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I understand where you are coming from when you say you cant negotiate with terroists but you got to try.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
Coz if you dont at least try then people will die,if you try there is a chance of a peacefull solution .
If it came to the crunch air strikes could be used to stop nuclear development,Isrial did it to Iraq in the early 80s.
CC for a good debate.
again, whether you were military or not is irrelevant to my point. I mean no disrespect. My point is we as the west assumes that these other nations think like us. we blame ourselves for everything. You yourself have been dropping critiques against past American actions without once mentioning what the Iranians have done. You have proven my point. There is no fight left in us for some reason.
Let me take the debate in another direction. If the Iranians try and convict the troops and sentence them to jail, then what?
make their whole F*cking country a big sheet of glass.....it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission...these douchebags(Iran) have been pushing buttons long enough....F*CK THEM!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky
Good question .Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_Dog
Unfortunately thats not up to us to decide all this sabre rattling is just Irans childlike way of opening dialouge !!
Global brinkmanship call it waht you will but Iran will release these hostages or face some pretty dire consequnces they know that , they've tried it before .
People on both sides will be talking unofficially its alot like Kruschev and Kennedy at the height of the Cuban Missile crisis it escalated to a stupid deegree neither side wanted to go to war ( who would ) and whilst Kenny ANd Kruschev had no official dialouge in the end it was Kruschev who broke 1st .
How ? A known American Actor working for the CIA in Moscow made a toast to world peace after a show to Kruschev , Kruschev made a speech in front of some assembled media it was very much unofficial and off the cuff but was a clear olive branch to Kennedy .
Kruschev was known to hate the Theatre and had not attended the Theatre all year , pretty funny time to want to backstage and met a gay American Jewish actor wouldnt you say ?
BTW what you wrote about Europe about the feminization of Europe and the Uk was absuloutley spot on !!!
But you've also got to Understand that the world is a vastly different place and unfortunately Naughty boys like Iran and North Korea cant be bought into line with harsh words and threatening stances
Iran and Korea know that the chances of America taking the piss and invading are pretty remote so they tease them on the world stage but taking British hostages , Iran knows the UK has niether the resources nor the will for another full on tear up !!
Its a waiting game who blinks 1st the Iranian President will be engineering this in such a way to make him look good and weaken the outside world in the eyes of his own people .
Id say those Sailors chances of being Beheaded or Imprisoned for any length of time are next to naught .
Quick trial full of pomp and humilation followed by a well publicised deportation .
Iran has too much to lose .
Hypothetical questions:-
How would we feel about a boat load of foreign army personel floating 0.5 miles from our coast?
Would we act any different if Iran was populated with Christians / Catholics ?
It just seems like sometimes we're the oppressors in all this - also the common people of these countries dont want any trouble, it seems to be a select few in goverment.
Remember bombs cost money - and if i recall, Maggie Thatcher was brokering arms deals to Saddam for him to use on Iran in the first place :-\
was it .5 miles?Quote:
Originally Posted by G0MEZ
as far as the second question, we did not care of anyone's religion when Germany was defeated.
anyways my brothas I am done. we each are entitled to our opinions even though I am always right and you all have to live with my brilliance.
in short, I would like to thank my mother and father for being born. God bless you all. This would not be possible if it wasnt for you fans.
You don't hear Muslim leaders denouncing Terrorism . I find that a very disturbing . say you have a rogue radicalChristiangroup that blows up an abortion clinic.. within minutes Christian leaders from around the world are on T.V denouncing those people calling them criminals and unholy. you don't hear the same from Muslim leaders on Terrorism , I find their silence speaks volumes, you want to cut to the thick of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by G0MEZ
they aren't all terrorists, they had half a dozen nutters on the telly saying execute them the other people they spoke to kinda shrugged their shoulders and said, it happens, they apologize and let them go, most of the people aren't that fussed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
It's like thinking all of america thinks like george bush.
Actually let me see 25 years ago, Falklands saved Maggie from an election kicking, Iran/Blair posturing, elections in May?
the majority people are good people no doubt .. hell I have a good friend who is Iranian.... the government leadership however is terrorist in nature. a bad bunch that needs to be dealt with.. I think the majority of the people would like to topple that regime.. why not give them some assistance? By the way nothing beat good hot Iranian Tea.. With sugar cubes.. A real treat to the taste bud .Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
the iranians would be a lot more dangerous to mess with than the rag heads in afghanistan. it is quite scary stuff if we to go to war with iran.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_Dog
Like I have already said,if military action has to be taken,so be it.
I don't really think so....I mean they are all Shi'ites and the Army is under control of the Ayahtollah's and not Ahminijad. They have a big army but by the time we're done bombing them they won't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out ofQuote:
Originally Posted by jbirdy
That being said there have been some positive changes in the hostage situation so far today as reported out of Tehran
This is just one big hate-stirring propaganda. >:mad
The Middle East and her minor factions are slowly galvanising.
Her resistance to the west is growing. Britain has an Iranian finger down its throat and is gagging hard! :o
That’s how I feel, can't really put it any better unfortunately, very very pissed at the world today :-\ :-\
I hate Money, I hate religion. Man made them both up in his head the stupid, self-destructive barstard! >:mad
well their government is mixed left/right wing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
They may like to get rid of them but don't think they want us or anyone sticking our beak in to things. How would we react if some foreign power came over got rid of Blair (that bit's not so bad) but then put their idea of a leader in his place, we'd be pissed of at that.
They are starting to take the piss now i think,flaunting them on tv etc.
Will we take the bait?
....they don't have jobs or anything to do over there.....they are just habitual pot stirrers!
But don't be fooled by the idiots on American tv saying "we wouldn't attack".....That is BULLCRAP, we'll attack even if it's only me in a rowboat with a shotgun!!!!
I am so sick of American TV....CNN, Fox News, .....the only good stuff on is sports!!!! The news is so full of wimps it's ridiculous!
We live in a free society ,, And we take it for granted every day.. Huge difference in Blair and Ahmuduwhateverthefuck. ..people will kill in a heart beat for a taste of freedom, make no mistake . People don’t like being ruled by an iron fist !Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
And the woman have no rights at all..
Hell maybe the got something there,? Your right they aint all bad ! ;D ( that was supposed to be a funny )
I was talking with a western woman who lives in Cairo, don't think all the women are downtroden, yes their rights are shot to shit but, most don't work nor do they want to, it's boiling hot, the men work, the women potter about the house & gossip, who wants to work when it 53degees?
Camels
....ummmm the women in Egypt aren't as bad off as those in Iran, Iraq, Syria, and so on......and there neither the men nor the women have jobs and all they do is protest!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
and that report from our middle east correspondent.
Let America try to bomb Iran and see if there are no consequences. I'm sick and fwocking tired of America sticking it's nose where it is not wanted. I don't like Iran much but they captured these soldiers just as any other country would capture any other soldiers it found snooping in or around their waters. Bitain would do the same.
And women don't have any rights there but what the fuck makes you all high and righteous that you can decide oh lets bomb that place,kill thousands of innocents,practically ruin a country and then fuck off again. And why does America not clean up countries like China,with their appaling human rights record or countries like Saudi Arabia where women have rights to drive only in certain areas and other ludicrous and ridiculous rules.
Look at Iraq. America cannot even clean out a country with a bunch of ragtag poorly trained fighters who make up the resistance. America is equipped with superior military power,almost unlimited finances and STIll cannot control the country. They've ruined it. And troops are committing suicide at unprecedented levels.
You all talk as if you know what happens in these countries based on what you read in the newspapers etc. All of a sudden youre experts and know the solutions..let's go and bomb them. That'll help. WHat fwocking bullshit.
Oh right,so you know all mulsim leaders do you and you know each and every response? And not 1 single one denounces terrorism? And America dropping bomb after bomb on Iraq is not terrorism? WTF!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
El Gamo proved my point, just like I said, (and he wasn't the only one, others have done the same)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_Dog
he self-analyzes about his culture's fault and empathizes with the side that wants to kill him. and the only time he says anything negative is about America. While he is sick and tired of America, Iranians are shouting "Death to Britain" on the streets of Tehran. That he does not care about. They are in the process of internationally effing you England and they are making you call them Daddy. In the end you will thank them for their kindness. In the mean time El Gamo and others who think like him are planning marches against America. Daddy Iran has called you out El Gamo, but you rather talk shiot on your friends.
Missy Egypt doesn't harbor terrorists and they have come a loooooong way since their fighting with Israel.
El Gamo I guess if it was up to you America would just sit at home and let people walk all over us.....if America does nothing in certain situations then everyone is shit out of luck.
Yeah sometimes America is a little nosey but if we just kept to ourselves then people would call us even more selfish because we have the power to help people and it's not going to help EVERYONE....there is no possible way to do that, but we can try to help people and maybe it makes some people feel a little better.
As for "terrorism"....America DECLARED WAR and America has SOLDIERS and America does a better job than most anyone else as far as following the Geneva Convention.
WE don't cut innocent people's heads off!!!
america, fuck yeah. comin down to save the mother fuckin day yeah!! ;D
;DQuote:
Originally Posted by jbirdy
Let me clarify what I hoped would happen.
I am looking for not only Brits but Westerners in general to have righteous anger over this occurence. For Brits to show their anger in front of the Iranian Embassy. For the nation to loudly voice their disdain for this action.
but all we do is check first where we are to blame and of course as time permits, we blame America (there is always time to do that). But Iran is getting a pass.
I wish that Iran would face a consquence that would hurt them ( not necessarily a military action) that the next time they would say hey wait a minute, let's not rile up the British Lion, he just might bite back. Instead, now they have seen how weak the British Lion reacts and they will not even think twice when the next time happens.
see sorted out with anyone being bombed.
Ahmadinejad : This pardon is a gift to the British people.
::**
After humiliating the blokes on TV for a weeks.. ??
It's just rhetoric. they kidnap British soldiers. Hold them and humiliate then.. then Release them ,, and come off as heroes?? Such bullshit.. Only simple minded folks would buy into that bullshit..
I watched that dope from Iran speaking live on BBC America this morning. I thought it was pretty funny when they gave two military guys the medal of honor for capturing the British troops. What was it? One boat surrounded by 10 Iranian gunboats? Pretty low standards for heroism. The only person that should pay the price is the lousy Iranian tv interpreter who should be beheaded. She was absolutely awful.
....no one cares it shouldn't have happened in the first place???Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Iran is a HABITUAL POT STIRRER....they stir the pot, they see how far they can push us and then they back down......SOMETIMES
No one remember the 1980 US Hostages???
It's idiots like Nancy Pelosi and ....MISSY( I won't do that to you)!!!!! Who think that everything that can be solved with diplomacy....yeah SOME THINGS can be solved like that but not with muslims!!!! They have kept on trying to fuck the west since the Crusades and now someone needs to either correct their point of views to be more consistant with regular people or we need to break a foot off in their ass!!!
I'm not "self analysing". LMAO,I'm not planning any type of march,I probably dislike Iran more than you but then again,they aren't going around bombing countries,starting wars,causing huge amounts of innocent lives to be lost. Let them shout death to Britain,it's not as if they are going to do anything about it are they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_Dog
Man,go stick the Geneva convention up someones ass. I don't give a rats ass about BS like that,it means nothing. The UN,the EU,and all these other micky mouse organisations are like the WBA,THE WBO,all BS,all puppets.Useless,mindless robots,programmed to carry out work for a higer power. Yeah,if America didn't stick its nose in,may be Iraq would still be under dictatorship,but may be Iraqis would feel safer than they do now,there would be no insurgency and the anti western flames which are spinning and growing in the MID East would not have the fuel it has.Iraqi's honour would not be tarnished by having foreign troops on their land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
And now they have freed the troops..... ::** ::** ::** ::** ::** All the big hoo ha is done....
Although,P4P,Ahmedijenad is one of the worstmmost uneducated idiots out there!!
to be fair yeah iraq would still be under sadam's regime but the vast majority of iraqi's feel a lot safer and are a lot better off even now in the mess that is iraq. they have the foundations of their own democratic government now and saddam was a ruthless fookin loonatic that the world and especially iraq is much better off without. the reasons for going to war may not be as sincere as we would like but the truth of the matter is that iraq is better off now and 9 out of 10 iraqi's are happy about coalition forces being present.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
#1 Ahminijad acted like he did yall a favor......when in all actuality the sailors should have never been caught anywaysQuote:
Originally Posted by Missy
#2 They also added insult to injury by dressing your guys up like Borat before sending them back!!!!
that quote got me a bit tickled . :laugh: fukin Borat.. LOL .. funny movie that.. not for the faint hearted ! :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
....but don't they look like him???
spot on mate ... :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
you know politics is funny with me Lyle.. I am a democrat on many issues. , but when it comes to a strong military I am Republican to the bone. I hate weakness, it makes my dick itch ! and Democrats are weak as shit on military.. The U.S is strapped cause of all the Clinton fuck all back when ..cutting military spending and such. does not look good in the future either, outside of Military views the republicans are a bit too hard line for me. can't stand that guy on fox..."the o rieely factor" .. he is such an arrogant cunt aint he ?
There are a lot of arrogant cunts in politics....but the ignorant people assume that the only arrogant cunts are republicans, when in actuality there are leftists that are just plain idiotic in their idealism.
I believe there is a middle ground on a lot of issues but when it comes to some country taking your troops which posed no threat and holding them basically for ransom, I am no softy! I figure England posed no threat to Iran, 15 sailors didn't mean anythign and they just used them to posture and grandstand and feed propaganda to their citizens.......which is why I suggested a very strong action taken against Iran to show the Mullahs and Ayatollah Kohmenie (sp?) that their citizens will only hate them for capturing INNOCENT troops.
Yes we are dependant on oil....for now. I am all for making cheap fuel and I think that is possible but let's take a second and realize that the Middle East would just be a dessert with a whole bunch of camel jockeys out there if it weren't for the money AND the technology of the western world!!!!
And here is a list of right and left wing idiots
Rush Limbaugh (he makes SOME good points but the 'us against them' nature of his arguments is very noticeable)
Anne Coulter......I'd still fuck her but she's a hardline bitch
Bill O'Riley (jackass)
Sean Hannity (jackass)
now the left
Allan Comes (giant pussy)
Janeane Garafolo (dumb cunt)
Al Franken (pussy)
Randi Rhodes (dumb cunt)
Rachel Maddow (dumb dyke)
Rosie O'Donnell (Dumb bull dyke)
I try not to think of myself as a Republican anymore....yes I do appreciate their views but I do not agree with 100% of their views and I know very few who do agree to theirs or the Democrat views.
I feel that there is ALWAYS a middle ground and you should ALWAYS at least consider other means of getting things accomplished. But then again it is easy to say these things, it is a lot harder to lead a country....I do know that if a COMMON GOAL is set for both the Democrats and Republicans everyone will be happier because we are working to achieve something together and politics will not play a part in it.
I support sending more troops to Iraq because we owe it to those people living there to stablize their government.....I don't support the Democrats right now because:
#1 They say "it's not worth 1 more drop of American blood"....but they set the pull out date at 2008....too far away
#2 they shy away from the sense of responsibility that led us into places like Somalia and Bosnia
#3 They make getting out of Iraq a POLITICAL STATEMENT......listen, only soldiers and military leaders like war and being in war is no picnic but sometimes the lives we lose are worth it in the long run
I am also of the belief that if duality in belief was created by man (as says The Bible, The Torah, The Q'ran) then world peace will never be an option. Because if you think of it on an individual basis then that would be like you loving everyone and everyone loving you, but then that means if everyone loves you then you have to measure how much and then compare them and chances are someone will love you less than someone else and without hate, that loving less becomes HATE because there is no other option. That being said, people will always hate each other, it is only the way in which we hate that we can change.
End of rant