Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna
If he did all that he's 1-3 no problem
Did i read that right top 1 or 3 boxer of all time ???
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna
If he did all that he's 1-3 no problem
Did i read that right top 1 or 3 boxer of all time ???
it reads "IF " he did all that..
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
It seems like a tall order to beat all those guys but the point is he needs to stick around and fight nothing but world class champions from here on for the next 5 years. It is not impossible for him to do this considering that he has not been in any wars and has rarely been hit clean in his entire career.
Most likely non of this will happen but if the question is what does he have to do to make the top 5 all time greats? well he has to do great things, extraordinary things. Things that make people think that there is no way he can do that, then do it.
Ali achieved greatness when he fought and beat the man who had destroyed the man who beat him. Whoever thaught that he would beat Forman at that time? Very few.
Leonard achived greatness by coming out of retirement and fighting the most dangerous man in the MW division. Nobody gave him much of a shot against Hagler. I guarantee you that if Leonard had not fought Hagler he would not be considered top 10 all time.
Some people try to achieve greatness but fail. For example, Tito wanted to go all the way up to 175 and challange Roy Jones. He knew this would be almost impossible. But he also knew that that is what it would take to achieve greatness. He failed, but imagine if he had won the MW tournament and then had beat Roy Jones. He would no doubt be considered top 10, maybe top 5 all time. Nobody would've even remembered how he was outboxed by Oscar.
Being an All Time Great is not about being the most skilled. It is about doing great things in that ring.
:appl: :coolclick:
I agree. We are talking about all time great. Must do great things.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna
If he did all that he's 1-3 no problem
Did i read that right top 1 or 3 boxer of all time ???
it reads "IF " he did all that..
Yes and he still wouldn't get number 1 or 3 beating an old Mosley or untested Margarito or Cotto.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by luvfightgame
Who you beat and how you beat them count. If he coasts and outpoints any of the people on that list it doesn't count as much as if he beats them bloody and or stops them. Make their corner throw the towel in, etc....
That's how he gets to be an alltime great. Take a risk and actually fight a top fighter. Mosley would be perfect. Not just run and be content to win rounds, try to ko him. If he did that with ODH and won we wouldn't be having this ...."nothing PBF does is good enough" argument. He needs to take a risk and make the career defining fight.
so he's not an all time great because he minimizes the other guy's chances of winning. That's ridiculous.. I don't see how having a close, beat him up, knockdown bloodyt fight would make him great...
a top fighter? Corrales, castillo, weren't top? Oscar? Basically he should take a risk and try to beat them at their own fight...take a risk by giving the other guy more chances to ko him? he stopped corrales knocked him down five times too....stopped hernandez,chavez, and manfredy...
I didn't say the fight has to be close. In some people's opinion the fight with ODH wasn't close. Some feel PBF easily outpointed him. If so, be great and take it a step further, go for the ko. Not suggesting that he give away his advantages. Don't trade, but you have to take risks if you are going to be great. Basically we are talking about greatness, not goodness. It's like a hero or a superhero. He needs to do something above and beyond. He had a great chance with ODH but he didn't go for it. His strategy was to win on points. Would have been great if he turned up the offense and went for a stoppage.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
no the statement was if he beat the 8 fights which were listed in the post before. it is one hell of all tall order that wouldnt happen in my eyes. it was 8 more fights against top class opposition, not a couple against current tallent. he would have to box on for another 5 years to get top 5 imo
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Opinions play too much into rankings, there has to be some kind of universal ranking system for there to be clear top 10 lists. I am kind of done with the whole concept of top ten lists...theres too many damn fighters to sort through, and too many fights I havent seen.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
If Floyd beats Mosley and then beats whoever comes out the winner of the Margo - Williams - Judah - Cotto mini tournament. His stock would definitely go up in the eyes of all that see him now. But when we talk about all time greatness he needs more. 20 to 30 years from now guys just won't know if these guys were that good.
Floyd is a great fighter. But the fact that he is so much better than the competition will hurt him. He just does not have that big name, that measuring stick. 20 or 30 years from now they will see DLH in his reccord but they will also see that DLH was passed his prime and even in his prime has loss in most of the big time fights he was in. They will not pay much attention to the fact that some of those losses were highly disputed.
I think the only thing that will give FLoyd a top 5 all time great status is longevity. The man is 30 but he is a very young 30. I can easily see him fighting a good 5 years without any severe loss in agility and reflexes. In five years he could have 8 to 10 fights easy.
Lets say 8
1. Spinks
2. Mosley
3. Winner of tournament (if not Judah)
4. Clottey
5. Pavlik (or current MW champ if other at this time)
6. Young hungry powerfull up and commer (Bassically any new undefeated feared fighter that gets people talking and saying, maybe he could beat Floyd)
7. Winky if he is still around (B-Hop might be way too old by this time)
8. Taylor if he is still undefeated and has not moved up over 168
Maybe if he draws another big name out of retirement in Tito and beats him, it would also be a huge win. No matter how much past it Tito is a W over him is big.
This would mean a win over big names of last era in DLH, Mosley and Tito. A win over this era's big names in Cotto or Margo, Pavlik and Taylor. A win over very game and tough contenders in Spinks and Clottey. A win against the future big name. And finally a win against a master class fighter in Winky.
There is no reason why he couldn't pull this off. He has the skill and determination to do it. And even if he looses one of these fights, the caliber of opposition is such that he will not lose his place among the all time greats. And if he succeeds in winning, considering that he would have to beat Taylor at 168 which would make him the only 7 division world champ in history, we would not be talking top 5 all time. We will be talking is he better that Ray Robinson?
Thats a bit ridiculous but i suppose that is what it would take for people to get off floyd's back.
For the reccord. I am not stating what he should do so that I personally consider him ATG. I am stating my idea on the kind of feat that it would take for the generall public to consider him an ATG and for him to remain considered an ATG in the long years to come.
I completly agree that it would be almost impossible to discredit him if he pulls that off.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
If Floyd beats Mosley and then beats whoever comes out the winner of the Margo - Williams - Judah - Cotto mini tournament. His stock would definitely go up in the eyes of all that see him now. But when we talk about all time greatness he needs more. 20 to 30 years from now guys just won't know if these guys were that good.
Floyd is a great fighter. But the fact that he is so much better than the competition will hurt him. He just does not have that big name, that measuring stick. 20 or 30 years from now they will see DLH in his reccord but they will also see that DLH was passed his prime and even in his prime has loss in most of the big time fights he was in. They will not pay much attention to the fact that some of those losses were highly disputed.
I think the only thing that will give FLoyd a top 5 all time great status is longevity. The man is 30 but he is a very young 30. I can easily see him fighting a good 5 years without any severe loss in agility and reflexes. In five years he could have 8 to 10 fights easy.
Lets say 8
1. Spinks
2. Mosley
3. Winner of tournament (if not Judah)
4. Clottey
5. Pavlik (or current MW champ if other at this time)
6. Young hungry powerfull up and commer (Bassically any new undefeated feared fighter that gets people talking and saying, maybe he could beat Floyd)
7. Winky if he is still around (B-Hop might be way too old by this time)
8. Taylor if he is still undefeated and has not moved up over 168
Maybe if he draws another big name out of retirement in Tito and beats him, it would also be a huge win. No matter how much past it Tito is a W over him is big.
This would mean a win over big names of last era in DLH, Mosley and Tito. A win over this era's big names in Cotto or Margo, Pavlik and Taylor. A win over very game and tough contenders in Spinks and Clottey. A win against the future big name. And finally a win against a master class fighter in Winky.
There is no reason why he couldn't pull this off. He has the skill and determination to do it. And even if he looses one of these fights, the caliber of opposition is such that he will not lose his place among the all time greats. And if he succeeds in winning, considering that he would have to beat Taylor at 168 which would make him the only 7 division world champ in history, we would not be talking top 5 all time. We will be talking is he better that Ray Robinson?
Thats a bit ridiculous but i suppose that is what it would take for people to get off floyd's back.
For the reccord. I am not stating what he should do so that I personally consider him ATG. I am stating my idea on the kind of feat that it would take for the generall public to consider him an ATG and for him to remain considered an ATG in the long years to come.
I completly agree that it would be almost impossible to discredit him if he pulls that off.
amazingly they still would...the reason would be well he didn't fight in black in white...the greats had there fights in black and white...or some stupid shit like that...right now i think its dumb not to consider him and all time great the only thing hurting how high he is when its done is a fight with mosley..even though mosley is past his prime he'd still be floyd toughest opponent by far....
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Maybe he needs to have more balls when he fights otherwise he is just another willie pep, he is ATG but not among the GREATEST. because he doesnt fight more offesively. SRL, SSR, Ali, Hearns all have great boxing and defensive skill as well but the reason that they r great is because they didnt just run around pick shots and not get hurt, they could have done the same thing, and maybe not had some L's in their records that they do BUT when they were in a fight they fought like warriors thats what makes them great, the heart along with the skills.
Hearns could have a easier with Hagler but decided to FIGHT.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
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Originally Posted by MR_TWINKY13
Maybe he needs to have more balls when he fights otherwise he is just another willie pep, he is ATG but not among the GREATEST. because he doesnt fight more offesively. SRL, SSR, Ali, Hearns all have great boxing and defensive skill as well but the reason that they r great is because they didnt just run around pick shots and not get hurt, they could have done the same thing, and maybe not had some L's in their records that they do BUT when they were in a fight they fought like warriors thats what makes them great, the heart along with the skills.
Hearns could have a easier with Hagler but decided to FIGHT.
Most people rate Willie Pep ahead of both Ray Leonard and Hearns all-time. In fact. WAYYYY above Hearns. If Floyd is "just another Willie Pep," that means he would be one of the greatest fighters ever.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
I would definitely put him at top 5 all time if he does this. I would have a whole new respect for him.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Personally, I don't fault Floyd for winning the way he does.
But it's true ... he seems to be able to win without general aggressiveness. Obviously, that is a testament to his great skill.
Just as obviously, his fights would be more "exciting" if he could increase his level of aggressiveness.
But what would he sacrifice by becoming more aggressive? His speed is highly acclaimed, but how does he use it? Generally countering and taking advantage of openings while displaying his also highly acclaimed defensive skills. So instead of fighting out of that space that his defensive skills gain him, where he can watch for openings and point on the opponent ... you see, he would sacrifice his control of the fight, his timing of the other's punches.
Clearly, with his skills, he could enter into a Gatti-Ward type war with many fighters and still win. But he wins best by doing what he does. He's also not a god ... if you change your style from X to Y you may get new possibilities but you also give some up.
I'd personally like to see him turn it up a bit ... he puts on clinics and makes the other look incapable so often ... Hopkins did the same against Tito, but after schooling him scientifically and effectively throughout the fight, he finished by knocking him out. A bit of that fire in Floyd might make his great skill more easly to recognize as true greatness.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
Man, I'm outta here.... too much man-crush in here.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
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Originally Posted by BigMix27
1. Defeats Mosely
2. Defeats Margarito
3. Defeats Cotto
All in consecutive order then retires. How high would he be ranked? Can he be a top 5 all time great?
That's a tall order...but I think that he could handle it.
That being said...Floyd's done plenty to be highly regarded at the moment. I was thoroughly impressed with the Baldo, Judah, & Oscar fights.
Floyd's given a great accounting of himself & deserves much more respect than he get's, IWO.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
If he does that,he would be rated much much more highly thanhe is now because those 3 fighters are more dangerous and highly regarded than anyone he has fought in a long long time. He deserves credit for the Oscar fight but Shane is more dangerous at 147 as are Cotto and Margarito. Cotto is unbeaten and Margarito has not lost at WW for a long long time.
These are fights he will get respect for not the Brussles,shot Gattis and Mitchells,coming off losses Judah etc. He needs to fight the hungrier,younger fighters,the more dangerous fighters.
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
<snip>
Cotto is unbeaten
But that may (may, mind you) be a dated statement come Sunday morning. :laugh:
Re: How highly would Mayweather be rated if he accomplishes the following feat?
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
If he does that,he would be rated much much more highly thanhe is now because those 3 fighters are more dangerous and highly regarded than anyone he has fought in a long long time. He deserves credit for the Oscar fight but Shane is more dangerous at 147 as are Cotto and Margarito. Cotto is unbeaten and Margarito has not lost at WW for a long long time.
These are fights he will get respect for not the Brussles,shot Gattis and Mitchells,coming off losses Judah etc. He needs to fight the hungrier,younger fighters,the more dangerous fighters.
c'mon game...you know mayweather would tear cotto to shreds and then no one would give him credit for it...didn't chop chop almost stop cotto...and please enough with the margarito guy already...we'll see what happens when he fights williams...although williams might in there too soon but nevertheless the faster these "contenders" get beat the clearer it will be that there is no one left for PBF to fight except mosley....and him going to middleweight is ridiculous
