he would have beaten all those other 'flavour of the month' guys too.
He will beat Oscar, and then look for his legacy defining fights with Mosely and Cotto no doubt being the two biggest targets.
But to say he's scared of fighting people is just stupid, he's not scared, he's just been focused on a particluar goal, becoming a 5 weight world champ and beating Oscar De La Hoya, the most popular fighter of modern times.
You don't really believe that Baldo is the only hand picked fight he's had so cut that out. Of course he's been calling out DLH. So has everyone else within 2 or 3 weight clasees of the Golden Boy. Money!!!! Plain & Simple.
You could actually make a case of DLH doing the same thing and not fightting some guys until after they were exposed or softened up or both but, he did take some serious challenges later on when his legacy was being questioned.
Meanwhile, Floyd is trying to crawl under a rock after collecting a major paycheck against a guy who has had 1 fight in the last 3 years and is no spring chicken anymore. He doesn't want to prove anything to his fans that are backing him so strongly. He'd rather walk away with his money and leave many unanswered questions.
That's an interesting legacy. Leaving the sport once the going gets tough.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
Fact...Mosley just doesnt have that big of an appeal and pull within the boxing world to make a fight with Floyd happen right now.He needs at least another impressive win because ONE good fight doesnt warrant a shot at Floyd.What really gets me...is that people seem to think that if Floyd doesnt fight Cotto,Margo,Williams,and who ever else calls him out defines his legacy!Who has Cotto really beaten?Who has Margo beaten?Leave while there are unanswered questions...wtf...I dont understand how you think that cotto with 27 fights under his belt can beat Floyd.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
Floyd fighting Oscar is pretty much riskier than fighting both Hatton and Margarito altogether.
Oscar could easily defeat both this guys even at this point of his career. If Floyd gets past Oscar and i think he will, it'll add more glitter to his record more than a win against Ricky or Antonio.
And i agree that Floyd doesn't need to fight either Ricky or Antonio (Ricky a good fighter but not great, Antonio not that good of a fighter.), he should go fight greater fighters like Shane or Winky.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by brazilianbomber
This man dominated a decade (90's) he will have a greater legacy. Oscar has to many questionable decisions.
I never quite understand these questionable decisions Oscar has had in his favor, Quartey was a close fight against a good opponent and if Oscar had lost people would be crying foul over that one. He was blatantly robbed against Trinidad in what has to be the worst decision of the 90's and certainly in the top ten worst decisions ever. I thought he won the second Mosley fight and yet the judges have him losing UD, he lost the first fight no question and yet that one is split.
Overall in my mind he has only lost two fights!
As for PBF, his legacy will be set if he unifies the Welterweight crown.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
People talk about the names he has on his legacy?
I know there are many comments "What about the names he shoulda had? "
Hatton or Cotto or Tszyu at 140 ? - it's easy to blame the boxer(s) but most reasons are actually down to the TV companies.
Kostya's team (Vlad Wharton) tried to make Mayweather or Gatti fight - but it was Kostya's 3 fight deal with showtime which put the whole thing on ice - Hatton was the first of the 3 fights, which at the time, people wondered why Kostya would accept it, but it basically was a career-high purse and a great challenge.
That left the 2 remaining fighters in Gatti & Floyd to duke it out - a fight, stylistically, which Arturo was never going to fair very well in. But that is not the issue here - it was both fighter's paymasters HBO which wrapped the deal up.
With regards Miguel Cotto, Arum would retain him for another day rather than plonk him at the deep end with a fighter like Mayweather, whom at the time, was far more polished.
I think Floyd has to take a little critiscm for some opponents (Brussles) but in fairness hasn't done too badly !
Sometimes we let our personal opinions on someone cloud how good they are, hence some of the flak Floyd recieves.
Me personally, i'm glad he's in the sport as he adds a great angle to any division - but his style of fighting, as stunning as it can me - does not give me goosebumps i'm afraid.
Gimme a mexican any day. Barrera V Marquez anyone? ;D
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by glennf
I never quite understand these questionable decisions Oscar has had in his favor
Whitaker, Quartey and Sturm are the three questionable decisions in his favor. He easily could have lost all 3. I thought the Quartey one may have been the worst of the 3. Ike clearly won 7 rounds and completely dominated DLH for a large portion of the fight.
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He was blatantly robbed against Trinidad in what has to be the worst decision of the 90's
I wouldn't go that far.
Whitaker-Chavez and Lewis-Holyfield I were both much worse decisions.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by glennf
I never quite understand these questionable decisions Oscar has had in his favor
Whitaker, Quartey and Sturm are the three questionable decisions in his favor. He easily could have lost all 3. I thought the Quartey one may have been the worst of the 3. Ike clearly won 7 rounds and completely dominated DLH for a large portion of the fight.
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He was blatantly robbed against Trinidad in what has to be the worst decision of the 90's
I wouldn't go that far.
Whitaker-Chavez and Lewis-Holyfield I were both much worse decisions.
Ok, one of the three worst decisions of the 90's! Then again I thought Holyfield won the second Lewis fight! I didn't score a round to Lewis in that one until round 9! ( I must have had way to many beers that night) DLH v Whitaker and Sturm were both line ball. Having said all that DLH has fought the best and win or lose his legacy is assured, PBF has a bit to do yet.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by glennf
Having said all that DLH has fought the best and win or lose his legacy is assured, PBF has a bit to do yet.
Agree completely. Oscar can throw his list of opponents up against anyone's. I've never been a big fan of Oscar, but he's always had my respect, because he's spent an entire decade fighting the best of the best.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
If wer'e talking about any weight class...currently I say that it'd have to be either Wright, Wlad Klitschko, Oscar, or Hopkins.
Losses or not...they have damned fine legacy's. You don't always have to reign undefeated to be the man.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
If wer'e talking about any weight class...currently I say that it'd have to be either Wright, Wlad Klitschko, Oscar, or Hopkins.
Losses or not...they have damned fine legacy's. You don't always have to reign undefeated to be the man.
:coolclick:
That's exactly what the f*** I'm talking about.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
How in the world is Wlad's legacy better than Floyd's????????????????????????????
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
How in the world is Wlad's legacy better than Floyd's????????????????????????????
That's what the f*** I'm talking about too. ;)
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
Floyd is gonna retire undefeated and he is dominant which accounts for something.Its not his fault that the there aren't many elite fighters in his division.He fought all of the people he was suppose to fight,other than mosley(who declined a mayweather fight on 3 seperate occasions...period.Lets get serious..a fight with Cotto,Margo,and anyone else who calls him out is not going to affect his legacy.How is Wright and Hopkins legacy greater than Floyds??????????
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
Floyd is gonna retire undefeated and he is dominant which accounts for something.Its not his fault that the there aren't many elite fighters in his division.He fought all of the people he was suppose to fight,other than mosley(who declined a mayweather fight on 3 seperate occasions...period.Lets get serious..a fight with Cotto,Margo,and anyone else who calls him out is not going to affect his legacy.How is Wright and Hopkins legacy greater than Floyds??????????
Hopkins 20 defenses of the Middleweight title for ten years might have something to do with it!
Floyd is well off the mark at present and beating DLH will not be enough. He needs to unify the 147lb division in the the next 18 months. There is a huge chunk of unfinished business yet to accomplish for Floyd. If he loses to Cotto, Margo and Mosley his legacy is greatly affected. I don't think he would lose to those guys so nothing should get in his way of setting himself for a great boxing legacy.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
Floyd is gonna retire undefeated and he is dominant which accounts for something.Its not his fault that the there aren't many elite fighters in his division.He fought all of the people he was suppose to fight,other than mosley(who declined a mayweather fight on 3 seperate occasions...period.Lets get serious..a fight with Cotto,Margo,and anyone else who calls him out is not going to affect his legacy.How is Wright and Hopkins legacy greater than Floyds??????????
I don't think much of Hopkins either cause I think he milked his title without taking any serious challenges so it could have been 40 straight wins and I'm not going to be impressed if it's not against elite competition (from his own weight class).
I mean c'mon, how many people are doggin Valuev for not fighting elite competition? And Floyd is suposed to get a free pass why? Oh that's right, cause he has a big a** mouth.
You're speaking like a fan of a fighter and not a fan of the sport. A real fan wants to see real fights against real competition. He hasn't fought the best on the way up so all those paper titles in different weight classes are not as meaningful as you're making them out to be.
Oh and did say there it's not his fault there aren't aby real challenges at his weight. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard. WW is the most loaded division in boxing followed by MW right now.
Get your posts together.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by Bx730NY
I mean c'mon, how many people are doggin Valuev for not fighting elite competition? And Floyd is suposed to get a free pass why?
Floyd's opposition is open for criticism, just like anyone else's. And I agree with people who think that Floyd's opposition deserves extra examination because he is #1 PFP.
But let's not try to compare Floyd with Valuev. There is no comparison. Valuev had fought NOBODY until just recently. And his best opponent ever is John Ruiz, who is a total stiff.
Even if you don't like Floyd's opponents, they're light years better than Valuev's opponents.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by Bx730NY
I mean c'mon, how many people are doggin Valuev for not fighting elite competition? And Floyd is suposed to get a free pass why?
Floyd's opposition is open for criticism, just like anyone else's. And I agree with people who think that Floyd's opposition deserves extra examination because he is #1 PFP.
But let's not try to compare Floyd with Valuev. There is no comparison. Valuev had fought NOBODY until just recently. And his best opponent ever is John Ruiz, who is a total stiff.
Even if you don't like Floyd's opponents, they're light years better than Valuev's opponents.
What I'm saying is that people wanna see Valuev in there with a real threat before he breaks the record just like people wanna see Floyd take some chances before he retires.
Not a valid point?
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by Bx730NY
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by Bx730NY
I mean c'mon, how many people are doggin Valuev for not fighting elite competition? And Floyd is suposed to get a free pass why?
Floyd's opposition is open for criticism, just like anyone else's. And I agree with people who think that Floyd's opposition deserves extra examination because he is #1 PFP.
But let's not try to compare Floyd with Valuev. There is no comparison. Valuev had fought NOBODY until just recently. And his best opponent ever is John Ruiz, who is a total stiff.
Even if you don't like Floyd's opponents, they're light years better than Valuev's opponents.
What I'm saying is that people wanna see Valuev in there with a real threat before he breaks the record just like people wanna see Floyd take some chances before he retires.
Not a valid point?
Bx, let me correct myself. I didn't read all the way thru Olympian's post at first, which is the one you were responding to with your last post. After reading thru the posts again, I see what you were trying to say.
I disagree with Olympian's statement that Floyd's future opponents (Cotto, for example) won't have any affect on his legacy, that's completely not true. Floyd's next 4 or 5 fights will have a HUGE affect on his legacy. Right now, Floyd is just the best fighter of the moment, but not yet an all-time great. If he beats Oscar, Shane, Cotto, and a couple other good fighters over the next 2 to 3 years, that's increases his legacy a ton.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by Bx730NY
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by Bx730NY
I mean c'mon, how many people are doggin Valuev for not fighting elite competition? And Floyd is suposed to get a free pass why?
Floyd's opposition is open for criticism, just like anyone else's. And I agree with people who think that Floyd's opposition deserves extra examination because he is #1 PFP.
But let's not try to compare Floyd with Valuev. There is no comparison. Valuev had fought NOBODY until just recently. And his best opponent ever is John Ruiz, who is a total stiff.
Even if you don't like Floyd's opponents, they're light years better than Valuev's opponents.
What I'm saying is that people wanna see Valuev in there with a real threat before he breaks the record just like people wanna see Floyd take some chances before he retires.
Not a valid point?
Bx, let me correct myself. I didn't read all the way thru Olympian's post at first, which is the one you were responding to with your last post. After reading thru the posts again, I see what you were trying to say.
I disagree with Olympian's statement that Floyd's future opponents (Cotto, for example) won't have any affect on his legacy, that's completely not true. Floyd's next 4 or 5 fights will have a HUGE affect on his legacy. Right now, Floyd is just the best fighter of the moment, but not yet an all-time great. If he beats Oscar, Shane, Cotto, and a couple other good fighters over the next 2 to 3 years, that's increases his legacy a ton.
Sure Cotto is good but he just isnt on mayweathers level.Mayweather wanted to fight Mosley on 3 seperate occasions...an for personal reasons mosley decided to take other paths.Mayweather is more than likely gonna fight Hatton after DLH...but be serious..what other welterweights are there???Other than Mosley they arent elite.It just so happens that his division isnt stacked with elite fighters...who's fault is that?You cant honestly expect him to fight Margo,Cotto,Williams,Berto just because they are the "best of the welterweight division"...
Cotto-people think he could KO Floyd?Explain why this fight should happen...because his stock definitly went down since his last 2 fights.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
How in the world is Wlad's legacy better than Floyd's????????????????????????????
Because win lose or draw Wlad has faced the top taskers of his division & he is now making a comeback off of roughly 51 fights.
His legacy holds a lot more water than any other fighter at 200lbs...which is why I said if we were talking all classes.
Wlad has faced adversity & he's fallen & picked up the pieces. Much more compelling legacy than fighting 'the almost best'.
Trust me...I'm a Floyd fan...but as I have said before...you can pick apart everyone's record.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by Bx730NY
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
Floyd is gonna retire undefeated and he is dominant which accounts for something.Its not his fault that the there aren't many elite fighters in his division.He fought all of the people he was suppose to fight,other than mosley(who declined a mayweather fight on 3 seperate occasions...period.Lets get serious..a fight with Cotto,Margo,and anyone else who calls him out is not going to affect his legacy.How is Wright and Hopkins legacy greater than Floyds??????????
I don't think much of Hopkins either cause I think he milked his title without taking any serious challenges so it could have been 40 straight wins and I'm not going to be impressed if it's not against elite competition (from his own weight class).
I mean c'mon, how many people are doggin Valuev for not fighting elite competition? And Floyd is suposed to get a free pass why? Oh that's right, cause he has a big a** mouth.
You're speaking like a fan of a fighter and not a fan of the sport. A real fan wants to see real fights against real competition. He hasn't fought the best on the way up so all those paper titles in different weight classes are not as meaningful as you're making them out to be.
Oh and did say there it's not his fault there aren't aby real challenges at his weight. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard. WW is the most loaded division in boxing followed by MW right now.
Get your posts together.
How is the welterweight division loaded?...you must be one of the ones who think that Margo,Cotto,Berto,Williams can all KO mayweather.You call those welters loaded?
And for you to imply that I dont know what I'm talking about and Im just a fan of a fighter.I AM a fighter...now lets hear your credentials?
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
Sure Cotto is good but he just isnt on mayweathers level.
You think that Floyd is the best fighter in the world PFP, correct? If you do, then doesn't that mean that no one is "on his level?"
If you're the best, then you're on a level of your own.
Under this logic you're using, any fighter who is the best shouldn't feel the need to fight anyone, since there's no opponent out there who is on their level. But that logic is wrong, champions need to constantly fight the up-and-coming contenders, to continue proving that no one is on their level.
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
what other welterweights are there???
The welterweight division is the deepest division in boxing right now. That's why everyone should hope that Floyd decides to drop back down to 147 after DLH, because there are lots of welterweights out there. If you think 147 is barren, then which divisions do you think have lots of good fighters?
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
Other than Mosley, they arent elite. It just so happens that his division isnt stacked with elite fighters
How often do you think divisions have more than one truly elite fighter? The featherweights did for a while, since Barrera, Morales, Pacquiao, and Marquez were all around. You won't find many others. Elite fighters are rare.
A lot of divisions have zero elite fighters. If you're lucky, you have one elite champ and a bunch of young contenders... like the welterweight division.
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
You cant honestly expect him to fight Margo,Cotto,Williams,Berto just because they are the "best of the welterweight division"...
I thought that's what a champion does.... fight the best contenders in the division. Champion owns a belt, champions defends his belt by fighting the "next best" guys out there. At least that's the way it's worked for 100 years.
If he's not supposed to fight those guys, then who is he supposed to fight?
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
How in the world is Wlad's legacy better than Floyd's????????????????????????????
Because win lose or draw Wlad has faced the top taskers of his division & he is now making a comeback off of roughly 51 fights.
How can he say he's fought the best?? He never faced Lewis before he retired, he still hasn't faced Maskaev, Valuev, Toney, Rahman. I'm not saying those guys are great heavyweights by any means... they're certainly not... but they are the best in the division over the past few years, and Wlad hasn't faced them.
Wlad faced Peter, that's it. Tim Austin and Lamon Brewster don't qualify.
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
Wlad has faced adversity & he's fallen & picked up the pieces. Much more compelling legacy than fighting 'the almost best'.
Wait a second, you're telling me that what Wlad has accomplished to this point in his career is more compelling or impressive than what Floyd has accomplished, because he "faced adversity and picked up the pieces"?
How is getting KTFO by Corrie Sanders (who trains by playing golf), and then getting KTFO by Lamon Brewster (and claiming he lost because he was drugged :laugh:) more of a compelling legacy than winning titles in 4 weight classes while becoming the undisputed #1 PFP fighter in the world?
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
How about 44 year old Evander Holyfield ? now there is a legacy. think about it .. Evander is tap dancing on the same snatch boxes everyone else is, and yet there is very little love on this forum for the man.. a damn shame really. He fought 4 fights with a torn rotator cuff, and never complained about it once ! thats a warrior, now thats a real prize fighter !! before its over with the throw backs are going to be deep in the mix. and knock these youngster on their backsides !! Holyfield, Tua, Peter for 2007 baby .. now that's what I’m talking about ! O0
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
I've never understood why people think Floyd is ducking fighters ???
To my mind the only time you could conceivably say he took an easy fight was against Baldomir but he had the Ring belt and was the undisputed welterweight champion so it made sense to fight him.
If you guys would have actually bothered to watch Floyd's career you would know that since even before he moved upto lightweight to face Castillo the one fighter on his mind has been Oscar De La Hoya.
Watch his fights with Sosa, Ndou, Chavez, etc at the end of every fight he's calling out De La Hoya.
He knows that amongst the lower weight classes nobody has achieved as much, and has as big a fan base as the Golden Boy and his whole career has been a quest to get Oscar in the ring.
It's funny watching his fights from 4 or 5 years ago and Merchant and Lampley discuss him wanting to fight De La Hoya with Merchant saying that Floyd has about as much chance of beating Oscar as a flyweight world champ would have of beating Floyd.
Floyd has raced through the divisions in the past couple years to get his big shot with Oscar. So he didn't stop to clean out some of the trash along the way, so what?
Once he's beaten Oscar he's effectively proven he would have beaten all those other 'flavour of the month' guys too.
He will beat Oscar, and then look for his legacy defining fights with Mosely and Cotto no doubt being the two biggest targets.
But to say he's scared of fighting people is just stupid, he's not scared, he's just been focused on a particluar goal, becoming a 5 weight world champ and beating Oscar De La Hoya, the most popular fighter of modern times.
You mean the biggest payday, even flyweights call out ODH (goofball) .... IF PBF fights ODH on his bicycle the decision will end as the last 3 fights this past weekend on HBO. Seems overall aggressiveness and powershots have replaced jab output in the new PPV marketplace. So knowing this, it will be nice to read all the posts after the ODH favorable decision. It's not your Dad's type of boxing scoring (perception) anymore due to the money involved ! But many of you will say it was fixed ! Get with the times !!!! Sure hope ODH KTF out PBF, could not bear to hear the king of garbage attack the judging and take it to unseen heights. And Saddo will have an new record number of posts by his followers. The best part is not having to argue with them. Just adding a smiley and saying "Who's no longer undefeated? " Who has the "W" ? What about that legacy ? Who did he fight to have that P4P status ? It's gonna feel like I just had sex, gimme a cigarette, please .....
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
Sweetpea to answer your questions and to correct you...
1.I never said that no one is on Floyds level...I said that Cotto wasnt
2.How is the welterweight division deep?Zab,Baldo,Spinks?From what I understand...anyone who calls Floyd out ...he has to fight them,Which makes no sense.You have to earn a title shot.An arguement can be made for Mosley...but what about the rest of them?Cotto has been completely overhyped...if you disagree take a look at his last 2 fights(not impressive)
3.Cotto and all of the other welters need to battle it out for a shot at mayweather.Its just a simple case of none of them really want to lose their chance to earn a big payday against mayweather.
4.Fight the best in the division is the way its been done 100yrs is what you said...Thats not entirely true.When you've dominated a division you either bump up or down divisions to seek better opposition.
5.Who do I wanna see Floyd fight?well...He's is more than likely gonna fight Hatton after DLH...other than him...I want to see someone actually step up
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by Bx730NY
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by Bx730NY
I mean c'mon, how many people are doggin Valuev for not fighting elite competition? And Floyd is suposed to get a free pass why?
Floyd's opposition is open for criticism, just like anyone else's. And I agree with people who think that Floyd's opposition deserves extra examination because he is #1 PFP.
But let's not try to compare Floyd with Valuev. There is no comparison. Valuev had fought NOBODY until just recently. And his best opponent ever is John Ruiz, who is a total stiff.
Even if you don't like Floyd's opponents, they're light years better than Valuev's opponents.
What I'm saying is that people wanna see Valuev in there with a real threat before he breaks the record just like people wanna see Floyd take some chances before he retires.
Not a valid point?
Bx, let me correct myself. I didn't read all the way thru Olympian's post at first, which is the one you were responding to with your last post. After reading thru the posts again, I see what you were trying to say.
I disagree with Olympian's statement that Floyd's future opponents (Cotto, for example) won't have any affect on his legacy, that's completely not true. Floyd's next 4 or 5 fights will have a HUGE affect on his legacy. Right now, Floyd is just the best fighter of the moment, but not yet an all-time great. If he beats Oscar, Shane, Cotto, and a couple other good fighters over the next 2 to 3 years, that's increases his legacy a ton.
Sure Cotto is good but he just isnt on mayweathers level.Mayweather wanted to fight Mosley on 3 seperate occasions...an for personal reasons mosley decided to take other paths.Mayweather is more than likely gonna fight Hatton after DLH...but be serious..what other welterweights are there???Other than Mosley they arent elite.It just so happens that his division isnt stacked with elite fighters...who's fault is that?
You cant honestly expect him to fight Margo,Cotto,Williams,Berto just because they are the "best of the welterweight division"...
Cotto-people think he could KO Floyd?Explain why this fight should happen...because his stock definitly went down since his last 2 fights.
Read the glow cause I think you don't even realize that made my point even clearer.
BTW, do you think Floyds stock went up since the Baldo fight.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
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Originally Posted by Bx730NY
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
Floyd is gonna retire undefeated and he is dominant which accounts for something.Its not his fault that the there aren't many elite fighters in his division.He fought all of the people he was suppose to fight,other than mosley(who declined a mayweather fight on 3 seperate occasions...period.Lets get serious..a fight with Cotto,Margo,and anyone else who calls him out is not going to affect his legacy.How is Wright and Hopkins legacy greater than Floyds??????????
I don't think much of Hopkins either cause I think he milked his title without taking any serious challenges so it could have been 40 straight wins and I'm not going to be impressed if it's not against elite competition (from his own weight class).
I mean c'mon, how many people are doggin Valuev for not fighting elite competition? And Floyd is suposed to get a free pass why? Oh that's right, cause he has a big a** mouth.
You're speaking like a fan of a fighter and not a fan of the sport. A real fan wants to see real fights against real competition. He hasn't fought the best on the way up so all those paper titles in different weight classes are not as meaningful as you're making them out to be.
Oh and did say there it's not his fault there aren't aby real challenges at his weight. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard. WW is the most loaded division in boxing followed by MW right now.
Get your posts together.
How is the welterweight division loaded?...you must be one of the ones who think that Margo,Cotto,Berto,Williams can all KO mayweather.You call those welters loaded?
And for you to imply that I dont know what I'm talking about and Im just a fan of a fighter.I AM a fighter...now lets hear your credentials?
Which weight class are you in and what city are you out of. Maybe we can work something out.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
165lbs...I'll be in Colorado at the Training facility for a month...but I'll spar with anyone 190lbs and under.Where are you from?
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
Quote:
Cotto-people think he could KO Floyd?Explain why this fight should happen...because his stock definitly went down since his last 2 fights.
I believe Cotto can KO Floyd. His chin is not made of granite.
Cotto's stock has not dropped. He beat Urkal from pole to pole. The corner threw in the towel remember? Cotto was sick and he still did well.
Paulie was saved because Cotto fractured his hand.
Quote:
BTW, do you think Floyds stock went up since the Baldo fight.
Hell no! Floyd's stock actually dropped. People who paid good money for great seats, were getting up and leaving from Floyd's fight against Baldomierda. If these people could have demanded their money back, I am sure a lot of them would have. Mind you, these were Floyd's fan who were getting up and leaving rounds 9 and up. Floyd only broke a nail in this fight. Cotto suffered a fracture and yet he still tried to go for the kill. Who looked worse at the end of the night? Baldomir or Malignaggi?
That is what I thought.
Floyd's stock is going to go up thanks to Oscar De La Hoya. (PERIOD!)
And some one mentioned that PBF will go after Hatton? Of course he will. We all know Hatton has not looked good either in his last couple of fights. I said if PBF does not retire, he will go after either Spinks or Hatton but Floyd will not jump into the Welter Weight division any time soon. He is afraid of Tony Margarito and he always will be. Cotto will beat the shiet out Floyd. I said long ago that Floyd will wait until Cotto cleans house and then he will grow a tiny set of balls and try to jump back into the WW and fight those who Cotto has taken out. (Williams, Margarito, Berto, Mosley) and who ever else shows up to dance. But Pretty biatch will have to answer to Cotto sooner or later. Cotto to unify them one way or another. Just you wait and see :)
As soon as Cotto teaches Floyd how to dispose of Judah ;)
If the destruction of Judah is great, Floyd will avoid Cotto even in a Church :)
Maybe Team Cotto sets a trap and lets Judah look better than he is. But then again that would be tough because Bladomierda beat his ass and Kostya Tszyu put Judah on the #1 funniest que3r street ever. We know Judah aint all that and yet didnt he get robbed on a knock down against PBF? I swear I seen PBF's glove touch the canvas. Am I right? Floyds is over rated and will be exposed soon enough.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
How about 44 year old Evander Holyfield ? now there is a legacy. think about it .. Evander is tap dancing on the same snatch boxes everyone else is, and yet there is very little love on this forum for the man.. a damn shame really. He fought 4 fights with a torn rotator cuff, and never complained about it once ! thats a warrior, now thats a real prize fighter !! before its over with the throw backs are going to be deep in the mix. and knock these youngster on their backsides !! Holyfield, Tua, Peter for 2007 baby .. now that's what I’m talking about ! O0
:coolclick: Lords
Well said, I think we are the only 2 around here that support Evander and think he has a legitimate shot at winning championship and look strong and sharp doing it...
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by JT Rock
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Originally Posted by Lords Gym
How about 44 year old Evander Holyfield ? now there is a legacy. think about it .. Evander is tap dancing on the same snatch boxes everyone else is, and yet there is very little love on this forum for the man.. a damn shame really. He fought 4 fights with a torn rotator cuff, and never complained about it once ! thats a warrior, now thats a real prize fighter !! before its over with the throw backs are going to be deep in the mix. and knock these youngster on their backsides !! Holyfield, Tua, Peter for 2007 baby .. now that's what I’m talking about ! O0
:coolclick: Lords
Well said, I think we are the only 2 around here that support Evander and think he has a legitimate shot at winning championship and look strong and sharp doing it...
:coolclick: back at yeah JT ... I think most people don't understand the pain in which Evander was in for those fights with Ruiz , Donald, Toney.. Evander was fighting with a torn rotator cuff during those matches. Holyfield had a 4 fight deal with King when he ripped his rotator cuff. went to the doctor and the doctor said that there is a 50% chance after surgery that you will not be able to ever fight again.. Evander said " hell with that I got 4 fights coming up .I am going to honor the contract, and after that I will take on the surgery and its risks. So he did.. Now after 4 surgeries that he is back to pain free. .
I have fought before with a slight tear in my rotator cuff.. Slight tear mind you , and I thought I was going to fukin die ! The fact Evander did it for 4 fights with a severe tear is a testament to his courage and warrior type mentality.. and he never complained once about it ! I Fucking love the guy ! O0
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by Danny_G
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Cotto-people think he could KO Floyd?Explain why this fight should happen...because his stock definitly went down since his last 2 fights.
I believe Cotto can KO Floyd. His chin is not made of granite.
Cotto's stock has not dropped. He beat Urkal from pole to pole. The corner threw in the towel remember? Cotto was sick and he still did well.
Paulie was saved because Cotto fractured his hand.
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BTW, do you think Floyds stock went up since the Baldo fight.
Hell no! Floyd's stock actually dropped. People who paid good money for great seats, were getting up and leaving from Floyd's fight against Baldomierda. If these people could have demanded their money back, I am sure a lot of them would have. Mind you, these were Floyd's fan who were getting up and leaving rounds 9 and up. Floyd only broke a nail in this fight. Cotto suffered a fracture and yet he still tried to go for the kill. Who looked worse at the end of the night? Baldomir or Malignaggi?
That is what I thought.
Floyd's stock is going to go up thanks to Oscar De La Hoya. (PERIOD!)
And some one mentioned that PBF will go after Hatton? Of course he will. We all know Hatton has not looked good either in his last couple of fights. I said if PBF does not retire, he will go after either Spinks or Hatton but Floyd will not jump into the Welter Weight division any time soon. He is afraid of Tony Margarito and he always will be. Cotto will beat the shiet out Floyd. I said long ago that Floyd will wait until Cotto cleans house and then he will grow a tiny set of balls and try to jump back into the WW and fight those who Cotto has taken out. (Williams, Margarito, Berto, Mosley) and who ever else shows up to dance. But Pretty biatch will have to answer to Cotto sooner or later. Cotto to unify them one way or another. Just you wait and see :)
As soon as Cotto teaches Floyd how to dispose of Judah ;)
If the destruction of Judah is great, Floyd will avoid Cotto even in a Church :)
Maybe Team Cotto sets a trap and lets Judah look better than he is. But then again that would be tough because Bladomierda beat his a** and Kostya Tszyu put Judah on the #1 funniest que3r street ever. We know Judah aint all that and yet didnt he get robbed on a knock down against PBF? I swear I seen PBF's glove touch the canvas. Am I right? Floyds is over rated and will be exposed soon enough.
If Cotto couldnt KO Malignaggi and Urkal...how the hell is he gonna magically KO FLoyd?Be serious.And Urkals corner threw in the towel b/c they felt that they were getting biased points taken away!Cotto was sick,he hurt his hand,etc...WHO CARES?If he wasnt able to fight he shouldnt have stepped in the ring.
Paulie wasnt saved by a"fractured hand"...he battled it out...point blank.You cant take anything away from him.Cotto is being hyped on his knockout power and his body blows...and neither happened in his last 2 fights.FACT
For you to say Floyds stock dropped?What boxing world do you follow?He dominated the so called"welterweight champ" and landed a fight against DLH.As for the "fans" leaving...those were only people who either came to see Floyd get KO'd or came to see a wrestling brawl match...Any true fan of the sport would realize that there was a boxing clinic being applied.People started leaving the Winky-Tito fight so the fact that "fans" left means nothing.
DannyG...sorry to break it to you but Margo has proved nothin...and I'm so glad that you "know floyd is scarred of Margo"...MArgo went to 154 and loss...FLoyd is bumping up and taking on the golden boy...so they cant even be compared.
I swear that if you truely believe that Mayweather is overrated...look at all he's accomplished...if you still believe so....you know NOTHING about boxing other than chatting on a forum b/c there is a reason everyone from 140-154 is calling his name out.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
165lbs...I'll be in Colorado at the Training facility for a month...but I'll spar with anyone 190lbs and under.Where are you from?
I'm about a WW but I'm in NYC. If you're ever in the area you can holla though.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
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Originally Posted by Kel
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
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Originally Posted by ross
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
The difference is that Floyd is the p4p best.You cant just walk on a court and expect to challenge Michael Jordan in a 1 on 1 game.Floyd is at that level where he doesn't have to chance anyone now...they have to chase him.
So just who did Floyd beat that makes him a better case for p4p than, say, Hatton.
Ricky fought a legend and the "man" for the legitimate light welter title, then unified, then moved up a weight straight in to another title fight and wan then went back down a weight and beat yet another title holder, thats 4 reigning world champs in his last 4 fights, who has Floyd fought in his last 4 fights ?
He is p4p over Hatton because ...
Speed-PBF
Stamina-PBF
Strength-Hatton
Ring awareness-PBF
Defense-PBF
Experience-PBF
I could go on all day.
...and on and on and on and on.....
He is P4p for one reason alone ( no loss ) What kind of serious boxing enthusiast would qualify this schedule of opponents as one worth of a legacy. http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000352
Never has he fought another P4P boxer, those that did manage to win championship belts only polished / buffed them before relinquishing them. This schedule is littered with decent boxers and a couple of good ones. Those that had power have no mobility, and those that had mobility have no power. There is no reason he should not be 37- 0 so where is the accomplishment? Where are the great / risky opponents? I ask you once again to look at the list of fights and which fighters had a legitimate chance ....... ? If he conducts himself like a fraud and he fights only frauds , then it must be a fraud. This schedule absolutely merits no consideration for all time great status ! "PBF has undeniable skills/talents but he needs to put up or shut up" When you accomplish great things others will talk for you , you have no need to talk. Unless you're merely masking some shortcomings !!!!!
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
Sweetpea to answer your questions and to correct you...
1.I never said that no one is on Floyds level...I said that Cotto wasnt
So who is on his level?
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
2.How is the welterweight division deep?Zab,Baldo,Spinks?
Which division in boxing is deeper right now than 147? I can't find one. You could argue 130, but Morales and Barrera are both just about done with fighting (or at least they should be).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
From what I understand...anyone who calls Floyd out ...he has to fight them,Which makes no sense.
Of course he doesn't have to fight everyone who calls him out. I've gotten in a million arguments with people on this site, where I've said that Margarito is a chump, and that he is a fool if he thinks Floyd is ducking him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
3.Cotto and all of the other welters need to battle it out for a shot at mayweather.
And while all these welterweights are fighting each other, what is Floyd supposed to do in the meantime? Just sit at home and do nothing? If he's going to remain active, he would be fighting again in late '07. These contenders can't all fight each other by then. I don't see why someone like Cotto wouldn't be a deserving opponent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
4.Fight the best in the division is the way its been done 100yrs is what you said...Thats not entirely true.When you've dominated a division you either bump up or down divisions to seek better opposition.
Yes, but Floyd already has moved up divisions. He's already gone from 130 to 135 to 140 to 147 to 154. Every fighter needs to stop at a weight at some point. Floyd's most natural weight class is 147. Even though you don't think 147 is any good, there are more quality fighters there than at 140 or 154. And at this point in his career, you can't expect Floyd to get his weight any lower than the welterweight limit. The best fights for Floyd are at 147.
Like I said, every champ stops moving up in weight at some point and goes about cleaning out a division. Whitaker was the undisputed champ at 135, then moved up to 140, then to 147, and even won a belt at 154. But once he got to 147, he stayed there and took on all the top contenders. McGirt, Chavez, De La Hoya, Trinidad, etc. Mayweather should stay at 147 and fight all the top ranked guys.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
Sweetpea to answer your questions and to correct you...
1.I never said that no one is on Floyds level...I said that Cotto wasnt
So who is on his level?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
2.How is the welterweight division deep?Zab,Baldo,Spinks?
Which division in boxing is deeper right now than 147? I can't find one. You could argue 130, but Morales and Barrera are both just about done with fighting (or at least they should be).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
From what I understand...anyone who calls Floyd out ...he has to fight them,Which makes no sense.
Of course he doesn't have to fight everyone who calls him out. I've gotten in a million arguments with people on this site, where I've said that Margarito is a chump, and that he is a fool if he thinks Floyd is ducking him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
3.Cotto and all of the other welters need to battle it out for a shot at mayweather.
And while all these welterweights are fighting each other, what is Floyd supposed to do in the meantime? Just sit at home and do nothing? If he's going to remain active, he would be fighting again in late '07. These contenders can't all fight each other by then. I don't see why someone like Cotto wouldn't be a deserving opponent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
4.Fight the best in the division is the way its been done 100yrs is what you said...Thats not entirely true.When you've dominated a division you either bump up or down divisions to seek better opposition.
Yes, but Floyd already has moved up divisions. He's already gone from 130 to 135 to 140 to 147 to 154. Every fighter needs to stop at a weight at some point. Floyd's most natural weight class is 147. Even though you don't think 147 is any good, there are more quality fighters there than at 140 or 154. And at this point in his career, you can't expect Floyd to get his weight any lower than the welterweight limit. The best fights for Floyd are at 147.
Like I said, every champ stops moving up in weight at some point and goes about cleaning out a division. Whitaker was the undisputed champ at 135, then moved up to 140, then to 147, and even won a belt at 154. But once he got to 147, he stayed there and took on all the top contenders. McGirt, Chavez, De La Hoya, Trinidad, etc. Mayweather should stay at 147 and fight all the top ranked guys.
1.Barrera,Pac,Wright,DLH,Mosley are all at or close to that level.
2.Baldo,Zab,Gatti, are all still ranked in the division...so what does that mean?Margo holds a belt!!c'mon!
3.Mayweather doesnt need a a fight in 07...He no longer has to chase anyone and he is only 31 yrs old.
4.I see no point in Floyd fighting every "top" welterweight just to be doing it.He has been doing this for quit sometime already.Baldo,Zab,Gatti,Corrales,Castillo,etc...al l were considered top contenders at the time...Now when people mention them they were"bums" and "past" their prime.I still want to see mayweather fight people who actually pose a threat...not some overhyped 23yr old.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
2.Baldo,Zab,Gatti, are all still ranked in the division...so what does that mean?Margo holds a belt!!c'mon!
So what division is deeper than 147 then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
3.Mayweather doesnt need a a fight in 07...He no longer has to chase anyone and he is only 31 yrs old.
Well if he's going to stay active, then he would fight roughly once every 6 months. I don't know about you, but as a boxing fan, I enjoy watching the best fighters fight. You're saying you'd rather see Floyd sit at home, just to prove some point that he's better than everyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
I still want to see mayweather fight people who actually pose a threat...not some overhyped 23yr old.
Who's 23 years old?
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by Olympian904
Sweetpea to answer your questions and to correct you...
1.I never said that no one is on Floyds level...I said that Cotto wasnt
So who is on his level?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
2.How is the welterweight division deep?Zab,Baldo,Spinks?
Which division in boxing is deeper right now than 147? I can't find one. You could argue 130, but Morales and Barrera are both just about done with fighting (or at least they should be).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
From what I understand...anyone who calls Floyd out ...he has to fight them,Which makes no sense.
Of course he doesn't have to fight everyone who calls him out. I've gotten in a million arguments with people on this site, where I've said that Margarito is a chump, and that he is a fool if he thinks Floyd is ducking him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
3.Cotto and all of the other welters need to battle it out for a shot at mayweather.
And while all these welterweights are fighting each other, what is Floyd supposed to do in the meantime? Just sit at home and do nothing? If he's going to remain active, he would be fighting again in late '07. These contenders can't all fight each other by then. I don't see why someone like Cotto wouldn't be a deserving opponent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympian904
4.Fight the best in the division is the way its been done 100yrs is what you said...Thats not entirely true.When you've dominated a division you either bump up or down divisions to seek better opposition.
Yes, but Floyd already has moved up divisions. He's already gone from 130 to 135 to 140 to 147 to 154. Every fighter needs to stop at a weight at some point. Floyd's most natural weight class is 147. Even though you don't think 147 is any good, there are more quality fighters there than at 140 or 154. And at this point in his career, you can't expect Floyd to get his weight any lower than the welterweight limit. The best fights for Floyd are at 147.
Like I said, every champ stops moving up in weight at some point and goes about cleaning out a division. Whitaker was the undisputed champ at 135, then moved up to 140, then to 147, and even won a belt at 154. But once he got to 147, he stayed there and took on all the top contenders. McGirt, Chavez, De La Hoya, Trinidad, etc. Mayweather should stay at 147 and fight all the top ranked guys.
1.Barrera,Pac,Wright,DLH,Mosley are all at or close to that level.
2.Baldo,Zab,Gatti, are all still ranked in the division...so what does that mean?Margo holds a belt!!c'mon!
3.Mayweather doesnt need a a fight in 07...He no longer has to chase anyone and he is only 31 yrs old.
4.I see no point in Floyd fighting every "top" welterweight just to be doing it.He has been doing this for quit sometime already.Baldo,Zab,Gatti,Corrales,Castillo,etc...al l were considered top contenders at the time...Now when people mention them they were"bums" and "past" their prime.I still want to see mayweather fight people who actually pose a threat...not some overhyped 23yr old.
You're just a fan of Floyd, plain & simple. What you're saying isn't adding up.
He doesn't have to fight again in 07? He doesn't have to fight anyone else at ww to prove he's the best there? Ridiculous!!!
Oh that's right, he beat the legendary Baldomir already my bad.
Your posts need some serious tuning.
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Re: Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?
1.I think the middleweight division is pretty deep...Winky,Hopkins,Miranda,Calz,Taylor,etc...
2.You can stay active without a fight every 6 months...he lives in the gym..I'm saying that I would rather see someone who actually has a legitimate chance of beating him rather than someone who holds a belt and needs a fight...Face it...Mosley probably is the only welter he could possibly give him a run for his money.
3.23 was meant in a metaphoric way...Williams,Cotto,Berto,etc...all are young and overhyped
