Re: SUGAR RAY LEONARD - HOW GREAT??
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Interesting stuff fellas - if I was rating teh fab four p4p I would say
Duran
Hagler
Leonard
Hearns
How is Duran rated higher he lost all big fights like.
Wilfredo Benitez
Kirkland Laing
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns in brutal fashion
Robbie Sims
His best wins were Iran Barkley and Pipino Cuevas and Davey Moore and he lost to guys like Laing and Simms who he shouldn't of lost to no way is Duran the best of the 4.
You obviously know more than almost all the respected boxing writers in the world that almost unanimously have Duran in the top 5 fighters of all time. ;)
Problem is that you have not seen his career as a lightweight which is where he is a should be rated. He had already had 75 fights before any of the fights you mentioned and the loses were after he moved up atleast 2 weights - he was 71-1 at Lightweight FFS. Beat Sugar Ray Leonard at Welter, was level after 12 against Hagler at Middle all of this after over 70 fights!!
He started his career at 119 pounds, was 5'7 and had a 26" reach, is it really a surprisde that he lost to 6'1 Thomas Hearns at 154 pounds??
When you make comments like this about Duran you come across as a 'Johnnycomelately" whose only knowledge of Duran's career is what you have seen on Boxrec ;)
And Chavez was 89-0 before he lost he should be top 5 aswell then ?? im making comments on what i think about Duran and 5 is way too high imo he only beat 2 good names at Lightweight Ken and Esteban and them 2 names shouldn't make you top 5 yes he had amazing record but top 5 of all time ?? surley not.
He started his career at 119 pounds, was 5'7 and had a 26" reach, is it really a surprisde that he lost to 6'1 Thomas Hearns at 154 pounds??
It doesn't matter he still lost in brutal fashion Duran lost most of the big fights like losing the trilogy against Leonard losing to Hagler yes he gave good account of himself but still lost he lost to Hearns in 2 rounds and he lost to Wilfredo Benitez and just because i disagree i have to look up on boxrec ?? i have watched many Duran fights and have studied up on him not on boxrec either.
Re: SUGAR RAY LEONARD - HOW GREAT??
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Interesting stuff fellas - if I was rating teh fab four p4p I would say
Duran
Hagler
Leonard
Hearns
How is Duran rated higher he lost all big fights like.
Wilfredo Benitez
Kirkland Laing
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns in brutal fashion
Robbie Sims
His best wins were Iran Barkley and Pipino Cuevas and Davey Moore and he lost to guys like Laing and Simms who he shouldn't of lost to no way is Duran the best of the 4.
You obviously know more than almost all the respected boxing writers in the world that almost unanimously have Duran in the top 5 fighters of all time. ;)
Problem is that you have not seen his career as a lightweight which is where he is a should be rated. He had already had 75 fights before any of the fights you mentioned and the loses were after he moved up atleast 2 weights - he was 71-1 at Lightweight FFS. Beat Sugar Ray Leonard at Welter, was level after 12 against Hagler at Middle all of this after over 70 fights!!
He started his career at 119 pounds, was 5'7 and had a 26" reach, is it really a surprisde that he lost to 6'1 Thomas Hearns at 154 pounds??
When you make comments like this about Duran you come across as a 'Johnnycomelately" whose only knowledge of Duran's career is what you have seen on Boxrec ;)
And Chavez was 89-0 before he lost he should be top 5 aswell then ?? im making comments on what i think about Duran and 5 is way too high imo he only beat 2 good names at Lightweight Ken and Esteban and them 2 names shouldn't make you top 5 yes he had amazing record but top 5 of all time ?? surley not.
He started his career at 119 pounds, was 5'7 and had a 26" reach, is it really a surprisde that he lost to 6'1 Thomas Hearns at 154 pounds??
It doesn't matter he still lost in brutal fashion Duran lost most of the big fights like losing the trilogy against Leonard losing to Hagler yes he gave good account of himself but still lost he lost to Hearns in 2 rounds and he lost to Wilfredo Benitez and just because i disagree i have to look up on boxrec ?? i have watched many Duran fights and have studied up on him not on boxrec either.
I agree with you ICB that Duran is not an all time top 5 P4P but is an all time top 5 LW........
You have to cut him some slack on the Hearns starching though.........I don't care who you are from 140-160 if you were caught with that shot flush you were laying down........Almost without question...With the exception of Marvin Hagler who seemed to have the chin of freaking GRANITE!!!!!....
Also these guys were the elite of all time....The speed the heart the power every single one of them from the 80's Duran, Hagler, Leonard, Hearns....Just in a whole different league then everyone else
[youtube=425,350]3oSb21Vx5rE[/youtube]
Re: SUGAR RAY LEONARD - HOW GREAT??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
The night of Leonard v Hearns Id been in Boxing 15 years. What I saw that night were the best 2 welters Ive ever seen who on that night would have beaten any other, living or dead.
I've NEVER, EVER seen a guy invent a way to beat a guy as well as the way he did. I'm often in complete awe of Leonard's skill in the ring. He wasn't the strongest or the hardest hitter, but he was the epitome, the epicenter of heart meets skill meets finesse and cunning.
Easily an all-time great in one of, if not THE greatest era boxing will ever know.
Re: SUGAR RAY LEONARD - HOW GREAT??
Well i have SRL on my greatest of all time list at number 10 if not for the lay off he be giving SRR a run for his money in my book. The beat Benitez, Hearns, Duran, and Hagler yea he beat him because Hagler gave alot of rounds away trying to out box him big mistake. he also was a champion in WW,LMW,MW,SMW,LHW how much more could he have done not to many people have been champion in 5 different weight classes and beaten 4 HOF and that was with him having a layoff for most of his prime. With out a doubt in my mind he is alltime great and if you have him lower then 11 or 12 i think you hating on the guy i have him at number 10 atg list of mine.
Re: SUGAR RAY LEONARD - HOW GREAT??
Sugar Ray ws great.
Perhaps he's not top ten p4p ever, but thats because of the guys in front of him.
When Sugar Ray fought Tommy Hearns the first time, I think they were the two most dangerous welters ever.
That night both showed sublime skill and speed, toughness, power, heart and Ray exhibited serious finishing skills (we already knew Tommy had those.)
He is great.
