All Time Pound For Pound List

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Originally Posted by Azriel

Seriously Flawed list

Lets see:

#30 - Paul Williams 33-0 W ??? WTF has he done aside from beating Margarito? You put him before pep? And what about prior? Anyways, he shouldn't be there

#29 - Miguel Angel Cotto 30-0 W * Not yet P4P material. He just beat Judah and Judah ain't a P4P so what did he do to deserve this?

#28 - Jermain Taylor 27-0-1 M * That's probably the funiest thing I've seen. Taylor on a P4P all time?

#27 - Riddick Bowe 42-1 H Now I know you are not serious. What about Norton?

#26 - Joe Calzaghe 43-0 SM * Now you've lost all my respect. You put him behind De La Hoya and Trinidad? Only two words for you, 20 defenses.

I'll stop here because you're list hasn't been researched enough. Do some research and come back with a better list.

But a hint, RJJ should be before Hopkins... he beat him after all.

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C'Mon now give the guy a break...It is obvious he is either A- A new fan to the sport and his reach into the past is limited....

Or B--This is a Kid who is not familiar with the game of the past......You can tell by his limited amount old time fighters...They are all mainstream.....

Hey I CC the guy for his Efforts.....

But A Hint---- Just because one fighter beat another does not mean he ranks higher then him as an all time great....EG- Robinson would be at least 17 spots lower on the all time list

THANK YOU ALL FOR MAKING MY TOPIC A HOT TOPIC!!! i really appreciate everyone who took part in the discussion , of course , the list is missing some of the greatest fighters to ever lace gloves , but if would of put the title as follows " my 30 favorite boxers " i would've gotten like 2-3 replies max.. Once again , thanks a bunch! and if you have time , list me YOUR favorites!

Maybe it's the thread title that's a bit presumptuous. Naming a thread "All Time Pound for Pound List" sounds a bit authoritative and final.

A better (albeit longer) title would have been:
"My Humble Opinion of the Best Fighters in History Based on My Limited Knowledge of Boxing."

Hope this helps.

;D

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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Azriel

Preme, don't blow a brain cell, I know he's fought nice competition and all, but to put him in front of Chavez, Pacquiao, Foreman to only name these three is ... IN MY OPINION, faulty. 8)

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manny paquiao?

pac is ahead of oscar on the all time list? S*** pac has done well but beating a shot morales twice and barrera once is bollox

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I think Pac won more crucial competitive fights than Oscar did.

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I agree. Aside from having more exciting fights, PAcquaio has proven to be very very strong in his division. BArrera was at his prime when he was knocked out by Manny.JMM was(and still) in his prime when Pacman knocked him out three times. O0

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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan

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Originally Posted by Mikkel_K

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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan

Be prepared for som serious thrashing. You should do some research before putting up a list on this thread. I'll give you a little help. With the exception of Roy Jones jr and Floyd Maywether Jr. Get rid of all the guys with an asterisks(*) next to it. And that includes Paul Williams whom you forgot to mark as an active fighter.

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As much as I agree that the original list was lacking the historical perspective (and that the Paul Williams inclusion looks like a joke), I am just wondering if you actually think that RJJ and PBF are the only active fighters worthy of an all time top 30 p4p?

Now, I dont have the historical knowledge, nor perhaps enough boxing knowledge in general, needed to make such a list (and if I did, I definitely wouldnt have the balls to put it online!). So I am asking in all honesty and curiosity, not because I wanna convince people of any particular opinion, but how about, say, these people:

- Bernard Hopkins
- Felix Trinidad
- James Toney
- Oscar de la Hoya
- Shane Mosley
- Evander Holyfield

Who would fare on a top 30 based on current merits? None? Others?

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To tell you the trueth. I would never do an all time great P4P list. P4P lists in general are a hassle cuz they are just too subjective. Add to that an all time list and it just becomes a big headaik.

To give an example of how tough this is I'll give you an example. Lets look at Trinidad and DLH, if I was doing an all time ww list I would place Trinidad over DLH. If I did an all time P4P I would put DLH over Trinidad. There are just too many things to take into consideration on these types of lists.

With that said, I think all those guys would make top 50 easy. Top 30 might be a bit high for some of them. B-Hop should be up there, don't know about the rest.

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I agree. It's not good to post a list of all-time greats.It's so subjective. O0People get hurt and bad words are all over.Not a healthy topic. Let's SC those who try to start a subject like this again. O0

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Originally Posted by brucelee

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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan

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Originally Posted by Mikkel_K

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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan

Be prepared for som serious thrashing. You should do some research before putting up a list on this thread. I'll give you a little help. With the exception of Roy Jones jr and Floyd Maywether Jr. Get rid of all the guys with an asterisks(*) next to it. And that includes Paul Williams whom you forgot to mark as an active fighter.

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As much as I agree that the original list was lacking the historical perspective (and that the Paul Williams inclusion looks like a joke), I am just wondering if you actually think that RJJ and PBF are the only active fighters worthy of an all time top 30 p4p?

Now, I dont have the historical knowledge, nor perhaps enough boxing knowledge in general, needed to make such a list (and if I did, I definitely wouldnt have the balls to put it online!). So I am asking in all honesty and curiosity, not because I wanna convince people of any particular opinion, but how about, say, these people:

- Bernard Hopkins
- Felix Trinidad
- James Toney
- Oscar de la Hoya
- Shane Mosley
- Evander Holyfield

Who would fare on a top 30 based on current merits? None? Others?

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To tell you the trueth. I would never do an all time great P4P list. P4P lists in general are a hassle cuz they are just too subjective. Add to that an all time list and it just becomes a big headaik.

To give an example of how tough this is I'll give you an example. Lets look at Trinidad and DLH, if I was doing an all time ww list I would place Trinidad over DLH. If I did an all time P4P I would put DLH over Trinidad. There are just too many things to take into consideration on these types of lists.

With that said, I think all those guys would make top 50 easy. Top 30 might be a bit high for some of them. B-Hop should be up there, don't know about the rest.

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I agree. It's not good to post a list of all-time greats.It's so subjective. O0People get hurt and bad words are all over.Not a healthy topic. Let's SC those who try to start a subject like this again. O0

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:beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse:

im confused

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Originally Posted by Headson

im confused

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im dazed

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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by Headson

im confused

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im dazed

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im superman

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Originally Posted by brucelee

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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by Headson

im confused

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im dazed

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im superman

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im jenna jamison

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Originally Posted by Headson

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Originally Posted by brucelee

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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by Headson

im confused

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im dazed

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im superman

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im jenna jamison

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im ron jeremy

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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by Headson

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Originally Posted by brucelee

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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by Headson

im confused

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im dazed

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im superman

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im jenna jamison

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im ron jeremy

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i cant think of a comback

I'm :gay-as-steelie:

I'm also kidding of course. Someone SC me please.

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Originally Posted by LEGION

I'm also kidding of course. Someone SC me please.

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lol! +44

I thought the list was perfect except Paul Williams is way too low. Anyone with a win over the great Tony Margarito deserves a top 15 spot without a doubt.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

I thought the list was perfect except Paul Williams is way too low. Anyone with a win over the great Tony Margarito deserves a top 15 spot without a doubt.

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In spite of the loss, I actually still have Margarito ahead of Williams on my all time p4p list.

I got him closing in around the #20 spot (nevermind the losses, those were some bad ass journeymen that everybody has been avoiding and Tony had the courage and heart to take them on)


Antonio Margarito is just THAT DAMN GOOD!!!!

well i guess i going to make a list probably most correct i can think of right now is

Sugar Ray Robinson
Henry Armstrong
Willi Pep
Mohammad Ali
Robert Duran
Harry Greb
Gene Tunney
Rocky Marciano
Archie Moore
Sugar Ray Leonard

Thats mine i has flaws but that what i am thinking at the moment just a opinion though and i am sure people have some problems with my list to and i will love to get feed back on it

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Originally Posted by Mikefields

* = still active


#30 - Paul Williams 33-0 W

#29 - Miguel Angel Cotto 30-0 W *

#28 - Jermain Taylor 27-0-1 M *

#27 - Riddick Bowe 42-1 H

#26 - Joe Calzaghe 43-0 SM *

#25 - Michael Spinks 31-1 LH

#24 - Joe Frazier 32-4-1 H

#23 - Sonny Liston 50-4 H

#22 - Shane Mosley 44-4 W *

#21 - George Foreman 75-5 H

#20 - Ronald Wright 51-4-1 M *

#19 - Manny Pacquiao 44-3-2 SF *

#18 - Mike Tyson 50-6 H

#17 - Lennox Lewis 41-2-1 H

#16 - Marco Antonio Barrera 63-5 SF *

#15 - Felix Trinidad 42-2 W

#14 - Larry Holmes 69-6 H

#13 - Thomas Hearns 61-5-1 W

#12 - Julio Cesar Chavez 108-6-2 LW

#11 - Oscar De La Hoya 38-5 LM *

#10 - Roy Jones Jr. 51-4 LH *

#9 - Bernard Hopkins 48-4-1 LH *

#8 - Floyd Mayweather Jr. 38-0 LM *

#7 - Marvin Hagler 62-3-2 M

#6 - Rocky Marciano 49-0 H

#5 - Roberto Duran 103-16 L

#4 - Ray leonard 36-3-1 W

#3 - Joe Louis 69-3 H

#2 - Ray Robinson 173-19-6 M

#1 - Muhammad Ali 56-5 H

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i DON'T LIKE THE LIST. COTTO/WILLIAMS SHOULDN'T BE THERE. MAYWEATHER IS WAY TOO HIGH AND YOU'RE MISSING MORE FIGHTERS.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

well i guess i going to make a list probably most correct i can think of right now is

Sugar Ray Robinson
Henry Armstrong
Willi Pep
Mohammad Ali
Robert Duran
Harry Greb
Gene Tunney
Rocky Marciano
Archie Moore
Sugar Ray Leonard

Thats mine i has flaws but that what i am thinking at the moment just a opinion though and i am sure people have some problems with my list to and i will love to get feed back on it

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You're top 5 is pretty much the same as mine

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by Mr140

well i guess i going to make a list probably most correct i can think of right now is

Sugar Ray Robinson
Henry Armstrong
Willi Pep
Mohammad Ali
Robert Duran
Harry Greb
Gene Tunney
Rocky Marciano
Archie Moore
Sugar Ray Leonard

Thats mine i has flaws but that what i am thinking at the moment just a opinion though and i am sure people have some problems with my list to and i will love to get feed back on it

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You're top 5 is pretty much the same as mine

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Leonard and Tunney above Armstrong,,Robinson and PeP???......I like Ray but not that much.....

Everyone has their own I guess.....


Problem is and this is the truth......we are so used to the standard list that is put out by the so called experts .........That when we see a list that differs it almost seems wrong.....A P4P list will never be accurate.....lNo One knows really how each of these men would have farded at another point and time...if they would have been as succesfull......It is just an outline.......As long as you do not put up guys like Rahman as the best HW of all time or something like that each list is fair

At the end of the day most of has haven't really seen enough of the older fighters to make a judgement. e.g Benny Leonard - I have never seen any footage of the guy (don't even think there is any) but through reading and discussing I would probably put him in a top 20 list - so maybe we should only do lists on what we have seen. In that case my top 5 would still be SRR, Armstrong, Pepp Ali and Duran

I cannot beleive Willie Pep is not on that list..........................to be honest im lost for words.....
I put my No1 as Willie Pep based on what people who have Beat Ray robinson have said....
Rocky Graziano being an example...Sugar Ray comes in second for me...followed by Ali

1Sugar Ray Robinson
2Henry Armstrong
3Willi Pep
4Mohammad Ali
5Robert Duran
6Harry Greb
7Gene Tunney
8Rocky Marciano
9Archie Moore
10Sugar Ray Leonard

Daxx that is the order they are ing if you are confused i go first to last dude sorry ofr confusing you

Marciano has no place any were near the top ten. In my estimations Ali should be a little lower and Duran is the only fighter of the modern era who belongs in the top five. Most informed lists such as the one compiled by ring magazine tend to include the trinity of Armstrong, Robinson and Ali in the top three in various states of order. The overall consensus ls usually in favour of Robinson with Armstrong a close second. I personally have Duran as high as third on the list as I believe he was unbeatable as a lightweight over the 15 round distance. From 67 to 80 Duran was the most complete fighter that I ever saw in the flesh and his record bears testimony to his greatness. His post 1980 incarnation served only to bolster his claim for a place in the pantheon of greats as he gallantly defied logic and time by competing way above his prime weight and in the twilight of his career against some of the modern greats.

I think Willi has a step over duran and as far as leonard goes i just think he belongs in the top ten but that just me o well

Despite his great record Pep was beaten in his prime and his KO record is not very impressive. From the footage that Ive witnessed of Pep I believe that Duran would have possessed to much for him. Boxing as a craft had evolved considerably from the time of Pep to the era of Duran, Pep's style of pugilism appears antediluvian on inspection. Mr 140, What footage of Pep have you seen ?

The criteria for pound for pound lists tend to take into consideration a plethora of variables. Career records obviously are overwhelming when building a case for individual fighters, but Im often intrigued by other factors. Rocky Marciano and Dempsey had better careers than Tyson and deserve to be placed higher than Mike on a pound for pound list. But I don't believe for one moment that any of the two fighters would stand a chance against a prime Tyson. I like to balance career achievements with ruminations on who would actually emerge victorious between two pound for pound candidates. And while Pep belongs up there on career achievements attained during his era, It is my firm belief that Duran would dispatch him without to much trouble. Its what you take into consideration at the end of the day and to often the criteria is nebulus and poorly defined.

Well then what do you think when i say Leonard should be in top ten Because i know he lost to Duran and did avenge it well he bet Hearns, Benitez, and Hagler was champion in Welterweight,Lightmiddle,Middle,Supermiddle and Lightheavy but yet his record not as good as most top guys so does that effect his legacy thats my question love to hear what your thoughts are on that

Personally I would have leonard in the top ten, around number eight. I think the combination of fighters he faced, fighters he beat, his mastery of the noble art, the dominations of his prime division, his multiple weight successes and my projected calculus of his fairing against other pound for pound candidates bolster his standing.

Ok thats a pretty good answer see you watch your boxing good post my friend

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Originally Posted by Mr140

1Sugar Ray Robinson
2Henry Armstrong
3Willi Pep
4Mohammad Ali
5Robert Duran
6Harry Greb
7Gene Tunney
8Rocky Marciano
9Archie Moore
10Sugar Ray Leonard

Daxx that is the order they are ing if you are confused i go first to last dude sorry ofr confusing you

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AHHH I see now.....The list makes more sense that way ;)

glad you saw what i ment the other way i am aware didn't make much sense at all i know

Really poor list but atleast you tried

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Azriel

In my opinion, De La Hoya is viewed as an all time great because of his fame and not his accomplishments. But that's only my opinion. I just think Trinidad and De La Hoya are too high on the list.

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De la hoya got his fame because of his accomplishments... seriously, can;t beliebe i have to explain this...

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Agreed, but De La Hoya was a star before he ever had his first pro fight. His 92 olympic ventures made him a star.

i suppose none of you boys ever heard of John Ruiz ?

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Azriel

Preme, don't blow a brain cell, I know he's fought nice competition and all, but to put him in front of Chavez, Pacquiao, Foreman to only name these three is ... IN MY OPINION, faulty. 8)

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manny paquiao?

pac is ahead of oscar on the all time list? S*** pac has done well but beating a shot morales twice and barrera once is bollox

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I think Pac won more crucial competitive fights than Oscar did.

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Let's no get carried away now

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Well, he was the chick magnet back in his prime. Oscar won against down the hill JCC, a runner against Trinindad, lost crucial fights with B-hop (massive liver shot), Mosley twice, PBF. Won against punk asses Vargas and Mayorga.

That's pretty much the highlights of his career. :-\

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I guess them wins over Whitaker, Ruelas, Leija, Carr, Hernandez don't mean much

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nop 'coz he lost a couple of times to some of the best p4p fighters at the time and ov all time... and even they were razor thin losses (hopkins excluded) it tarnishes his record...

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Since when do close losses and a lost to a much bigger man tarnish some ones record? Either way, Oscar should be ranked ahead of Pac no matter what. And if you disagree than you know a lot less about boxing than I taught you did

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Its not even worth the rebuttal, thats just a case of someone holding on to Pac's bean bag for dear life... And an case you didnt know Pac has an 18in cak, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, more powerful than a locomotive and is bullet proof with xray eyes ::** or some would suggest that

How does john ruiz belong there he is the worst fighter i have ever seen and boring

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Originally Posted by Mikefields

* = still active


#30 - Paul Williams 33-0 W

#29 - Miguel Angel Cotto 30-0 W *

#28 - Jermain Taylor 27-0-1 M *

#27 - Riddick Bowe 42-1 H

#26 - Joe Calzaghe 43-0 SM *

#25 - Michael Spinks 31-1 LH

#24 - Joe Frazier 32-4-1 H

#23 - Sonny Liston 50-4 H

#22 - Shane Mosley 44-4 W *

#21 - George Foreman 75-5 H

#20 - Ronald Wright 51-4-1 M *

#19 - Manny Pacquiao 44-3-2 SF *

#18 - Mike Tyson 50-6 H

#17 - Lennox Lewis 41-2-1 H

#16 - Marco Antonio Barrera 63-5 SF *

#15 - Felix Trinidad 42-2 W

#14 - Larry Holmes 69-6 H

#13 - Thomas Hearns 61-5-1 W

#12 - Julio Cesar Chavez 108-6-2 LW

#11 - Oscar De La Hoya 38-5 LM *

#10 - Roy Jones Jr. 51-4 LH *

#9 - Bernard Hopkins 48-4-1 LH *

#8 - Floyd Mayweather Jr. 38-0 LM *

#7 - Marvin Hagler 62-3-2 M

#6 - Rocky Marciano 49-0 H

#5 - Roberto Duran 103-16 L

#4 - Ray leonard 36-3-1 W

#3 - Joe Louis 69-3 H

#2 - Ray Robinson 173-19-6 M

#1 - Muhammad Ali 56-5 H

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Where the hell is Greb? He should be in the 1-5 spot.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

How does john ruiz belong there he is the worst fighter i have ever seen and boring

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he is quality with a capital Q

so that means you are joking right dude maybe i just cant take a hint dude