REBOOT 2007 : Saddo's Official P4P list (the top 5 slots) VOTE!!!

#1 Pac
#2 PBF
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#3 Winky
#4 JMM
#4 MAB

Before you ask, the reason Bhop isn't on the list is becuase i feel his move to 175 was (to put it simply) a move into shallower waters and besides, if MAB was 6ft & anywhere near 175lbs he'd moider the Exicutioner. ;)

Oh and ive underlined #1 & #2 to highlight that IMO they are the ellite of the bunch.

To the people putting Pacquiao ahead of Mayweather: do you really, honestly, believe that Pacquiao would win if they fought at the same weight? It's not even such a crazy fantasy match--they weighed nearly the same amount in their last fights. IMO, Mayweather wins pretty much every single round of that fight. Pacquiao is undoubtedly more exciting, and he's improved technically over the last 3 years, but he's still essentially a KO punching brawler. He's got bad balance, always lunges with his shots, and often looks out of control. Mayweather, on the other hand, is pretty much technically flawless. All Pac would have in that fight would be a puncher's chance. And that shouldn't qualify one for the title of "best p4p boxer in the world."

For the same reason (Pac has very basic flaws, Winky doesn't), I don't understand putting Pac ahead of Winky. I don't really get how anyone downgraded Winky (who was the consensus #2 just a few months ago), despite the fact that he's been impressive, moved up in weight, and hasn't lost in the intervening time period (and should have gotten the W over Taylor). Is it because Pac did what everyone expected him to do (hand a completely shot Morales his third straight loss)? Doesn't make sense to me.

Why do you think an answer to your question is necessary in any way at all?

*Edit*

Oh sod it, youve got my goat now.

1st of all, its not like im saying PBF or Winky are piles of dog S***. Im not putting them at #2 and #3 to be polite. Im refering to the best boxers out of a pool of (probably) millions.

Secondly, Pac, for me is one of the better developing fighters in the game where as IMO winky is just on the turn.
My point being, Winky never featured too highly in my P4P.... Ever! So why is he gonna appear now?

Im not denying the fact that he has crazy defensive skills. However im also not denying that Winky beat a stiff, blown up Mosley, and absolute brick-wall, 1-Dimensional Tito and a fighter who, although is currently reigning at the top of the 160's, IMO has a lot left to be desired as a champion... Even as a fighter period.

However, just to reiterate, im not knocking Winky in any way ;D

And in regards to Floyd. Well, i just fancy Pac's speed AND power AND agression to nullify anything Floyd has to offer (At 130 of course, since you wanted to go down that route).

Its my opinion and im sticking to it :lickish:


Its funny, you act like this is your thread :-\ ::**

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Why do you think an answer to your questions is necessary in any way at all?

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Have SC #43 on me. To answer your question: because it's a forum; that's what it's for--discussion. I know it's a tough concept, but if you just press on and think about it for a few weeks (keep the tylenol on hand), I'm sure you'll eventually figure it out.

Here's another question, since you're such a fan of them: why do you think anyone should care about or respect your list when you refuse to discuss or even attempt to justify it?

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Why do you think an answer to your questions is necessary in any way at all?

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Have SC #43 on me. To answer your question: because it's a forum; that's what it's for--discussion. I know it's a tough concept, but if you just press on and think about it for a few weeks (keep the tylenol on hand), I'm sure you'll eventually figure it out.

Here's another question, since you're such a fan of them: why do you think anyone i should care about or respect your list when you refuse to discuss or even attempt to justify it?

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Hmm, good question... That IS a toughie :-\

To be honest shza, i mean if im totally honest. i dont have an answer because i dont particularly care.... Of course that relates to you and you alone at the moment.
However in regards to everyone else.. Well, we'll just have to wait and see?

Thanks for the SC btw, i guess it adds character.

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Why do you think an answer to your questions is necessary in any way at all?

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Have SC #43 on me. To answer your question: because it's a forum; that's what it's for--discussion. I know it's a tough concept, but if you just press on and think about it for a few weeks (keep the tylenol on hand), I'm sure you'll eventually figure it out.

Here's another question, since you're such a fan of them: why do you think anyone i should care about or respect your list when you refuse to discuss or even attempt to justify it?

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Hmm, good question... That IS a toughie :-\

To be honest shza, i mean if im totally honest. i dont have an answer because i dont particularly care.... Of course that relates to you and you alone at the moment.
However in regards to everyone else.. Well, we'll just have to wait and see?

Thanks for the SC btw, i guess it adds character.

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Mate, you're being an ass. He's right--it's a forum. People ask and answer questions and discuss things. You were out of line.

pbf
pac
winky
rafa
taylor

pac
jmm
bhop
winky

dammit i forgot j.t, i choose pbf because i forgot j.t.

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Originally Posted by shza

To the people putting Pacquiao ahead of Mayweather: do you really, honestly, believe that Pacquiao would win if they fought at the same weight? It's not even such a crazy fantasy match--they weighed nearly the same amount in their last fights. IMO, Mayweather wins pretty much every single round of that fight. Pacquiao is undoubtedly more exciting, and he's improved technically over the last 3 years, but he's still essentially a KO punching brawler. He's got bad balance, always lunges with his shots, and often looks out of control. Mayweather, on the other hand, is pretty much technically flawless. All Pac would have in that fight would be a puncher's chance. And that shouldn't qualify one for the title of "best p4p boxer in the world."

For the same reason (Pac has very basic flaws, Winky doesn't), I don't understand putting Pac ahead of Winky. I don't really get how anyone downgraded Winky (who was the consensus #2 just a few months ago), despite the fact that he's been impressive, moved up in weight, and hasn't lost in the intervening time period (and should have gotten the W over Taylor). Is it because Pac did what everyone expected him to do (hand a completely shot Morales his third straight loss)? Doesn't make sense to me.

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It all boils down to your definition of p4p best. I can absolutely understand where you're coming from - if we base the decision solely on technique, then PBF tops the list for me, as well. But, but, but - In my opinion, boxing is about a whole lot more than technique. PBF, in my opinion (which isn't worth much), has taken the easy route with the latter half of his career. I would like to see someone with as much talent as has stick around a division and totally dominate it. Instead, he's jumped from weight to weight, choosing his fights carefully. Who knows? If he fought more than one or two fights at a weight, he might have run into someone who could give him trouble. Unlikely? Maybe. And that's the heart of why I have him only at #2. There's a big question mark following him around for me, a lot of what ifs. The thing I like about Pac is his willingness to get in the ring with anyone. He's already fought three of the best fighters at his weight in MAB, JMM, and Morales, and shown plenty of technical flaws, sure - but also plenty of heart. Apparently his flaws as a boxer didn't really amount to much in those fights, since he performed quite well.

I base a p4p list not only on technique, but also on heart and quality of opposition. No way does PBF come close to Pac in this latter regard, although he is in a position to make some truly challenging fights.

CC 93, bcollins. This is what I was hoping to get in response to my questions (i.e., a well-reasoned response). I can definitely see where you're coming from. I just can't get past the idea that if you put PBF and Pacman in a ring together, both weighing 145 when they stepped in (close to what they both weighed in their last fights), PBF would dominate. That may go to the question of what "p4p" means, and our difference of opinion/criteria on that--but either way, it's just too much for me to swallow. I do agree that, of the marquee fighters, Pac's had the toughest competition in the past 3-4 years (aside from Jermain Taylor, whom I don't like to watch, but who IMO takes the cake on that measure).

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Originally Posted by shza

CC 93, bcollins. This is what I was hoping to get in response to my questions (i.e., a well-reasoned response). I can definitely see where you're coming from. I just can't get past the idea that if you put PBF and Pacman in a ring together, both weighing 145 when they stepped in (close to what they both weighed in their last fights), PBF would dominate. That may go to the question of what "p4p" means, and our difference of opinion/criteria on that--but either way, it's just too much for me to swallow. I do agree that, of the marquee fighters, Pac's had the toughest competition in the past 3-4 years (aside from Jermain Taylor, whom I don't like to watch, but who IMO takes the cake on that measure).

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:coolclick: right back. I think the hypothetical matchup between the two would be an interesting one, no doubt. I think that, had Floyd stayed at lightweight or super featherweight, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. PBF vs the likes of MAB, Morales, JMM, and Pacquiao would have silenced any "quality of opposition" issues. I honestly don't know who I would favor in some of those matchups!

As of March the 22nd, 2007 here's where we stand.

Saddo's Official P4P Rankings:

1: Manny "the Destroyer" Pacquiao
2: "Pretty Boy" Floyd Mayweather
3: Ronald "Winky" Wright
4: Juan Manuel "Dinamita" Marquez
5: Bernard "the Executioner" Hopkins

It's currently a close race between Manny & Floyd...but Manny's edging it right now.

April 17th is the ending date...so post your arguements & your votes...as we continue.

Following this we will then vote the Final Five.

Cheers & koneecheewah bitches.

@ this moment:

Mayweather
Pacquiao
R. Marquez
J. Marquez
Wright

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

To those who have Vic Darchinyan in the Top 5, please let me know what kind of weed you've been smoking, because I want to get my hands on some...

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Haha they're doin a lot more then coosh if they have Vic up there. I personally laugh everytime I see him fight because he looks like a chicken with his head cocked back ready to peck. Honestly, why the hell does his elbow stick out like that?

Anyways...time for my valuable input 8)

1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Winky Wright

I think those are still locks. The argument can be made for Rafa but honestly I don't think so, not yet. So that being said....

4. Rafael Marquez
5. Jermain Taylor

JMM slips in at 7 or 6, I could even see him at 5. But as of right now JT holds 2 victories and a draw over top P4P guys and as contreversial as they all may be, you have to reward him with number 5 at least.

What has Manny done since the last time these rankings were revamped to surpass Floyd? Beat a past it Morales? Unless you're saying that Marquez victory helps his strength of opponents I really don't see how Pacquiao all of the sudden jumps ahead of Mayweather.

Use your veto power Wacko ;)

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Originally Posted by amat

What has Manny done since the last time these rankings were revamped to surpass Floyd? Beat a past it Morales? Unless you're saying that Marquez victory helps his strength of opponents I really don't see how Pacquiao all of the sudden jumps ahead of Mayweather.

Use your veto power Wacko ;)

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we should have a thread about who has jump ship from pbf to pac, i know i've always had pac ahead of pbf, but pac is ahead of pbf now well atleast for now on our saddo list and i think we should have some peeps explain why they have jump ship voting pbf then and now voting pac as #1 p4p.

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Originally Posted by BoxingGod

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Originally Posted by amat

What has Manny done since the last time these rankings were revamped to surpass Floyd? Beat a past it Morales? Unless you're saying that Marquez victory helps his strength of opponents I really don't see how Pacquiao all of the sudden jumps ahead of Mayweather.

Use your veto power Wacko ;)

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we should have a thread about who has jump ship from pbf to pac, i know i've always had pac ahead of pbf, but pac is ahead of pbf now well atleast for now on our saddo list and i think we should have some peeps explain why they have jump ship voting pbf then and now voting pac as #1 p4p.

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Not everything is a conspiracy involving Pacquiao.

Wev'e got some new members that have also had their say in it.

Be that as it may...this is the forum's list...so whatever the poll states is how it all ends in the end.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by BoxingGod

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Originally Posted by amat

What has Manny done since the last time these rankings were revamped to surpass Floyd? Beat a past it Morales? Unless you're saying that Marquez victory helps his strength of opponents I really don't see how Pacquiao all of the sudden jumps ahead of Mayweather.

Use your veto power Wacko ;)

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we should have a thread about who has jump ship from pbf to pac, i know i've always had pac ahead of pbf, but pac is ahead of pbf now well atleast for now on our saddo list and i think we should have some peeps explain why they have jump ship voting pbf then and now voting pac as #1 p4p.

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Not everything is a conspiracy involving Pacquiao.

Wev'e got some new members that have also had their say in it.

Be that as it may...this is the forum's list...so whatever the poll states is how it all ends in the end.

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I guess that explains it with the new members it's just funny that 3 months ago Pac was voted second and neither fighters have done anything yet he jumps ahead of him. I didn't realize it was all in the votes.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by BoxingGod

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Originally Posted by amat

What has Manny done since the last time these rankings were revamped to surpass Floyd? Beat a past it Morales? Unless you're saying that Marquez victory helps his strength of opponents I really don't see how Pacquiao all of the sudden jumps ahead of Mayweather.

Use your veto power Wacko ;)

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we should have a thread about who has jump ship from pbf to pac, i know i've always had pac ahead of pbf, but pac is ahead of pbf now well atleast for now on our saddo list and i think we should have some peeps explain why they have jump ship voting pbf then and now voting pac as #1 p4p.

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Not everything is a conspiracy involving Pacquiao.

Wev'e got some new members that have also had their say in it.

Be that as it may...this is the forum's list...so whatever the poll states is how it all ends in the end.

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Wacko, are you just going by the numbers, or are you correlating in what people have written on this thread? If it's just the numbers, then all they show is that more people think Manny is somewhere in the top 5 than think PBF is somewhere in the top five. Don't we need to have another round of voting, where we vote among the five that are in the top five, and rank-order them? I wouldn't be surprised if we then saw a slightly different result.

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by BoxingGod

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Originally Posted by amat

What has Manny done since the last time these rankings were revamped to surpass Floyd? Beat a past it Morales? Unless you're saying that Marquez victory helps his strength of opponents I really don't see how Pacquiao all of the sudden jumps ahead of Mayweather.

Use your veto power Wacko ;)

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we should have a thread about who has jump ship from pbf to pac, i know i've always had pac ahead of pbf, but pac is ahead of pbf now well atleast for now on our saddo list and i think we should have some peeps explain why they have jump ship voting pbf then and now voting pac as #1 p4p.

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Not everything is a conspiracy involving Pacquiao.

Wev'e got some new members that have also had their say in it.

Be that as it may...this is the forum's list...so whatever the poll states is how it all ends in the end.

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Wacko, are you just going by the numbers, or are you correlating in what people have written on this thread? If it's just the numbers, then all they show is that more people think Manny is somewhere in the top 5 than think PBF is somewhere in the top five. Don't we need to have another round of voting, where we vote among the five that are in the top five, and rank-order them? I wouldn't be surprised if we then saw a slightly different result.

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yea this is really proving more people are voting pac in the top five then people voting pbf. its not really voting who gets #1 spot p4p. its just people voting the first five, right?

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by BoxingGod

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Originally Posted by amat

What has Manny done since the last time these rankings were revamped to surpass Floyd? Beat a past it Morales? Unless you're saying that Marquez victory helps his strength of opponents I really don't see how Pacquiao all of the sudden jumps ahead of Mayweather.

Use your veto power Wacko ;)

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we should have a thread about who has jump ship from pbf to pac, i know i've always had pac ahead of pbf, but pac is ahead of pbf now well atleast for now on our saddo list and i think we should have some peeps explain why they have jump ship voting pbf then and now voting pac as #1 p4p.

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Not everything is a conspiracy involving Pacquiao.

Wev'e got some new members that have also had their say in it.

Be that as it may...this is the forum's list...so whatever the poll states is how it all ends in the end.

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I guess that explains it with the new members it's just funny that 3 months ago Pac was voted second and neither fighters have done anything yet he jumps ahead of him. I didn't realize it was all in the votes.

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yea 3 months ago pbf was ahead but pac seems to be holding on to the lead which is interesting to me, WACKO are you saying its just because of new members voting pac and dismissing the thought that maybe old members has switch to voting pac, if so don't you think it'll be interesting to hear their thoughts why they made the switch???

hopefully if some of our old members has made the switch they'd come forward and have some explaining to do. but that may not be the case because this is like voting just who thinks deserves to be in the top five NOT who deserves the top spot 1# p4p....right?

I think that after this top five voting we should vote on the order of this top five. I think that would make it more specific.

1, Floyd Mayweather
2, Rafael Marquez
3, Manny Pacquioa
4, Ronald Wright
5, Joel Casamayor

How does Pacman have more votes than PBF... Such fanboy stuff, do people honestly think he's a better p4p fighter, or that he'd win if they were the same size ???

1.Mayweather
2.Pacman
3.Winky
4.Taylor
5.JMM

1: Mayweather
2: Wladimir
3: Chris John
4: Kessler
5: Lacy

:lolhaha:

Kittens mate Kittens ;D

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Originally Posted by Elephant Beer

1: Mayweather
2: Wladimir
3: Chris John
4: Kessler
5: Lacy

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1. agree
2. I could see maybe after beating Briggs or something coming in at #10
But #2 now... No way...
3. You are out of your mind
4. ;D
5. :-X

Alright then heres me list;

1. PBF
2. Winkus Maximus
3. Pac-Man
4. JMM
5. R.Marquez


This right below makes me cringe.... :-\ Whoever voted for Pongsaklek this isn't funny. >:mad

Pongsaklek Wonjongkam 2 (0.6%) :throwup:
Wladimir Klitschko 10 (2.8%) - Lyle!! ;D
Miguel Cotto 14 (3.9%) I'm a Cotto fan but top 5?
Mikkell Kessler 7 (1.9%) - ;D
Joe Calzaghe 18 (5%) - :-X
Vic Darchinyan 4 (1.1%) - :lolhaha:
Oscar De La Hoya 5 (1.4%) - I sware it wasn't me.
Nickolay Valuev 1 (0.3%) -I guess landmine950 is back ???

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Nickolay Valuev 1 (0.3%) -I guess landmine950 is back ???

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hahaha i was thinking the same thing,

Pongsaklek Wonjongkam getting two votes is crazy, doode being on the voting list is weird enough but two votes?thats twice as much as valuev, landmine must be piss as fwck ahah

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Originally Posted by BoxingGod

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Nickolay Valuev 1 (0.3%) -I guess landmine950 is back ???

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hahaha i was thinking the same thing,

Pongsaklek Wonjongkam getting two votes is crazy, doode being on the voting list is weird enough but two votes?thats twice as much as valuev, landmine must be piss as fwck ahah

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;D

Why wouldn't Pongslakek be on the list? He's the only guy in the division who's faced legit opposition time in and time out and is the rare example of a guy who has really earned his strap and isn't just carrying three alphabet letters on his chest. Probably the best Thai fighter out there right now, it's a shame Arce ducked him for so long >:mad











:throwup:

1.PBF 2.W.Klitschko 3.J.Calzaghe 4.Pac-Man 5.Mikkel Kessler 8)

1) PBF
2) Winky
3) PAC
4) Rafa Marquez
5) I put Kessler, but have him tied with Calzaghe and Jermain Taylor.

1:Floyd Mayweather
2:Bernard Hopkins
3:Oscar De La Hoya
4:Mikkel Kessler
5:Joe Calzaghe

Again...Vic Darchinyan :-\ :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Again...Vic Darchinyan :-\ :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

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Sorry bro, I'm sticking with him, cause if you sent him through some sort of Star Trek beaming thingy that scaled him up to most of the others there, and in the flat of the lb for lb ring, I reckon he would beat most of the bigger guys. By the definition of comparing someone lb for lb the smaller you are the better you're going to compare.

And if you're looking for people who shouldn't be there:

B-Hop, ODLH, Klitschko and definitely Valuev.

Interesting - sounds like a lot of you base p4p rankings on how each man would perform at a certain weight. But that's difficult! I mean, if PBF were a heavyweight - 220 or so - do you think he'd still have the same handspeed and reflexes? So it's difficult to compare a lightweight fighter against a heavyweight fighter just on the argument "how would they fare against one another at the same weight". So many of the attributes that define certain fighters would not hold up under the "transformation" to a different weight.

Sounds like a flawed way to judge p4p, but, my opinion isn't much ;)

That's why I look at skill, heart, and COMPETITION! These things are completely independent of weight.

My top 5 p4p:

1. PBF - who can beat him? who's even come close (aside from the 1st Castillo fight, which I think PBF won, but it was very close)?
2. Winky - such a long and storied career of travelling into the backyards of world-class opponents and beating them in front of their own fans... He should also be the undisputed MW Champ if it wasn't for another one of Jermaine Taylors infamous home-cooked decisions.
3. Pacman - explosive power in both hands these days, an absolute wrecking ball in his division.
4. B-Hop - In his 40s, after two very controversial losses, comes out of retirement, moves up to 175 and beats the recognised LHW champ, not to mention beating Jermaine Taylor at least once - even if the judges didn't think so, everyone else does.
5. Casamayor - You could make an argument that he should be 38 - 0, though to be fair I never saw the Raiymkulov fight (or the Freitas fight for that matter). I actually voted for JMM, but upon reflection I have changed my mind... I'd put him at #6.... after years of being underrated I actually think he's overrated at this point... Beating Barrera was a good victory, but I think a younger MAB would have beat him convincingly.

Pacquaio
Mayweather
JMM
Taylor
Coto

Don't disagree