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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by JT Rock
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Originally Posted by undefeated
holmes is great--one thing is he succeded ali---and another thing is he tried 2 act like ali--running his mouth--but he never lost-(during prime) and u cant take that away from him--he also says he the greatest 2 ever lace up the gloves----hell no--anywhere from a 1964-1975 ali --woulda whuped holmes and make holmes look like a cheap imitation
Totally Disagree.. Holmes had a real good shot of beating Ali in both there primes, anyone to say otherwise just hasnt studied the 2 closely.. Holmes had it all speed, power, chin, heart and the best damn Jab that divison had ever seen... that fight to me is a total pickem and one of the potentially best matchups that could ever be made
Well said Jt totally agree :coolclick: in 24 then.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
When Holmes boxed Norton, Norton wasnt in his prime. Also Holmes haddnt reached his by a long way
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by Scrap
When Holmes boxed Norton, Norton wasnt in his prime. Also Holmes haddnt reached his by a long way
Agreed with this but Norton was still very formidable though because prior to Holmes fight he lost razor thin decision to Ali and beat great fighter like Jimmy Young but i don't see how people can say Norton was robbed against Holmes challenger Holmes took it to champion Norton and won first 8 rounds quite easily Norton won like i said 6 at most maybe 7 but Holmes did enough imo he won too many of earlier rounds and also won 13th or 14th round can't quite remember which round but all respect to Norton he tried his hardest but wide points gap in early going was little too much.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
The rock 49 and 0 with the belt still a record not touched
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by the duke
The rock 49 and 0 with the belt still a record not touched
He isn't underrated though.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by the duke
The rock 49 and 0 with the belt still a record not touched
He isn't underrated though.
on the contrary he is overrated IMO
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by VanChilds
I dont think Jack Johnson is usually given enough credit for being an alltime great
How can you underate Jack?
There is no doubt that he was one of,if not arguably the greatest Heavyweight of the first half of the century
I agree but he is left off of alot of ATG HW lists or put to low
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
i notice LARRY HOLMES is by far the popular choice here. if u ask me its probably cuz he never got out of ALI's shadow :-\
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P
i notice LARRY HOLMES is by far the popular choice here. if u ask me its probably cuz he never got out of ALI's shadow :-\
Yep totally agree.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
Didn't Holmes beat Norton fighting with a torn right biceps muscle ?
Anyway, i still believe Holmes is most underrated.
A dominant champion with a excellent jab and great right hand.
Following Ali did not do him much good
After he got beat by Spinks for the second time people started to appreciate him for what he was.
A great and dominant champion
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by DarkDestroyer
Didn't Holmes beat Norton fighting with a torn right biceps muscle ?
Anyway, i still believe Holmes is most underrated.
A dominant champion with a excellent jab and great right hand.
Following Ali did not do him much good
After he got beat by Spinks for the second time people started to appreciate him for what he was.
A great and dominant champion
Yes.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P
i notice LARRY HOLMES is by far the popular choice here. :-\
Yes, which in fact demonstrates that he is NOT the most underrated heavyweight. I would have thought, logically, that the person with least votes would be the most underrated?
;D
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
in the tyson dvd they talk to holmes like he was just some guy that fought tyson its pretty funny.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
I am a bit too young to know how the world rated Holmes at the time of his reign. From what I am reading from you guys, he was apparently very underrated at his time. But I certainly wouldn't say that he is underrated now. Most people agree he is at least a top 5 All Time Great. If someone thinks he should be 2 or 1 that does not make him underrated. You have to give these list a 2-3 rank margin of error. It's an ATG list after all....Just my 2cents.
Can't comment on this poll though. I have not seen most of the fighters on this list. But remember guys, in most cases, the old ones are overrated and the recent ones are underrated.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
I am a bit too young to know how the world rated Holmes at the time of his reign. From what I am reading from you guys, he was apparently very underrated at his time. But I certainly wouldn't say that he is underrated now. Most people agree he is at least a top 5 All Time Great. If someone thinks he should be 2 or 1 that does not make him underrated. You have to give these list a 2-3 rank margin of error. It's an ATG list after all....Just my 2cents.
Can't comment on this poll though. I have not seen most of the fighters on this list. But remember guys, in most cases, the old ones are overrated and the recent ones are underrated.
Same here but i have most of his fights on dvd and they used to slag Holmes off something rotten but i do agree i think boxing fans over last few years have realized now Holmes is top 5 hw of all time.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
lennox lewis is underated because of his skills and probaly 10 years from now new fans wont know much of him
no doubt larry holmes is the most underrated.
this might sond a little funky but ezzard charles is also underated
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
Larry Holmes and Chris Byrd.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
I must agree with Headson
Ezzard Charles deserves more recognition
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by X
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Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P
i notice LARRY HOLMES is by far the popular choice here. :-\
Yes, which in fact demonstrates that he is NOT the most underrated heavyweight. I would have thought, logically, that the person with least votes would be the most underrated?
;D
Haha, such insight!
Holmes was underrated at the time. I dont think he is so much so in recent years.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
Michael Moorer was not underrated . If people thought he was terrible then he was overrated.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65
Michael Moorer was not underrated . If people thought he was terrible then he was overrated.
he beat a prime Evander Holyfield....he was a good solid fighter, he was just stupid vs Foreman
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by JT Rock
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Originally Posted by Lyle
....that's gay
Ibeabuchi is overrated if anything
Sam Langford is the most underrated
Looks like someone else is sipping out of the gay cup too with a comment like that, huh sunshine ;D
He never even fought for a title.....he was only 20-0-0 and his career status is built on wins over two guys Byrd and Tua who were PROSPECTS when he beat them.
People can say he would beat Evander or Lewis or whoever but that's what they base his underrated status on??? I got some news for you OPINION does not equal FACT....and there are no FACTS that say Ike would be the best of that era.....he could have lost to Michael Grant for all we know.
If you are going to say someone is underrated then base it on how they actually did and not what they would have done if they were not a crazed kidnapping rapist.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by JT Rock
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by the duke
The rock 49 and 0 with the belt still a record not touched
He isn't underrated though.
on the contrary he is overrated IMO
with a record of 49 wins and 46 kos one cant be over rated
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by JT Rock
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by the duke
The rock 49 and 0 with the belt still a record not touched
He isn't underrated though.
on the contrary he is overrated IMO
sorry 49 fights with 36 kos
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by the duke
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Originally Posted by JT Rock
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by the duke
The rock 49 and 0 with the belt still a record not touched
He isn't underrated though.
on the contrary he is overrated IMO
sorry 49 fights with 36 kos
49 wins 43 kos.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by Lyle
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Originally Posted by JT Rock
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Originally Posted by Lyle
....that's gay
Ibeabuchi is overrated if anything
Sam Langford is the most underrated
Looks like someone else is sipping out of the gay cup too with a comment like that, huh sunshine ;D
He never even fought for a title.....he was only 20-0-0 and his career status is built on wins over two guys Byrd and Tua who were
PROSPECTS when he beat them.
People can say he would beat Evander or Lewis or whoever but that's what they base his underrated status on??? I got some news for you OPINION does not equal FACT....and there are no FACTS that say Ike would be the best of that era.....he could have lost to Michael Grant for all we know.
If you are going to say someone is underrated then base it on how they actually did and not what
they would have done if they were not a crazed kidnapping rapist.
This whole thread is based on opinion Lyle ;D Well if we were going by Calzaghe standards then Ike would be one of the best heavies ever.....
And Lyle you KNOW Ike was as fundamentally sound as any Heavy we have seen in the past 20 years.. Speed, strength, Stamina, workrate, chin and heart... Not to mention his defense was SOLID and he could Box beautifully. There is no reason not to believe Ike couldnt be up there with the Lewis's Holyfield's and Tyson's of the division... He would beat your Boy Wlad into borsh and you know this man ;D
Let me ask you a question Lyle.... When we are discussing fighters and there abilities, why do you take cheap shots at there outside life.. McClellan, Tyson, Ibeabucchi etc.. we talk about these fighters because of what they do in the ring not what they do outside..... If we were discussing jail time and stuff to that degree this would be a news and law enforcement place. They were fighters thats why we have a purpose to talk about them, not because they were or are criminals ;)
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
I'm just saying Ike's PRIME was spent in jail....we all know how a boxer can be the hottest thing one minute and then flat on his back the next.
In boxing you don't judge greatness solely on POTENTIAL, that's all I am saying.
Sam Langford was a GREAT fighter he didn't get a title because of racism......Ike has no one to blame for not getting a title but himself......in my opinion there is a HUGE difference
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by Lyle
I'm just saying Ike's PRIME was spent in jail....we all know how a boxer can be the hottest thing one minute and then flat on his back the next.
In boxing you don't judge greatness solely on POTENTIAL, that's all I am saying.
Sam Langford was a GREAT fighter he didn't get a title because of racism......Ike has no one to blame for not getting a title but himself......in my opinion there is a HUGE difference
Oh yea he Fuked himself... Thats a no doubter. I voted for Holmes personally, I just dont think Ike's career was overrated only because he did extremely well in his short time... So I praise him only cause he deserves it for what he accompolished up to that point.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
I understand your point of view but I just don't like judging fighters on the "what if's"....CC for a good argument
Also when I talk about Tyson, McClellan, and Ibeabuchi's lives outside the ring I don't bring it into how good I think they were as far as hypothetical match ups go. I only bring it up in this case because if you're talking about underrated/overrated Ike didn't have a long enough career to be considered for this....I mean guys who shoot themselves in the foot but have tons of talent are a dime a dozen in boxing
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by Lyle
I understand your point of view but I just don't like judging fighters on the "what if's"....CC for a good argument
Also when I talk about Tyson, McClellan, and Ibeabuchi's lives outside the ring I don't bring it into how good I think they were as far as hypothetical match ups go. I only bring it up in this case because if you're talking about underrated/overrated Ike didn't have a long enough career to be considered for this....I mean guys who shoot themselves in the foot but have tons of talent are a dime a dozen in boxing
:coolclick: # 1062
yea I here you, good convo... Yep hate it when a fighter screw himself. :-\
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
I never thought Michael Moorer was a good heavyweight at all. Yeah he beat Evander but then he was stopped by Evander after that. Evander does not stop that many guys. His chin was not good enough for this man to be underrated. If anything he was overrated. Even Morrison could stay away from Foreman for 12 rounds.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65
I never thought Michael Moorer was a good heavyweight at all. Yeah he beat Evander but then he was stopped by Evander after that. Evander does not stop that many guys. His chin was not good enough for this man to be underrated. If anything he was overrated. Even Morrison could stay away from Foreman for 12 rounds.
I think Moorer was good hw very good technical skills just his chin let him down.
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
Not his skills let Moorer down, it was his desire.
At light heavy he was a monster because he had to practiclly starve himself to make weight.
That made him one mean mofo.
He never had that once he started bulking up and adding pounds
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
True story
For the Cooney-Holmes fight,President Reagan had a special line set up in Cooney's dressing room,to congratulate him on his win.
There was no such line in Holmes dressing room
Hard to get more underated then that
Where did you hear that mate?
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
;) larry homes cos he was in the shadow of the ALI YEARS and allso george forman for the same reason, and look what this guy did after 10 years out off the ring, and still is underrated ;)
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
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Originally Posted by Lyle
I'm just saying Ike's PRIME was spent in jail....we all know how a boxer can be the hottest thing one minute and then flat on his back the next.
In boxing you don't judge greatness solely on POTENTIAL, that's all I am saying.
Sam Langford was a GREAT fighter he didn't get a title because of racism......Ike has no one to blame for not getting a title but himself......in my opinion there is a HUGE difference
Yes, but don't forget that three years of Ali's PRIME were also spent out of boxing, so he technically could be underrated as we never really saw the best of him.
Also (nothwithstanding my own opinion) he was banned from boxing for refusung to be inducted into the Army as he was, essentially, part of a radical muslim 'terrorist' group at the time. Today's political climate would probably also actually jail someone who did that today?
I agree that it's dangerous to make our own judgements about people's lives when we should be purely judging them on their technical prowess in the ring?
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Re: Who Is Most Underrated Heavyweight Of All Time Come And Vote
Quote:
Originally Posted by X
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Originally Posted by Lyle
I'm just saying Ike's PRIME was spent in jail....we all know how a boxer can be the hottest thing one minute and then flat on his back the next.
In boxing you don't judge greatness solely on POTENTIAL, that's all I am saying.
Sam Langford was a GREAT fighter he didn't get a title because of racism......Ike has no one to blame for not getting a title but himself......in my opinion there is a HUGE difference
Yes, but don't forget that three years of Ali's PRIME were also spent out of boxing, so he technically could be underrated as we never really saw the best of him.
Also (nothwithstanding my own opinion) he was banned from boxing for refusung to be inducted into the Army as he was, essentially, part of a radical muslim 'terrorist' group at the time. Today's political climate would probably also actually jail someone who did that today?
I agree that it's dangerous to make our own judgements about people's lives when we should be purely judging them on their technical prowess in the ring?
there werent terrorist groups back then they were more or less radical pro black groups. But good point all the same :coolclick:
