Why are USA Heavyweights so poor?

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Originally Posted by Shape Shifter

Ron King took all their monies.

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Is Ron related to Don? ::**

Damn, you guys deleted our threads. I guess I'll have to act like a normal person now?

I wouldnt bother, you will be gone very soon.

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

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Originally Posted by Shape Shifter

Ron King took all their monies.

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Is Ron related to Don? ::**

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No, they aren't even the same race. ::**

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Originally Posted by Memphis

I wouldnt bother, you will be gone very soon.

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Ok.

The point about young American athletes taking up other sports than boxing is very valid. In these days young athletic men can get paid minimum of 285k a year(zero years experience, and up to 900k for 10 years or more) for warming a bench and helping out in practice scrims. you have guys who risk their lives, train 7 days a week and don't know WHEN their next paycheck is coming. Sports now-a-days are unionized, they take care of health, and lots of other things. Boxing is pretty much do or die. Young Talented American athletes are given scholarships for their athletic ability, so they get a great education too. Boxing usually doesn't provide that. From a fans point of view, i wish more talented athletes would get into boxing because i believe they would succeed but i can definately understand why they don't.
Also as far as comparing athletes from different sports, its just plain silly. football players are trained machines focusing on football, and boxers are trained machines focusing on boxing. ray lewis, lennox lewis...couldnt hold each others jockstraps at each others sports.
HummerH2 is an awesome machine that can get from point A to B no matter the terrain (just not as fast)
Porsche is and awesome machine that can get from point A to B in the blink of an eye (just not on dirt roads)
Both are excellent machines, but cant do each others jobs for shit, they werent designed for it.

Not to mention the the united states is 1 country. It isn't like 1 country is dominating the HWD right now, its an entire Continent. And for the United States to be dominate for so long is an accomplishment no other country will ever surpass. I mean, is it USA against the world or something? Because if so, United states has done pretty well considering the odds against them (globally)


HEAVYWEIGHT
WBC CHAMPION: OLEG MASKAEV (KAZAKHSTAN) hasnt had the belt for even a year and will most likely lose it on his first defense
WBA CHAMPION: Ruslan Chagaev (Uzbekistan) hasnt had the belt for even a year and will face Sultan ibragimov
IBF CHAMPION: Wladimir Klitschko (Ukraine) WILL unify the titles eventually, strongest HW since lennox lewis
WBO CHAMPION: Sultan Ibragimov (Russia) hasnt had the belt for even 3 months will face chagaev
Samuel Peter (Nigeria) NABF
Vladimir Virchis (Ukraine) EBU
Oliver McCall (US) INTL
Hasim Rahman (US) NABF/Interim
Juan Carlos Gomez (Cuba) LATINO
Nicolay Valuev (Russia)
Alexander Dimitrenko (Ukraine)
Donnell Holmes (US)
Alexander Povetkin (Russia)
Evander Holyfield (US)
Sinan Samil Sam (Turkey)
David Tua (New Zealand)
Calvin Brock (US)
Chris Byrd (US)
JD Chapman (US) LATINO/Interim

So there you have it.
Top 15 Heavies rated by the WBC
USA has 7 of the 19 (bout 40%)
Russia has 3
Ukraine has 3
Turkey 1
Cuba 1
New Zealand 1
Nigeria 1
Uzbekistan 1
Kazakhstan 1

where you at WELSH? 4 pages later and still no comments on YOUR thread.

American Heavyweights are often poor because they sign contracts with Don King ;D

Could it just be a shift in American boxing?

At the start of the last century the fighting 'Irish' were prominent and they were followed by Jewish fighters and Italian fighters.
African Americans have long since been the main power of American boxing. The similarities between these groups has been the poverty they grew up in at their particular time period.

With the amount of Mexicans settling in the USA and facing similar hardship due to immigration laws will they be the next group to fly the proud American flag on the boxing globe?

my guess is you have read nothing that anyone has written in this post...pls leave, it has been taken over by someone other than yourself. Have a good one..

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

Could it just be a shift in American boxing?

At the start of the last century the fighting 'Irish' were prominent and they were followed by Jewish fighters and Italian fighters.
African Americans have long since been the main power of American boxing. The similarities between these groups has been the poverty they grew up in at their particular time period.

With the amount of Mexicans settling in the USA and facing similar hardship due to immigration laws will they be the next group to fly the proud American flag on the boxing globe?

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....I have yet to see many Mexicans proud to wave the American flag....no offense to anyone but IMO other groups have assimilated better.



There are more Russians in professional boxing on the whole now because they used to be communist and did not allow their fighters to become professionals....anyone ever thought of that???


I think the US amateur program needs an overhauling though

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Originally Posted by Klitschkofan

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

What’s going on with American Heavyweights?
For almost 100 years America has dominated Boxings heaviest division but now no one.

Lamon Brewster's non effort last night against the china chinned Wladimir Klitschko just about summed up the pathetic state of the USA Heavyweights.

Americas other best Heavyweight Shannon Briggs surrendered his WBO title meekly and now Brewster does the same. Currently no American Heavyweight holds a version of the title (with the main 4 bodies)

Why are American Heavyweights so poor? Are there any prospects on the way?

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Do you have something against fighters from other countries?I could care less where they come from, if they can fight and are entertaining who cares?

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Why would I be against fighters from outside America? I live in Europe! ???
No I certainly don't mind where good Heavyweights come from. Its just there are none at the moment.
Chagaev is probably the best of the champions. But the contenders are poor and like a few have said its not just US Heavyweights.

My question is about American Heavyweight's as the US has given the World the top Heavyweights around for 100 years. Not just the Superstars but people like Ron Lyle. Ron Lyle would have broken Wladimir Klitschko or Ibragimov in half.

So is anyone on the horizon? Anyone know about the Kronk fighter Isaih Thomas?
Is Chris Arreola any good or another Vinny Maddalone? Tony Thompson?

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

my guess is you have read nothing that anyone has written in this post...pls leave, it has been taken over by someone other than yourself. Have a good one..

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Thats why I'm relpying to quotes from a few pages back ::**
So your guess is wrong, have a good day.

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

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Originally Posted by Klitschkofan

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

What’s going on with American Heavyweights?
For almost 100 years America has dominated Boxings heaviest division but now no one.

Lamon Brewster's non effort last night against the china chinned Wladimir Klitschko just about summed up the pathetic state of the USA Heavyweights.

Americas other best Heavyweight Shannon Briggs surrendered his WBO title meekly and now Brewster does the same. Currently no American Heavyweight holds a version of the title (with the main 4 bodies)

Why are American Heavyweights so poor? Are there any prospects on the way?

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Do you have something against fighters from other countries?I could care less where they come from, if they can fight and are entertaining who cares?

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Why would I be against fighters from outside America? I live in Europe! ???
No I certainly don't mind where good Heavyweights come from. Its just there are none at the moment.
Chagaev is probably the best of the champions. But the contenders are poor and like a few have said its not just US Heavyweights.

My question is about American Heavyweight's as the US has given the World the top Heavyweights around for 100 years. Not just the Superstars but people like Ron Lyle. Ron Lyle would have broken Wladimir Klitschko or Ibragimov in half.

So is anyone on the horizon? Anyone know about the Kronk fighter Isaih Thomas?
Is Chris Arreola any good or another Vinny Maddalone? Tony Thompson?

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I hardly belive Ron Lyle would break Wladimir in half.He had trouble with big guys who could punch like Cooney and Foreman.Wladimir packs a lot of power and is extremely intelligent.There isn't a name on his resume that has any similarities to Wladimir, at least that he beat.

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Originally Posted by Klitschkofan

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

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Originally Posted by Klitschkofan

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

What’s going on with American Heavyweights?
For almost 100 years America has dominated Boxings heaviest division but now no one.

Lamon Brewster's non effort last night against the china chinned Wladimir Klitschko just about summed up the pathetic state of the USA Heavyweights.

Americas other best Heavyweight Shannon Briggs surrendered his WBO title meekly and now Brewster does the same. Currently no American Heavyweight holds a version of the title (with the main 4 bodies)

Why are American Heavyweights so poor? Are there any prospects on the way?

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Do you have something against fighters from other countries?I could care less where they come from, if they can fight and are entertaining who cares?

---

Why would I be against fighters from outside America? I live in Europe! ???
No I certainly don't mind where good Heavyweights come from. Its just there are none at the moment.
Chagaev is probably the best of the champions. But the contenders are poor and like a few have said its not just US Heavyweights.

My question is about American Heavyweight's as the US has given the World the top Heavyweights around for 100 years. Not just the Superstars but people like Ron Lyle. Ron Lyle would have broken Wladimir Klitschko or Ibragimov in half.

So is anyone on the horizon? Anyone know about the Kronk fighter Isaih Thomas?
Is Chris Arreola any good or another Vinny Maddalone? Tony Thompson?

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I hardly belive Ron Lyle would break Wladimir in half.He had trouble with big guys who could punch like Cooney and Foreman.Wladimir packs a lot of power and is extremely intelligent.There isn't a name on his resume that has any similarities to Wladimir, at least that he beat.

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I think your answer shows you have hardly any idea who Ron Lyle is and I would bet you've never seen him fight.
You mention Gerry Cooney but Lyle was past it when he fought him so no need to mention him for a start. George Foreman, who is another that would walk through Wladimir, had an almighty War with Ron Lyle, Lyle traded blows with Foreman that Klitschko would get hospitalised from. I'm sure if Corrie Sanders punches too hard for Wlad then Foreman and Lyle do aswell.

Lets also not forget the War Lyle had with Earnie Shavers who is considered by many as the hardest hitting Heavyweight of alltime.(Lyle won)
I really can't see how people can rate this Klitschko so highly - he's not even the best fighter in his own family.
Anyway this thread is about American Heavyweights not the state of Ukrainian boxing. ::**

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

my guess is you have read nothing that anyone has written in this post...pls leave, it has been taken over by someone other than yourself. Have a good one..

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Thats why I'm relpying to quotes from a few pages back ::**
So your guess is wrong, have a good day.

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yea just now, on page 5, after you were called out for runnin ::**

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

my guess is you have read nothing that anyone has written in this post...pls leave, it has been taken over by someone other than yourself. Have a good one..

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Thats why I'm relpying to quotes from a few pages back ::**
So your guess is wrong, have a good day.

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yea just now, on page 5, after you were called out for runnin ::**

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Runnin? I get it your a troll/WUM or your just insane.
What are you harping on about and why and does it really matter.
Take a step back, take a look at yourself and get a grip.

Its also access to training,and places to do it
How many gyms are there in any City anymore?
How many Football Fields?
How many Basketball COurts?

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

Not to mention the the united states is 1 country. It isn't like 1 country is dominating the HWD right now, its an entire Continent. And for the United States to be dominate for so long is an accomplishment no other country will ever surpass. I mean, is it USA against the world or something? Because if so, United states has done pretty well considering the odds against them (globally)


HEAVYWEIGHT
WBC CHAMPION: OLEG MASKAEV (KAZAKHSTAN) hasnt had the belt for even a year and will most likely lose it on his first defense
WBA CHAMPION: Ruslan Chagaev (Uzbekistan) hasnt had the belt for even a year and will face Sultan ibragimov
IBF CHAMPION: Wladimir Klitschko (Ukraine) WILL unify the titles eventually, strongest HW since lennox lewis
WBO CHAMPION: Sultan Ibragimov (Russia) hasnt had the belt for even 3 months will face chagaev
Samuel Peter (Nigeria) NABF
Vladimir Virchis (Ukraine) EBU
Oliver McCall (US) INTL
Hasim Rahman (US) NABF/Interim
Juan Carlos Gomez (Cuba) LATINO
Nicolay Valuev (Russia)
Alexander Dimitrenko (Ukraine)
Donnell Holmes (US)
Alexander Povetkin (Russia)
Evander Holyfield (US)
Sinan Samil Sam (Turkey)
David Tua (New Zealand)
Calvin Brock (US)
Chris Byrd (US)
JD Chapman (US) LATINO/Interim

So there you have it.
Top 15 Heavies rated by the WBC
USA has 7 of the 19 (bout 40%)
Russia has 3
Ukraine has 3
Turkey 1
Cuba 1
New Zealand 1
Nigeria 1
Uzbekistan 1
Kazakhstan 1

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Oliver McCall the highest ranked US Heavyweight! Ain't he 40 now. There must be someone better than him?

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

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Originally Posted by Klitschkofan

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

What’s going on with American Heavyweights?
For almost 100 years America has dominated Boxings heaviest division but now no one.

Lamon Brewster's non effort last night against the china chinned Wladimir Klitschko just about summed up the pathetic state of the USA Heavyweights.

Americas other best Heavyweight Shannon Briggs surrendered his WBO title meekly and now Brewster does the same. Currently no American Heavyweight holds a version of the title (with the main 4 bodies)

Why are American Heavyweights so poor? Are there any prospects on the way?

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Do you have something against fighters from other countries?I could care less where they come from, if they can fight and are entertaining who cares?

---

Why would I be against fighters from outside America? I live in Europe! ???
No I certainly don't mind where good Heavyweights come from. Its just there are none at the moment.
Chagaev is probably the best of the champions. But the contenders are poor and like a few have said its not just US Heavyweights.

My question is about American Heavyweight's as the US has given the World the top Heavyweights around for 100 years. Not just the Superstars but people like Ron Lyle. Ron Lyle would have broken Wladimir Klitschko or Ibragimov in half.

So is anyone on the horizon? Anyone know about the Kronk fighter Isaih Thomas?
Is Chris Arreola any good or another Vinny Maddalone? Tony Thompson?

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Isiah Thomas is suppose to be the next great heavyweight.

Why dose the rest of the world suck at football?
Why do farts smell?
Why are boobs cool?........ it just is the way it is.

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

Not to mention the the united states is 1 country. It isn't like 1 country is dominating the HWD right now, its an entire Continent. And for the United States to be dominate for so long is an accomplishment no other country will ever surpass. I mean, is it USA against the world or something? Because if so, United states has done pretty well considering the odds against them (globally)


HEAVYWEIGHT
WBC CHAMPION: OLEG MASKAEV (KAZAKHSTAN) hasnt had the belt for even a year and will most likely lose it on his first defense
WBA CHAMPION: Ruslan Chagaev (Uzbekistan) hasnt had the belt for even a year and will face Sultan ibragimov
IBF CHAMPION: Wladimir Klitschko (Ukraine) WILL unify the titles eventually, strongest HW since lennox lewis
WBO CHAMPION: Sultan Ibragimov (Russia) hasnt had the belt for even 3 months will face chagaev
Samuel Peter (Nigeria) NABF
Vladimir Virchis (Ukraine) EBU
Oliver McCall (US) INTL
Hasim Rahman (US) NABF/Interim
Juan Carlos Gomez (Cuba) LATINO
Nicolay Valuev (Russia)
Alexander Dimitrenko (Ukraine)
Donnell Holmes (US)
Alexander Povetkin (Russia)
Evander Holyfield (US)
Sinan Samil Sam (Turkey)
David Tua (New Zealand)
Calvin Brock (US)
Chris Byrd (US)
JD Chapman (US) LATINO/Interim

So there you have it.
Top 15 Heavies rated by the WBC
USA has 7 of the 19 (bout 40%)
Russia has 3
Ukraine has 3
Turkey 1
Cuba 1
New Zealand 1
Nigeria 1
Uzbekistan 1
Kazakhstan 1

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Oliver McCall the highest ranked US Heavyweight! Ain't he 40 now. There must be someone better than him?

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with all that you have read ::** the only thing you take out of it is oliver McCall?
Cmon, give me a break..

Why are USA Heavyweights so poor?

High taxes
shifty promoters
manager's lawsuits
gold digger girlfriends

Oh you mean skillwise, my bad.

Of course you know Maskaev, Peter, and Liakhovich are U.S. citizens.

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Originally Posted by ghoster

Why are USA Heavyweights so poor?

High taxes
shifty promoters
manager's lawsuits
gold digger girlfriends

Oh you mean skillwise, my bad.

Of course you know Maskaev, Peter, and Liakhovich are U.S. citizens.

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Alright Ghoster,

That lot are about as American as Ike Ibeabuchi ;D

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

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Originally Posted by Klitschkofan

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

What’s going on with American Heavyweights?
For almost 100 years America has dominated Boxings heaviest division but now no one.

Lamon Brewster's non effort last night against the china chinned Wladimir Klitschko just about summed up the pathetic state of the USA Heavyweights.

Americas other best Heavyweight Shannon Briggs surrendered his WBO title meekly and now Brewster does the same. Currently no American Heavyweight holds a version of the title (with the main 4 bodies)

Why are American Heavyweights so poor? Are there any prospects on the way?

---

Do you have something against fighters from other countries?I could care less where they come from, if they can fight and are entertaining who cares?

---

Why would I be against fighters from outside America? I live in Europe! ???
No I certainly don't mind where good Heavyweights come from. Its just there are none at the moment.
Chagaev is probably the best of the champions. But the contenders are poor and like a few have said its not just US Heavyweights.

My question is about American Heavyweight's as the US has given the World the top Heavyweights around for 100 years. Not just the Superstars but people like Ron Lyle. Ron Lyle would have broken Wladimir Klitschko or Ibragimov in half.

So is anyone on the horizon? Anyone know about the Kronk fighter Isaih Thomas?
Is Chris Arreola any good or another Vinny Maddalone? Tony Thompson?

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Isiah Thomas is suppose to be the next great heavyweight.

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I certainly hope so, boxing needs an American at the top of the Heavyweight division.

The way things currently look Alexander Povetkin is going to march his way straight to the title.

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

Not to mention the the united states is 1 country. It isn't like 1 country is dominating the HWD right now, its an entire Continent. And for the United States to be dominate for so long is an accomplishment no other country will ever surpass. I mean, is it USA against the world or something? Because if so, United states has done pretty well considering the odds against them (globally)


HEAVYWEIGHT
WBC CHAMPION: OLEG MASKAEV (KAZAKHSTAN) hasnt had the belt for even a year and will most likely lose it on his first defense
WBA CHAMPION: Ruslan Chagaev (Uzbekistan) hasnt had the belt for even a year and will face Sultan ibragimov
IBF CHAMPION: Wladimir Klitschko (Ukraine) WILL unify the titles eventually, strongest HW since lennox lewis
WBO CHAMPION: Sultan Ibragimov (Russia) hasnt had the belt for even 3 months will face chagaev
Samuel Peter (Nigeria) NABF
Vladimir Virchis (Ukraine) EBU
Oliver McCall (US) INTL
Hasim Rahman (US) NABF/Interim
Juan Carlos Gomez (Cuba) LATINO
Nicolay Valuev (Russia)
Alexander Dimitrenko (Ukraine)
Donnell Holmes (US)
Alexander Povetkin (Russia)
Evander Holyfield (US)
Sinan Samil Sam (Turkey)
David Tua (New Zealand)
Calvin Brock (US)
Chris Byrd (US)
JD Chapman (US) LATINO/Interim

So there you have it.
Top 15 Heavies rated by the WBC
USA has 7 of the 19 (bout 40%)
Russia has 3
Ukraine has 3
Turkey 1
Cuba 1
New Zealand 1
Nigeria 1
Uzbekistan 1
Kazakhstan 1

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Oliver McCall the highest ranked US Heavyweight! Ain't he 40 now. There must be someone better than him?

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with all that you have read ::** the only thing you take out of it is oliver McCall?
Cmon, give me a break..

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Great stuff compiling the list Deuce.
How good is Donnell Holmes?

That Canadian fighter Bermane Stiverne looks a top prospect.

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Originally Posted by ghoster

Why are USA Heavyweights so poor?

High taxes
shifty promoters
manager's lawsuits
gold digger girlfriends

Oh you mean skillwise, my bad.

Of course you know Maskaev, Peter, and Liakhovich are U.S. citizens.

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High Taxes???


Guys, I think my explination sums it up: Lyakhovich - Belarus, Maskaev - Russia, Wladimir & Vitali - Ukraine, Sultan - Russia, Valuev - Russia, Chagaev - Uzbekistan....all of those countries were in the USSR and being communist they were not allowed to go pro unless they defected much like the Cuban fighters.

The reason Tefilo Stevenson and Felix Savon amongst others stayed in the amateurs forever is FIDEL CASTRO.



It's not a matter of where are the American heavyweights it's there's finally a LARGE group of people who can box professionally and they are showing they are just as good as everyone else

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Originally Posted by Lyle

It's not a matter of where are the American heavyweights it's there's finally a LARGE group of people who can box professionally and they are showing they are just as good as everyone else

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Obviously this is true to a certain point. If the Soviet Union still existed (and none of their boxers fought professionally), American fighters would still have their hands on a few titles. Truth be told, the only non-American, non-(ex)Soviet fighter with a genuine shot at a title these days is Sam Peter.

But that being said, even if they did hold titles the current American HW's are a far cry from the HW's of 10-15 years ago. It speaks volumes that I would actually rate McCall higher on a 'American heavyweight ranking' now, than I would have 5-10 or 15 years ago. And to be honest, from a historical perspective it isn't even that that generation was extraordinarily strong, but that this generation is extraordinarily weak.

One year on and has anyone stepped upto the plate?

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

One year on and has anyone stepped upto the plate?

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Hupefully Dave Haye may

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Originally Posted by plopeater

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

One year on and has anyone stepped upto the plate?

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Hupefully Dave Haye may

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Ah but he's not American.;)

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

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Originally Posted by plopeater

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

One year on and has anyone stepped upto the plate?

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Hupefully Dave Haye may

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Ah but he's not American.;)

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Sorry misreed it

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Originally Posted by plopeater

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

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Originally Posted by plopeater

Hupefully Dave Haye may

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Ah but he's not American.;)

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Sorry misreed it

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It will come. And when it does there will probably be a few come out of the woodwork!!!

Because once upon a time, all boxers understood they had to be well-conditioned athletes. But now... in the age of instant-gratification, some HWs think all they need is a big punch (like the home run swing in baseball), and to hell with conditioning. So a lot of them will swing for the fences, but will gas out after a couple of rounds.

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Originally Posted by southakron314

Why dose the rest of the world suck at football?
Why do farts smell?
Why are boobs cool?........ it just is the way it is.

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When did Brazil suck at football?:-\

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

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Originally Posted by southakron314

Why dose the rest of the world suck at football?
Why do farts smell?
Why are boobs cool?........ it just is the way it is.

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When did Brazil suck at football?:-\

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I think he means NFL Football;)