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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
Pavlik took some great shot in round 2 and kept on coming. I don't think Talor missed his chance because Pavlik did not give him a chance due to his cast iron chin.
Totally agree Taylor landed plenty but Pavlik held on and also his iron chin survived the onslaught i don't think Taylor missed any chance to be honest it was just Pavlik was smart.
Agreed with both of you..I wouldn't call it 'cast iron' chin though. Taylor has surely cast doubt on Pavliks indestructible chin (not to say its bad but he's certainly not invincible) however it was Pavlik being smart and holding using generally good survival skills. All this bullshit i'm hearing about JT not being able to finish the job is unfair IMO..Taylor is still catching too much flack for this fight..a fight he was clearly winning until the stoppage. You all wanted Taylor to come out and prove that he can fight and he's still getting gunned?..I think he did that and more. I'm not a massive Taylor fan but man, some people can be unforgiving lol. Can't wait for the rematch.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Althugz
Man were we not watching the same fight?? Taylor showed me something tonight! Pavlik has 36 minutes to land his right hand and does it in round 7 and everyone is riding his nuts?! He was getting a boxing lesson up until that point in my opinion. The result was fair in the end what can you do..that right hand was lethal! However, I think if there is a rematch Taylor takes it. That lazy left hand became his demise. I can't believe people are writing Taylor off after this defeat. He has nothing to be ashamed of.
A boxing lesson ?? what the hell ?? Pavlik won 3 rounds no question Taylor was either one point ahead or Pavlik was one point ahead but to say he was giving Pavlik a boxing lesson is nonsense here is the punchstats.
Pavlik threw 460 punches landed 180 39 pct.
Taylor threw 369 punches landed 182 49 pct.
Total Jabs.
Pavlik threw 250 landed 80 32 pct.
Taylor threw 207 landed 77 37 pct.
Total Power Punches.
Taylor threw 162 landed 105 and of course most of the power punches landed were in round 2 where he landed 44 i think anyway 65 pct.
Pavlik threw 210 landed 100 48 pct
Hardly a boxing lesson.
The jabs they were landing together..you can see Taylors accuracy and ability to make Pavlik miss. Pavliks work-rate kept him in it. Maybe boxing lesson was harsh but Taylor was clearly ahead..remember numbers don't tell the whole story. Even my boys who were rooting for Pavlik agreed that Taylor was getting much the better of it. I had Pavlik winning 2 rounds by the way. Taylors work was just more impressive to me from a 'boxing' stand-point and probably impressed the judges too. (Who also are getting a hard time for scores that aren't all that bad)
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by Althugz
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
Man were we not watching the same fight?? Taylor showed me something tonight! Pavlik has 36 minutes to land his right hand and does it in round 7 and everyone is riding his nuts?! He was getting a boxing lesson up until that point in my opinion. The result was fair in the end what can you do..that right hand was lethal! However, I think if there is a rematch Taylor takes it. That lazy left hand became his demise. I can't believe people are writing Taylor off after this defeat. He has nothing to be ashamed of.
A boxing lesson ?? what the hell ?? Pavlik won 3 rounds no question Taylor was either one point ahead or Pavlik was one point ahead but to say he was giving Pavlik a boxing lesson is nonsense here is the punchstats.
Pavlik threw 460 punches landed 180 39 pct.
Taylor threw 369 punches landed 182 49 pct.
Total Jabs.
Pavlik threw 250 landed 80 32 pct.
Taylor threw 207 landed 77 37 pct.
Total Power Punches.
Taylor threw 162 landed 105 and of course most of the power punches landed were in round 2 where he landed 44 i think anyway 65 pct.
Pavlik threw 210 landed 100 48 pct
Hardly a boxing lesson.
The jabs they were landing together..you can see Taylors accuracy and ability to make Pavlik miss. Pavliks work-rate kept him in it. Maybe boxing lesson was harsh but Taylor was clearly ahead..remember numbers don't tell the whole story. Even my boys who were rooting for Pavlik agreed that Taylor was getting much the better of it. I had Pavlik winning 2 rounds by the way. Taylors work was just more impressive to me from a 'boxing' stand-point and probably impressed the judges too. (Who also are getting a hard time for scores that aren't all that bad)
No offence but your argument goes out of the window when Jermain said after the fight that he was sure he was losing and the look of surprise on his face when Merchant said that the judges had him ahead. As for Pavlik missing.....he hardly missed the right hand from the beginning..
Their scores are bad when the fighter himself thought he was behind,when Kelly is throwing more,landing more,landing harder. There was no boxing lesson,how can there be when Kelly was backing Jermain up,landing the longer,harder jab and round 2 aside,landing the harder punches.
I really think you should re watch the fight. No offence but ANYONE could see Kelly was hammering him with the right hand.All night! And Kelly was avoiding alot of Jermain's punches. As for rematch,Kelly won't be weight drained=more pressure. I think we saw the best of Taylor tonight.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla
When Pavlik was spinning in circles like a ballerina the fight should have been halted and Taylor should have had himself a second round TKO.
No it shouldn't that would of been horrible stoppage Pavlik head was clear and he was clinching Taylor did not put enough hurt on Pavlik to warrant a stoppage.
it is VERY possible that I exaggerated the moment in my own mind due to the emotional state I was in, but I remember Pavlik with his back turned to Taylor in Round 2
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Taylor has no GAS tank so he looses the rematch anyway !
I have to agree.
I also think that Taylor and Manny should part ways for both their sakes.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher
1 - i guarentee ive been F****** chgaepshotted in the nuts morer then anyone else here
Geez, Sal...... no WONDER you're so pissed off all the time.
;D ;D
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
Kelly's corner was superior to Taylor's & money & a famous trainer can't equate to hometown comfort or drive. Wacko
Glad to have you back in action, Wacko.
Also, I could not agree with that comment any more than I do. I keep thinking back to the Countdown show when Pavlik's trainer uttered "bullshit" when responding to folks who say Pavlik needs a big name trainer.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
man, this fight was pretty much even until the K.O.
No one dominated anyone. However i do believe pavliks jab had more pepper on it than taylors.
Oh, and to whoever it was saying getting hit hard low with a gaurd doesnt hurt, Never got hit hard low with a gaurd. It hurts, and hurts more and more while trying to move around.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
I've watched the fight 4 times and if you look at the replay of when Taylor hurt Pav in the 2nd round, look at how it happened. You guys know how Pav was sticking his tongue out at Jermaine in the 1st round and at the weigh-in, like he was showing off??? If you watch right before Taylor started hurting Pav, Kelly started to make a face and looked as if he was going to stick his tongue out at him again, and when he did he got caught bad. I'm not in any way saying Taylor doesn't hit hard, but I think Kelly was too confident going in and making faces I think got him caught off guard. He has alot of heart, no doubt, but he almost lost the fight for that face-making. Watch it and tell me if you see the same thing.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
j.t was explosive and the bad intention we have all been wanting to always see from him was there but pavlik beat the best j.t there was. plain and simple lets have the rematch but not at 168lb keep it in the same weight.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce
man, this fight was pretty much even until the K.O.
No one dominated anyone. However i do believe pavliks jab had more pepper on it than taylors.
Oh, and to whoever it was saying getting hit hard low with a gaurd doesnt hurt, Never got hit hard low with a gaurd. It hurts, and hurts more and more while trying to move around.
I said it big duece and I will say it again with a little more explination.
A WELL FITTED GAURD WILL PROTECT YOU. IF YOU ARE NOT WEARING A FITTED GUARD, BUY ONE. DON'T USE JUST ANYONE's.
YOU DO NOT USE JUST ANY MOUTH PIECE DO YOU? NO!
YOU HAVE THEM CUSTOM MADE AND FITTED. Or didn't you know that either?
Wake up people and stop telling lies about it being all that painful when getting hit with a fitted protector. These guys are pros and if they are not using a professional fitted guard, shame on them for being so stupid and shame on their team for over looking the details.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by BoxerBoy
He looked like he punched himself out at the end of round 2! After that, it looked as though he was content to box to a decision! Which I think he was well on his way to doing! But the boxing gods smiled on us, and gave us Pavliks sweet right hand!
Exactly! Taylor blew his wad in the second and got put to sleep in the 7th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sometimes you can't KO someone....what do you do then....Taylor has no clue.....he went wild which is surprising seeing as how composed he seem to have been in his last 5 fights...then again he hasn't came close to a KO really in like 4 yrs.....so he got excited...and blew it....unfortunately for Taylor is that that is how he will have to fight Pavlik again because the man doesn't let you stay controlled...Taylor is going to have to FIGHT!! and you see what Pavlik is made up and he's not going anywhere....sometime guys a re taylor made for you (pardon the pun) :)
GREAT JOB KELLY P!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fellow Ohio brother!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by Althugz
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Althugz
Man were we not watching the same fight?? Taylor showed me something tonight! Pavlik has 36 minutes to land his right hand and does it in round 7 and everyone is riding his nuts?! He was getting a boxing lesson up until that point in my opinion. The result was fair in the end what can you do..that right hand was lethal! However, I think if there is a rematch Taylor takes it. That lazy left hand became his demise. I can't believe people are writing Taylor off after this defeat. He has nothing to be ashamed of.
A boxing lesson ?? what the hell ?? Pavlik won 3 rounds no question Taylor was either one point ahead or Pavlik was one point ahead but to say he was giving Pavlik a boxing lesson is nonsense here is the punchstats.
Pavlik threw 460 punches landed 180 39 pct.
Taylor threw 369 punches landed 182 49 pct.
Total Jabs.
Pavlik threw 250 landed 80 32 pct.
Taylor threw 207 landed 77 37 pct.
Total Power Punches.
Taylor threw 162 landed 105 and of course most of the power punches landed were in round 2 where he landed 44 i think anyway 65 pct.
Pavlik threw 210 landed 100 48 pct
Hardly a boxing lesson.
The jabs they were landing together..you can see Taylors accuracy and ability to make Pavlik miss. Pavliks work-rate kept him in it. Maybe boxing lesson was harsh but Taylor was clearly ahead..remember numbers don't tell the whole story. Even my boys who were rooting for Pavlik agreed that Taylor was getting much the better of it. I had Pavlik winning 2 rounds by the way. Taylors work was just more impressive to me from a 'boxing' stand-point and probably impressed the judges too. (Who also are getting a hard time for scores that aren't all that bad)
No offence but your argument goes out of the window when Jermain said after the fight that he was sure he was losing and the look of surprise on his face when Merchant said that the judges had him ahead. As for Pavlik missing.....he hardly missed the right hand from the beginning..
Their scores are bad when the fighter himself thought he was behind,when Kelly is throwing more,landing more,landing harder. There was no boxing lesson,how can there be when Kelly was backing Jermain up,landing the longer,harder jab and round 2 aside,landing the harder punches.
No offence taken, no offence to you either gamo but if you're judging fights based on how the fighters 'feel' they did then you're plain and simple wrong. Props to Taylor for admitting that he thought he was behind but he was in there feeling those hard shots from Pavlik..as a boxer you're not keeping score and you can't see yourself while you're boxing. Thats what the judges are for. If you're judging fights based on how the fighters feel they did then Margarito got robbed against Williams ::** we all know what happened there..
Like you said ANYONE can see that Pavlik was getting through with his right hand..sure I did see that. It's not enough to win rounds on the 4 point must system though. Taylor had the speed, accuracy, clean punching and often elusiveness off of the ropes that will rack up the points. It was good looking boxing that obviously impressed the judges. Pavlik broke him down steadily but that by no means means he was winning the fight. I've given Pavlik props like I said he got the victory fair and square but he wasn't winning IMO.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
in a rematch both fighters have an equal chance of winning I think. Unless the KO took a lot from Taylor, then a second fight would be just as competitive.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher
taylor EXCEEDED his abilities tonight...
and he STILL got KTFO
Yes he did. He looked faster than I have ever scene him the fight was in the center of the ring the most of the fight and his jab was working. He looked very very sharp. I just think Pavlik is that much better. Taylor would have never beat a 10 count. They were slapping his face and asking him questions.
They had to help him into a stool. I wish he would have counted. I would have loved to see Taylor get up and stumble. Fact is he would not have beaten the count.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by Althugz
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Althugz
Man were we not watching the same fight?? Taylor showed me something tonight! Pavlik has 36 minutes to land his right hand and does it in round 7 and everyone is riding his nuts?! He was getting a boxing lesson up until that point in my opinion. The result was fair in the end what can you do..that right hand was lethal! However, I think if there is a rematch Taylor takes it. That lazy left hand became his demise. I can't believe people are writing Taylor off after this defeat. He has nothing to be ashamed of.
A boxing lesson ?? what the hell ?? Pavlik won 3 rounds no question Taylor was either one point ahead or Pavlik was one point ahead but to say he was giving Pavlik a boxing lesson is nonsense here is the punchstats.
Pavlik threw 460 punches landed 180 39 pct.
Taylor threw 369 punches landed 182 49 pct.
Total Jabs.
Pavlik threw 250 landed 80 32 pct.
Taylor threw 207 landed 77 37 pct.
Total Power Punches.
Taylor threw 162 landed 105 and of course most of the power punches landed were in round 2 where he landed 44 i think anyway 65 pct.
Pavlik threw 210 landed 100 48 pct
Hardly a boxing lesson.
The jabs they were landing together..you can see Taylors accuracy and ability to make Pavlik miss. Pavliks work-rate kept him in it. Maybe boxing lesson was harsh but Taylor was clearly ahead..remember numbers don't tell the whole story. Even my boys who were rooting for Pavlik agreed that Taylor was getting much the better of it. I had Pavlik winning 2 rounds by the way. Taylors work was just more impressive to me from a 'boxing' stand-point and probably impressed the judges too. (Who also are getting a hard time for scores that aren't all that bad)
No offence but your argument goes out of the window when Jermain said after the fight that he was sure he was losing and the look of surprise on his face when Merchant said that the judges had him ahead. As for Pavlik missing.....he hardly missed the right hand from the beginning..
Their scores are bad when the fighter himself thought he was behind,when Kelly is throwing more,landing more,landing harder. There was no boxing lesson,how can there be when Kelly was backing Jermain up,landing the longer,harder jab and round 2 aside,landing the harder punches.
No offence taken, no offence to you either gamo but if you're judging fights based on how the fighters 'feel' they did then you're plain and simple wrong. Props to Taylor for admitting that he thought he was behind but he was in there feeling those hard shots from Pavlik..as a boxer you're not keeping score and you can't see yourself while you're boxing. Thats what the judges are for. If you're judging fights based on how the fighters feel they did then Margarito got robbed against Williams ::** we all know what happened there..
Like you said ANYONE can see that Pavlik was getting through with his right hand..sure I did see that. It's not enough to win rounds on the 4 point must system though. Taylor had the speed, accuracy, clean punching and often elusiveness off of the ropes that will rack up the points. It was good looking boxing that obviously impressed the judges. Pavlik broke him down steadily but that by no means means he was winning the fight. I've given Pavlik props like I said he got the victory fair and square but he wasn't winning IMO.
Well your points go out fo the window when you use the Margarito fight as an analogy....he thought he won. Everyone thinks they are winning. But when someone admits to thinking that they are behind and the look of surprise on his face when told he was winning,thats completely different. Only a fool would have had JT ahead by 3 rounds. Look at the punch stats. Look at who was landing the harder punches. Thank goodness Kelly won and took it away from those corrupt judges.
Elusivness?He was getting backed up.
Speed-Pavlik had the power.
Fighting off the ropes because he was being backed up there and had to fight back or get knocked out...which eventually happened.
And like I said,you originally said Pavlik was missing,well,judging by the punchstats,the fight I saw and the fight most saw,I don't think he was.Like I said,thank goodness Kelly won via KO,because getting a decision v Jermain is neigh on impossible. This was a 1 point fight either way max.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
Well your points go out fo the window when you use the Margarito fight as an analogy....he thought he won. Everyone thinks they are winning. But when someone admits to thinking that they are behind and the look of surprise on his face when told he was winning,thats completely different. Only a fool would have had JT ahead by 3 rounds. Look at the punch stats. Look at who was landing the harder punches. Thank goodness Kelly won and took it away from those corrupt judges.
Elusivness?He was getting backed up.
Speed-Pavlik had the power.
Fighting off the ropes because he was being backed up there and had to fight back or get knocked out...which eventually happened.
And like I said,you originally said Pavlik was missing,well,judging by the punchstats,the fight I saw and the fight most saw,I don't think he was.Like I said,thank goodness Kelly won via KO,because getting a decision v Jermain is neigh on impossible. This was a 1 point fight either way max.
Thats a bullshit statement. Calling me a fool AND a hell of a lot of other people who thought Taylor was up by at least 3 points in the fight. I don't care if Jermaine Taylor THOUGHT he was losing. Like I said he is not watching himself..when you're feeling those punches from Pavlik that must be disheartening! Maybe it's an idea of where JT's confidence is at the moment if he thought he was losing. It has no bearing on how the fight was actually going. You want to refer to the punchstats and say Pavlik wasn't missing? That makes no sense what so ever because the punchstats say Pavlik threw many more punches than Taylor but didn't land as many so he was therefore MISSING a lot of his punches. Dunno how you can use that as an arguement to say Pavlik wasn't missing lol ???
End of the day this is all opinions and what people percieve to be good looking, POINT SCORING boxing. Taylor was scoring points, simple as. Calling someone a fool for thinking Taylor was winning is foolish in it's own right. The commentator even said Pavlik was running out of idea's and just running the one-two every time. Eventually one of the two's got Taylor and that was all she wrote. All of my friends who were rooting for Pavlik had Taylor well ahead on points too. Also if you're going by the HBO scorecard then god bless you..how many times has Harold Lederman been completely wrong and also disagreed with Larry and Jim. Again its all down to opinion. This was one of those fights.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by Althugz
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
Well your points go out fo the window when you use the Margarito fight as an analogy....he thought he won. Everyone thinks they are winning. But when someone admits to thinking that they are behind and the look of surprise on his face when told he was winning,thats completely different. Only a fool would have had JT ahead by 3 rounds. Look at the punch stats. Look at who was landing the harder punches. Thank goodness Kelly won and took it away from those corrupt judges.
Elusivness?He was getting backed up.
Speed-Pavlik had the power.
Fighting off the ropes because he was being backed up there and had to fight back or get knocked out...which eventually happened.
And like I said,you originally said Pavlik was missing,well,judging by the punchstats,the fight I saw and the fight most saw,I don't think he was.Like I said,thank goodness Kelly won via KO,because getting a decision v Jermain is neigh on impossible. This was a 1 point fight either way max.
Thats a bullshit statement. Calling me a fool AND a hell of a lot of other people who thought Taylor was up by at least 3 points in the fight. I don't care if Jermaine Taylor THOUGHT he was losing. Like I said he is not watching himself..when you're feeling those punches from Pavlik that must be disheartening! Maybe it's an idea of where JT's confidence is at the moment if he thought he was losing. It has no bearing on how the fight was actually going. You want to refer to the punchstats and say Pavlik wasn't missing? That makes no sense what so ever because the punchstats say Pavlik threw many more punches than Taylor but didn't land as many so he was therefore MISSING a lot of his punches. Dunno how you can use that as an arguement to say Pavlik wasn't missing lol ???
End of the day this is all opinions and what people percieve to be good looking, POINT SCORING boxing. Taylor was scoring points, simple as. Calling someone a fool for thinking Taylor was winning is foolish in it's own right. The commentator even said Pavlik was running out of idea's and just running the one-two every time. Eventually one of the two's got Taylor and that was all she wrote. All of my friends who were rooting for Pavlik had Taylor well ahead on points too. Also if you're going by the HBO scorecard then god bless you..how many times has Harold Lederman been completely wrong and also disagreed with Larry and Jim. Again its all down to opinion. This was one of those fights.
But how can you have Taylor up by 3 points though ?? its impossible because Pavlik won 3 rounds clearly.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by LEGION
I've watched the fight 4 times and if you look at the replay of when Taylor hurt Pav in the 2nd round, look at how it happened. You guys know how Pav was sticking his tongue out at Jermaine in the 1st round and at the weigh-in, like he was showing off??? If you watch right before Taylor started hurting Pav, Kelly started to make a face and looked as if he was going to stick his tongue out at him again, and when he did he got caught bad. I'm not in any way saying Taylor doesn't hit hard, but I think Kelly was too confident going in and making faces I think got him caught off guard. He has alot of heart, no doubt, but he almost lost the fight for that face-making. Watch it and tell me if you see the same thing.
i saw the same thing. but after that round he took the fight more seriously. but pavlik has a stronger chin than taylor. and taylor has no passion at all. after he gassed himself out, he made himself open coz he kept dropping his guard.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by Althugz
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
Well your points go out fo the window when you use the Margarito fight as an analogy....he thought he won. Everyone thinks they are winning. But when someone admits to thinking that they are behind and the look of surprise on his face when told he was winning,thats completely different. Only a fool would have had JT ahead by 3 rounds. Look at the punch stats. Look at who was landing the harder punches. Thank goodness Kelly won and took it away from those corrupt judges.
Elusivness?He was getting backed up.
Speed-Pavlik had the power.
Fighting off the ropes because he was being backed up there and had to fight back or get knocked out...which eventually happened.
And like I said,you originally said Pavlik was missing,well,judging by the punchstats,the fight I saw and the fight most saw,I don't think he was.Like I said,thank goodness Kelly won via KO,because getting a decision v Jermain is neigh on impossible. This was a 1 point fight either way max.
Thats a bullshit statement. Calling me a fool AND a hell of a lot of other people who thought Taylor was up by at least 3 points in the fight. I don't care if Jermaine Taylor THOUGHT he was losing. Like I said he is not watching himself..when you're feeling those punches from Pavlik that must be disheartening! Maybe it's an idea of where JT's confidence is at the moment if he thought he was losing. It has no bearing on how the fight was actually going. You want to refer to the punchstats and say Pavlik wasn't missing? That makes no sense what so ever because the punchstats say Pavlik threw many more punches than Taylor but didn't land as many so he was therefore MISSING a lot of his punches. Dunno how you can use that as an arguement to say Pavlik wasn't missing lol ???
End of the day this is all opinions and what people percieve to be good looking, POINT SCORING boxing. Taylor was scoring points, simple as. Calling someone a fool for thinking Taylor was winning is foolish in it's own right. The commentator even said Pavlik was running out of idea's and just running the one-two every time. Eventually one of the two's got Taylor and that was all she wrote. All of my friends who were rooting for Pavlik had Taylor well ahead on points too. Also if you're going by the HBO scorecard then god bless you..how many times has Harold Lederman been completely wrong and also disagreed with Larry and Jim. Again its all down to opinion. This was one of those fights.
Well you can say that was a BS comment as much as you like but judging from the long ass thread about the terrible scoring here and at nearly every other forum on the net and the number of knowledgeable powsters who have commented on the scoring being iffy,I'd think its safe to say it was more of a common sense comment as opposed to a "bullshit" comment. ;) ;D
And at no point in the fight did Pavlik look like he was quote running out of ideas unquote. What a ridiculous statement,especially considering he the manner in which the fight was won.I think it's safe to say,judging from the number of right hands he landed and how he won,he was pretty sure of what he was doing.... ;)
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
I will support the arguments that suggest that anybody who thought Taylor was winning comprehensively at the time of the stoppage is a complete fool.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
Well your points go out fo the window when you use the Margarito fight as an analogy....he thought he won. Everyone thinks they are winning. But when someone admits to thinking that they are behind and the look of surprise on his face when told he was winning,thats completely different. Only a fool would have had JT ahead by 3 rounds. Look at the punch stats. Look at who was landing the harder punches. Thank goodness Kelly won and took it away from those corrupt judges.
Elusivness?He was getting backed up.
Speed-Pavlik had the power.
Fighting off the ropes because he was being backed up there and had to fight back or get knocked out...which eventually happened.
And like I said,you originally said Pavlik was missing,well,judging by the punchstats,the fight I saw and the fight most saw,I don't think he was.Like I said,thank goodness Kelly won via KO,because getting a decision v Jermain is neigh on impossible. This was a 1 point fight either way max.
Thats a bullshit statement. Calling me a fool AND a hell of a lot of other people who thought Taylor was up by at least 3 points in the fight. I don't care if Jermaine Taylor THOUGHT he was losing. Like I said he is not watching himself..when you're feeling those punches from Pavlik that must be disheartening! Maybe it's an idea of where JT's confidence is at the moment if he thought he was losing. It has no bearing on how the fight was actually going. You want to refer to the punchstats and say Pavlik wasn't missing? That makes no sense what so ever because the punchstats say Pavlik threw many more punches than Taylor but didn't land as many so he was therefore MISSING a lot of his punches. Dunno how you can use that as an arguement to say Pavlik wasn't missing lol ???
End of the day this is all opinions and what people percieve to be good looking, POINT SCORING boxing. Taylor was scoring points, simple as. Calling someone a fool for thinking Taylor was winning is foolish in it's own right. The commentator even said Pavlik was running out of idea's and just running the one-two every time. Eventually one of the two's got Taylor and that was all she wrote. All of my friends who were rooting for Pavlik had Taylor well ahead on points too. Also if you're going by the HBO scorecard then god bless you..how many times has Harold Lederman been completely wrong and also disagreed with Larry and Jim. Again its all down to opinion. This was one of those fights.
But how can you have Taylor up by 3 points though ?? its impossible because Pavlik won 3 rounds clearly.
I had Pavlik winning 2 rounds, Taylor 4 with a 10-8 round. Thats 3 points. Not 'Impossible' as there were a few people who had this scorecard. The fight wasn't one-sided by any means. It was a 50-50 fight with both fighters landing but I just gave Taylor the edge in cleaner punching, defence (until the last 1 or 2 when his left hand kept dropping) and ring generalship. 58-55 isn't a wide score if you consider the 10-8 round!!
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I will support the arguments that suggest that anybody who thought Taylor was winning comprehensively at the time of the stoppage is a complete fool.
Good for you..
Was he winning the fight comprehensively? No..it was back and forth action
Could he have been winning on points comprehensively? Quite possibly because of the criteria of scoring points and the knockdown in round 2.
So think i'm a fool thats fine..not bothered. You can jog on. Anyways I've said my peice on why I think Taylor was ahead and i'm not the only one who thinks so. Not discussing it anymore. I can see the flip side why some people would have Pavlik ahead too but people using words like 'you'd be a fool to think that' or 'thats Impossible' piss me off but hey what can you do but give your reasons why.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I will support the arguments that suggest that anybody who thought Taylor was winning comprehensively at the time of the stoppage is a complete fool.
Good for you..
Was he winning the fight comprehensively? No..it was back and forth action
Could he have been winning on points comprehensively? Quite possibly because of the criteria of scoring points and the knockdown in round 2.
So think i'm a fool thats fine..not bothered. You can jog on. Anyways I've said my peice on why I think Taylor was ahead and i'm not the only one who thinks so. Not discussing it anymore. I can see the flip side why some people would have Pavlik ahead too but people using words like 'you'd be a fool to think that' or 'thats Impossible' piss me off but hey what can you do but give your reasons why.
Look, it was a great fight and I really enjoyed it.
But look at the stats, they really do tell a story here. Taylor blew himself out in the 2nd and it doesnt matter how pitty patter Pavlik looked....he was throwing real punches there and they told and most importantly.....they were landing.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
Why does everyone keep throwing the stats in for the arguement?? They tell me that Pavlik was missing a lot because Taylor landed the same amount if not more and threw a hell of a lot less!? Judges normally love accurate clean punching and making your opponent miss also counts for points!!
I don't give a shit that you all don't agree with me because I can understand how someone could have scored it either way! Certain words used are just unjustified! Things like 'Were the judges smoking crack', 'impossible' and 'you'd be a fool for scoring it that way' aren't words that should be used for a fight that was fairly close and difficult to score!! 58-55 is a close score considering the knockdown!
Anyway I keep getting dragged back in to this! lol I think i'm going to get fired from work soon and it will all be Saddo's fault! :lickish:
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
1 Pavlik
2 Taylor
3 Pavlik
4 Pavlik
5 Taylor
6 Pavlik
I can't see how you can have Taylor up by 3.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
Why does everyone keep throwing the stats in for the arguement?? They tell me that Pavlik was missing a lot because Taylor landed the same amount if not more and threw a hell of a lot less!? Judges normally love accurate clean punching and making your opponent miss also counts for points!!
I don't give a S*** that you all don't agree with me because I can understand how someone could have scored it either way! Certain words used are just unjustified! Things like 'Were the judges smoking crack', 'impossible' and 'you'd be a fool for scoring it that way' aren't words that should be used for a fight that was fairly close and difficult to score!! 58-55 is a close score considering the knockdown!
Anyway I keep getting dragged back in to this! lol I think i'm going to get fired from work soon and it will all be Saddo's fault! :lickish:
CC m8 i had it the exact same way, you score rounds on the way you interpret the fight is going and what you like to see. Personally i scored it on accuracy, efficency and the quality of the punches i scored the Hopkins Winky fight the same way and gave the fight to Hopkins eventhough im a Winky fan. To call people fools idiots ect is simply out of order and completely direspectful. The judges scored the fight similar and all of them had pritty much the same score and they are professionals. The fight was close and hard to score and you just got to go with who you feel did the better work.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
I think allot of people would agree that Taylor looked very,very sharp. His jab was popping and he controlled the ring. He was very quick to counter and had allot of pop in his right hand. If he looked bad like Ouma and Spinks it would have never made it to the 5th round. Give Taylor credit that he looked great. He was in the best conditioning of his career Steward said. The fact he couldnt finish off Pavlik
is beyond me. Pavlik took some shots that would have knocked out most middle weights. I believe Pavlik is the better fighter of the two and I don't think fighting again at a higher weight would help if any thing it will disadvantage Taylor. They both weigh about the same natural why would you want to face him stronger and more muscled. Pavlik was too much and give him respect. How many other people including greats like Wright and Hopkins can say they knocked out Taylor.
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Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
1 Pavlik
2 Taylor
3 Pavlik
4 Pavlik
5 Taylor
6 Pavlik
I can't see how you can have Taylor up by 3.
I explained and explained how I had him up 3...if you can't see it, fair play mate but I can't keep explaining myself.
Thats your scorecard..fine. 58-55 was mine. (Don't forget 10-8 round) I had Taylor easily taking the 1st..don't care what the stats say now..but that was my clear view of it.
