Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Wow, I've never really discussed this fight much, I guess I was not around here at the time. I thought Marquez won it clearly. I've only seen it once, I don't remember how I scored each exact round but I'm Miles I'm surprised you had Barrera winning the 11th and having the 12th a draw. I clearly thought he swept the last three, I remember that for sure. I thought JMM was getting more dominant as the fight went on, especially those last three.
As for why I scored the fight the way I did, I thought it was clear who was doing damage, and that was JMM. MAB worked the jab pretty well and did pretty well early (again I can't remember round for round, I may download it actually and watch it again just to see if maybe I was wrong slightly but honestly I can't see how my card would change that much. That and I'd have to sit through Lampley verbally massaging Barrera's genitals for another 12 rounds.) But I thought JMM was slicker, seemed more accurate with power punches, landed the far better punches, and when they exchanged I thought he got the best almost every time. I tend to side with effective damaging punching more in scoring a fight though so maybe that's why I thought it was so clear.
Fair points. :coolclick:, for bringing up specific rounds that I should re-evaluate.
I do still think that Barrera won the 11th. He controlled the majority of the round with his jab. Marquez landed some nice blows but for much of the round was ineffective. I conceded earlier in the thread that the even rounds were possibly Marquez rounds. I think those were the 5th and 12th. Barrera does indeed have his moments in the 12th also though.
An awkward fight to score and thats the main reason why I wanted it discussed.
CC. I thought JMM won it fairly clearly but I've only seen it once.
I'm going to download it and watch it again with the sound off.
I mean I've been a big Barrera fan for a while but I almost started rooting for JMM during the fight because of HBO's commentary. It was that bad, Lampley was crediting Barrera for landing punches that he never threw. Just think if Lampley loved Winky like he does Barrera, Winky could just stay in his shell, throw no punches, and win a UD on Lampley's scorecard. I actually am going to watch it again with no sound, to see if maybe I gave JMM too much of the benefit of the doubt because I was so disgusted by Lampley. If that makes any sense at all. ??? Cause I was shocked to see people thought Barrera won actually, I guess I was really out of the loop around the time of this fight and I didn't see what people on here thought about it.
I initially watched it on the Korean networks so I had no need to worry about bias. I had Barrera edging it by a point or two. I recently decided to reevaluate and watch it again and I did score it Barrera by 3 points. I watched it again. The two rounds I gave as even are the only rounds that are not clear but must be scored to someone and so I do see how the edge might go to Marquez in those. Especially the 5th.
Marquez had 2 huge rounds in the fight and that does seem to have sewn most of the opinions on this fight. But if you take it on a round by round basis, I find it incredibly hard to make a case for JMM winning. A dominant round is still equal to a round won in a less domineering fashion.
I thought Marquez was more consistent that that. I didn't seriously score the bout, if I want to seriously score a fight I usually do it the second time I watch it. But I remember giving Marquez 7 rounds, and there was another round I just couldn't make up my mind on, and since I only watched it live I couldn't rewind it and make sure.
But I guess there's no point until I see it again. If I can get it downloaded I'll come up with a round by round.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
great fight (not fight of the year bell vs.mormeck 2 imo)
only saw it twice but a i remebered i first thought it was a draw the second i thought jmm won
i thouht jmm was moving good punches look fluid seem like he started good caught his second wind nade close at then end
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Julius Rain
JMM WON, the knock down should of counted but it doesn't change the outcome. JMM STILL WON!!!!!!!
jmm made the fight, he caught mab more and more often. MAB didn't do more to deserve the win. JMM took it and JMM deserved it, end of story.
And Also what do you mean Barrera didn't do more to deserve to win ?? Barrera fought his heart out threw more and landed more.
Ice, your opinions on the fight are much the same as when the fight was just over. The points you make are consistent to say the least. I respect that.
Besides Oumafan, nobody has been able to come on here and suggest discussion for any particular rounds in the fight. Nobody has been able to break down the fight and say how it was scored.
All I wanted here was a discussion and all we have are statements of the ilk of Mr Julius Rain! :-\
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by OumaFan
Wow, I've never really discussed this fight much, I guess I was not around here at the time. I thought Marquez won it clearly. I've only seen it once, I don't remember how I scored each exact round but I'm Miles I'm surprised you had Barrera winning the 11th and having the 12th a draw. I clearly thought he swept the last three, I remember that for sure. I thought JMM was getting more dominant as the fight went on, especially those last three.
As for why I scored the fight the way I did, I thought it was clear who was doing damage, and that was JMM. MAB worked the jab pretty well and did pretty well early (again I can't remember round for round, I may download it actually and watch it again just to see if maybe I was wrong slightly but honestly I can't see how my card would change that much. That and I'd have to sit through Lampley verbally massaging Barrera's genitals for another 12 rounds.) But I thought JMM was slicker, seemed more accurate with power punches, landed the far better punches, and when they exchanged I thought he got the best almost every time. I tend to side with effective damaging punching more in scoring a fight though so maybe that's why I thought it was so clear.
Fair points. :coolclick:, for bringing up specific rounds that I should re-evaluate.
I do still think that Barrera won the 11th. He controlled the majority of the round with his jab. Marquez landed some nice blows but for much of the round was ineffective. I conceded earlier in the thread that the even rounds were possibly Marquez rounds. I think those were the 5th and 12th. Barrera does indeed have his moments in the 12th also though.
An awkward fight to score and thats the main reason why I wanted it discussed.
CC. I thought JMM won it fairly clearly but I've only seen it once.
I'm going to download it and watch it again with the sound off.
I mean I've been a big Barrera fan for a while but I almost started rooting for JMM during the fight because of HBO's commentary. It was that bad, Lampley was crediting Barrera for landing punches that he never threw. Just think if Lampley loved Winky like he does Barrera, Winky could just stay in his shell, throw no punches, and win a UD on Lampley's scorecard. I actually am going to watch it again with no sound, to see if maybe I gave JMM too much of the benefit of the doubt because I was so disgusted by Lampley. If that makes any sense at all. ??? Cause I was shocked to see people thought Barrera won actually, I guess I was really out of the loop around the time of this fight and I didn't see what people on here thought about it.
I initially watched it on the Korean networks so I had no need to worry about bias. I had Barrera edging it by a point or two. I recently decided to reevaluate and watch it again and I did score it Barrera by 3 points. I watched it again. The two rounds I gave as even are the only rounds that are not clear but must be scored to someone and so I do see how the edge might go to Marquez in those. Especially the 5th.
Marquez had 2 huge rounds in the fight and that does seem to have sewn most of the opinions on this fight. But if you take it on a round by round basis, I find it incredibly hard to make a case for JMM winning. A dominant round is still equal to a round won in a less domineering fashion.
I thought Marquez was more consistent that that. I didn't seriously score the bout, if I want to seriously score a fight I usually do it the second time I watch it. But I remember giving Marquez 7 rounds, and there was another round I just couldn't make up my mind on, and since I only watched it live I couldn't rewind it and make sure.
But I guess there's no point until I see it again. If I can get it downloaded I'll come up with a round by round.
I will be interested to see your Round by Round. A quality fight, the judges for that fight were typically awful though! :-\
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
I think at the time I scored it for Marquez, but very close. I remember thinking it could of gone either way though
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by the wiz
I think at the time I scored it for Marquez, but very close. I remember thinking it could of gone either way though
The knock down calling was a disgrace. Jay Nady should have been suspended for a year for his handling of that situation. Boxers get banned and refs should too!
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
come on guys give it a rest, JMM won that fight MAB didn't. its not even that important who won the fight. MAB is still gonna get a chance against PAC and JMM still can avoid PAC. ;D
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
Oh! shit...
I sware I just saw this fight this morning....
I wen't to take my car for an oil change and I took my Sony Walkman and took that fight I watched it as I waited for my car to be serviced....
I saw the fight the same way I saw it that night, JMM putting punches together and landing the harder crispier punches, while MAB did very well with his jab and would try to steal the rounds by fighting the last 30 seconds full on.
The knockdown was shit! IMO and it should have counted, I don't think it would have mad a difference IMO.
For the record Nady wen't on record saying he missed the punch and didn't see it from where he was stading.
I have an issue with Tuckers scorecard of 118-109 that's a crock of shit! IMO.....
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by Julius Rain
come on guys give it a rest, JMM won that fight MAB didn't. its not even that important who won the fight. MAB is still gonna get a chance against PAC and JMM still can avoid PAC. ;D
Yes, Juliun we all know JMM is avoiding Pac...
Thanks for the reminder.... ;D
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by Julius Rain
come on guys give it a rest, JMM won that fight MAB didn't. its not even that important who won the fight. MAB is still gonna get a chance against PAC and JMM still can avoid PAC. ;D
Well this was point of the thread for people to debate who they thought won you have not given one reason why you think JMM won.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Julius Rain
come on guys give it a rest, JMM won that fight MAB didn't. its not even that important who won the fight. MAB is still gonna get a chance against PAC and JMM still can avoid PAC. ;D
Well this was point of the thread for people to debate who they thought won you have not given one reason why you think JMM won.
see CMM for reference ;D
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
Both boxers are extremely overrated. Marquez was easily beaten by Chris John even the US never accepted it.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by Peter Plys 44
Both boxers are extremely overrated. Marquez was easily beaten by Chris John even the US never accepted it.
easily beaten by chris john???
ooh nevermind waste of time replying but since I typed this far I guess I mile as well click POST.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by Peter Plys 44
Both boxers are extremely overrated. Marquez was easily beaten by Chris John even the US never accepted it.
Oh come off it Royal your talking nonsense now for such a stupid comment i have to :sadclick: you.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Peter Plys 44
Both boxers are extremely overrated. Marquez was easily beaten by Chris John even the US never accepted it.
Oh come off it Royal your talking nonsense now for such a stupid comment i have to :sadclick: you.
Every time you do not gain from a comment then you cry Royal! It is okay with me if you do not have anyting else.....
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by Peter Plys 44
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Peter Plys 44
Both boxers are extremely overrated. Marquez was easily beaten by Chris John even the US never accepted it.
Oh come off it Royal your talking nonsense now for such a stupid comment i have to :sadclick: you.
Every time you do not gain from a comment then you cry Royal! It is okay with me if you do not have anyting else.....
Cry Royal ?? thats what your old account was so thats what i call you Royal all you do is constantly slag off USA fighters im getting sick of it to be honest you keep somehow getting back on well your be banned again soon so i will probably see you in a few months Royal.
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
Im done with this thread. Its taken a right ROYAL detour!! ;D
Thanks for your opinions fellas. :coolclick:'s for one and all and for all arguments agreed or even disagreed with.
The consensus is the JMM won the fight, I do still have niggling doubts in my head but we cannot debate this forever...
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
No offence Miles but JMM fans are'nt posting because they all saw who won and it's been recorded who won,JMM.The first time,I had it close because I had the commentary on and was sucked into the bias. The second,third and fourth times,I had JMM by wider margins. Try listening to the fight without the bias bordering on cocksucking commentary(ie JMM landin clean punches and the punch visibly landing and MAB supposedly "rolled" it) by Lampley and Steward for MAB and you'll see who won.
Also,all of front row,and nearly all big sites had JMM by 4/5 points,I posted the scores myself,straight after the fight.Max boxing, fightnews, Eastside,BoxingTalk all had wide margins for JMM.
I don't care what the other sites had it i had Barrera ahead Marquez landed more power punches but thats only because of the one sided round in 7th and one other round which i forgot other than that Barrera was slighty outlanding Marquez it was very close fight i wouldn't of been disappointing whoever won but by the wide margins judges had it ??
:coolclick:, fella
Thats why I started this thread. I couldnt care less what critics or other sites feel about the fight. Im interested here in what my fellow Saddoneans feel about the fight now the hype and excitement has fallen away.
I had Barrera winnig also
My scorecard was pretty similar to Ledermans
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...ERABEATJJJ.jpg
It would have been wider had they not messed up the 7th round . Barrera statistically threw and landed more punches . He controlled the ring better and when you see both men after , Barrera was clearly less marked up
Its not teh 1st time Barrera had been robbed though . The same thing happend in teh 1st Morales fight and Barrera was teh one to go on to get teh superfight with Nas cuz people knew he really won . The same thing has happend here . Barrera is fighting Pac cuz everyone knows he really beat Marquez . JJM is fighting the loser of Barrios - Guzman .
Re: Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?
I had Marquez winng by a few rounds
