name the great that made him great...

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Johnson had been around the block 9 or 10 times as well when he beat Jones
Joppy held the belt for quite awhile himself,taking it in 96 against undefeated Shinji Takehara,his last title defense before Tito was 27-0 Jonathen Reid,Holmes had had 3 title defense when he ran in to Hopkins as well
So first you say he never fought a middleweight
Then it wasnt any good ones,even though Hopkins was the guy who unified the belts and held his for 11 years

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I don't question Hopkins wasn't all time great but he isn't top 10 for certain and most of his opponents were average or only decent he never actually beat great Middleweight only great names he beat was Oscar and Tito and they were well above there natural weight.

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this is exactly my point about Duran...he didn't beat any really great fighters...you say hop doesn't get credit for beating joppy, echols..and basically don't give him credit for beating oscar and tito even though tito kayoed joppy a legit MW...

So if hop doesn't get credit for beating tito and oscar, then why should SRL get credit for beating Duran, who was above his natural weight, and not that good anyway (according to the fact that hop doesn't credit for beating joppy,echols,eastman,johnson,) then why should duran get credit for beating the guys he beat at light weight, because none of them are great...

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

He only held the lightweight belt for 7 years,unified the WBC and WBA belts,took the welterweight belt from Leonard,and then moves up in weight again to become the light middleweight champ,and then moves up again to take the middleweight belt.
Whadda bum,I tells ya ;D

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who did he take the MW belt from because he lost to hagler and hagler was the MW champ?

So then holding a belt for a long time makes him great? top 10? because there are a number of guys that did that...

And still you haven't named the fighter that he beat that made him great? My point is so what if he held the belt for a long time..nowadays fighters aren't given credit for winning belts, or reigning for a long time but rather who they fight...and certainly aren't rated high because they lose to great fighters but rather because they beat great fighters....


and if beating ray leonard 1 out of three times makes him great, then montell griffith must be all world because he beat toney twice took the belt from RJJ (albeit DQ)...

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Originally Posted by BIG H

ESPN – Roberto Duran 6 p4p all time

Panel from the associated boxing press Roberto Duran – number 7 p4p all time

BBC writers poll – Roberto Duran number 3 p4p all time

IBRO is an esteemed group of analysts who are well researched in the history of boxing. The IBRO membership had 30 historians participating in the poll they had Roberto Duran number 7 p4p alltime

The Sun online poll – Roberto Duran number 9 p4p all time


Just a few I picked out - but you won't find any respected poll that doesn't include him.

Maybe JonesMyweather knows more than 99% of the rest of the boxing world :-\

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And I could less what a bunch of polls say..I'm asking for you and anybody else on here to decide for yourself...forget reading the results of polls....by what standard do you think he's deserving of top 10 ATG status?

certainly wasn't because of who he beat....
certainly isn't because he beat leonard 1 out of 3....
is it just because he moved up in weight?
i hope not because of his record it's padded with the likes of the tijiauna or panamanian cartel henchmen...
i hope not because he lost to hearns and hagler....
just let me know why you think he's deserving of a top ten ranking....

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He took it from Iran Barkley

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if that's a feather in his cap for ATG status then RJJ should get credit for beating Ruiz...and PBF for beating Oscar...and Iran barkley was nothing more than that eras version of rahman, mccall, dougalss...meaning he got lucky against hearns and lost every meaningful fight after that except the rematch against hearns...

Oh Jones has gotten plenty of credit for Ruiz
Interesting sidenote about the claim that Johnson and Tarver beat a "washed up Roy Jones"
Hopkins is 4 years older and has beaten them both

Jones IMO is the greatest fighter of this era. He beat Hopkins, and no one else dominated they way he did. Everyone's reign comes to an end. RJJ is top 30 all-time. Hopkins is about 60th IMO. As far as Duran goes he is the greatest lightweight of all-time and is definitly top 10 in my ATG list.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Oh Jones has gotten plenty of credit for Ruiz
Interesting sidenote about the claim that Johnson and Tarver beat a "washed up Roy Jones"
Hopkins is 4 years older and has beaten them both

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hopkins style isn't dependant upon reflexes which dwindle away with each passing day, RJJ was or is...so he wasn't the same fighter...not to mention hop didn't have to shed 25lbs of muscle to fight either one of them..but that doesn't matter because roy beat hop....and hop's reign at MW is only because roy moved out of the division ;)

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Oh Jones has gotten plenty of credit for Ruiz
Interesting sidenote about the claim that Johnson and Tarver beat a "washed up Roy Jones"
Hopkins is 4 years older and has beaten them both

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hopkins style isn't dependant upon reflexes which dwindle away with each passing day, RJJ was or is...so he wasn't the same fighter...not to mention hop didn't have to shed 25lbs of muscle to fight either one of them..but that doesn't matter because roy beat hop....and hop's reign at MW is only because roy moved out of the division ;)

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Based on what,a decision?
Most people dont understand that about Bhop
He finds a way,nobody knew alot about Jones when they fought
Give Bhop tape on a guy,he will win
No matter how bad Abrum and King wanted the belt in Taylor's hands
Win lose or draw,I just hope he retires after Wright

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Oh Jones has gotten plenty of credit for Ruiz
Interesting sidenote about the claim that Johnson and Tarver beat a "washed up Roy Jones"
Hopkins is 4 years older and has beaten them both

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hopkins style isn't dependant upon reflexes which dwindle away with each passing day, RJJ was or is...so he wasn't the same fighter...not to mention hop didn't have to shed 25lbs of muscle to fight either one of them..but that doesn't matter because roy beat hop....and hop's reign at MW is only because roy moved out of the division ;)

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Based on what,a decision?
Most people dont understand that about Bhop
He finds a way,nobody knew alot about Jones when they fought
Give Bhop tape on a guy,he will win
No matter how bad Abrum and King wanted the belt in Taylor's hands
Win lose or draw,I just hope he retires after Wright

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WHAT!!! So you're saying that bhop could find any tape on roy jones before they fought...that's ridiculous i know for a fact the fights with harris, sewarno, wolfe and stakehouse were televised..

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Oh Jones has gotten plenty of credit for Ruiz
Interesting sidenote about the claim that Johnson and Tarver beat a "washed up Roy Jones"
Hopkins is 4 years older and has beaten them both

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hopkins style isn't dependant upon reflexes which dwindle away with each passing day, RJJ was or is...so he wasn't the same fighter...not to mention hop didn't have to shed 25lbs of muscle to fight either one of them..but that doesn't matter because roy beat hop....and hop's reign at MW is only because roy moved out of the division ;)

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Based on what,a decision?
Most people dont understand that about Bhop
He finds a way,nobody knew alot about Jones when they fought
Give Bhop tape on a guy,he will win
No matter how bad Abrum and King wanted the belt in Taylor's hands
Win lose or draw,I just hope he retires after Wright

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Im sorry but i totally disagree Hopkins isn't invincible his style doesn't find a away to beat everyone every boxer has weakness and i don't care how many tapes he would of watched of Jones he is so unorthdox that tapes wouldn't do him much good.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Oh Jones has gotten plenty of credit for Ruiz
Interesting sidenote about the claim that Johnson and Tarver beat a "washed up Roy Jones"
Hopkins is 4 years older and has beaten them both

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hopkins style isn't dependant upon reflexes which dwindle away with each passing day, RJJ was or is...so he wasn't the same fighter...not to mention hop didn't have to shed 25lbs of muscle to fight either one of them..but that doesn't matter because roy beat hop....and hop's reign at MW is only because roy moved out of the division ;)

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Based on what,a decision?
Most people dont understand that about Bhop
He finds a way,nobody knew alot about Jones when they fought
Give Bhop tape on a guy,he will win
No matter how bad Abrum and King wanted the belt in Taylor's hands
Win lose or draw,I just hope he retires after Wright

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you do know that hopkins fought in this era? because he could have easily gotten tapes of RJJ, imean even amateur fights were televised...if anything BHOP's fights were the ones that were hard to find...

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Beating Sugar Ray Leonard has got to be.

Because Ken Buchanan was controversial that wouldn't of made him great

Neither did De Jesus.

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So then oliver mccall must be great? but then you might not consider Lennox to be great...
So then is montell griffith great because he beat toney twice?

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

Roberto duran...name the fighter that he beat that propelled him into greatness...

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There's a lot more to greatness than that mate

I assume you are questioning his greatness based on his opposition?

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you assume correctly because i personally think he's way too high on the all time list and he beat up a bunch of bums and padded his record....

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What you are showing is complete ignorance and proving that your knowledge of him is based on a piece of paper with his opponents written on!

Honestly mate for any boxing fan to say that about Duran is madness. You won't find many boxing experts (and I mean the real experts) that don't have Duran top 5 p4p of all time.

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To be fair H is right..

Your a good guy bro but what you state is maybe not purely off..But far too highly based on records and not viewing..

As above...


Ice cold did not imply that for one...

Montell GriffIN..Is a terrible example because Toney was screwed for sure in the first fight..
And the decision was controversial in the second imo..

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Oh Jones has gotten plenty of credit for Ruiz
Interesting sidenote about the claim that Johnson and Tarver beat a "washed up Roy Jones"
Hopkins is 4 years older and has beaten them both

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hopkins style isn't dependant upon reflexes which dwindle away with each passing day, RJJ was or is...so he wasn't the same fighter...not to mention hop didn't have to shed 25lbs of muscle to fight either one of them..but that doesn't matter because roy beat hop....and hop's reign at MW is only because roy moved out of the division ;)

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Based on what,a decision?
Most people dont understand that about Bhop
He finds a way,nobody knew alot about Jones when they fought
Give Bhop tape on a guy,he will win
No matter how bad Abrum and King wanted the belt in Taylor's hands
Win lose or draw,I just hope he retires after Wright

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Im sorry but i totally disagree Hopkins isn't invincible his style doesn't find a away to beat everyone every boxer has weakness and i don't care how many tapes he would of watched of Jones he is so unorthdox that tapes wouldn't do him much good.

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Oh come now
Bhop doesnt really have a style
He molds himself to the fight
Thus Foreman foolishly assuming all through the fight that Bhop couldnt box with Tito
Or Merchant assuming that those punches werent landing with power against Tarver

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Oh Jones has gotten plenty of credit for Ruiz
Interesting sidenote about the claim that Johnson and Tarver beat a "washed up Roy Jones"
Hopkins is 4 years older and has beaten them both

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hopkins style isn't dependant upon reflexes which dwindle away with each passing day, RJJ was or is...so he wasn't the same fighter...not to mention hop didn't have to shed 25lbs of muscle to fight either one of them..but that doesn't matter because roy beat hop....and hop's reign at MW is only because roy moved out of the division ;)

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Based on what,a decision?
Most people dont understand that about Bhop
He finds a way,nobody knew alot about Jones when they fought
Give Bhop tape on a guy,he will win
No matter how bad Abrum and King wanted the belt in Taylor's hands
Win lose or draw,I just hope he retires after Wright

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you do know that hopkins fought in this era? because he could have easily gotten tapes of RJJ, imean even amateur fights were televised...if anything BHOP's fights were the ones that were hard to find...

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Funny
Ive seen his 5th fight on tape,the one he taveled two states away to take on the last moment
Back when he wasnt the Executioner
It was on ESPN
Oh yeah,just curious,exactly how many round has Roy won one handed
Because Bhop won a round and a half against Echols with a seperated shoulder with only his left to work with

Imo hopkins is relevent to p4p greatness due to a great style..Great figher..

Never been stopped, Controversial in and out of the ring, Beat alot of good..A few great fighters..

The fact he is still and has been considered prime at this age for the last few years and his only recent losses coming in controversial fashion makes him p4p great..

And theres still more to come..Winky is a huge defining fight, he may even fight on after winky ..WHo knows

Just like Duran..Although duran had the competition to show his greatness..Him as a person and a fighter adds to his reputation and legacy ..as does hopkins

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Oh Jones has gotten plenty of credit for Ruiz
Interesting sidenote about the claim that Johnson and Tarver beat a "washed up Roy Jones"
Hopkins is 4 years older and has beaten them both

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hopkins style isn't dependant upon reflexes which dwindle away with each passing day, RJJ was or is...so he wasn't the same fighter...not to mention hop didn't have to shed 25lbs of muscle to fight either one of them..but that doesn't matter because roy beat hop....and hop's reign at MW is only because roy moved out of the division ;)

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Based on what,a decision?
Most people dont understand that about Bhop
He finds a way,nobody knew alot about Jones when they fought
Give Bhop tape on a guy,he will win
No matter how bad Abrum and King wanted the belt in Taylor's hands
Win lose or draw,I just hope he retires after Wright

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you do know that hopkins fought in this era? because he could have easily gotten tapes of RJJ, imean even amateur fights were televised...if anything BHOP's fights were the ones that were hard to find...

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Funny
Ive seen his 5th fight on tape,the one he taveled two states away to take on the last moment
Back when he wasnt the Executioner
It was on ESPN
Oh yeah,just curious,exactly how many round has Roy won one handed
Because Bhop won a round and a half against Echols with a seperated shoulder with only his left to work with

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Lol!!!!! ;D

Im really sorry bro..You make good points elsewhere..

But roy fought Bernard one handed!! Lol..The irony..

Agreed with Tito its well known Jones was one handed and he still beat Hopkins easy Hopkins only won about 2 or 3 rounds.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Agreed with Tito its well known Jones was one handed and he still beat Hopkins easy Hopkins only won about 2 or 3 rounds.

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It was no whooping.. Hopkins wasnt specifically beaten every round he lost.. He fought the rounds..But its clear who won a large variety or rounds..

I enjoy those types of fights between two fighters i love.. Theres no shame in loosing most of the rounds when the rounds are competative to an extent

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Originally Posted by Tito_BHB

Imo hopkins is relevent to p4p greatness due to a great style..Great figher..

Never been stopped, Controversial in and out of the ring, Beat alot of good..A few great fighters..

The fact he is still and has been considered prime at this age for the last few years and his only recent losses coming in controversial fashion makes him p4p great..

And theres still more to come..Winky is a huge defining fight, he may even fight on after winky ..WHo knows

Just like Duran..Although duran had the competition to show his greatness..Him as a person and a fighter adds to his reputation and legacy ..as does hopkins

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What weird is the coments that Roy was unorthodox
Hes perfectly orthodox
Hes just faster then you are
But as far as his style,its perfect,Id be a fan,if he wasnt such a fan of himself
And no,Bhop actually had a full shoulder seperation on a hip toss by Echols

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Originally Posted by Tito_BHB

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Agreed with Tito its well known Jones was one handed and he still beat Hopkins easy Hopkins only won about 2 or 3 rounds.

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It was no whooping.. Hopkins wasnt specifically beaten every round he lost.. He fought the rounds..But its clear who won a large variety or rounds..

I enjoy those types of fights between two fighters i love.. Theres no shame in loosing most of the rounds when the rounds are competative to an extent

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Yea i agree it wasn't a whooping but it was easy to see Roy won easily Hopkins won 3 rounds on my card.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Tito_BHB

Imo hopkins is relevent to p4p greatness due to a great style..Great figher..

Never been stopped, Controversial in and out of the ring, Beat alot of good..A few great fighters..

The fact he is still and has been considered prime at this age for the last few years and his only recent losses coming in controversial fashion makes him p4p great..

And theres still more to come..Winky is a huge defining fight, he may even fight on after winky ..WHo knows

Just like Duran..Although duran had the competition to show his greatness..Him as a person and a fighter adds to his reputation and legacy ..as does hopkins

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What weird is the coments that Roy was unorthodox
Hes perfectly orthodox
Hes just faster then you are
But as far as his style,its perfect,Id be a fan,if he wasnt such a fan of himself
And no,Bhop actually had a full shoulder seperation on a hip toss by Echols

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Yeaa i remember that..Lol

Bernard in his younger days had a a weird thing about bieng handycapped in weird ways!!..
Lol..Bieng pushed out of the ring by mills lane.. Who else But bhop

I will officially label JonesJrMayweather a troll...

What a crock shite!! I've just read.... I hadn't clicked this thread cause I had a feeling it was gonna be nonsense.

Boy was I wrong... :-\

It's time for me to go to bed. :(

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

I will officially label JonesJrMayweather a troll...

What a crock shite!! I've just read.... I hadn't clicked this thread cause I had a feeling it was gonna be nonsense.

Boy was I wrong... :-\

It's time for me to go to bed. :(

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What exactly is a troll? And it doesn't seem to be a compliment...but if an argument is made that pretty much fits then why am i the troll?

Facts are..Duran didn't beat anybody but ray leonard..and if one victory makes him ATG..then that's just ridiculous....

and the fighters he beat at lightweight were no better than the fighters shane mosley and floyd beat to win their lightweight titles...

yeah duran was a scrapper, a tough SOB, just like gatti or micky ward..but that doesn't make him an all time great...

Also how does he get credit for moving up and losing? Futhermore how does SRL get credit for beating the smaller man, not to mention losing to him...

The way the all time greats are ranked is just ridiculous..there's no clear cut way to determine who goes where except SRR is no 1..other than that..SRL,Duran,ALI, all of them esp DURAN if they had their records disected the way the modern fighters are it will be clear as day that he didn't beat anybody....And just because he padded his record by taking on all the baddest bar fighters in panama doesn't make him all time great..and since you chose to insult instead of stating why he's an ATG I guess it hurts your feelings to discover that you can't really explain why he's an all time great esp top 10...you can't name these impeccable qualifications that make ATG...so I guess I'll be the troll with facts..and you'll be the idiot with a heart based opinion....

and if yeah yeah he won in four weight divisions..well PBF won in five why is duran rated higher...corrales and castillo are better than anybody duran fought at LW and floyd beat both of them...then floyd moved up and actually won his fights where as duran one once and lost all the rest against the who's who's of his generation..so still not understanding why 's he's rated so high..

Troll isnt an insult..

Check it on Wikepedia..I couldnt quote you the meaning but it is a word for a certain type of person and what they do on the internet..

And tbf.. You think most of the fighters a floyd mayweather has fought will be remembered or known in a few decades? When the years have passed a fair few of his opponents will just be names thought of as nobodies.. When in fact alot have been good fighters..

I mean Cmon stop basing your arguement on records and the names you do and dont recognise..

You have to have seen his fights and how entertaining they were, and have known the fighters that he fought and how good they were in theyr primes and when roberto fought them..

Not even i have seen enough of roberto's fights or his opponents fights to say i know they were all good.. But he has fought alot of great fighters.. Alot of the fighters you may never of heard of were regarded as good fighters.. Roberto had defining fights and fought the very best to the end of his career and far far past his prime.. and was entertaining the entire time..

What fighters like Mayweather lack is defining fights..aside from a perfect record and the names that are on his record..What fight will people say was truely entertaining and what will they say about floyd mayweather in 20 years..

Answer me that

no need to go into a real deep explanation...

fought
Ken Buchanan
Esteban De Jesus
Hector Thompson
Carlos Palomino
Sugar Ray Leonard
Wilfred Benitez
Pipino Cuevas
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns
Iran Barkley
Vinny Pazienza
Hector Camacho
William Joppy

Won

WBA Lightweight
WBC Lightweight
WBC Welterweight
WBA Jr. Middleweight
WBC Middleweight


Fought for

WBC Jr. Middleweight
Undisputed Middleweight (WBA,WBC,IBF)
WBC Spr. Middleweight

...pretty obvious why he's a great

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

no need to go into a real deep explanation...

fought
Ken Buchanan
Esteban De Jesus
Hector Thompson
Carlos Palomino
Sugar Ray Leonard Yes he did win one but he lost trilogy so that counts as a loss.
Wilfred Benitez
Pipino Cuevas
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns
Iran Barkley
Vinny Pazienza
Hector Camacho
William Joppy

Won

WBA Lightweight
WBC Lightweight
WBC Welterweight
WBA Jr. Middleweight
WBC Middleweight


Fought for

WBC Jr. Middleweight
Undisputed Middleweight (WBA,WBC,IBF)
WBC Spr. Middleweight

...pretty obvious why he's a great

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I agree but still wouldn't have him top 5 he lost the biggest fights of his career his biggest win was against Leonard but he lost the trilogy and he lost to Hearns Hagler Benitez and come on Joppy ?? Duran was grandfather by that time and Joppys name shouldn't be mentioned on Durans resume because he was never that good anyway and i will cross through the list on the ones he lost then have a look for yourself i respect Duran but imo he isn't top 5 of all time and now have a look at the list and see how many he won out of the list he fought great opp but fighting great opp doesn't make you automatic top 5 of all time if you didn't win against most important names like Benitez Hearns Hagler ect.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

no need to go into a real deep explanation...

fought
Ken Buchanan
Esteban De Jesus
Hector Thompson
Carlos Palomino
Sugar Ray Leonard (loss)
Wilfred Benitez (loss)
Pipino Cuevas
Marvin Hagler (loss)
Thomas Hearns (loss)
Iran Barkley
Vinny Pazienza (loss)
Hector Camacho (loss)
William Joppy (loss)

Won

WBA Lightweight
WBC Lightweight
WBC Welterweight lost only defense
WBA Jr. Middleweight never successfully defended
WBC Middleweight never successfully defended


Fought for

WBC Jr. Middleweight
Undisputed Middleweight (WBA,WBC,IBF)
WBC Spr. Middleweight

...pretty obvious why he's a great

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Great is more then a good or perfect record
A fighter who captures the peoples imagination with his actions, aura and skills combined with a good record

it's true but he didn't run from anyone, Joppy although not a stellar opponent he did fight everyone that was good at 160 and did hold his own for the most part, Joppy fought Trinidad, Hopkins, Eastman, and Taylor, all 4 were top middleweights at the time and yea he only beat Eastman, but well just saying to prove the point that Duran took on all customers even if he couldn't win, he didn't turn away from any challenge

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

it's true but he didn't run from anyone, Joppy although not a stellar opponent he did fight everyone that was good at 160 and did hold his own for the most part, Joppy fought Trinidad, Hopkins, Eastman, and Taylor, all 4 were top middleweights at the time and yea he only beat Eastman, but well just saying to prove the point that Duran took on all customers even if he couldn't win, he didn't turn away from any challenge

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I totally agree but that doesn't make you automatic top 5 of all time imo bro.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

it's true but he didn't run from anyone, Joppy although not a stellar opponent he did fight everyone that was good at 160 and did hold his own for the most part, Joppy fought Trinidad, Hopkins, Eastman, and Taylor, all 4 were top middleweights at the time and yea he only beat Eastman, but well just saying to prove the point that Duran took on all customers even if he couldn't win, he didn't turn away from any challenge

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My guess is Duran went after most of the guys he lost to at the higher weights, as opposed to not running from their challenges as I believe you suggest. Doesn't mean all that much, unless balls gets you into the top 5 p4p. Frankly I see a guy like Arguello every bit as deserving. The stature of his victims is just as good if not better. He just knew when to quit.

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Originally Posted by Tito_BHB

Troll isnt an insult..

Check it on Wikepedia..I couldnt quote you the meaning but it is a word for a certain type of person and what they do on the internet..

And tbf.. You think most of the fighters a floyd mayweather has fought will be remembered or known in a few decades? When the years have passed a fair few of his opponents will just be names thought of as nobodies.. When in fact alot have been good fighters..

I mean Cmon stop basing your arguement on records and the names you do and dont recognise..

You have to have seen his fights and how entertaining they were, and have known the fighters that he fought and how good they were in theyr primes and when roberto fought them..

Not even i have seen enough of roberto's fights or his opponents fights to say i know they were all good.. But he has fought alot of great fighters.. Alot of the fighters you may never of heard of were regarded as good fighters.. Roberto had defining fights and fought the very best to the end of his career and far far past his prime.. and was entertaining the entire time..

What fighters like Mayweather lack is defining fights..aside from a perfect record and the names that are on his record..What fight will people say was truely entertaining and what will they say about floyd mayweather in 20 years..

Answer me that

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Cool click man...because that was a very smooth and inteligent answer..

and me personally i rate total dominance higher than entertainment..i like the champs not the underdogs...i thinks it takes more heart and will power to stay motivated when you're on top and fending off every one that's trying to take your spot that why respect the fighters that dominated their opposition...i only want to see a close fight between to greats....if mayweather had a close fight against baldomir it would a bad thing for him in my eyes, as it would be everyone else...They say he needs a defining fight but he shouldn't have to lower and not use all of his skill in order to make that happen..

PBF has great defence, he's accurate, he's quick both in feet and hand, has tremendous ring intelligence when he's putting all these things to use nobody will be close in the end, at least no fighter that currently on the scene...

And I actually have seen Duran's fights, not all of them but the ones with SRL,HAg,HEArns,benitez, and barkley....and to me he was just a stronger version of gatti...yeah he moved up in weight and won titles in these weight divisions..but gatti also won titles, and so did smoke gainer, but i just don't see duran as being a top ten all time boxer...that's just my opinion...he's top 50 but top 10 is just ridiculous to me, because i don't rate professionals on how well they sell or whether or not they were "good or classy guys" out of the ring...i watch them do what they do and that's it...tim duncan is one of best players of all-time not because he has great market appeal but simply because he's one of the best at what he does...pete rose was one of best to ever play baseball..i could care less that he was caught betting on the games...

oh yeah..troll to you may not be an insult to you but it is to me..because I don't like piss people off esp not on purpose..This thread was simply started because i wanted to know why some of you guys consider duran to be worthy of top 10 ATG...

People really shouldn't rate people based on what they have seen on Boxrec ;)

Watch 20 - of Duran's fights prior to 1979 and then report back and tell us he was not a great

also ...watch him (A LIGHTWEIGHT) match possibly the greatest Middleweight in history for 12 rounds!!

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Originally Posted by BIG H

People really shouldn't rate people based on what they have seen on Boxrec ;)

Watch 20 - of Duran's fights prior to 1979 and then report back and tell us he was not a great

also ...watch him (A LIGHTWEIGHT) match possibly the greatest Middleweight in history for 12 rounds!!

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cc#800 ;D
How true and funny is that... :lolhaha:

If the shoe fights ware it. ;)

I cannot believe people are questioning Duran....what a pile of shat?!?!!!!!! Probably have not seen many fghts of his ;)

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Originally Posted by BIG H

People really shouldn't rate people based on what they have seen on Boxrec ;)

Watch 20 - of Duran's fights prior to 1979 and then report back and tell us he was not a great

also ...watch him (A LIGHTWEIGHT) match possibly the greatest Middleweight in history for 12 rounds!!

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Yep,CC big man. Also remember Duran's prime was at the lighter weights yet he still continued to fight tough tough guys at much higher weights when he was far past his prime ie Hagler and Iran Barkley.

And to compare Duran to Gatti is just embaressing. >:mad :-X

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by BIG H

People really shouldn't rate people based on what they have seen on Boxrec ;)

Watch 20 - of Duran's fights prior to 1979 and then report back and tell us he was not a great

also ...watch him (A LIGHTWEIGHT) match possibly the greatest Middleweight in history for 12 rounds!!

---

cc#800 ;D
How true and funny is that... :lolhaha:

If the shoe fights ware it. ;)

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CC back mate

and CC El Gamo

;)

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Originally Posted by BIG H

People really shouldn't rate people based on what they have seen on Boxrec ;)

Watch 20 - of Duran's fights prior to 1979 and then report back and tell us he was not a great

also ...watch him (A LIGHTWEIGHT) match possibly the greatest Middleweight in history for 12 rounds!!

---

I didn't get it off boxrec i know most of Durans fights i have watched them a good performance while losing doesn't make you top 5 he lost most of the big major fights that would of made him top 5 imo Benitez Hagler Hearns Leonard he lost trilogy so that counts as losing and he had few bad losses aswell like to Kirkland Laing who outboxed him completey and Simms who beat him aswell even though that fight was quite close he was great Lightweight but he only beat couple of good names at that weight even though i consider him greatest Lightweight he lost most of major fights when he moved up Duran is a legend but imo he isn't top 5.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by BIG H

People really shouldn't rate people based on what they have seen on Boxrec ;)

Watch 20 - of Duran's fights prior to 1979 and then report back and tell us he was not a great

also ...watch him (A LIGHTWEIGHT) match possibly the greatest Middleweight in history for 12 rounds!!

---

I didn't get it off boxrec i know most of Durans fights i have watched them a good performance while losing doesn't make you top 5 he lost most of the big major fights that would of made him top 5 imo Benitez Hagler Hearns Leonard he lost trilogy so that counts as losing and he had few bad losses aswell like to Kirkland Laing who outboxed him completey and Simms who beat him aswell even though that fight was quite close he was great Lightweight but he only beat couple of good names at that weight even though i consider him greatest Lightweight he lost most of major fights when he moved up Duran is a legend but imo he isn't top 5.

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you know i think i'm begining to think maybe i should have been a bit more clear....I'll say it so anyone who reads doesn't misunderstand me...

DURAN WAS GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREaT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT...OKAY got it now....

But top 10 ATG is ridiculous...That's all I'm saying..by him being so high is makes him the most disputed in my book...and when how he did in his fights the ones i've seen,his defining ones, he isn't top 10 ATg IMO...what makes him better than sweet pea, RJJ, BHOP, PBF, barrera....

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BIG H

People really shouldn't rate people based on what they have seen on Boxrec ;)

Watch 20 - of Duran's fights prior to 1979 and then report back and tell us he was not a great

also ...watch him (A LIGHTWEIGHT) match possibly the greatest Middleweight in history for 12 rounds!!

---

I didn't get it off boxrec i know most of Durans fights i have watched them a good performance while losing doesn't make you top 5 he lost most of the big major fights that would of made him top 5 imo Benitez Hagler Hearns Leonard he lost trilogy so that counts as losing and he had few bad losses aswell like to Kirkland Laing who outboxed him completey and Simms who beat him aswell even though that fight was quite close he was great Lightweight but he only beat couple of good names at that weight even though i consider him greatest Lightweight he lost most of major fights when he moved up Duran is a legend but imo he isn't top 5.

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you know i think i'm begining to think maybe i should have been a bit more clear....I'll say it so anyone who reads doesn't misunderstand me...

DURAN WAS GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREaT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT...OKAY got it now....

But top 10 ATG is ridiculous...That's all I'm saying..by him being so high is makes him the most disputed in my book...and when how he did in his fights the ones i've seen,his defining ones, he isn't top 10 ATg IMO...what makes him better than sweet pea, RJJ, BHOP, PBF, barrera....

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what made him better than both RJJ and PBF is that he didn't hand pick his opponants and didn't win fights by using the pitter patter run strategy, and then go on to say he beat the shit out of his opponant

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BIG H

People really shouldn't rate people based on what they have seen on Boxrec ;)

Watch 20 - of Duran's fights prior to 1979 and then report back and tell us he was not a great

also ...watch him (A LIGHTWEIGHT) match possibly the greatest Middleweight in history for 12 rounds!!

---

I didn't get it off boxrec i know most of Durans fights i have watched them a good performance while losing doesn't make you top 5 he lost most of the big major fights that would of made him top 5 imo Benitez Hagler Hearns Leonard he lost trilogy so that counts as losing and he had few bad losses aswell like to Kirkland Laing who outboxed him completey and Simms who beat him aswell even though that fight was quite close he was great Lightweight but he only beat couple of good names at that weight even though i consider him greatest Lightweight he lost most of major fights when he moved up Duran is a legend but imo he isn't top 5.

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you know i think i'm begining to think maybe i should have been a bit more clear....I'll say it so anyone who reads doesn't misunderstand me...

DURAN WAS GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREaT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT...OKAY got it now....

But top 10 ATG is ridiculous...That's all I'm saying..by him being so high is makes him the most disputed in my book...and when how he did in his fights the ones i've seen,his defining ones, he isn't top 10 ATg IMO...what makes him better than sweet pea, RJJ, BHOP, PBF, barrera....

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what made him better than both RJJ and PBF is that he didn't hand pick his opponants and didn't win fights by using the pitter patter run strategy, and then go on to say he beat the shit out of his opponant

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yeah roy destroyed his opponents in the most one sided way..120-108 UD or late TKO and floyd outboxed everyone..that's why he's still undefeated...

another thing is they actually won their defining fights....

Duran getting knocked cold by Hearns and then coming back 5 years later to win a title by beating Barkley put another brick on his legend. Had anyone other than Hearns knocked Duran cold it would have hurt his legend a little, but since it was Hearns (another great) it really did not hurt Duran's reputation. Most guys fell to Thomas Hearns.