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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
shame, I just cc clicked you on another thread when you correctly informed the punters it's not all about blood, gore, ko's etc
which bit in particular do you have issues with? 8)
you can take it back if you like.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Because I have been privy that's all you need to know, I'm not pulling some bighead secret S*** on you guys, I wouldn't do that. In fact if people dig hard enough they could probably find out for themselves.
Boxing fans are an unforgiving lot.
Nuh uh. I forgive you for pulling it out on me. :-* Heh heh heh.
I swear to Mrs Wacko, I've never pulled anything of Wackos :-X
Ahhhhhhhhhhh she wouldn't care. Go ahead...you can kiss & tell...Wacko has no shame. :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
He sad clicked Missy,he sad clicked me yesterday. He sad clicks anyone that bad mouths his Manny or that does not lick Manny's balls.
Ahhhhhhhhhh...one of those. Gotcha.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Follow up Question.
Is Barrera going to be one of those guys that actually makes more money after he retires than he did during his career???
I mean everybody would want to hire him to be their lawyer because of his status!
Like Big Geroge? Good question? Being a lawyer is hard work though,he's probably made neough $$4 to see out the rest of his life comfortably,so he won't need to. He's also still a partner in GBP isn't he? Maybe he can help promote more fights in the future.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
earned more respect? From who exactly? Fans who like to see boxers get smashed up and fight past their best? Don't get me wrong I like to see a good scrap but I also admire skill, you know the skill of hit and not be hit. I've seen Barrera as a boxer and brawler and Morales as less flexible.
& he did not just go in there to survive, I find that insulting.
Well considering most knowledgeable fans consider thier legacies close,I'd say alot of true boxing fans appreciate both aspects.Morales earned more respect for trying to win the fight.
And you find the notion of MAB surviving insulting but it could be considered true,based on his comments after the fight,the fact that his corner told him he needed to fight more etc. And correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't MAB past his best? I know the skill of hit and not get hit. It wasn't what MAB was doing v Pac.
I also admire skill greatly,the skill Morales has displayed all throughtout his career up until fairly late where he fell in love with brawling.The skill he displayed beating Manny the first time,which MAB could not achieve using his felxibility.
I'm also one of the first to admonish Morales for his decision to carry on fighting. Whats your point?
come on now Morales couldn't resist getting involved in a brawl it was his thing and it's what people liked about his style and my overall point is if you failed to figure it out can clearly be spelt out by hitmandonny. I like thinking fighters.
EM outbrawled manny and later suffered for it.
Why rate Manny so highly when he couldn't finish off someone past their best. I think the statement mostly refers to the know nothings who said Barrera would get knocked out in 3 rounds. An improved Manny couldn't do it 4 years later?
All I know and I do know this is, the two stoppages he has on his record shouldn't be there but because of circumstance they are. All history books and regular fans see is the W L D. It isn't sour grapes, it depends on what you know.
furthermore I don't think Barrera/Morales should be judged solely based on their performances with Paquiao. That's like condensing Tyson to his Buster Douglas moment.
if you're bringing that up Morales lost to Raheem......say no more
Bored with this.
:sadclick: it case you wonder who gave you one it was me cause honestly this post here is rediculous
It's ridiculous...& I'm just curious which one you sad clicked...Gamo or Missy...because both sides of that coin are valid.
I was talking to missy, I don't agree in what shes said "Why rate Manny so highly when he couldn't finish off someone past their best" if thats the case then why rate anyone highly just cause the manny we're use to is knocking out all his oppenent in all of his wins his suddenly not deserving to be rated high?
That actually is a good point.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
earned more respect? From who exactly? Fans who like to see boxers get smashed up and fight past their best? Don't get me wrong I like to see a good scrap but I also admire skill, you know the skill of hit and not be hit. I've seen Barrera as a boxer and brawler and Morales as less flexible.
& he did not just go in there to survive, I find that insulting.
Well considering most knowledgeable fans consider thier legacies close,I'd say alot of true boxing fans appreciate both aspects.Morales earned more respect for trying to win the fight.
And you find the notion of MAB surviving insulting but it could be considered true,based on his comments after the fight,the fact that his corner told him he needed to fight more etc. And correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't MAB past his best? I know the skill of hit and not get hit. It wasn't what MAB was doing v Pac.
I also admire skill greatly,the skill Morales has displayed all throughtout his career up until fairly late where he fell in love with brawling.The skill he displayed beating Manny the first time,which MAB could not achieve using his felxibility.
I'm also one of the first to admonish Morales for his decision to carry on fighting. Whats your point?
come on now Morales couldn't resist getting involved in a brawl it was his thing and it's what people liked about his style and my overall point is if you failed to figure it out can clearly be spelt out by hitmandonny. I like thinking fighters.
EM outbrawled manny and later suffered for it.
Why rate Manny so highly when he couldn't finish off someone past their best. I think the statement mostly refers to the know nothings who said Barrera would get knocked out in 3 rounds. An improved Manny couldn't do it 4 years later?
All I know and I do know this is, the two stoppages he has on his record shouldn't be there but because of circumstance they are. All history books and regular fans see is the W L D. It isn't sour grapes, it depends on what you know.
furthermore I don't think Barrera/Morales should be judged solely based on their performances with Paquiao. That's like condensing Tyson to his Buster Douglas moment.
if you're bringing that up Morales lost to Raheem......say no more
Bored with this.
:sadclick: it case you wonder who gave you one it was me cause honestly this post here is rediculous
It's ridiculous...& I'm just curious which one you sad clicked...Gamo or Missy...because both sides of that coin are valid.
He sad clicked Missy,he sad clicked me yesterday. He sad clicks anyone that bad mouths his Manny or that does not lick Manny's balls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Because I have been privy that's all you need to know, I'm not pulling some bighead secret shit on you guys, I wouldn't do that. In fact if people dig hard enough they could probably find out for themselves.
Boxing fans are an unforgiving lot.
Fair enough.You made your points and I made mine. And I think I know what you're alluding too.MAB's traumas during his first fight with Manny?
thats pretty mature gamo, all I know is we all are suppose to use the s.d buttons and c.c buttons. I'm honest when it comes to coolclicking some and I'm also honest in sad clicking someone. we all do sad clicks the difference is i will tell it. I'm not trying to get drawn into your insults, but don't mistake me for what i'm not.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Follow up Question.
Is Barrera going to be one of those guys that actually makes more money after he retires than he did during his career???
I mean everybody would want to hire him to be their lawyer because of his status!
Like Big Geroge? Good question? Being a lawyer is hard work though,he's probably made neough $$4 to see out the rest of his life comfortably,so he won't need to. He's also still a partner in GBP isn't he? Maybe he can help promote more fights in the future.
Oh i also discounted that he has the tendancy to punch guys in the face when the verbally argue with him (Morales, McKinney,) Probably wouldn be welcomed as much in the modern Mexican Courtroom.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
That's why he's so cool.
Did the things mere mortals say they'll do but never do.
Insult my country - smack in the face
Keeping calling me a fag & I'll hit you - fag- punch in the face.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
earned more respect? From who exactly? Fans who like to see boxers get smashed up and fight past their best? Don't get me wrong I like to see a good scrap but I also admire skill, you know the skill of hit and not be hit. I've seen Barrera as a boxer and brawler and Morales as less flexible.
& he did not just go in there to survive, I find that insulting.
Well considering most knowledgeable fans consider thier legacies close,I'd say alot of true boxing fans appreciate both aspects.Morales earned more respect for trying to win the fight.
And you find the notion of MAB surviving insulting but it could be considered true,based on his comments after the fight,the fact that his corner told him he needed to fight more etc. And correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't MAB past his best? I know the skill of hit and not get hit. It wasn't what MAB was doing v Pac.
I also admire skill greatly,the skill Morales has displayed all throughtout his career up until fairly late where he fell in love with brawling.The skill he displayed beating Manny the first time,which MAB could not achieve using his felxibility.
I'm also one of the first to admonish Morales for his decision to carry on fighting. Whats your point?
come on now Morales couldn't resist getting involved in a brawl it was his thing and it's what people liked about his style and my overall point is if you failed to figure it out can clearly be spelt out by hitmandonny. I like thinking fighters.
EM outbrawled manny and later suffered for it.
Why rate Manny so highly when he couldn't finish off someone past their best. I think the statement mostly refers to the know nothings who said Barrera would get knocked out in 3 rounds. An improved Manny couldn't do it 4 years later?
All I know and I do know this is, the two stoppages he has on his record shouldn't be there but because of circumstance they are. All history books and regular fans see is the W L D. It isn't sour grapes, it depends on what you know.
furthermore I don't think Barrera/Morales should be judged solely based on their performances with Paquiao. That's like condensing Tyson to his Buster Douglas moment.
if you're bringing that up Morales lost to Raheem......say no more
Bored with this.
:sadclick: it case you wonder who gave you one it was me cause honestly this post here is rediculous
It's ridiculous...& I'm just curious which one you sad clicked...Gamo or Missy...because both sides of that coin are valid.
I was talking to missy, I don't agree in what shes said "Why rate Manny so highly when he couldn't finish off someone past their best" if thats the case then why rate anyone highly just cause the manny we're use to is knocking out all his oppenent in all of his wins his suddenly not deserving to be rated high? I think thats rediculous cause floyd hasn't stopped anyone since mitchell and he has been fighting old guys with a losing average of atleast 4 or 5. I think people are getting suckered into believing the pac vs mab 2 was a bad fight but I think if you look at it in a more mature way, marco still lost against pac in his own prefered pace and style and that itself deserves some credit.
"All I know and I do know this is, the two stoppages he has on his record shouldn't be there but because of circumstance they are. All history books and regular fans see is the W L D. It isn't sour grapes, it depends on what you know."
and I also didn't agree on this becuase it is rediculous to think the two stoppage shouldn't be there, history books do show W L D ofcourse, but why shouldn't they be recorded when they took place and were produce by hard workers its just not right to think of taking away someones achievements.
with reference to not stopping him - that is in reference to all those who took the 1st fight as an indication of how the 2nd fight would go which leads to my second point below.
I don't see it as taking away an achievement but I do believe background to a fight plays a part and it's something that most people don't get to know about until later. Boxing it appears is the only sport where nothing is allowed to go wrong, if anyone mentions that something went wrong they get called a sore loser. To me that's unfair.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Morales may have done better than Barrera in getting a win against Pac. But it must be remembered that Barrera has just taken the so called "improved Pac" to the distance in a pretty close fight and at the ripe old age of 33. He did okay, but I feel if he had pushed the boat a little more that he could have beaten the Pac of this weekend.
In terms of career wins and longevity Barrera will go down as the greater fighter.
cc
CC right back.
There is a lot of criticism of Barrera in the wake of the Pac fight. I think most of the cynicism comes from those who predicted a Pac knockout and were let down by just how far from it he was.
Barrera has had a great career. And just taken the pound for pound number 2 fighter to the distance in a close fight. Its not all that bad a way to go out when all is said and done. He wasnt beat down and the rounds he lost were not heavily one sided.
Barrera is a calculated fighter these days. Perhaps a little too calculated this time out, but at 33 pushing 34 perhaps thats the wise option. Maybe.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
I was going to step in but you Barrera fans are doing fine on your own keep up good work ;)
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
I find this amazing....
Morales gets the praise because he went toe-to-toe like a fool and got anhialted twice for doing so, both times at an age where most fighters are considred to be in their prime?
Sure marco got slaughtered in his first fight with pac, but went on to beat morales who schooled pac, and took a prime pac to a few rounds of winning at an ge of 33 and in his 70 pro fight? pretty dam impressive tbh...
This "fight like a mexican" is bullshit, everytime morales tried doing that with barrera, he come out second best in everyround he done it. Barrera fought a smart mans fight, and when the action did heat up with pac he was the one who was landing the more telling blows, the one who stunned pac in the second round, hurt him in the fight...
Overall Barrera's career is alot better than morale's, for one he beat him 2-1.
We all love to see fighters go toe-to-toe and put on a never forget fight, but this isn't the WWF, this is about winning, and at 33 and going through all you have, going toe to toe with pac would of been stupid at this point of his career, this was his last fight for a damn good reason, coz he is past what he was. Staying on the outside, frustrating him, moving in circles non stop to try and neutralise that straight left, and keep him guessing was the best option.
I'm curious, the ones of you who say Morales won more respect for getting KTFO in early rounds against pac, if you were training Barrera to beat pac, you would tell him to go toe-to-toe with pac in his last fight? or during it?
Barrera fought smart and just about lost on my card and alot of others, morales fought like a puncher whos only chance was to get a lucky punch of to get a KO, but got KTFO in doing so.
Morales was washed up and finished at like 27 or 28 and getting KTFO by people? Barrera was past it at 33 but still pushing some of the best p4p fighters in the world to just a few rounds of a win.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
I find this amazing....
Morales gets the praise because he went toe-to-toe like a fool and got anhialted twice for doing so, both times at an age where most fighters are considred to be in their prime?
Sure marco got slaughtered in his first fight with pac, but went on to beat morales who schooled pac, and took a prime pac to a few rounds of winning at an ge of 33 and in his 70 pro fight? pretty dam impressive tbh...
This "fight like a mexican" is bullshit, everytime morales tried doing that with barrera, he come out second best in everyround he done it. Barrera fought a smart mans fight, and when the action did heat up with pac he was the one who was landing the more telling blows, the one who stunned pac in the second round, hurt him in the fight...
Overall Barrera's career is alot better than morale's, for one he beat him 2-1.
We all love to see fighters go toe-to-toe and put on a never forget fight, but this isn't the WWF, this is about winning, and at 33 and going through all you have, going toe to toe with pac would of been stupid at this point of his career, this was his last fight for a damn good reason, coz he is past what he was. Staying on the outside, frustrating him, moving in circles non stop to try and neutralise that straight left, and keep him guessing was the best option.
I'm curious, the ones of you who say Morales won more respect for getting KTFO in early rounds against pac, if you were training Barrera to beat pac, you would tell him to go toe-to-toe with pac in his last fight? or during it?
Barrera fought smart and just about lost on my card and alot of others, morales fought like a puncher whos only chance was to get a lucky punch of to get a KO, but got KTFO in doing so.
Morales was washed up and finished at like 27 or 28 and getting KTFO by people? Barrera was past it at 33 but still pushing some of the best p4p fighters in the world to just a few rounds of a win.
Well said mate :coolclick:
Im watching the Pac: Barrera 2 fight for the second time now. It seems Barrera is making the fight awkward for Pac with his circling and technical boxing more than anything else. Barrera made this a tough fight for Pac.
Final 2 fights against Marquez and Pac to close out a career and very decent performances in both for Barrera.
The guy deserves credit for fighting the best and holding his own even in this twilight stage of his career.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
I find this amazing....
Morales gets the praise because he went toe-to-toe like a fool and got anhialted twice for doing so, both times at an age where most fighters are considred to be in their prime?
Sure marco got slaughtered in his first fight with pac, but went on to beat morales who schooled pac, and took a prime pac to a few rounds of winning at an ge of 33 and in his 70 pro fight? pretty dam impressive tbh...
This "fight like a mexican" is bullshit, everytime morales tried doing that with barrera, he come out second best in everyround he done it. Barrera fought a smart mans fight, and when the action did heat up with pac he was the one who was landing the more telling blows, the one who stunned pac in the second round, hurt him in the fight...
Overall Barrera's career is alot better than morale's, for one he beat him 2-1.
We all love to see fighters go toe-to-toe and put on a never forget fight, but this isn't the WWF, this is about winning, and at 33 and going through all you have, going toe to toe with pac would of been stupid at this point of his career, this was his last fight for a damn good reason, coz he is past what he was. Staying on the outside, frustrating him, moving in circles non stop to try and neutralise that straight left, and keep him guessing was the best option.
I'm curious, the ones of you who say Morales won more respect for getting KTFO in early rounds against pac, if you were training Barrera to beat pac, you would tell him to go toe-to-toe with pac in his last fight? or during it?
Barrera fought smart and just about lost on my card and alot of others, morales fought like a puncher whos only chance was to get a lucky punch of to get a KO, but got KTFO in doing so.
Morales was washed up and finished at like 27 or 28 and getting KTFO by people? Barrera was past it at 33 but still pushing some of the best p4p fighters in the world to just a few rounds of a win.
Well said mate :coolclick:
Im watching the Pac: Barrera 2 fight for the second time now. It seems Barrera is making the fight awkward for Pac with his circling and technical boxing more than anything else. Barrera made this a tough fight for Pac.
Final 2 fights against Marquez and Pac to close out a career and very decent performances in both for Barrera.
The guy deserves credit for fighting the best and holding his own even in this twilight stage of his career.
:coolclick: back to you and missy...
Barrera just finished his career fighting to of the ebst p4p fighters in the world and more than held his own in them, most fighter finish off their career fighting nobodys or getting a beat down.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
I find this amazing....
Morales gets the praise because he went toe-to-toe like a fool and got anhialted twice for doing so, both times at an age where most fighters are considred to be in their prime?
Sure marco got slaughtered in his first fight with pac, but went on to beat morales who schooled pac, and took a prime pac to a few rounds of winning at an ge of 33 and in his 70 pro fight? pretty dam impressive tbh...
This "fight like a mexican" is bullshit, everytime morales tried doing that with barrera, he come out second best in everyround he done it. Barrera fought a smart mans fight, and when the action did heat up with pac he was the one who was landing the more telling blows, the one who stunned pac in the second round, hurt him in the fight...
Overall Barrera's career is alot better than morale's, for one he beat him 2-1.
We all love to see fighters go toe-to-toe and put on a never forget fight, but this isn't the WWF, this is about winning, and at 33 and going through all you have, going toe to toe with pac would of been stupid at this point of his career, this was his last fight for a damn good reason, coz he is past what he was. Staying on the outside, frustrating him, moving in circles non stop to try and neutralise that straight left, and keep him guessing was the best option.
I'm curious, the ones of you who say Morales won more respect for getting KTFO in early rounds against pac, if you were training Barrera to beat pac, you would tell him to go toe-to-toe with pac in his last fight? or during it?
Barrera fought smart and just about lost on my card and alot of others, morales fought like a puncher whos only chance was to get a lucky punch of to get a KO, but got KTFO in doing so.
Morales was washed up and finished at like 27 or 28 and getting KTFO by people? Barrera was past it at 33 but still pushing some of the best p4p fighters in the world to just a few rounds of a win.
Well said mate :coolclick:
Im watching the Pac: Barrera 2 fight for the second time now. It seems Barrera is making the fight awkward for Pac with his circling and technical boxing more than anything else. Barrera made this a tough fight for Pac.
Final 2 fights against Marquez and Pac to close out a career and very decent performances in both for Barrera.
The guy deserves credit for fighting the best and holding his own even in this twilight stage of his career.
:coolclick: back to you and missy...
Barrera just finished his career fighting to of the ebst p4p fighters in the world and more than held his own in them, most fighter finish off their career fighting nobodys or getting a beat down.
I agree Preme :coolclick: its nice way to end your career imo fighting two greats fighters like Pac and Marquez and holding your own is damn impressive and im a Barrera fan and i wish Barrera all the best in his retirement he has nothing left to prove.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwnedByPacstraightleft
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
I find this amazing....
Morales gets the praise because he went toe-to-toe like a fool and got anhialted twice for doing so, both times at an age where most fighters are considred to be in their prime?
Sure marco got slaughtered in his first fight with pac, but went on to beat morales who schooled pac, and took a prime pac to a few rounds of winning at an ge of 33 and in his 70 pro fight? pretty dam impressive tbh...
This "fight like a mexican" is bullshit, everytime morales tried doing that with barrera, he come out second best in everyround he done it. Barrera fought a smart mans fight, and when the action did heat up with pac he was the one who was landing the more telling blows, the one who stunned pac in the second round, hurt him in the fight...
Overall Barrera's career is alot better than morale's, for one he beat him 2-1.
We all love to see fighters go toe-to-toe and put on a never forget fight, but this isn't the WWF, this is about winning, and at 33 and going through all you have, going toe to toe with pac would of been stupid at this point of his career, this was his last fight for a damn good reason, coz he is past what he was. Staying on the outside, frustrating him, moving in circles non stop to try and neutralise that straight left, and keep him guessing was the best option.
I'm curious, the ones of you who say Morales won more respect for getting KTFO in early rounds against pac, if you were training Barrera to beat pac, you would tell him to go toe-to-toe with pac in his last fight? or during it?
Barrera fought smart and just about lost on my card and alot of others, morales fought like a puncher whos only chance was to get a lucky punch of to get a KO, but got KTFO in doing so.
Morales was washed up and finished at like 27 or 28 and getting KTFO by people? Barrera was past it at 33 but still pushing some of the best p4p fighters in the world to just a few rounds of a win.
Well said mate :coolclick:
Im watching the Pac: Barrera 2 fight for the second time now. It seems Barrera is making the fight awkward for Pac with his circling and technical boxing more than anything else. Barrera made this a tough fight for Pac.
Final 2 fights against Marquez and Pac to close out a career and very decent performances in both for Barrera.
The guy deserves credit for fighting the best and holding his own even in this twilight stage of his career.
:coolclick: back to you and missy...
Barrera just finished his career fighting to of the ebst p4p fighters in the world and more than held his own in them, most fighter finish off their career fighting nobodys or getting a beat down.
I agree Preme :coolclick: its nice way to end your career imo fighting two greats fighters like Pac and Marquez and holding your own is damn impressive and im a Barrera fan and i wish Barrera all the best in his retirement he has nothing left to prove.
:coolclick:
I know what you mean about nothing left to prove, its a happy/sad thing. you never want your fighter to retire, but your happy when they have the smarts to do so at that fight time.
Normally when your boy losses you are totaly gutted, i was after the JMM fight coz i thought marco won it..
but this time, it was a case of, well my firend, you done your best and you pushed him right until the end, can't ask nothing more from you than that - sad he lost yes, but not gutted, to happy, to much respect for a guy who everyone thought was going to get battered fight past his best and push pac to the very end.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
I find this amazing....
Morales gets the praise because he went toe-to-toe like a fool and got anhialted twice for doing so, both times at an age where most fighters are considred to be in their prime?
Sure marco got slaughtered in his first fight with pac, but went on to beat morales who schooled pac, and took a prime pac to a few rounds of winning at an ge of 33 and in his 70 pro fight? pretty dam impressive tbh...
This "fight like a mexican" is bullshit, everytime morales tried doing that with barrera, he come out second best in everyround he done it. Barrera fought a smart mans fight, and when the action did heat up with pac he was the one who was landing the more telling blows, the one who stunned pac in the second round, hurt him in the fight...
Overall Barrera's career is alot better than morale's, for one he beat him 2-1.
We all love to see fighters go toe-to-toe and put on a never forget fight, but this isn't the WWF, this is about winning, and at 33 and going through all you have, going toe to toe with pac would of been stupid at this point of his career, this was his last fight for a damn good reason, coz he is past what he was. Staying on the outside, frustrating him, moving in circles non stop to try and neutralise that straight left, and keep him guessing was the best option.
I'm curious, the ones of you who say Morales won more respect for getting KTFO in early rounds against pac, if you were training Barrera to beat pac, you would tell him to go toe-to-toe with pac in his last fight? or during it?
Barrera fought smart and just about lost on my card and alot of others, morales fought like a puncher whos only chance was to get a lucky punch of to get a KO, but got KTFO in doing so.
Morales was washed up and finished at like 27 or 28 and getting KTFO by people? Barrera was past it at 33 but still pushing some of the best p4p fighters in the world to just a few rounds of a win.
Well said mate :coolclick:
Im watching the Pac: Barrera 2 fight for the second time now. It seems Barrera is making the fight awkward for Pac with his circling and technical boxing more than anything else. Barrera made this a tough fight for Pac.
Final 2 fights against Marquez and Pac to close out a career and very decent performances in both for Barrera.
The guy deserves credit for fighting the best and holding his own even in this twilight stage of his career.
:coolclick: back to you and missy...
Barrera just finished his career fighting to of the ebst p4p fighters in the world and more than held his own in them, most fighter finish off their career fighting nobodys or getting a beat down.
Yes you got to hand it to MAB finished of by fighting p4p best , WERE AS JOKE CALZAGHE STARTED AND HAS ALWAYS FOUGHT NOTHING BUT STIFF AND HAS BEENS !!!!
now thats a great fighter for you ! take a page out of Calzaghes book Marco and you could have been a great !!! :Sarcasm: :appl:
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by Preme
I find this amazing....
Morales gets the praise because he went toe-to-toe like a fool and got anhialted twice for doing so, both times at an age where most fighters are considred to be in their prime?
Sure marco got slaughtered in his first fight with pac, but went on to beat morales who schooled pac, and took a prime pac to a few rounds of winning at an ge of 33 and in his 70 pro fight? pretty dam impressive tbh...
This "fight like a mexican" is bullshit, everytime morales tried doing that with barrera, he come out second best in everyround he done it. Barrera fought a smart mans fight, and when the action did heat up with pac he was the one who was landing the more telling blows, the one who stunned pac in the second round, hurt him in the fight...
Overall Barrera's career is alot better than morale's, for one he beat him 2-1.
We all love to see fighters go toe-to-toe and put on a never forget fight, but this isn't the WWF, this is about winning, and at 33 and going through all you have, going toe to toe with pac would of been stupid at this point of his career, this was his last fight for a damn good reason, coz he is past what he was. Staying on the outside, frustrating him, moving in circles non stop to try and neutralise that straight left, and keep him guessing was the best option.
I'm curious, the ones of you who say Morales won more respect for getting KTFO in early rounds against pac, if you were training Barrera to beat pac, you would tell him to go toe-to-toe with pac in his last fight? or during it?
Barrera fought smart and just about lost on my card and alot of others, morales fought like a puncher whos only chance was to get a lucky punch of to get a KO, but got KTFO in doing so.
Morales was washed up and finished at like 27 or 28 and getting KTFO by people? Barrera was past it at 33 but still pushing some of the best p4p fighters in the world to just a few rounds of a win.
Well said mate :coolclick:
Im watching the Pac: Barrera 2 fight for the second time now. It seems Barrera is making the fight awkward for Pac with his circling and technical boxing more than anything else. Barrera made this a tough fight for Pac.
Final 2 fights against Marquez and Pac to close out a career and very decent performances in both for Barrera.
The guy deserves credit for fighting the best and holding his own even in this twilight stage of his career.
:coolclick: back to you and missy...
Barrera just finished his career fighting to of the ebst p4p fighters in the world and more than held his own in them, most fighter finish off their career fighting nobodys or getting a beat down.
Yes you got to hand it to MAB finished of by fighting p4p best , WERE AS JOKE CALZAGHE STARTED AND HAS ALWAYS FOUGHT NOTHING BUT STIFF AND HAS BEENS !!!!
now thats a great fighter for you ! take a page out of Calzaghes book Marco and you could have been a great !!! :Sarcasm: :appl:
Sorry sweetheart but first off who are you? second, you got a problem with me or something? why exactly are you bringing calzaghe into this, because i'm a calzaghe fan?
seriously, grow up andstop trying to ruin a perfectly good thread you dumb fucking child
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
guys mab can actually still beat everybody else in the division, guzman soto valero etc. he really does not need to retire, his not washed up, past it yea maybe but washed up is not mab.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
guys mab can actually still beat everybody else in the division, guzman soto valero etc. he really does not need to retire, his not washed up, past it yea maybe but washed up is not mab.
Irrelevant now. Barrera is retired.
Maybe Pac can try fighting them. Its his turn to lead the way!
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
guys mab can actually still beat everybody else in the division, guzman soto valero etc. he really does not need to retire, his not washed up, past it yea maybe but washed up is not mab.
Irrelevant now. Barrera is retired.
Maybe Pac can try fighting them. Its his turn to lead the way!
yea now that both eric and mab is out the way pac can move on and fight these other guys that haven't yet made it as big but still jmm remains.
pac jmm 2 is the one I would really love to see, for now my gut say pac but my heart sa jmm but I'll have to see how jmm looks in his next fight to really choose.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
guys mab can actually still beat everybody else in the division, guzman soto valero etc. he really does not need to retire, his not washed up, past it yea maybe but washed up is not mab.
Irrelevant now. Barrera is retired.
Maybe Pac can try fighting them. Its his turn to lead the way!
yea now that both eric and mab is out the way pac can move on and fight these other guys that haven't yet made it as big but still jmm remains.
pac jmm 2 is the one I would really love to see, for now
my gut say pac but my heart sa jmm but I'll have to see how jmm looks in his next fight to really choose.
:o :o :o So you can be impartial??>!? I take back what I said earlier bro and I agree,it'll be a close fight. JMM's next fight v Juarez will tell us alot.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
MORALES in my opinion. In thier 3 fights I thought Morales won the first 2 and lost the last one by a point. He beat Pac in what turned out to be his last win, but when it came to the rematch and especially the last fight with Pac, Morales gave it his all and wasn't in there just to survive like MAB.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
For overall career, I count them even in the heads up matchups, no matter what the actual outcomes.
Looking to their other fighters, MAB's biggest non-Morales win is Hamed. Morales biggest non-MAB win in Pacman. Pretty damn close, if you ask me. Some would argue that Naz was a step past it when MAB beat him, and most would agree that the Pacman Morales beat was a year or two before his peak. Either way, both guys have one crowning achievement on their resume, aside from their own trilogy.
Other than wins over Hamed and Morales, MAB's biggest wins are ???????? - some good fighters - Kevin Kelly, an older Tapia, Maurin, Ayala, Peden.
Besides wins over Barrera and Pac, Morales beat Carlos Hernandez, Kelly, Junior Jones (who beat MAB twice), Jesus Chavez, In-Jin Chi, and Ayala (like MAB).
I gotta give the edge to Morales, on secondary-level wins.
Unfortunately, Morales lost 4 of his last 5. Let's look at that. Two he lost to Pac, who Barrera could never beat, one was a VERY close fight to Barrera, and the other two were in at 135, where we have never seen Barrera fight.
I love MAB, and my first instinct was that he had the better overall career, but as I broke it down, I have to give the overall career advantage to Morales. In the twighlight of their careers, MAB was the superior fighter. There are any number of reasons why that is. Morales weight issues couldn't have helped him much in that regard, but If I were making an all-time P4P, I would have to put Morales a notch or two ahead.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
For overall career, I count them even in the heads up matchups, no matter what the actual outcomes.
Looking to their other fighters, MAB's biggest non-Morales win is Hamed. Morales biggest non-MAB win in Pacman. Pretty damn close, if you ask me. Some would argue that Naz was a step past it when MAB beat him, and most would agree that the Pacman Morales beat was a year or two before his peak. Either way, both guys have one crowning achievement on their resume, aside from their own trilogy.
Other than wins over Hamed and Morales, MAB's biggest wins are ???????? - some good fighters - Kevin Kelly, an older Tapia, Maurin, Ayala, Peden.
Besides wins over Barrera and Pac, Morales beat Carlos Hernandez, Kelly, Junior Jones (who beat MAB twice), Jesus Chavez, In-Jin Chi, and Ayala (like MAB).
I gotta give the edge to Morales, on secondary-level wins.
Unfortunately, Morales lost 4 of his last 5. Let's look at that. Two he lost to Pac, who Barrera could never beat, one was a VERY close fight to Barrera, and the other two were in at 135, where we have never seen Barrera fight.
I love MAB, and my first instinct was that he had the better overall career, but as I broke it down, I have to give the overall career advantage to Morales. In the twighlight of their careers, MAB was the superior fighter. There are any number of reasons why that is. Morales weight issues couldn't have helped him much in that regard, but If I were making an all-time P4P, I would have to put Morales a notch or two ahead.
Sean, good breakdown. But...on MAB's resume why don't you mention Juarez. Juarez was one of the biggest punchers and up coming stars when Barrera fought him. Marco was no youngster when he warred out a win in the first fight and schooled him in the second. Many people don't give him enough credit for those fights. Not to mention Barrera had the cajones to fight Marquez towards the end of his career...a fight that was extremely close. Morales, as well as many others, ducked Marquez for years. As far as the MAB vs. Morales trilogy...i had it 2 wins to 1 for Marco. Both of them are great fighters...but Marco's intelligence and longevity make him the better of the two.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
And for the record....Barrera was preparing to fight Chavez at 135 before Chavez got hurt and had to pull out.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
For overall career, I count them even in the heads up matchups, no matter what the actual outcomes.
Looking to their other fighters, MAB's biggest non-Morales win is Hamed. Morales biggest non-MAB win in Pacman. Pretty damn close, if you ask me. Some would argue that Naz was a step past it when MAB beat him, and most would agree that the Pacman Morales beat was a year or two before his peak. Either way, both guys have one crowning achievement on their resume, aside from their own trilogy.
Other than wins over Hamed and Morales, MAB's biggest wins are ???????? - some good fighters - Kevin Kelly, an older Tapia, Maurin, Ayala, Peden.
Besides wins over Barrera and Pac, Morales beat Carlos Hernandez, Kelly, Junior Jones (who beat MAB twice), Jesus Chavez, In-Jin Chi, and Ayala (like MAB).
I gotta give the edge to Morales, on secondary-level wins.
Unfortunately, Morales lost 4 of his last 5. Let's look at that. Two he lost to Pac, who Barrera could never beat, one was a VERY close fight to Barrera, and the other two were in at 135, where we have never seen Barrera fight.
I love MAB, and my first instinct was that he had the better overall career, but as I broke it down, I have to give the overall career advantage to Morales. In the twighlight of their careers, MAB was the superior fighter. There are any number of reasons why that is. Morales weight issues couldn't have helped him much in that regard, but If I were making an all-time P4P, I would have to put Morales a notch or two ahead.
Sean, good breakdown. But...on MAB's resume why don't you mention Juarez. Juarez was one of the biggest punchers and up coming stars when Barrera fought him. Marco was no youngster when he warred out a win in the first fight and schooled him in the second. Many people don't give him enough credit for those fights. Not to mention Barrera had the cajones to fight Marquez towards the end of his career...a fight that was extremely close. Morales, as well as many others, ducked Marquez for years. As far as the MAB vs. Morales trilogy...i had it 2 wins to 1 for Marco. Both of them are great fighters...but Marco's intelligence and longevity make him the better of the two.
I guess if you give him credit for Juarez it matters some, but I don't really rate Juarez all that highly. That he needed to war out a win with Juarez in the first fight shows me great heart, but it doesn't show me much else. He should have schooled him in the first fight. As for fighting JMM late in his career, lets not forget that JMM is pretty damn late in his career, too, and although it was a close fight, I felt JMM won pretty clearly (not easily, but clearly).
I will forever love MAB for his professionalism, his ability to reinvent himself, and for kicking the ass of Naseem Hamed. I have rooted for MAB consistantly, even against Morales. I wish I could give the edge, but I have to give Morales credit for his greater number of wins against B+ and A- fighters, and for beating Pac, even just the once, which to me is an even greater win than Barrera beating Naz.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
CC to all for giving your nice opinions.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
For overall career, I count them even in the heads up matchups, no matter what the actual outcomes.
Looking to their other fighters, MAB's biggest non-Morales win is Hamed. Morales biggest non-MAB win in Pacman. Pretty damn close, if you ask me. Some would argue that Naz was a step past it when MAB beat him, and most would agree that the Pacman Morales beat was a year or two before his peak. Either way, both guys have one crowning achievement on their resume, aside from their own trilogy.
Other than wins over Hamed and Morales, MAB's biggest wins are ???????? - some good fighters - Kevin Kelly, an older Tapia, Maurin, Ayala, Peden.
Besides wins over Barrera and Pac, Morales beat Carlos Hernandez, Kelly, Junior Jones (who beat MAB twice), Jesus Chavez, In-Jin Chi, and Ayala (like MAB).
I gotta give the edge to Morales, on secondary-level wins.
Unfortunately, Morales lost 4 of his last 5. Let's look at that. Two he lost to Pac, who Barrera could never beat, one was a VERY close fight to Barrera, and the other two were in at 135, where we have never seen Barrera fight.
I love MAB, and my first instinct was that he had the better overall career, but as I broke it down, I have to give the overall career advantage to Morales. In the twighlight of their careers, MAB was the superior fighter. There are any number of reasons why that is. Morales weight issues couldn't have helped him much in that regard, but If I were making an all-time P4P, I would have to put Morales a notch or two ahead.
Sean, good breakdown. But...on MAB's resume why don't you mention Juarez. Juarez was one of the biggest punchers and up coming stars when Barrera fought him. Marco was no youngster when he warred out a win in the first fight and schooled him in the second. Many people don't give him enough credit for those fights. Not to mention Barrera had the cajones to fight Marquez towards the end of his career...a fight that was extremely close. Morales, as well as many others, ducked Marquez for years. As far as the MAB vs. Morales trilogy...i had it 2 wins to 1 for Marco. Both of them are great fighters...but Marco's intelligence and longevity make him the better of the two.
I guess if you give him credit for Juarez it matters some, but I don't really rate Juarez all that highly. That he needed to war out a win with Juarez in the first fight shows me great heart, but it doesn't show me much else. He should have schooled him in the first fight. As for fighting JMM late in his career, lets not forget that JMM is pretty damn late in his career, too, and although it was a close fight, I felt JMM won pretty clearly (not easily, but clearly).
I will forever love MAB for his professionalism, his ability to reinvent himself, and for kicking the a** of Naseem Hamed. I have rooted for MAB consistantly, even against Morales. I wish I could give the edge, but I have to give Morales credit for his greater number of wins against B+ and A- fighters, and for beating Pac, even just the once, which to me is an even greater win than Barrera beating Naz.
Well...a difference in opinion i guess. Say what you want about Juarez now...but he was a younger, stronger fighter than MAB when they fought. And don't forget, before the first Juarez fight Barrera was preparing to go up to 135 to fight Chavez. When that fight fell through...he all of a sudden had to adjust to fight another fighter...hence his sub par showing in the first fight (not to mention Juarez is a strong and skilled puncher). In the second fight...Marco showed his true self and out classed his younger foe. As for JMM...sure...he ain't a young buck....but he is still one of the pound 4 pound best fighters in the game...a fighter almost that almost all the big names (with the exception of Pac and Marco) have ducked. I personally thought that Barrera should have one that fight...but at the very least it was damn close.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
For overall career, I count them even in the heads up matchups, no matter what the actual outcomes.
Looking to their other fighters, MAB's biggest non-Morales win is Hamed. Morales biggest non-MAB win in Pacman. Pretty damn close, if you ask me. Some would argue that Naz was a step past it when MAB beat him, and most would agree that the Pacman Morales beat was a year or two before his peak. Either way, both guys have one crowning achievement on their resume, aside from their own trilogy.
Other than wins over Hamed and Morales, MAB's biggest wins are ???????? - some good fighters - Kevin Kelly, an older Tapia, Maurin, Ayala, Peden.
Besides wins over Barrera and Pac, Morales beat Carlos Hernandez, Kelly, Junior Jones (who beat MAB twice), Jesus Chavez, In-Jin Chi, and Ayala (like MAB).
I gotta give the edge to Morales, on secondary-level wins.
Unfortunately, Morales lost 4 of his last 5. Let's look at that. Two he lost to Pac, who Barrera could never beat, one was a VERY close fight to Barrera, and the other two were in at 135, where we have never seen Barrera fight.
I love MAB, and my first instinct was that he had the better overall career, but as I broke it down, I have to give the overall career advantage to Morales. In the twighlight of their careers, MAB was the superior fighter. There are any number of reasons why that is. Morales weight issues couldn't have helped him much in that regard, but If I were making an all-time P4P, I would have to put Morales a notch or two ahead.
Sean, good breakdown. But...on MAB's resume why don't you mention Juarez. Juarez was one of the biggest punchers and up coming stars when Barrera fought him. Marco was no youngster when he warred out a win in the first fight and schooled him in the second. Many people don't give him enough credit for those fights. Not to mention Barrera had the cajones to fight Marquez towards the end of his career...a fight that was extremely close. Morales, as well as many others, ducked Marquez for years. As far as the MAB vs. Morales trilogy...i had it 2 wins to 1 for Marco. Both of them are great fighters...but Marco's intelligence and longevity make him the better of the two.
I guess if you give him credit for Juarez it matters some, but I don't really rate Juarez all that highly. That he needed to war out a win with Juarez in the first fight shows me great heart, but it doesn't show me much else. He should have schooled him in the first fight. As for fighting JMM late in his career, lets not forget that JMM is pretty damn late in his career, too, and although it was a close fight, I felt JMM won pretty clearly (not easily, but clearly).
I will forever love MAB for his professionalism, his ability to reinvent himself, and for kicking the a** of Naseem Hamed. I have rooted for MAB consistantly, even against Morales. I wish I could give the edge, but I have to give Morales credit for his greater number of wins against B+ and A- fighters, and for beating Pac, even just the once, which to me is an even greater win than Barrera beating Naz.
Well...a difference in opinion i guess. Say what you want about Juarez now...but he was a younger, stronger fighter than MAB when they fought. And don't forget, before the first Juarez fight Barrera was preparing to go up to 135 to fight Chavez. When that fight fell through...he all of a sudden had to adjust to fight another fighter...hence his sub par showing in the first fight (not to mention Juarez is a strong and skilled puncher). In the second fight...Marco showed his true self and out classed his younger foe. As for JMM...sure...he ain't a young buck....but he is still one of the pound 4 pound best fighters in the game...a fighter almost that almost all the big names (with the exception of Pac and Marco) have ducked. I personally thought that Barrera should have one that fight...but at the very least it was damn close.
Juarez was younger, stronger, less skilled, and one dimensional. You do give a pretty good reason why he struggled in the first fight, still, we have no basis to know how Barrera would have faired at 135. I suspect he would have done so well. We can agree to disagree on the JMM fight, but I give him props for taking the fight.
You make some good pro-MAB points, but you don't talk about Morales beating Hernandez and Junior Jones, who are far, far better fighters than say, Rocky Juarez, Peden, or Tapia in 2002. Wayne McCullough was still a damn good fighter in 1999, when Morales beat him.
Too bad Morales never fought Naz...that would have been fun. I think we can agree on that.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
For overall career, I count them even in the heads up matchups, no matter what the actual outcomes.
Looking to their other fighters, MAB's biggest non-Morales win is Hamed. Morales biggest non-MAB win in Pacman. Pretty damn close, if you ask me. Some would argue that Naz was a step past it when MAB beat him, and most would agree that the Pacman Morales beat was a year or two before his peak. Either way, both guys have one crowning achievement on their resume, aside from their own trilogy.
Other than wins over Hamed and Morales, MAB's biggest wins are ???????? - some good fighters - Kevin Kelly, an older Tapia, Maurin, Ayala, Peden.
Besides wins over Barrera and Pac, Morales beat Carlos Hernandez, Kelly, Junior Jones (who beat MAB twice), Jesus Chavez, In-Jin Chi, and Ayala (like MAB).
I gotta give the edge to Morales, on secondary-level wins.
Unfortunately, Morales lost 4 of his last 5. Let's look at that. Two he lost to Pac, who Barrera could never beat, one was a VERY close fight to Barrera, and the other two were in at 135, where we have never seen Barrera fight.
I love MAB, and my first instinct was that he had the better overall career, but as I broke it down, I have to give the overall career advantage to Morales. In the twighlight of their careers, MAB was the superior fighter. There are any number of reasons why that is. Morales weight issues couldn't have helped him much in that regard, but If I were making an all-time P4P, I would have to put Morales a notch or two ahead.
Sean, good breakdown. But...on MAB's resume why don't you mention Juarez. Juarez was one of the biggest punchers and up coming stars when Barrera fought him. Marco was no youngster when he warred out a win in the first fight and schooled him in the second. Many people don't give him enough credit for those fights. Not to mention Barrera had the cajones to fight Marquez towards the end of his career...a fight that was extremely close. Morales, as well as many others, ducked Marquez for years. As far as the MAB vs. Morales trilogy...i had it 2 wins to 1 for Marco. Both of them are great fighters...but Marco's intelligence and longevity make him the better of the two.
I guess if you give him credit for Juarez it matters some, but I don't really rate Juarez all that highly. That he needed to war out a win with Juarez in the first fight shows me great heart, but it doesn't show me much else. He should have schooled him in the first fight. As for fighting JMM late in his career, lets not forget that JMM is pretty damn late in his career, too, and although it was a close fight, I felt JMM won pretty clearly (not easily, but clearly).
I will forever love MAB for his professionalism, his ability to reinvent himself, and for kicking the a** of Naseem Hamed. I have rooted for MAB consistantly, even against Morales. I wish I could give the edge, but I have to give Morales credit for his greater number of wins against B+ and A- fighters, and for beating Pac, even just the once, which to me is an even greater win than Barrera beating Naz.
Well...a difference in opinion i guess. Say what you want about Juarez now...but he was a younger, stronger fighter than MAB when they fought. And don't forget, before the first Juarez fight Barrera was preparing to go up to 135 to fight Chavez. When that fight fell through...he all of a sudden had to adjust to fight another fighter...hence his sub par showing in the first fight (not to mention Juarez is a strong and skilled puncher). In the second fight...Marco showed his true self and out classed his younger foe. As for JMM...sure...he ain't a young buck....but he is still one of the pound 4 pound best fighters in the game...a fighter almost that almost all the big names (with the exception of Pac and Marco) have ducked. I personally thought that Barrera should have one that fight...but at the very least it was damn close.
Juarez was younger, stronger, less skilled, and one dimensional. You do give a pretty good reason why he struggled in the first fight, still, we have no basis to know how Barrera would have faired at 135. I suspect he would have done so well. We can agree to disagree on the JMM fight, but I give him props for taking the fight.
You make some good pro-MAB points, but you don't talk about Morales beating Hernandez and Junior Jones, who are far, far better fighters than say, Rocky Juarez, Peden, or Tapia in 2002. Wayne McCullough was still a damn good fighter in 1999, when Morales beat him.
Too bad Morales never fought Naz...that would have been fun. I think we can agree on that.
I by no means am trying to disparage Eric or his resume. He is one of my all time favorite fighters and his record speaks for itself. I just think if you look at his and Barrera's careers...from beginning to end...Marco comes out ahead. Plus, you have to take into account their trilogy. When they fought each other...they where both at the top or near the top of their game. Marco won 2 out of three times against Morales...a Morales who at that time was among the very best fighters in the sport. That also has to be taken into consideration when evaluating their respective careers. Marco, despite the recent Pac fight, finished his career on a stronger note. He hasn't been completely outclassed by anyone in recent years (except for Pac). Morales, because of the nature of his fighting style, has struggled mightily in recent years (and he is younger than MAB). The Morales of old would have cleaned the floor with a guy like Diaz. They are both legends in my eye. I just rate Barrera slightly ahead.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
regarding JJ - let's be honest he was long shot when Morales got to him.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
CC SeanE,excellent points all around. Morales fought and beat:
Chi,Jesus Chavez,Carlos Hernandez,Daniel Zaragoza,Wayne McCollough,MAB,Guty Espades,Paulie Ayala(before MAB), and the Pacman. That is sensational. MAB's resume does not compare: Naz,EM,Ayala,Juarez(who is a very poor fighter and should not have got his shot in the first place),Tapia,Peden? I know who's looks better.
And as for the head to head,all three fights were close and that would be basing them on their fights. JT beat B Hop twice in close fights,doesn't mean he had the greater legacy.Morales had by far the better resume,no question.
And the best win on either resume is the win over Manny,in my opinion. Sure,MAB was around longer,reinvented himself and whilst he is to be congratulated for that is a great achievement,he still did not beat as many good fighters as Morales. Morales also went a weight class higher and proved himself(shot and all) there against Diaz in a fight he should have got the W.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Barrera's best wins Morales best wins
Rocky Juarez Daniel Zaragoza
Erik Morales Junior Jones
Kevin Kelley Wayne McCullough
Paulie Ayala Marco Antonio Barrera
Johnny Tapia Kevin Kelley
Naseem Hamed Guty Espadas Jr
Jesus Salud In-Jin Chi
Kennedy McKinney Paulie Ayala
Jesus Chavez
Held World Titles At. Carlos Hernandez
Manny Pacquiao
Super Bantamweight
Featherweight Held World Titles At.
Super Featherweight
Super Bantamweight
Featherweight
Superfeatherweight
Im Barrera fan but i have to admit Morales had the better resume.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Damn! SeanE & Zhubin you guys are grindin this shat out properly!
My opinion is is swaying with each post ;D
CC to the both of ya
Id have to say that Morales was probably the better fighter earlier in their careers but as we got into the mid and later part of this decade MAB remiained the more consumate of the two and looked as if he would finish with the better legacy. Morales started to look horrible.
Howver when it comes to the crunch, its still very debatable.
The Pac win does a hell of a lot for Morales but lets not forget the whole Reyes/ Winning gloves issue (remember that?)
Also, I dont think Morales' ventures up at Lightweight do much as lets bee honest apart from Juan Diaz, Lightweight is kinda 2nd rate in comparrison.
Finally i think that had Morlales fought Juan Marquez, he would of lost miserabley. That counts as something.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Oh and speaking of Manny Marquez. I think it is quite possible that by the time his carrer is done, he'll have an equally if not more succesfull career as these two legends.
A convincing win over a prime Pacquiao would be a good start (and i for one, think that wont be a problem) ;)
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
for me jmm already has a W against pac and as long as the good version of jmm shows up he'll do it again. :)
edited to add & I think it shows the respect the 3 mexicans had for each others ability that they held off from fighting each other until later in their careers. Always fun to speculate when fighters don't meet at their prime.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Barrera no doubt
Morales quit in the 3rd round still in his 20's . Barrera gritted it out for 12 when he was several years past his best
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Entering this fight i was really swingin towards Barrera, i thought that after the original loss to Pac and after the frustration of the loss i thought he'd be well up for it.
I believed that these factors were going to inspire Marco and drive him on to put on a gritty and aggresive performance. However, having watched the fight i had to feel disappointed, not that he lost, but the nature of the loss. The tenacity i had expected was absent, he boxed well no doubt, but he never applied himself sufficiently or tried to dominate Pacquiao in any way. It is this factor I feel, cost him the JMM fight also.
As a result i feel it is time to say goodbye to Marco, its his time to retire.
I'd just like to add; I feel it's a testament to Marco as a fighter that when he got old, tired and nearly shot that he could go the distance against to fighters who are among today's p4p elite and would be among the elite of any era.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
Barrera no doubt
Morales quit in the 3rd round still in his 20's . Barrera gritted it out for 12 when he was several years past his best
Morales didn't quit, he just couldn't get up when pac put him down for the last time. There are times when a fighter is dropped, he may look aware and fine but his legs are heavy and are tightening and the brain sustain to much vibration from volume of punches it at times lock downs muscles. it happens more so with the lower half of a fighter, another good example would be jaca, when jmm knock him out he was alert and look fined but couldn't make no effort to get up. Just like how eric couldn't make any effort to get up anymore, If you see when he finally got up after the tenth and the fight is over, the ref had to catch eric from falling again. Morales, i know would never quit if he still had more to give, he just couldn't and he knew it thats why he signal no I can't towards his father.
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Re: MAB vs Morales: who deserves more praise?
^
The above is true.
See Julius i couldn last very long without agreein with somethin you said >:mad
