How Would Ali Have Done In 90s

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Originally Posted by Memphis

Possibly ;D

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Well you can never tell Memphis with a guy like Ali who has one of biggest hearts ever in boxing and granite chin remember Ali wasn't that small he was up to 220s in some fights and he was 6 foot 3

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Ali lost to Norton & Fraizer.
Holy lost to Bowe, Moorer, Lewis :( (for the sake of the debate I wont include Ruiz & Byrd since some people will say Holy was past his best)
Lennox lost to McCall & Rahman :(

Am I missing something ???


And I won't even bother with Bowe, Morrison & Mercers records cause they couldn't carry Alis sweat towel IMO.

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And Ali didnt get off a punch against Holmes and lost to Spinks, Berbick when he was past it...

Ali was Great but he aint perfect... Holy has all the heart of Frazier and more.... As I ponder this even more I believe Lewis could beat Ali... Lewis may have lost to those 2 guys but he beat there azzes the 2nd time around

Speed wasn't a prob for Lewis...In fact he could do the 100 metres in 10secs

He'd of had NO PROBLEM catching Ali with the perfect shot, at the perfect time and getting the perfect result. Fact! ;)

I think he would have been the best boxer of the 90's. But I also think Lewis or Holyfield would have sorted him out. Morrison & Tyson would have had a punchers chance and that's about it.

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Ali lost to Norton & Fraizer.
Holy lost to Bowe, Moorer, Lewis :( (for the sake of the debate I wont include Ruiz & Byrd since some people will say Holy was past his best)
Lennox lost to McCall & Rahman :(

Am I missing something ???


And I won't even bother with Bowe, Morrison & Mercers records cause they couldn't carry Alis sweat towel IMO.

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And Ali didnt get off a punch against Holmes and lost to Spinks, Berbick when he was past it...

Ali was Great but he aint perfect... Holy has all the heart of Frazier and more.... As I ponder this even more I believe Lewis could beat Ali... Lewis may have lost to those 2 guys but he beat there azzes the 2nd time around

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Aww come on Jt you and i know both know Ali had brain damage by that time Holy has ton of heart but he isn't as quick as Ali remember Jt that Holyfield only beat old Larry holmes by 7 rounds to with Holyfield losing last 3 rounds and Lewis well good fighter but i have already give my reasons why i think he would lose because he allows smaller men to out jab him and his chin is bit suspect.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Speed wasn't a prob for Lewis...In fact he could do the 100 metres in 10secs

He'd of had NO PROBLEM catching Ali with the perfect shot, at the perfect time and getting the perfect result. Fact! ;)

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Sorry mate but i don't believe that at all and Lewis wasn't that quick didn't he allow Bruno to out jab him for 7 rounds ?? and Bruno was quite slow and as American sportwriters said about Bruno slow robotic wasn't it ??

Joe Frazier called Frank a robot, everyone knows Frazier was a bum though.

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Originally Posted by Memphis

Joe Frazier called Frank a robot, everyone knows Frazier was a bum though.

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Oh yea Frazier was a bum ::** come on Memphis ;D

This opinion about how Ali would do is in no way shape or form a discredit to his greatness......and btw I hate how I have to say that before I explain myself ONLY for Ali....not for Louis or Marciano or anyone else!!!!


Lewis: Lennox would be tough for Ali...not just because of his size either...Lewis was a very smart and athletic fighter. Lewis 6'5 245 roughly vs Ali 6'3 225...it would be very tough to call seeing how Ali struggled with fighters like Ken Norton.

Tyson: Mike Tyson would NEVER EVER EVER EVER............EVER beat Muhammed Ali. Doesn't matter if it's the Ali that fought Foreman vs the Tyson that thumped Larry Holmes....or any other pairing other than VERY old Ali vs a 1986-1996 Tyson he could still punch after '89, but only one punch at a time.

Bowe: EXTREMELY difficult fight to win for ANYONE EVER! Bowe was athletic and powerful and he was just a bigger badder and better than Sonny Liston. Ali would definantly have THE MOST TROUBLE with 1990's Riddick Bowe.

Holyfield: Another very difficult fight for anyone in the 90's....however Evander got hit a ton and as fast as Ali's hands were and as adept at moving as he was and let's not forget Ali never really ever got cut.....hard fought UD for Ali.

Rudduck: can you say ASS WHUPPIN? Rudduck could only throw power shots and really didn't do well on defense.

Morrison: It would be like the Jerry Quarry fights......Tommy either gets cut to shreds or just flat out outboxed.

Golota: hahahahaha.....Ali would actually have a little trouble with the "Foul Pole". In all seriousness the way to have an easy time with Golota is to blast him out early and the only guy who got Ali riled up enough to do that (Sonny Liston in the rematch) obviously didn't want to even fight Ali. Ali would win this by UD or Golota would quit or get dq'd

Moorer: Ali would really mess MM up...Michael was good in the 90's, good enough to beat a Prime Holyfield but he had a huge disadvantage in a hypothetical matchup vs Ali.......he was easily rattled mentally

Foreman: Well I don't know if Ali would KO him but he sure would beat him.

Mercer: A tough fight but one Ali would win because of his tenacity.

McCall: EASY WIN

Briggs: Ali would give Shannon another asthma attack

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Originally Posted by Lyle

This opinion about how Ali would do is in no way shape or form a discredit to his greatness......and btw I hate how I have to say that before I explain myself ONLY for Ali....not for Louis or Marciano or anyone else!!!!


Lewis: Lennox would be tough for Ali...not just because of his size either...Lewis was a very smart and athletic fighter. Lewis 6'5 245 roughly vs Ali 6'3 225...it would be very tough to call seeing how Ali struggled with fighters like Ken Norton.

Tyson: Mike Tyson would NEVER EVER EVER EVER............EVER beat Muhammed Ali. Doesn't matter if it's the Ali that fought Foreman vs the Tyson that thumped Larry Holmes....or any other pairing other than VERY old Ali vs a 1986-1996 Tyson he could still punch after '89, but only one punch at a time.

Bowe: EXTREMELY difficult fight to win for ANYONE EVER! Bowe was athletic and powerful and he was just a bigger badder and better than Sonny Liston. Ali would definantly have THE MOST TROUBLE with 1990's Riddick Bowe.

Holyfield: Another very difficult fight for anyone in the 90's....however Evander got hit a ton and as fast as Ali's hands were and as adept at moving as he was and let's not forget Ali never really ever got cut.....hard fought UD for Ali.

Rudduck: can you say a** WHUPPIN? Rudduck could only throw power shots and really didn't do well on defense.

Morrison: It would be like the Jerry Quarry fights......Tommy either gets cut to shreds or just flat out outboxed.

Golota: hahahahaha.....Ali would actually have a little trouble with the "Foul Pole". In all seriousness the way to have an easy time with Golota is to blast him out early and the only guy who got Ali riled up enough to do that (Sonny Liston in the rematch) obviously didn't want to even fight Ali. Ali would win this by UD or Golota would quit or get dq'd

Moorer: Ali would really mess MM up...Michael was good in the 90's, good enough to beat a Prime Holyfield but he had a huge disadvantage in a hypothetical matchup vs Ali.......he was easily rattled mentally

Foreman: Well I don't know if Ali would KO him but he sure would beat him.

Mercer: A tough fight but one Ali would win because of his tenacity.

McCall: EASY WIN

Briggs: Ali would give Shannon another asthma attack

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Not bad way of looking at it mate have :coolclick: for effort but i think Lewis would be hardest not Bowe because Bowe wasn't that great when people fought him on outside remember Holyfield vs Bowe 2 and remember that Tony Tubbs outboxed him but still would be hard for Ali but not quite as hard as some think and as for you saying about Ken Norton that was due to his weird style bro because no one had style like Norton it confused Ali only other hws who had sort of similar style to him was Witherspoon and Archie Moore.

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Originally Posted by Memphis

Holyfield would have beaten Ali the night Frazier did, Ali was a little shy on match practice and Holy would have been too persistant on that occasion.

Holyfield W15

;)

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I agree. ;D Memphis.

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Ali lost to Norton & Fraizer.
Holy lost to Bowe, Moorer, Lewis :( (for the sake of the debate I wont include Ruiz & Byrd since some people will say Holy was past his best)
Lennox lost to McCall & Rahman :(

Am I missing something ???


And I won't even bother with Bowe, Morrison & Mercers records cause they couldn't carry Alis sweat towel IMO.

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And Ali didnt get off a punch against Holmes and lost to Spinks, Berbick when he was past it...

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Thats why I didn't include the fighters losese past their best days. I put it in parenthesis.....

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Speed wasn't a prob for Lewis...In fact he could do the 100 metres in 10secs

He'd of had NO PROBLEM catching Ali with the perfect shot, at the perfect time and getting the perfect result. Fact! ;)

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Sorry mate but i don't believe that at all and Lewis wasn't that quick didn't he allow Bruno to out jab him for 7 rounds ?? and Bruno was quite slow and as American sportwriters said about Bruno slow robotic wasn't it ??

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Never.. EVER.. EVER.. EVER.. take any notice of American boxing writers unless they're writing solely about Americans (although thats pretty fair comment about Frank ;D).

I tell you a fighter from the 90s who had the speed and power to KO Ali....Herbie Hide!!! What a fight that would of been.

Herbie in 3, Ali would of never kept him off.

Fenster Lewis was not a fast runner no way, Plus he was terrified of speed I once saw a Cruiser in the gym bash him up after 2 rds with Lewis all over the place they pulled him out with Frank Maloney having a heart attack and the guy who did it was fast , but no Ali

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Fenster Lewis was not a fast runner no way, Plus he was terrified of speed I once saw a Cruiser in the gym bash him up after 2 rds with Lewis all over the place they pulled him out with Frank Maloney having a heart attack and the guy who did it was fast , but no Ali

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That's interesting, you know a fair bit was made about Lewis not fighting Byrd. I never really thought he avoided him but perhaps he did because of the speed?

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Fenster Lewis was not a fast runner no way, Plus he was terrified of speed I once saw a Cruiser in the gym bash him up after 2 rds with Lewis all over the place they pulled him out with Frank Maloney having a heart attack and the guy who did it was fast , but no Ali

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There you go Fenster heard it from the man himself can't argue with that 8)

Heres an honest answer, ali in his prime id say right about befor ehe went into exile that is would mos tlikley beat everyone on the list, he is one of the few fighters he could fight backing up and could do it against tyson, if tyson fought either a very young ali or th eolder version I think he could win as ali as a youth was a bit arrogant and could not carry his hands low against tyson and no staying on the ropes.. but provided he knew tyson and had seen him fight he would win, he would outbox bowe, he would outbox lewis without a doubt, holyfield actually would giv ehim a tougher fight as he most resembles ken norton in style no huge punch better boxing ability and certainly a greater chin than norrton, i jus think alis reach would be too much for him and hed get out jabbed. Ali beats him all he had the tools and the brains, thats the problem with mike never had it upstairs

Oh I know you uk guys are saying of course he picked the american to give him the toguhest fight but.. i have nothing but repsect for lewis he was a great fighter but stylistically against ali hed look bad, he has bad footwork and would look plodding slow and foolish in their, the same with bowe, holy is smaller more agile and doesnt hit like those guys but has better mobility and boxing ability.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Herbie in 3, Ali would of never kept him off.

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That's some sort of joke? Has to be.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Lyle

This opinion about how Ali would do is in no way shape or form a discredit to his greatness......and btw I hate how I have to say that before I explain myself ONLY for Ali....not for Louis or Marciano or anyone else!!!!


Lewis: Lennox would be tough for Ali...not just because of his size either...Lewis was a very smart and athletic fighter. Lewis 6'5 245 roughly vs Ali 6'3 225...it would be very tough to call seeing how Ali struggled with fighters like Ken Norton.

Tyson: Mike Tyson would NEVER EVER EVER EVER............EVER beat Muhammed Ali. Doesn't matter if it's the Ali that fought Foreman vs the Tyson that thumped Larry Holmes....or any other pairing other than VERY old Ali vs a 1986-1996 Tyson he could still punch after '89, but only one punch at a time.

Bowe: EXTREMELY difficult fight to win for ANYONE EVER! Bowe was athletic and powerful and he was just a bigger badder and better than Sonny Liston. Ali would definantly have THE MOST TROUBLE with 1990's Riddick Bowe.

Holyfield: Another very difficult fight for anyone in the 90's....however Evander got hit a ton and as fast as Ali's hands were and as adept at moving as he was and let's not forget Ali never really ever got cut.....hard fought UD for Ali.

Rudduck: can you say a** WHUPPIN? Rudduck could only throw power shots and really didn't do well on defense.

Morrison: It would be like the Jerry Quarry fights......Tommy either gets cut to shreds or just flat out outboxed.

Golota: hahahahaha.....Ali would actually have a little trouble with the "Foul Pole". In all seriousness the way to have an easy time with Golota is to blast him out early and the only guy who got Ali riled up enough to do that (Sonny Liston in the rematch) obviously didn't want to even fight Ali. Ali would win this by UD or Golota would quit or get dq'd

Moorer: Ali would really mess MM up...Michael was good in the 90's, good enough to beat a Prime Holyfield but he had a huge disadvantage in a hypothetical matchup vs Ali.......he was easily rattled mentally

Foreman: Well I don't know if Ali would KO him but he sure would beat him.

Mercer: A tough fight but one Ali would win because of his tenacity.

McCall: EASY WIN

Briggs: Ali would give Shannon another asthma attack

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Not bad way of looking at it mate have :coolclick: for effort but i think Lewis would be hardest not Bowe because Bowe wasn't that great when people fought him on outside remember Holyfield vs Bowe 2 and remember that Tony Tubbs outboxed him but still would be hard for Ali but not quite as hard as some think and as for you saying about Ken Norton that was due to his weird style bro because no one had style like Norton it confused Ali only other hws who had sort of similar style to him was Witherspoon and Archie Moore.

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I read/hear somewhere that Ali's style made Norton look better than he really was. By contantly moving backwards, Ali played right into Norton's strenghts. Like you said, Norton's style was just a bad matchup for Ali.

lyle i agree with all your pciks except that bowe would be a hard test hed look foolish in their, if foreman could go back in time and fight smart in his young body hed give ali the toughest time by far,

One guy who seems to be overlooked in all this as regards styles that would give Ali problems if fit Witherspoon

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Originally Posted by pacdog

lyle i agree with all your pciks except that bowe would be a hard test hed look foolish in their, if foreman could go back in time and fight smart in his young body hed give ali the toughest time by far,

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+1. 100%

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Originally Posted by Scrap

One guy who seems to be overlooked in all this as regards styles that would give Ali problems if fit Witherspoon

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Too lethargic IMO and would eat Alis jab all night.

I think something left out is that Ali's prime was spent in exile of the sport. We really only found out what a warrior spirit and determination along w/ a great chin Ali had when he came back b/c he wasn't as blazing fast anymore. All be it still pretty damn fast. Lewis and Bowes size and skill would pose issues but I think both lose UD. I think Ali would simply out work and out land them. Tyson would get TKO in 10. Evander would make a great fight with his hand speed and counter punching but would eventually tire and give away to many rounds.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

One guy who seems to be overlooked in all this as regards styles that would give Ali problems if fit Witherspoon

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Yea i said that mate the Witherspoon who fought Holmes would give Ali good arguement but would lose ud.

Very simular to Norton. Im not saying hed beat Ali With hindsight none of them would.I once saw Ali in Hyde Park Running in boots over half a mile he beat a guy riding a fucking horse

I can't quite work out this love affair people have with Lennox Lewis? He was an average HW champ in an average era. Ali 66-67 would have taken all of the guys mentioned to school. I don't think any of these guys would have beaten big George or Joe for that matter. Bowe and Lewis to slow and lumbering,
Tyson would have been a punching bag for Ali, as for Holyfield.. remember Bob Foster lost badly to both Ali and Frazier so i see no reason to believe he would have done any better.

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Originally Posted by pacdog

lyle i agree with all your pciks except that bowe would be a hard test hed look foolish in their, if foreman could go back in time and fight smart in his young body hed give ali the toughest time by far,

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If young Foreman had the brains of old Foreman you'd have the best fighter EVER!!!


Holyfield's heart and punch output would help him but his lack of defense would catch up with him in the later rounds.


Norton's defense sort of reminds me of James Toney....but coming forward and pressing the action instead of being fat and on the ropes

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

How would prime Ali have done in this era ill make few match ups and see if you agree

Lennox Lewis vs Ali = Ali outjab's Lewis and wins decision

Riddick Bowe vs Ali = Ali to quick on his feet and jab would give Bowe problems Ali wins decision

Ray Mercer vs Ali = Ali way way to quick for Mercer and wins comfortable decision

Mike Tyson vs Ali = Doesn't matter if its early 90s Tyson or late 90s Tyson Ali stops Tyson late

Evander Holyfield vs Ali = In good fight Ali wins decision but this fight would be bit harder than people expect

Tommy Morrison vs Ali = No doubt in my mind Ali stops Morrison in middle rounds

Oliver McCall vs Ali = Ali shuts out Oliver and wins one sided decision

Right i think i covered most of them do you guys and girls agree with this ??

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Ali Vs Holyfield has the makings of A great trilogy....2-1 Ali----

Tyson--Outboxed....He gives Ali trouble early even dropping him early...By the 5th Ali has him all figured out and easily outpoints him possibly stops him due to exaustion and frustration

Bowe---Decent fight but Bowe like Tyson gets frustrated and can not adapt to Ali and his changing style...To much dancing to much jabbing...On the inside Ali changes up and does a rope a dope

Morrison---Need I elaborate---Same for Mercer

Lennox Lewis--I give the brit the best chance out of them all...Lennox is tall and has long arms...Long enough to keep Ali at a distance when needed...Lewis had enough power to keep Ali honest...great fight and a pick em....I pick Ali 7 out of 10 times

I really think the power, accuracy, and size (not to mention athletic ability) of Lewis and Bowe would really give Ali some trouble.

I just think Lewis and Bowe would do more with the right cross than Tyson, Rudduck, or Morrison would do with the left hook

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

How would prime Ali have done in this era ill make few match ups and see if you agree

Lennox Lewis vs Ali = Ali outjab's Lewis and wins decision

Riddick Bowe vs Ali = Ali to quick on his feet and jab would give Bowe problems Ali wins decision

Ray Mercer vs Ali = Ali way way to quick for Mercer and wins comfortable decision

Mike Tyson vs Ali = Doesn't matter if its early 90s Tyson or late 90s Tyson Ali stops Tyson late

Evander Holyfield vs Ali = In good fight Ali wins decision but this fight would be bit harder than people expect

Tommy Morrison vs Ali = No doubt in my mind Ali stops Morrison in middle rounds

Oliver McCall vs Ali = Ali shuts out Oliver and wins one sided decision

Right i think i covered most of them do you guys and girls agree with this ??

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I AGREE 100%


:coolclick:

prime tyson would have mangled everyone of them. Buster douglas got lucky because the ref screwed up the count when he was floored by tyson. It the ref didn't screw the count up, then tyson won by knockout. If you discount the referee screw up, there was the factor that douglas's mother had died that week. I fear anybody who has had a parent die in the week they fight. They become superhuman at times like that.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Lennox and Bowe would both stop him
No way Bowe stops him! Bowe fought a disgustingly boring fight against a bad clone of Ali in Larry Donald. Even as bad a copy as Donald is of Ali, the style still gave a plodding, slow Riddick Bowe had problems finding him and never caught him. Ali would have given him fits and lit him up all over the ring for 12 rounds. Lennox Lewis had the tools but not the speed, the rhythm or the pace to keep up with Muhammad Ali. As scientific as Lewis was, Ali was more so and was big enough at close to or right at 6'3 to jab and fight an outside or inside fight against Lennox. Lennox Lewis fights at his best when he can stand back and use his range to fight at a very measured pace. Ali had a thousand strategies to disrupt that pace and would totally outjab Lewis and pepper him, sticking and moving to a unanimous decision.

Ali would out point Mercer and McCall
He would knock both of them out in the late rounds IMO

Tyson would get disqualified
He would probably get himself disqualified after realizing he had no hope of beating Ali after getting the shit stung out of him for 4 rounds. And if he didnt do that, he would be knocked out by the eighth.



Ali would win a 2-1 trilogy with Holyfield
Holyfield was a warrior and his style did have some similarities to Ken Norton who gave Ali a lot of trouble. I can see Muhammad and Evander splitting it 2-1. Especially if we are talking 12 round matches.]

and Ali would knock Morrison out.

No argument here. He would have killed Morrison.

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

How would prime Ali have done in this era ill make few match ups and see if you agree

Lennox Lewis vs Ali = Ali outjab's Lewis and wins decision

Riddick Bowe vs Ali = Ali to quick on his feet and jab would give Bowe problems Ali wins decision

Ray Mercer vs Ali = Ali way way to quick for Mercer and wins comfortable decision

Mike Tyson vs Ali = Doesn't matter if its early 90s Tyson or late 90s Tyson Ali stops Tyson late

Evander Holyfield vs Ali = In good fight Ali wins decision but this fight would be bit harder than people expect

Tommy Morrison vs Ali = No doubt in my mind Ali stops Morrison in middle rounds

Oliver McCall vs Ali = Ali shuts out Oliver and wins one sided decision

Right i think i covered most of them do you guys and girls agree with this ??

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I AGREE 100%


:coolclick:

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:coolclick:

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Originally Posted by sexydarin

prime tyson would have mangled everyone of them. Buster douglas got lucky because the ref screwed up the count when he was floored by tyson. It the ref didn't screw the count up, then tyson won by knockout. If you discount the referee screw up, there was the factor that douglas's mother had died that week. I fear anybody who has had a parent die in the week they fight. They become superhuman at times like that.

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But this isn't prime Tyson this is 90s Tyson and yes Tyson would of beat them all ::**

Just like he struggled with Tillis and Tucker in his so called unbeatable prime ??

The only one who'd have given Ali a real fight would be Lennox.
He'd have simply toyed with the others :)

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Originally Posted by Smashup

The only one who'd have given Ali a real fight would be Lennox.
He'd have simply toyed with the others :)

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even A force ???

I think Mike Tyson 90-91 knocks out Ali 80-81 ;)

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Originally Posted by Memphis

I think Mike Tyson 90-91 knocks out Ali 80-81 ;)

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prime vs end of career

so maybe

tyson ko'd berbick who decisoned ali quite comfortably so who knows!!!

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Originally Posted by Scrap

I once saw Ali in Hyde Park Running in boots over half a mile he beat a guy riding a fucking horse

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;D

a fucking rocking horse?