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Calzaghe has fought 5 former Champions and one unification. Hopkins seven and 2 unifications, Not that much differnce and before anyone starts chatting shit about Trinadad and Dela Hoya they are both not Middleweights. Hopkins has stepped up and is now fighting Winky agter Tarver but lets see what Clazaghe does after Kessler. Hopkins had about the same resume as Calzaghe at this stage of his career and about the same age.
He's World class, right on the brink of fame, it all depends on his last 3-4 fights I think hes got left.
You are not looking at this from a welsh point of view then lol ;D ;D ;D ;D ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob
If Joe wanted Jones or Hopkins as he is a lesser name , he should have gone to them not made excuses.
That doesnt make sense? Go over fight in America for probably a tenth of what he would of got to fight Hopkins in Britain and the same with Hopkins getting paid alot less than what he would if he went to Britain, why do you think the Calzaghe fight with Kessler is in Wales and not Denmark or USA? Because the money for everyone concerned is in Wales, in the instance with Hopkins it doesnt matter who the lesser name is, its about business why fight in one place when both of you can earn so much more in another? Im not sure if any fighter in the whole history of boxing has fought someone at a venue where they get paid little in comparison to if they fought at another venue? Hopkins was getting his biggest payday at that stage in his carear, but why does no one dis respect him for this? I dont get it, imagine it was Joe who turned down his biggest payday to go to the States fuck me this forum would probably blow up with the amount of insults he would be getting thrown his way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Jones is one thing. Jones is a little above Calzaghe in terms of competition past '94 through '03 imo. A great fighter, who got off to a tremendously fast start by beating Hopkins and Toney, then pretty much flatlining in the scope of big fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Hopkins has had big fights time in and time out and consistently throughout his career. Jones and Calzaghe didn't.
Hopkins fought RJJ when he was a challenger, until Trinadad he didnt really fight any exceptional fighters so he was 36 years old, he fought 7 past World Champs and fought two unifications that includes Trinadad and Dela Hoya, Calzaghe when and if he beats Kessler has fought 6 past World Champs and 2 unifications aswell, its just the fact the 168 division hasnt been blessed with the biggest names in boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
As for my opinion of him. Well I hate him. I'm a Lacy fan and he (or his camp, whatever, but I'm going to just blame that on Calzaghe) annoyed me to no end in the dealings of the Lacy fight. Agreeing, fighting a meaningless tune up and breaking his hand, rescheduling and then still insisting upon Lacy coming to England when Joe needed Jeff a lot more then Jeff needed Joe at that point. And then of course he ruined about my whole month when they did get it on....
But he's a fighter, who at his best, is definitely among the finest in the world. I don't need to say much, but his aggression, hand speed, balance and fire are pretty much unparalleled right now in his division.
He may be a bit brash, and an ass sometimes but there is no denying that on his night, he is one of the truly great boxers fighting right now.
cc mate, nice to see a guy who can respect a good boxer even if your notthe biggest fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
And 160 during the Hopkins era was? He still managed big and meaningful fights. I don't care if he was a challenger, or if De La Hoya and Trinidad were welterweights before. They were big fights, and he won a good chunk of them. He had his name in the news, even if it meant searching a bit. And it's not like they weren't fights that nobody wanted to see and were blatant mismatches, they were good matchups that everyone was excited about.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
Not to mention fights that weren't high profile against good boxers like Glen Johnson and Simon Brown.
You may love Calzaghe, that's fine, I love Nicolinno Locche who never left his country in his prime to score big fights. But he hasn't got the fights he needs for whatever reason. You can say that Hopkins didn't make the fight happen, but Hopkins had big bouts under his belt while Joe outside of the English spectrum didn't.
He got it done versus Lacy, it was an outstanding performance that he deserves a ton of credit for but past that he hasn't really fought anyone. Robin Reid was a good fighter. So was Brewer but past that there isn't much depth.
Doesn't take anything away from him as a fighter, and you really can't blame all Joe. Plus fighting in front of packed houses all the time, he must feel like he does have those big fights. And if he can get Kessler and someone else, then a lot of those criticisms disappear.
Ok you make some good points, but firstly Calzaghe hasn't always been the Home boy against Reid he was the away fighter, he also has beaton a good fighter in Woodhall who was a WBC fighter and Byron Mitchell who also was a World Champion, the same Glen Johnson was not the same fighter he has been in the last five years, the same Glen johnson was beaton by Omar Sheika who in his next fight was battered in 5 by Calzaghe, Hopkins Trinadad i agree was a great fight and Hopkins was in there as a big dog and props to him but up unitl then his resume is not disimilar to Calzaghes like i said, Joe is now 35 similar age to Bernard was and is now getting the recognition and big fights which he has craved his whole career. I dont love Calzaghe i think he is an awesome fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Fair play, I actually meant to say Mitchell instead of Brewer. Not even sure he fought Brewer. I think so though.
And I get what you mean about both getting fights later on in their careers, understand that completely though I still think Hopkins had the better record overall even before Trinidad. But that's down to opinion really, and I meant nothing by saying you love Calzaghe btw, I say I love fighters all the time.
CC 239
JC is a superbly skilled fighter who just needs 2 or 3 more big wins to establish himself as a legend. His skills are superb and clear for all to see.
:) My opinion of Calzaghi,is that we have not seen him at his best, cos he aint fought anyone who was good enough, to put pressure on him , to bring out the survival instinct that all great fighters posses, thats not Joes fault, he can only beat the guys in his time, so he will allways be, a only IF fighter ;)
Superheavyhun, believe me that mine is one of the most non biased opinions you can find, I have no love affair with fighters whether they are from Britain or if they are all american stars... Joe Calzaghe is a great undefeated P4P fighter, nobody can say otherwise cause the guy has the boxing skills to make a dangerous puncher like Lacy look silly, he has the loose muscled, fluid punching power to knock down one sturdy chin in Eubanks and in the first punch he throws, he has the heart to comeback from a knockdown and still take Mitchell in the same 2 round, he has the handspeed and the footwork to leave Brewer, Manfredo, Veit clueless... Why he is not an all time P 4 P great? That's easy to answer... Cause he has Frank Warren to keep him away from the fights which would make him shine brighter, Bernard Hopkins, Winky Wright, Jermain Taylor... At least, he's gonna fight Kessler and obviously beat him but this Cardiff Welsh backyard thang still sucks BIG TIME!!!
The point i was making is , if you cant get the career difining fights in your home town you sometimes have to go elsewere , if Joe wanted those big names then with a bit of sacrafice could have got them , thats my point , oviously in an ideal world you get as much money as you can.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
But if u want to be regarded as a GREAT then you have to fight the big names which Joe has not .
I love it...totally ridiculous.
There is only one viable option.
Joe is P4P the best in his division. Period. He's a true champ & bum does not even apply.
There's two schools of thought when it comes to Joe Calzaghe. The fans point to his undefeated record, and his impressive win over Jeff Lacy. His detractors point to his lack of quality opposition, and his frustrating inability to stay busy and face some of the logical opposition out there.
IMO, the ball is squarely on Joe's court. He can either:
a. Concentrate on retiring with an undefeated record, and leave everything in the hands of his promoter, the ever unpopular Warren, or.......
b. He can demand that his promoter get him the fights that are going to raise his stock among ALL boxing fans, not just his die-hard fans. And if Warren isn't up to the task, fire his a$$.
Let's face it, boxing's all about perception. Until Calzaghe faces the Kesslers, the Pavliks, the Taylors..... even if he has to travel to the U.S. to do it, his image in the eyes of some boxing fans (myself included) is going to be well short of p4p list considerations.
IMHO, of course.
CC,good post. You make your points well. Does he earn your respect for fighting Kessler?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
BIG H can i tell you something now not alot of fighters beat great fighters in there prime there isn't that many that have but Jones beat Toney in his prime and he also beat Hopkins and Hill all 3 of those guys will probably be in hall of fame ok so maybe they wern't quite in there prime but there still great wins and he also beat other good fighters like.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Montel Griffin
Eric Harding
Clinton Woods
Reggie Johnson
Vinny Pazienza
Julio Cesar Gonzalez
James Toney
Bernard Hopkins
Virgil Hill
Compare that to Calzaghes best wins
Byron Mitchell
Charles Brewer
Richie Woodhall
Mario Veit
Omar Sheika
Robin Reid
Chris Eubank Weight drained and past it
Thanks bro... CC back.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
It's not that I don't respect Calzaghe now. After all, he IS undefeated... and he DID beat Lacy convincingly. And people may dis Lacy now. But before the Calzaghe fight, there were a lot of Lacy believers who have since leaped off the bandwagon.
But Calzaghe needs to do more, IMO, to join the ranks of the warriors who have taken on good fighter after good fighter, without the excuse of promoters or venues to get in the way.
But yeah, if Calzaghe fights Kessler (sooner, rather than later) and beats him convincingly, his stock goes up in my book. Maybe still not top five p4p, but improving.
lol jones beat toney and hopkins in thier prime... hopkins and roy were green as hell and toney was weight drained to shit...Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
I just said Hopkins wern't in his prime read what i said and forgetting if Toney was weight drained he didn't have like 12 days to get into shape plus Roy Jones was moving up and James Toney was in his prime Toney was the man at that weight and Jones shut him out and Hill Toney Hopkins will probably be in hall of fame yes Hopkins hadn't quite peaked yet but it was still great win and so was Toney and Hill victorys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Joe is definately a world class fighter. Im not a huge Calzaghe fan, but he is without a doubt in the top 10 P4P.
Even though Cal is world class I dont think people should talk about the Kessler fight like Cal allrdy won it.... I personal think its going helluvafight and its going to be a very close.
Could it be possible to write "if Cal beats Kess" instead of "when Cal beats Kess"
Statements like that makes some of you guys seem very arrogant just like alot of the wimps on eastside...
Thx
He's world class, who has a chance to make it to all-time p4p status, he just needs to make compromises in his future contractual deals.
Hey man, I think that as on every forum there are a percentage of people who think that either fighter will beat the other fighter easily, so they're just doing it to emphasise a point, and it isn't necassarily just Calzaghe fans either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elviz
Anyhow, it looks as though the majority of people on the poll have Calzaghe as a world class fighter, but not quite making it into the p4p great status, which he is obviously aiming for. And not too many people calling him a bum either, which is just an option I put in to have the full spectrum of options there.
I agree he was let down bigtime by Warren. I remember when Mickey Duff was on the scene and along came Warren to muscle in. I think once Duff retired Warren became complacent and started dealing with jarg sanctioning bodies. its a shame calzaghe never had a manager like Duff throught his career. Duff was class Warren couldnt even carry Duffs jockstrap.Quote:
Originally Posted by katfight
Ovverated hu has fought no one good I mean why's he fighting contender bums at this day in age?
:dummespost:Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
Ye so u think Calzaghe's a pound for pound man then who beat Lacy and Eubank over 12 hu couldn't ko them and there his 2 biggest opponents where as Hatton ko'd Kosta and Castillo
He only knocks out bums Calzaghe. The most ovverated british boxer ever!!
because all this fucking reality tv is making stars of untalented people and naive people who know fuck all about boxing think these no mark boxers are great just because theyve been on tv and plus they pull in good ratings. higher ratings more advertising cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
Pernell Whitaker didn't knock many people out - was he crap too ???Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
Jc's hands are fooked - you try knocking someone out with a broken hand ;)
He actually didn't KO Manfredo it was stopped by a poor decision!
Its time for the taxi when you regard not being able to KO Eubank as some sort of failing.
Calzaghe is a great fighter who hasn't proven himself! He fought bums up until Lacy and destroyed the next big thing. That was simply a lesson in boxing!!! He fought an extremely tricky Bika, who used his head constantly and would've given anyone trouble fighting that way and then fought another bum (to get publicity) in Manfredo!!
So we know he has got talent and now he has 4 fights to prove it!! If he beats Kessler he has beaten the only other worthy fighter at SMW (sorry Froch, you came too late). He has said that will be his last fight at SMW - I doubt that, I think there will be a fight with Taylor at SMW first. Then the winner of Winky and B-Hop and then I think a step up and fight Dawson (the best at LHW) and then you have yourself a HOF.
Calzaghe is a quality fighter who now has to put his money where his mouth is. And leave the valleys to do so!
Well said BubbleBox thats when Joe Calzaghe should get respect ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
cc seanie
world class fighter
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...erreldodge.gifLove the av ds91
That was like poetry in motion that was his fight against Williams wasn't it ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel
I think that was Terrell actually. Not positive but I think so.